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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Czes said:
We should wait and see how much political backlash or support the coming Rhunkalbrogg creates for Snorri. He made a lot of revolutionary, if questionable, choices and his standing will be greatly affected, depending on how Thungni (should he be attending) or the Runelords in general react to the prosthetics, his involvement in Karak Dum and the Chainforger.

Should the overall reaction be negative, I would advise to hold back on the Alchemy research and focus on gaining political clout with more southern Rulers, starting with the Kadrin commission.

We can't possibly pretend to be completely politically neutral after this meeting and just continue on as we have. So, Imho, planning our actions, while helpful to gain an overview, doesn't really seem that constructive considering the political changes after this Rhunkalbrogg and the coming war.
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I'm not sure why we need to worry about Karak Dum reaction? Like, yes, it was a fucked up shitty situation, yes. It was awful and terrible, and had Chaos Dwarves. Which is shitty. But our role was the Azrilgromthi A Vengryn, the Silver Ancestor of Vengeance, so. What we did was Kill Chaos in Large Amounts. And kill Beastmen in large amounts. And generally just commit violence against Shit Dawi Really Hate.

The prosthetics are a worry, and the Chainforger, yes, but not Karak Dum IMO, that's a "Good job you fucked up a LOT of Chaos Boyz."

Absent, like, doubting our word.

But we are a Runelord. Not some smith.
 
Dark as Silver said:
No idea why you're @ing me in this. All of that is totally irrelevant to the Light discussion.

If we're picking up a commission I think it ought to be Gromriklad, multiple different dwarves have observed how weird it is we made equipment for the other cult but haven't yet for the Grungni cult for whom it would be the biggest deal.
Kinda afraid that it would be seen as favouritism or a dislike of that group if we don't do it.
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Ehh, the first part was relevant...ish. Why we need to do light research, for the oath and Orra's eyes.

Anything after the Edit is not directed at you. More of a continuation of why we should take the axe commission.

As for the Gromrilklad commission, for me that's a hard No. Another massive commission making armor would be uninteresting for me to read about.
We made the chainforger and are publishing the design. And we told the Cult about the chainforger, so to avoid it looking like a snub. We revealed our plans to them because Snorri knows how important gromril chain is to the Cult of Grungni.
Every Runelord that has an interest in Gromril chain (and there are loads of them) will probably be making one for themselves, or their holds.
 
ArchAIngel said:
I'm not sure why we need to worry about Karak Dum reaction? Like, yes, it was a fucked up shitty situation, yes. It was awful and terrible, and had Chaos Dwarves. Which is shitty. But our role was the Azrilgromthi A Vengryn, the Silver Ancestor of Vengeance, so. What we did was Kill Chaos in Large Amounts. And kill Beastmen in large amounts. And generally just commit violence against Shit Dawi Really Hate.

The prosthetics are a worry, and the Chainforger, yes, but not Karak Dum IMO, that's a "Good job you fucked up a LOT of Chaos Boyz."

Absent, like, doubting our word.

But we are a Runelord. Not some smith.
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Ah sorry, I didn't mean our actions at Karak Dum, but rather our decision to immediately help the survivors. It was of course the morally right thing to do from an ethical point of view, but it also firmly put Snorri's support behind the survivors of that atrocity. Don't get me wrong, I certainly would decide to do the same, but the Runelords are going to discuss the amount of wrongs commited by the survivors and their worthiness to continue the craft.

I don't think that it will end with serious repercussions for Snorri or Clan Metalhand, but the attending Runelords do have a point to be worried, since there were accounts of Runes being desecrated and used in conjunction with Chaos.
 
