Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If this assassination was unprovoked Sabrina would also have qualms about it.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Laniakea
And from what I can tell, she does - probably why she was still mentioning wanting to talk with them first. Their reputation may be horrible, but then there is still a slim-but-existing chance that their evil reputation has actually been doctored (for example, if Kyubey had something against them and wanted them gone and so went spreading it around that they were all unrepentant killers).
Unfortunately given their apparent level of threat, talk-first could also be a dangerous thing to do. Just having that talk might necessitate kidnapping them all to conduct those talks in safety.
Ordinarily, this would be a slippery slope to tread because if it became known that we frequently do this sort of thing, we might end up looking as bad as Iowa ("shock-and-awe" anyone?) but thankfully Iowa having such a bad reputation would lower the repercussions of such. And if it turned out they're not all that bad and were really being persecuted, we can recruit them for our army.
If not... well, I think we might need to revisit Niko on the Freezer idea until we can establish a proper system to deal with all these serial killers.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
Im actually worried about this
No matter how bad they are, shoot first ask questions later is honestly a horrible thing, and your joke about how we're using iowas ow tactics is, frankly a bit on thre nose in terms of why I have issues with the idea of a preemptive strike
- Location
- Illinois
BAD Firn! REDUCE salt, do not INCREASE salt!
... God bless this author.
FINALLY SOMETHING I WAS RIGHT ABOUT
[] ... You don't know Madoka as well as you'd like. You'll do it their way, not least because they're the people who are going to be bodyguarding her and Hitomi if this somehow drags out.
Meanwhile though, this also just...
Gaaaaaah I don't have time to write votes in the morning!
- Location
- Laniakea
Yes, it is definitely morally slippery. And we should probably remind Mami and Sayaka about that in our response.
I'm actually a bit surprised at how OK they all were with it in this update (well not Homura, her enthusiasm is perfectly expected). I suspect this may be the result of Mami's dependence and her being afraid to counter our proposals and as for Sayaka-- actually, now I think about it I can see Sayaka just taking Iowa's rep and our description of them at face value and assuming they must definitely be evil. So maybe that's not so out-of-character for her.
But despite the jokes, a pre-emptive attack before we even know whether they really intend to come at us won't be morally white, it would be morally grey at best.
The problem (and the reason it's not morally black as well as why I'm not completely against the idea) is: their information source.
If their reputation for decapitation strikes is true and they have enough info to work with, they could feasibly come up with one that works. It's nothing to worry about if their source is just a far-seeing clairvoyant like Sayaka thinks it is (like Matsuri Hinata from Suzune Magica). We're in trouble if it turns out to be something more exotic, like a mind-reader or a post-cog or, god forbid, Kyubey himself. Depending on what/how powerful their information source is, they might be able to drop the Potentialbomb on Homura before we're ready to deal with it or Witchbomb Mami. Basically, they could be another nightmare headache like Oriko. Now that Oriko herself no longer seems to be a primary antagonist, it's plenty possible Firn came up with somebody else to fill the same role.
If this is the case, the very act of approaching them to talk could backfire badly and if they plan to attack, depending on how much information they can pump from their source, the longer we leave them, the messier dealing with the whole thing could become.
Our cleanest option really is just to conduct a mass kidnapping.
In fact, if we do it right, it's possible to make it extremely clean, to the point the victims themselves never notice.
Men-in-Black style.
Grab all their Soul Gems simultaneously under Timestop, wake them up separately for interrogation one at-a-time with Antimagic restraints on under Timestop. Keep their heads in a Privacy Field so they don't see or hear anything while we X-File their brains and read through each of their memories. Afterward, we can wipe all their memories of the encounter and dump them back where we found them.
All done under Timestop. Zero time will have passed for them. Zero memory of meeting us. For them, the whole kidnapping will never have happened.
It's possible to make it so that nobody but the people carried it out ever knew the operation even happened. No harm, no foul.
It would be really, really morally grey. But possible.
- Location
- Florida
>be me
>going with Sabrina to ask our friends about the Iowa group
>still feels fucking weird actually having a group to talk to
>kinda nice tho
>Sabrina has a question for me
>MRW Sabrina asks me if I shitpost
>OH SHIT
>MY SECOND BIGGEST SECRET
>make up an excuse on the spot
>say that since magical girls don't post here I rarely use 2chan
>SHE FUCKING BELIEVES ME
>AWW YEA BOIIIIS
>SECRET STILL SAFE
>get Sayaka
>looks like she was in the middle of some kinda joke
>is confused, but Sabrina fills her in
>says my power is weird, and calls me "Homs"
>Wat.Wat
>this timeline is fucking blursed
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Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
A very, very dark grey, you might say. A Grey Area aka Meatfucker.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Indeed. Do we really want to be the kind of person who stops serial killers from attacking other people? It's a slippery slope from there to protecting people from other kinds of violence and before you know it you're stepping in to prevent passive-aggression.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
Its not about a slippery slope, it might be a slippery slope but that's not what I'm worried about. I'm worried about it because honestly? Its effectively an international assassination is what it is. A PREMPTIVE assassination. I've seen people talking befire about gemsmashing them or just straight up nuking them. Talk to them, give them a chance to surender and if they don't THEN we can gemsnatch them all. But what we're talking about right now. Going aftwr them under cover of timestop and either killing or kidnapping them all without a single hint of a warning. It isn't right, it just isnt
- Location
- Laniakea
Indeed.
