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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Godwinson said:
I would not put it past Firn to edit relevant parts of PMAS on account of memory magic. If we have the originals elsewhere, then Sabrina can remember. If we don't, then she might not even realize the memories were altered.
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Alternatively in this case, he ends up writing the chapters from a mind controlled perspective in the first place.

The bits where Firn cuts to scenes to "the conversation continues and you relax with your friends for a while" or "you draft up the alliance treaty without showing the exact terms" and the text doesn't go into any real detail sound a bit like what one would expect from what we've heard of mind manipulation so far. (Memories papered over in ways no one really digs into or questions.)

robinic said:
I don't think it's something we can handle yet, and certainly not in the next update (don't wanna clutter up the vote again) but, wrt the potentialbomb...
Have we considered asking Madoka?

Because we've demonstrated that Sabrina is... Not Great at handling delicate emotional stuff. Whereas helping her friends is kind of Madoka's Thing and what she's best at.

Though it would have to be done 1) without Homura around (easier said than done) and 2) phrased in a way that we're not betraying Homura's trust, (no mentioning of the Loops or more Magical Girl stuff) though that could definitely be arranged with a little forethought and preparation. Just something like "I have a friend I'm worried about. There's something she needs to know, because if she finds out at the wrong time, or from the wrong person, it would absolutely destroy her. I can't keep it from her forever, because if I do, I'm risking her finding out in the worst possible way. What would you do?"

....in retrospect, that kind of phrasing applies to well, everyone and the Witchbomb, too.
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Speaking as someone who's come up with these kind of information runarounds before, I come to the conclusion that doing so is tempting, but won't really help: Anything we tell Madoka should be clear and actionable, doing otherwise risks losing the point or giving away too much.

My conclusion from my own failures in this regard has pointed me to thinking that plans and ideas are like machines: The simpler they get, the less can go wrong. (This doesn't mean I'm good at that, but I understand the use in simplifying an idea's working parts, even if I'm not so good at starting simple.)

It doesn't mean nothing can be done, but, for a counterexample, I'd consider talking to Madoka about how Homura worries about hurting her and giving advice based on that.

Regardless of how core it is to the potentialbomb it is a deep and impactful thing, and giving advice based on it could help their relationship greatly.

And likewise if we find a more definite answer to the potential bomb's core moving parts.

soulsguardian said:
wait. I must have missed this, when did they ask about the witchbomb? I didn't notice that could someone link?
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It's this bit:
[14:50:32] <Fireblade> normally I'd ask about emotions
[14:50:33] <Fireblade> but you've got that covered

For a normal group, who wasn't warned by a friend who already knew? There's only one reason they'd know emotions mattered, and that's from witnessing a grief spiral in progress.

justinkal said:
So Hitomi is being used as a mind reading test subject by Sayaka, right?

Does that mean that if the mind reading works too well, Sayaka finds out Hitomi's thoughts on the love triangle they're in?

If so, would that be a good or bad outcome?
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Eh. Worst case it could get hairy for a moment but if handled well it could bring more good than bad and this is far from the worst place for it to come up.

Given their whole... situation in PMAS I doubt Hitomi will be as quick to make the canonical ultimatum, and everything coming out with us present means we can give them a "If you don't want to hurt each other, you need to talk it out. And you have friends who can help with that if you need us," and I think that would help with most of it.

And do so in front of Madoka and Homura to boot.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Eh. Worst case it could get hairy for a moment but if handled well it could bring more good than bad and this is far from the worst place for it to come up.

Given their whole... situation in PMAS I doubt Hitomi will be as quick to make the canonical ultimatum, and everything coming out with us present means we can give them a "If you don't want to hurt each other, you need to talk it out. And you have friends who can help with that if you need us," and I think that would help with most of it.

And do so in front of Madoka and Homura to boot.
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I doubt the ultimatum would even come up at all. Hitomi knows that Sayaka has a lot on her plate right now.

Edit:
Would be more Sayaka finding out that Hitomi likes him too, but that Hitomi wants to wait for a good time to give Sayaka the first shot at it.
 