Czes said:
But the Runelords are going to discuss the amount of wrongs commited by the survivors and their worthiness to continue the craft.
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Gazul has cleared the survivors of all wrongdoings from the affair.
The strictures of the Cult of Thungni have been enforced:
  1. Never reveal the secrets of magic runecraft to any other than a fellow runesmith or one's own carefully chosen apprentice.
  2. Never allow a rune-weapon to fall into the hands of any Dwarf enemy, even if it must be lost or destroyed.
  3. Always investigate any rumour of lost rune-weapons and recover them if possible.
  4. Never allow any non-Dwarf who has somehow acquired some knowledge of runic magic to pass on their knowledge.
  5. Never allow one's reputation to be sullied by poor craftsmanship.
1,2 and 4 are relevant to Karag Dum.
None of the survivors taught Runecraft to the Frurndar: Clan Metalheart is in fact down to 1 runelord. We also have confirmation that none of the ordained runesmiths of Clan Metalheart fell.
Valka said that the ancestral weapons were destroyed at Grungni's temple to desecrate it. That probably included the rune weapons.
Point 4: It's quite likely that none of the Frurndar of Karag dum survived that purge.

I wouldn't call the questioning at the Rhunkalbrogg a formality, but i think the purpose will be more to explain what happened, and to judge for how well the Strictures were followed than anything else.
Forbidding the victims that remained faithful to the Ancestors despite all the hardship from continuing the craft, I.e. denying them the gifts of the Ancestors would be both needlessly cruel and stupid.

Besides, the house of Runelords wouldn't interfere with runesmiths choosing apprentices, and blacklisting a clan with the Gift is exactly that.
 
I know where you are coming from with your Gazul argument, but I don't think that it's going to be that easy.
"Aye, there'll be quite a few questions for me specifically. Clan Metalheart's been deemed clean, but the mark, even for our Clan, is a particularly damning one for those in the know."

Right.

Because Clan Metalheart in its entirety was stuck in Karag Dum for the better part of a few, relative, centuries there would be suspicion. While Gazul had cleared the survivors of any guilt, the fact remains.

Somehow the Frurndar had gotten enough that they were tinkering with Runelore, as attested to by that damn gate and a myriad of other foul works long since destroyed with the rest of that blighted place. There would be some, especially in the more southerly Runesmith Clans, that would be rather aggressive in questioning as to how the enemy had gotten that knowledge and it didn't take a particularly sharp lad to put two and two together.

There were no oathbreakers living in Clan Metalheart, but even if that knowledge had been lost unintentionally or, more likely, from the edge of a torturer's blade, the shame of such a thing would make relations...well difficult is putting it mildly.
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I'm sure that it will work out for us and Clan Metalheart, but just saying that Gazul cleaned them of all suspicion and calling it a day seems a bit negligent.
 
Czes said:
I'm sure that it will work out for us and Clan Metalheart, but just saying that Gazul cleaned them of all suspicion and calling it a day seems a bit negligent.
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IIRC Gazul and Valaya are the ancestor gods who wrote the dwarven code of law. I am not sure how 'being found not guilty by the Ancestor God of Justice as well as the one who takes care of more internal threats" is neglient.

I am after a literal god of your people has found someone not guilty, what further measures can you even take? Have regular dwarves investigate and check their own Gods work? Convene a meeting of the Gods so that other Gods, who are much less in tune with the skills necessary to handle the situation, fact check Gazul? Except for Valaya and maybe, maybe Grungni who is as perceptive as Gazul is?
 
soulcake said:
The works on display vary, as is the nature of young engineers looking to make their mark on the world, but a common theme runs throughout. Each and every design before you is, from what you understand, a lifting machine of sorts. Miniature renditions of creations that are meant to raise or lower exceedingly heavy weights. You don't see a point in it, your folk have done well enough with solid Dwarf muscle and the tried and true cranes designed under Morgrim's grim stare but from what you can parse through your eavesdropping these are different somehow. The words "open-air," "lateral," and some fandangled pulley design that has many of the youngsters in the crowd riled up into a tizzy.

Bah!
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a little bit of profesional cockiness isnt? imagine a engineer saying the same of the runes.

One simply worldbulding question for pure curiosity: exactly what derivate the use of rune by dwarft than chaos ones exactly?.

[X][Explore]: The Markets.
[X[Explore]: The Temples.
 
As for actions?

I would be 100% doing a 3 action research and a two action on the axe commission. Not for nothing but the Axe of Dargo is kinda crap compared to what we can make with relative ease. Soooooo, make something good if not outright AMAZING and it'll be fine.