Now personally, I'd also be fine with just stacking up contingency plans and defensive measures to guard against what could - in one of the worst cases - turn out to be a massive joint attack by all three named international groups at once, alongside Kyubey dropping his Timebomb. (No really, I legitimately wouldn't mind reading that fight, it would be epic - us and all our allied groups versus an invading army, seasoned by Kyubey-flavored drama and Homura hysterics)
But there is a reason why I said this:
Oriko is, uh, currently on the fritz. So we could really do with having another information source to help us track down what Kyubey has been doing the whole while, even if it's just a far-seeing clairvoyant (and if their source turns out to be Kyubey, well, guess we know what he was doing).
Thus the idea of, shall we say, appropriating an extra clairvoyant (or their powers) is rather attractive.
And no, it's definitely not morally right to kidnap someone just to copy their powers (even if they never noticed being kidnapped).
But it's tempting.
And the earlier we get hold of the power, the more time we have to make use of the information.
So I also won't complain if we end up launching a pre-emptive strike because, well there's definitely very useful incidental gains to be made beyond simply preventing a possible attack or capturing a bunch of possible serial killers.
- Location
- Laniakea
You won't hear me say I think it is.
I did have a compromise idea which was to try and first make contact with the Iowa group using a disposable Sayaka clone disguised as someone else. Either infiltrate the group to discover the plans or conduct a sting operation pretending to hire them for an assault on Mitakihara.
It's the clairvoyant that's the problem though. Because if they're a mind-reader or post-cog, doing that kind of thing will screw us over.
EDIT: Ugh, double post, meant to edit the last one, feel free for a mod to merge if necessary.
EDIT2: Also, when I say "disguised" clone, I meant done without magic or illusions, because those can be seen through, so we're talking stuff like giving the Sayaka clone a shave, a dye job, maybe some tattoos.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's not preemptive. They've done plenty of empting. Them heading here is why we're focusing on them now instead of after Walpurgisnacht, but if they'd kept doing their thing in India we'd still be coming down on them in about the same way, just later. Intent to do that is why we asked Nadia about them to begin with.
- Location
- Illinois
[X] ... You don't know Madoka as well as you'd like. You'll do it their way as long as circumstances hold, not least because they're the people who are going to be bodyguarding her and Hitomi if this somehow drags out.
[X] Talk alone with Homura before leaving timestop...
-[X] If you were Kyubey, and you were out to murder Sabrina or otherwise ruin everything via e.g. contracting Madoka -- which Kyubey is, because of course it is -- Iowa is exactly the kind of thing you would use to do it if Homura wasn't involved.
--[X] It's exactly the same reason as why you're trying to do fewer things personally. Unlike her, you can't be everywhere at once. Kyubey's tactics against Homura were designed to make people doubt her; if it were you in her place, it probably would have sought to overextend, overburden, and eventually erode away your allies in order to isolate you through the same fear that makes people refuse to take clear seeds even now, and if it could have done that while also pressuring Madoka over it, dangling, say, Iowa in her face...
---[X] Could you have dealt with that without her? You don't have the experience to cleanly say one way or another, and perhaps that's telling, because if there's one thing Kyubey isn't lacking it's experience.
----[X] And yet, that's just... Not a problem. Homura is just *completely* in the way of that being a problem. You can make whatever guarantees you need to make, preemptively smash even a group like Iowa if you have to, and Kyubey can't do a thing about any of it because of her.
-----[X] Really, she just makes SHIELD look like a bunch of wannabes.
[X] Talk alone with Homura before leaving timestop...
-[X] If you were Kyubey, and you were out to murder Sabrina or otherwise ruin everything via e.g. contracting Madoka -- which Kyubey is, because of course it is -- Iowa is exactly the kind of thing you would use to do it if Homura wasn't involved.
--[X] It's exactly the same reason as why you're trying to do fewer things personally. Unlike her, you can't be everywhere at once. Kyubey's tactics against Homura were designed to make people doubt her; if it were you in her place, it probably would have sought to overextend, overburden, and eventually erode away your allies in order to isolate you through the same fear that makes people refuse to take clear seeds even now, and if it could have done that while also pressuring Madoka over it, dangling, say, Iowa in her face...