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Vebyast said:
It's kind of hilarious how the "fursona" thing didn't get any engagement at all. Usually people at least malign our bad taste or laugh, but this time we appear to have gone so far that their minds just refused to process what we said.
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Thinking about it, they might not have actually known the word we used. Mitakihara's curriculum is outstanding, but I really doubt they got that far into English language.
 
Godwinson said:
Thinking about it, they might not have actually known the word we used. Mitakihara's curriculum is outstanding, but I really doubt they got that far into English language.
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Hmm. Yeah, I could see that. Which means that we're going to get a steady stream of friends over the next few hours getting to a computer, looking up the word, and WTFing hard. I think that I am okay with with.
 
Vebyast said:
It's kind of hilarious how the "fursona" thing didn't get any engagement at all. Usually people at least malign our bad taste or laugh, but this time we appear to have gone so far that their minds just refused to process what we said.
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My reading was more in the vein of one of the stereotypically Japanese responses to certain social problems. "Just refuse to acknowledge until they stop"

Personally, it amuses me that we're thinking about so many horrible things and, with these potentially quest-ending revelations in mind, all it takes is a little exclamation from Sayaka and we blurt out...

The fursonabomb.

Because of course we wouldn't witchbomb our friends off the bat like that.

I have to say I'm proud of myself for my part in keeping that conversation going long enough that it popped up on Sabrina's radar.

It's everything I'd hoped for. XD
 
Godwinson said:
I would not put it past Firn to edit relevant parts of PMAS on account of memory magic. If we have the originals elsewhere, then Sabrina can remember. If we don't, then she might not even realize the memories were altered.
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Welp, time to paranoidly copy and paste the entire quest into a word document. :V

Cae Lumis said:
If one reads the PMMM novelization (hell, just the first chapter is enough)
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Wait... there's a novelization?!

*snip the Magia Record discussion*
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Doesn't that game take place in an alternate timeline?
 
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Godwinson said:
Thinking about it, they might not have actually known the word we used. Mitakihara's curriculum is outstanding, but I really doubt they got that far into English language.
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You say that but there's a nonzero chance Saotome-sensei broke up with somebody because she learned they were a furry and spent the first 30 minutes of class telling her students about it.

Re: Madoka being a transfer student, maaaybe she transfered really early in like, elementary school or something, because she's shown in her present-day bedroom as a much younger child in the movie OP. I'm willing to roll with "Madoka was overprotective of Moemura" because that completely makes sense, actually. And I can roll with "Sayaka helped bolster Madoka as a kid because they seem like those types" and I can maybe even roll with "Sayaka gave Madoka a complex because it's already established everywhere else that Madoka has a huge inferiority complex and judges her self-worth by her ability to pay back everything nice ever done for her."

What's really fucking me up is "Madoka is a transfer student", because like... bitch, when? And what does this mean in the post-Rebellion universe where you spent 3 years in America? In that universe how many times did you play School Leapfrog? How many years did you spend with Sayaka before leaving and coming back?
 
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obssesednuker said:
Wait... there's a novelization?!
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Yep. Penned by Gen Urobuchi himself. Although it has the standard issues that come from being a Light Novel (Light on the descriptions in battles, overall smaller paragraphs and more focus on keeping things concise), its primary value comes from the fact its told all from Madoka's perspective. Meaning we get an in-depth insight into what she thinks, why she thinks, and how she reaches the conclusions she does. Doing further digging gives us yet another reason to hate The White Rat: In the novel, Kyubey transmits Sayaka's last thoughts to Madoka via telepathy. Her last words before witching out were "I'm sorry, Madoka." This is probably meant to explain why Madoka shows up at the Train Station after Sayaka Witches Out in Episode 9, Kyubey quietly linked her to Sayaka just as she was witching out to further nudge Madoka into contracting. It can link people to other people's thoughts without notifying them, and will do so if it can advance his plans to make Madoka contract.

