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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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only 25% of dwarves are female so if they're having a 100% marriage rate that still leaves half of dwarves out in the cold.
I assume homosexuality is a lot more common in dwarves than humans?.?.?.?
Wasn't it that a third of the population is female? I mean, in the Warhammer texts I have read I've seen it as women making up 1/3rd of the dwarf race and even extreme as 1/10th. The 10% number is completely stupid and flat out impossible, simply due to how slowly dwarfs reproduce. I know soulcake mentioned that 25% of the Dwarf population is female, but he also said that the average woman has 4 children. 25% of the population having 4 children on average means that the population would decline rather than expand, due to fatalities from war and age. It certainly wouldn't result in an expanding population, as depicted in story.

Honestly I would think that asexuality is much, much more common among dwarfs. A lot of them probably get engrossed in their craft. Yorri doesn't seem to have been married (though it is hard to tell given Yorri), and the Runesmiths are somewhat pressured to get married more than other dwarfs. Also, I wouldn't think it is traditional. Dwarfs aren't human and they never will be.
 
Well first of all that was me, so you have the wrong guy. Second of all, i did not really say that there can't be same gender couples. I just said that there is most likely a fuckton of married x-tuples, as evidenced by Valaya herself.

As for the deetz, i don't have the books, you will have to find someone else to provide them. But futile search of the net seems to just, not have any, outside of the ancestor gods themselves. Most likely on account of GW being asshats and not having a single Dwarf Woman character worth of note.
Both of you did, but I objected to jjffjhjf's phrasing not yours so I resonded to that one.
Wasn't it that a third of the population is female? I mean, in the Warhammer texts I have read I've seen it as women making up 1/3rd of the dwarf race and even extreme as 1/10th. The 10% number is completely stupid and flat out impossible, simply due to how slowly dwarfs reproduce. I know soulcake mentioned that 25% of the Dwarf population is female, but he also said that the average woman has 4 children. 25% of the population having 4 children on average means that the population would decline rather than expand, due to fatalities from war and age. It certainly wouldn't result in an expanding population, as depicted in story.

Honestly I would think that asexuality is much, much more common among dwarfs. A lot of them probably get engrossed in their craft. Yorri doesn't seem to have been married (though it is hard to tell given Yorri), and the Runesmiths are somewhat pressured to get married more than other dwarfs. Also, I wouldn't think it is traditional. Dwarfs aren't human and they never will be.
I think the confusion has probably come around from the ratio of 1 Gal Dwarf : 3 Guy Dwarves. This is 25%, it is canon and you are correct, it is stupid, but its GW stupid so we're stuck with it unless there is an explicit overwriting in the fanon.
Asexuality is a good point.
 
I think the confusion has probably come around from the ratio of 1 Gal Dwarf : 3 Guy Dwarves. This is 25%, it is canon and you are correct, it is stupid, but its GW stupid so we're stuck with it unless there is an explicit overwriting in the fanon.
Asexuality is a good point.
Hmm, I don't think that's where I got it. I've tried searching for where I read it, and it seems to have been fanon. About the only mention is from 1d4chan: "lore from older editions states that one in every ten Dwarfs is female with late lore saying one in three." I guess torroar's A Dynasty of Dynastic Alchohalism also influenced it, a connection was made between one in three dwarfs being women and the gender ratio of Valaya Grungni and Grimnir, the eldest of the Ancestor Gods.
 
You could have a culture of widows remarrying be something expected as well if you want to to make the population statistics make more sense
 
You could have a culture of widows remarrying be something expected as well if you want to to make the population statistics make more sense
The issue isn't the lack of men. Indeed, by the time of modern warhammer, widows basically aren't given a month to be actual widows before they're remarried to one of her brothers in law. Well, that's an exaggeration, but it gets the point across. Dwarfs, in canon, tend to live around 300 years, I think (?). Women tend to live a tad longer, so we'll go with 350. Assume that we go by 1 out of every 4 dwarfs are women. To break even each dwarf woman would need to have a child every eighty years. And that is assuming they get married right when they turn thirty, which is considered adulthood. Dwarf men, at least, tend to marry around 70. It also assumes that dwarf women have children right up and until they die, which I doubt.