AS for the Dum debacle, we should point out a few things assuming the august Dawi did notalready account for it. First the Sorceror apostle who did this could have easily gotten his lore from what assassianted runesmiths that served at what is now the site o his god's fall. We know they killed them all but not how quickly and what they gained. The other is... well I'd not put it beyond Chaos to have a spell to rip memories or thoughts out of someone's head, regardless of their desire or not. and while it might not work on a full runesmith... you can still take a great deal from a beardling apprentice.
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Not for nothing but the Axe of Dargo is kinda crap compared to what we can make with relative ease.
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Two things:
1) Axe of Dargo is actually forged from the shards of the previous broken axe. Since we haven't heard mention of anything like that, we're probably making the axe that will be broken.
Article:
  • Axe of Dargo - This runic weapon of monstrous size was made of the shards of King Baragor's broken axe, tempered with Dragon's blood and iron-oaths of vengeance.[1c]​[5f]​

I think we underestimate this fairly often as its only got two runes(?) in the tabletop mechanics, but thats more of a sign that it doesn't map well onto the system rather than it being a unimpressive item in the lore.
2) Not really, I'm pretty sure Dargo was given as the example of a T4 item and comparable to Trollslayer, improving that will take effort and will not be a massive tier jump.
soulcake said:
As for the Trollslayer itself you've made a T4 weapon of great prestige and power. Something on par with the Axe of Dargo
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CuriousRaptor said:
Snip
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No point in dedicating two actions to it during a single turn that'll still only handle the planning section you'll still need to dedicate actions to production so just dedicate one action one turn and one turn the next although if we're doing it that way we might as well knock out the pickaxe commission at the same time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you here and you want to dedicate two actions to the project to try and boost its quality but if that's the case I don't really see the point as we should be able to make a legendary with just the two actions and in order to go higher than that we'll need to dedicate a lot more effort than you're talking about here.
 
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IronFist said:
Forbidding the victims that remained faithful to the Ancestors despite all the hardship from continuing the craft, I.e. denying them the gifts of the Ancestors would be both needlessly cruel and stupid.
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I think whoever suggested it would be met with full force of Thungni's disapproving gaze tbh.

This is one of the "Uncharted territory" areas for the dwarfs, and since it has no precedent, they would likely look for their Ancestors for advice. I suspect there will be lot of shouting until cooler heads prevail and Thungni makes his opinion known.
 
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Honestly, I think the Rhunkalbrogg, at least for the Karag Dum part, will be more about spreading full awareness of what the Frundar are and prepare the Runelords to keep an eye out for their shenanigans. After all, I'm pretty sure that all the rest of the Runelords know about Dum is the broadstrokes view of it. Not how the Frundar wormed their way into Dum society and other stuff like that. Sure there will be grumbling about the Frundar managing to get a smidgeon of runic knowledge to try to ape it (they are dwarfs after all), but that'll be all. None of the dwarves will gainsay what Gazul stated anyways.
 
That's fair. I suppose that "negligence" was the wrong word. I just remembered Snorri's conversation regarding the topic and thought that the individual Runelords and Holds might have more of an opinion/say towards this specific topic.

Naturally, I would be happy, should the Karak Dum discussion be contained towards prevention and preemptive measures. Thungni's attendance would end the topic without any further discussions, so I hope, that the myriad of things (Karak-Dum, Chainforger, Prosthetics) will sway his roll somewhat.
 
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From Rhunkalbrogg 1,part 4:
[X] Plan Consistent Wisdom
-[X] Looking to the future: a lot of elders are dead and it will take a long time for their children to grow into their beards and plaits, and so any Runelord who comes here must be willing and able to give guidance to many dwarfs and have particular skill in teaching.
-[X] Being adaptable: the north is wild and unpredictable and Runelords who come up this far must be willing to set precedent.
-[X] Any Runelords should be willing to collaborate and elevate the works of other guilds with Runeworks. A bit obvious, but Kraka Drakk and the North as a whole only stands because we stood together, every Guild and every Dwarf spitting in the eye of evil and fighting for a better tomorrow.
-[X] Proactive; goes out of their way to make the world better for dwarfs
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Damn if we didn't live up to our words:
-2 new apprentices ook their journeys
-teaching masters to make prosthetics
-the chainforger
-collaboration with the cults
-arranged for the constitution of a new hold on a decade

:cool2:

Soon, all Runelords will try to be Klausson muahaha!
 