---[X] Could you have dealt with that without her? You don't have the experience to cleanly say one way or another, and perhaps that's telling, because if there's one thing Kyubey isn't lacking it's experience.
----[X] And yet, that's just... Not a problem. Homura is just *completely* in the way of that being a problem. You can make whatever guarantees you need to make, preemptively smash even a group like Iowa if you have to, and Kyubey can't do a thing about any of it because of her.
-----[X] Really, she just makes SHIELD look like a bunch of wannabes.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
MCU hasn't come out yet, and Homura seems unlikely to recognize Marvel Comics.
- Location
- Illinois
Yeah but that's not gonna stop Sabrina is it
- Location
- Laniakea
The issue I have here is that we don't enough about what Kyubey's been up to recently to be anywhere certain if this is true right now. It's possible that Kyubey wants us dead right for our de-Witching experiments but it's equally as possible he's decided to be hands-off for now and observe. And it's why I'm so down for having an extra clairvoyant that we can keep their eyes trained on Kyubey's furry ass 24/7. If we say this and it turns out we're wrong, there goes a notch of confidence Homura has in us - plus I don't think we really need to stress Kyubey's involvement for Homura approve of an attack on Iowa anyway, she already thinks they're dangerous and was all for it in the recent update.
What we need to do is give Homura a task she can carry out in the meantime to boost some of her confidence, separately from what we're personally doing. It's easy to -say- we're doing fewer things personally, but how about actively delegating something to Homura?
What I'm thinking is, we want to actively bait Kyubey. It's the only way we're going to get him to show any of his hand right now.
De-witching experiments are one thing. But something I think would REALLY get a rise out of him? If he thought we were pursuing DE-CONTRACTING experiments. Turning Magical Girls back into normal girls.
That's going to get him to act for sure.
I'm thinking we should give Homura the Soul Manipulation power gem Sayaka took off Rionna and have her work with Niko on trying to de-Magical Girl Rionna.
If that doesn't get the little white ratbastard riled up, I don't know what will.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
More importantly, we need to bounce nicknames for Homura off of Sayaka, now that Sayaka's started it. Homerun, Hommando, Sherlock. Homie.
It's possible that those help, but it definitely wants us dead because we're keeping Madoka from wishing. Any other stuff we're doing is a millimeter-thick layer of icing on a cake the size of Earth.
- Location
- Laniakea
Except I'm also not 100% certain this is true (not that we should say so in front of Homura).
As I mentioned before, Kyubey hasn't shown up to contract Madoka very much this quest. Suspiciously little, in fact. On the other hand, it has (on one of the rare extended conversations with it that we've had) mentioned that Sabrina has/had big karmic potential.
If it's true that Sabrina was born from Madoka's wish in the previous timeline, it's possible that Madoka transferred most of her own karma to Sabrina and currently doesn't have much left, making her an unattractive target for Kyubey.
Then there's was Oriko's GM-stated goals not being to kill Madoka this time around.
It's all circumstantial stuff, but enough is odd that I have my doubts.
We still need to keep Madoka from contracting anyway, because that would send Homura completely apeshit and make her instantly abandon us, unless we happen to have a convenient way to de-Contract a magical girl ready.
EDIT: I'm going to take some time to think through it more and make a more solid post later, but I really do think having Homura research with Niko is a good idea for multiple reasons. Boils down to 3 things: 1) Baits Kyubey out, 2) Gives her a mission to make herself feel useful and has a slim chance of leading her to discover the karma thing on her own and take the edge of Kyubey's Timebomb, 3) Let's her bodyguard Niko for when Hijiri inevitably returns. Homura won't leave Mitakihara, so if we can get Niko to come here instead, it might even bait Hijiri out (which we can use to sell the idea to Niko, along with Soul research).
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
As long as we're not informing Madoka and Hitomi, is there anything else we can do to protect them and keep them none-the-wiser? Because literally anything we can do we should also apply to their families, and Sayaka's family.
...Honnnnestly Sayaka's parents are probably a bigger target.
...Honnnnestly Sayaka's parents are probably a bigger target.
hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
Magia Record is not canon to PMAS, which means that Iroha, Ui, Touka, and Nemu never contracted. Kamihama was never brought into the story, so the characters are unlikely to ever show up.
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah this world doesn't have Iroha contracting but it's a shame we can't get some of the megucas that would be around regardless on our team. I want to be science buddies with Hinano.
But of course there's just so much stuff and it's constantly updating and Firn would have to be constantly trying to work out whether this detail and that detail would be the same or different in a world where Iroha never contracted.
But of course there's just so much stuff and it's constantly updating and Firn would have to be constantly trying to work out whether this detail and that detail would be the same or different in a world where Iroha never contracted.