Basically the average amount of children would have to be higher, or there would just have to be more women to have 4 children for it to really, well, work.

Edit: Keep in mind I'm basing the average of 4 children thing off of this, and these are the Good Ol' Times. When the average dwarfs could expect to live until 600 and have much more time to have children. Keep in mind that ratio doesn't actually allow for population growth.

Edit 2: Basically, if you're writing some fiction and are altering the gender ratio of some race to be different than 50/50, other things are going to have to change to keep the type of growth. If there are going to be less women than men, need each individual woman will need have more children. If there are more women than men, individual women can have less children.
 
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Not unless male dwarves have a significantly shorter life expectancy.
Its up to 50 years, if wiki can be trusted (so take it like, with about a sea of salt), so they can live about one fifth longer. In modern times anyway, here it would be different. The main issue with what the guy you quoted said is not that, its that Dwarfs are not fighting for bare survival just yet. While the age of chaos invasion was hard on them, i think it was Time of Woes that would have led to the aforementioned situation of widows having to remarry, which is just not a thing now.
 
Looks at all the population and marriage discourse.

Ask Boney.

But more seriously, I again draw from a variety of sources, lorebooks and other QMs included. Dwarf marriage practices are both very uniform and very different. While the ceremony itself, the weighing of the bride and the courting are pretty universal how the marriage plays out differs on a Clan to Clan basis.

Regarding the practice of polygamous or monogamous marriage:
(A lot from Boney here) Warrior Clans are the most common Clans to do the polygamous marriage, and usually, the husbands are all brothers or very close cousins married to the same woman. (My Canon) The implication being that having multiple husbands ensured a Dwarf widow wasn't wasted (These are not my views) if her husband died. The tradition itself started with Zorn because they had to deal with the aforementioned population issues yall are discussing, paired with a very hostile environment and it's not hard to see how such a mindset that arose. As the Ancestors start reinventing Dwarf society the need for such practices falls off and the farther north you go (barring the Warrior Clans usually) the more monogamous marriages start to occur as population growth and lower Dwarf mortality no longer warrant having so many backup husbands so to speak.

Whether the married couple joins the Wifes Clan (Old Lore) or whether they join the Husbands:
(Quest Canon) It depends on the dynamics of the Clans involved. If standing is equal and these are the average Clan, then it's usually the couple's choice though tradition does favour entering the Wife's Clan. It can be a point of discussion in the negotiations and having the woman join the Husbands Clan does increase the bride price paid (Yes there is a setting for that on the scales). In instances where there's a power imbalance they usually end up with the more prestigious Clan. For Noble Clans the same holds true though determining power between them is a bit more complex. Runesmith Clans are, once again, weird. If you don't have The Gift, all the above I just mentioned applies, though a Runesmith Clan is almost always stronger if in negotiations with any Clan that isn't another Runesmith Clan. If you have The Gift, the Clan bends its considerable resources to keep you and your new spouse in the Clan, because you've proven your blood runs especially true. Marrying someone who isn't part of another Runesmith Clan when you have The Gift is also more difficult, but depends on the stance of the Clan's Elders frankly. Dolgi had to do a lot to get the Clan to greenlight letting him pursue Klorah(Something he's proven to be a worthwhile investment and a point of pride among his family and source of joy for his Clan).

On the power of Women in all this:
They hold the veto. The ultimate and sacrosanct veto in all of this, something Valaya didn't even have to force through, though her efforts have made it even more powerful both officially and socially. If they say no, there's very little that can be done officially. Dwarfs don't really do physical abuse, for women especially, because hurting your kin in such a manner is taboo, but there's a lot of peer pressure and doing your duty mindset. Clans negotiating marriage do their best to give the woman the most choice possible if for no other reason than to see the marriage through, so there's a lot of "Please pick someone among this list, or heck, even anyone in the Clan if you so choose!" Noble Clans tend to be more restrictive, but the power the woman holds is the same even if she may excise it less given the sheer effects and implications a noble marriage, a Dwarf Noble Marriage even, has in terms for her Clan and Hold.