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Half the winning vote is missing from Turn 32 (Apparently we decided to go Full Radical?) and the three Runelords we voted to interact with more are missing from Grand Conclave of Karaz a Karak Pt. 5 Finale.

Yorri's Request on turn 32 is gone.
 
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IronFist said:
Well kind of.
The light tree has some interesting stuff in it, but compared to Alchemy it fades into the background.
The primary thing it has going for it is the eyes, and nothing gets a dwarf moving like an oath.
I want to do research too, but i don't think we should let another royal commission slip. We don't even have to go plus ultra. We are older, more have more runes, more materials, more skill, better gear, and adamant on tap.
We don't need to put all our actions in this single task to make an equal to Trollslayer.

And if we do, i'm pretty sure we won't regret it. Whenever we went all out on items, the result always seems to shut down the complaints.
Speaking for myself, i was against putting the master rune of awakening on the iron arm, but in the end, seeing Orra punch through two feet of steel effortlessly was worth it.

Also, iirc, soulcake said that once we had the knowledge to make it, Orra's eye wouldn't need an action unless we decide to put runes on it, it would go through our regular production.
I'm ok with that. Orra does not need to wait 20 years for a custom eye that shoots lasers. She'll be perfectly happy just having both eyes again.

Edit: also, comparing the two Royal commissions is like comparing apples and oranges.
The Eye is important to Snorri, personally. Both because he is compassionate and because he swore an oath to do it. In terms of prestige, it will be another notch on the "things I did first" post. A big increase now, but eventually it will fade: when Orra dies, her prosthetics will either be buried with her, or set aside for a time when they are needed again. (not sure which, tbh). Either way, in time, they will fade out of history.

On the other hand, the Axe is less personally important to Snorri. The motivation behind him getting the Commission is political, which he doesn't personally value. But he is now on the elder council.
Taking a Commission like this to smooth out an Issue for his Clan, despite normally not getting involved in politics, is exactly something he'd do: The King gets a nice axe he'll be happy with, the other elders of clan Winterhearth get their satisfaction, and he gets to make something really awesome. Everyone wins, case closed. Forever.
In terms of Prestige, it's less of an immediate gain. Any Runelord his age can whip up an Axe worthy of a king, so in terms of uniqueness, it's not saying much. The only distinguishing feature is that the Axe he makes will be made of Adamant, which is only available to the subset of Runelords from the Brotherhood of Dron. But in the Long run, the Prestige he will gain will be greater. Every great deed the kings of Kadrin do with the Axe he made will be partially credited to him. It's something visible, that will stay visible as long as the clan rules Karak Kadrin.

To Dwarfs as wealthy as Snorri, Prestige among their peers is the only currency that matters.
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I have some issues with this line of thinking you seem to be minimizing the light tree but it not just about curing blindness it could lead to lasers as you said or being able to see the wind of magic through runic eyes or other things I am forgetting
it also curing blindness! Which I feel like we are kind of minimizing, being like we cured blindness no big deal that, just another major achievement to add to the pile, that HUGE! and every single dwarf who has their blindness cured because of this will have us to thank for it, so it will not past into history I think
also to be honest completely a axe for prestige, we are overflowing in prestige we just made something that before only the ancestors has ever done, a axe for one major hold king is nothing to that even compounded over time,
also snorri to me has never been about the prestige to him, it just been about expanding his craft or helping fellows dwarfs and that one huge reason I want to do it cause we be helping un countable dwarfs with curing blindness
 
On the subject of Runes for the eye, I have some ideas. Setting aside a Rune for the solution to the problem (Rune of Sight/Master Rune of Seeing).
Rune of Sight, Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Stacking - Wind Scowl - Let the bearer see the Wind magic so they can give it a proper glare. What is the eye, if not a container for light?
Rune of Sight, Rune of Brotherhood, Rune of Smednir/Rune of Morgrim - Dronit Baragdrin (?) Dok - Witness the actions of another and duplicate their feat with precision and skill.
 
Hm, couldn't we design a pair of goggles for Snorri to use to see the winds with and the like? It might make a useful addition to Snorri's crafting setup in the future if we can.
 
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