On Courting:
(Basically, it's Boney's take) More accepted for men to pursue women. A woman showing interest "weakens" the negotiating position of her Clan so the reaction runs the gamut from frowned upon to acceptable. Relations outside of marriage, as in *gasp* premarital sex *gasp* tend to pull the old "get married quick, especially if she gets pregnant." I am not equipped to deal with the nuance here beyond this point. Please don't ask me because I'm afraid of getting a foot in my mouth.

On Remarrying:
It can happen. Though note that it depends on the Dwarf in question like anything really. When Dwarf's commit, they commit hard 99% of the time, and when it involves love many many times moreso. Snorri Remarrying isn't out of question frankly, heck some in his clan may even very privately, hope for it, but no one's gonna begrudge him if he doesn't.

BIG ASTERISK FOR THE BELOW. I AM NOWHERE NEAR GOOD ENOUGH TO GIVE A NUANCED AND INFORMED OPINION FOR THIS QUEST ON THE BELOW TOPICS BEYOND WHAT I HAVE PUT DOWN. PLEASE FIND SOMEONE WHOSE BETTER SUITED TO THIS THAN ME. IF I BUNGLED SOME WORDING OR SOMETHING THERE IS TRIGGERING PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN MAKE SURE WHAT I WROTE COMES ACROSS PROPERLY.

On Gay Dwarfs:
That last line from the Courting Discussion but x10 frankly. I am not prepared for this, but I've given some very minor thoughts on it. Just assume there's a lot of "Do your duty" for women and Dwarf men being very good friends. I am in no way the person to ask about this, I don't have the tact or nuance for it I think. So please don't ask beyond this point.

On Gender Dynamics:
There's obviously a lot of unmarried Dwarf dudes out there, but culturally it's not seen as a be-all-end-all of your existence. A male dwarf could live and die a virgin and no one would bat an eye, the dwarf in question included. I won't say Dwarfs are less sexual than humans ( I mean look at Klorah), but there's a lot of cultural stuff that supplants its importance so to speak for Dwarfs like wealth, skill and age being the most obvious yeah? Marriage is seen as a great accomplishment standing wise cuz it shows you're wealthy and skilled enough to have attracted the attention of a woman. Are there grudges over things like romance? I can't say, though I imagine it's a point in many a romance novel.

Dwarf Women have the same career paths available to them that men do 99 percent of the time, though again, big cultural pressure to get hitched and have kids cuz of the obvious. Though a woman who doesn't have kids isn't seen as a waste (besides the uber conservatives in Zorn maybe) especially if she's very talented at what she does. Remember, Dwarf stubbornness is not limited to men.

Dwarfs ultimately care more about age, skill and wealth than they do gender. Which is reflected in their language as well. Khazalid doesn't have masculine or feminine forms for words, the only time biological sex gets involved is if it's a role largely "defined" by their gender, such as being a noble lady/queen, or notable because of it like the Valkyrie Guard. Sexism exists in some capacity, like from the very fact that women are rarer and their role in the species there's almost definitely gonna be something there you can take umbrage with, though how it manifests for Dwarfs may be very familiar or very different, I don't know so please don't force me to answer.

This blew up, Idk if I should make it a threadmark tbh.
 
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Perhaps my favorite bit about dwarf marriage is a torroar quest canon about looping the beard around the bride. That one was fun.
 
To be honest I just assumed he wasn't going to marry again because he had that whole "Badass who lost his soul mate" type of vibe going on.
 
Say GM i remember some time ago something about some dwarfs seeking to make new Krakas, did some of them make any new ones in the North?
 
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