For what it's worth, here's Chapter 1.

soulsguardian said:
I actually really like that fact, it gives more context and weight behind their relationship. and Godwin, nobody starts out kind or as the person they want to be, you grow to that point, like with anywhere else, the fact that madoka once was where homura was and tries to be the person for her that she needed at the time, which honestly makes her even kinder and more relatable to me cause I've been in the same place
I had to move a lot as a kid and it was never easy showing up at a new school with no friends and being lost and on your own, I wish I had someone pike madoka at that point in my life,
and it doesnt mean she's not kind, yhe fact that she did reach out is proof of her kindness, someone who wasn't as nice would have turned the eye or not have been as attentive or caring, no matter what their background may be
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That's more or less my stance as well. It doesn't contradict the idea that Madoka at her heart is a sweet and kind person with a gentle heart, in fact, it might have been that very reason she was bullied, to begin with. Personally, I think the backstory provided for how Sayaka and Madoka first met and became friends adds depth to Madoka's own character. The Nitro+ Novel paints Madoka as someone who feels she lives in the shadows of giants, people she aspires to become and looks up too... yet feels she'll never measure up. That she feels she can never become their equal and a true friend because of it. This is why she holds so much empathy towards Homura, especially during the earlier cycles where her suspicions are proven right... the two of them are just alike. She doesn't need to work hard to aspire to be like Homura, or force herself to rise to her level. To quote from Strygia's Advice and Trust, I could easily see Madoka make the arc quote to Homura,

"You're just like me."

TLDR; It doesn't go against the current assumptions, it adds onto it. It provides added context and reasoning behind her many interactions with Homura throughout the timelines.

AuraTwilight said:
Re: Madoka being a transfer student, maaaybe she transfered really early in like, elementary school or something, because she's shown in her present-day bedroom as a much younger child in the movie OP. I'm willing to roll with "Madoka was overprotective of Moemura" because that completely makes sense, actually. And I can roll with "Sayaka helped bolster Madoka as a kid because they seem like those types" and I can maybe even roll with "Sayaka gave Madoka a complex because it's already established everywhere else that Madoka has a huge inferiority complex and judges her self-worth by her ability to pay back everything nice ever done for her."
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That's actually when it's said she transferred in originally: Elementary School. All the images of Sayaka and Madoka's first meeting depict them as Elementary School aged and agree on that.



annnd repost:
 
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proposed vote -

[x] Continue enchanting as per previously locked in votes, until...
[x] Dinner!
[X] What do you do after dinner/during downtime?
- [X] Brainstorm over Tokyo with Madoka and Hitomi
-- [X] Prepare that written brief for Homura to inspect first


Lets talk politics! since it brings our non-MG friends into the fold in a useful fashion more concrete then emotional support. Also

Firnagzen said:
"You were already well-positioned to negotiate as a peer group," Hitomi notes, looking up from the notes she's poring over with Madoka. "Just by virtue of having enormous metaphorical resources in the form of your magic. This only cements your position."
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....Hitomi is too good for Violin boy.

Sayaka woo her! Woo her and give Yuma three big sisters!
 
Oh, hey!

So Mami just suggested we make a control enchantment to put someone in control of their own mind, so as to resist mind control.

Which makes me wonder: Could something in the same vein work on a witch?

Instead of an enchantment to shrug off some external factor, something to give them self control, and lucidity.

EDIT:

Heh, this feels like a completely different route than the clear seed based one we're currently planning for, but even if it can't be used as a supplement or in tandem then at least we have a backup plan.

Also it occurs to me that such a thing could be good Dedolere insurance, if it panned out. (Make our witch lucid enough to think things through and/or explain herself.)
 
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Cae Lumis said:
Yep. Penned by Gen Urobuchi himself.
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Your own link said:
A novel adaption of Puella Magi Madoka Magica published by Nitro+, using the original animation's series composition/script written by Gen Urobuchi. Nitro+'s Hajime Ninomae is the author, with Yuupon as the illustrator.
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That means it's based on the series by Urobuchi, but written by some other person. So you either didn't bother to read it, didn't understand what you read, or you're being deliberately dishonest to bolster your headcanon.
 
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Firnagzen said:
- [] Relax (this is a timeskip option!)
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Ah, an option to timeskip, but seems like we'll be doing nothing in the meantime.

It appears Onmur was right all along:
Onmur said:
If we take the shopping trip with Homumom this next morning... we've already done this once, so the repeated details would be glossed over?

Meanwhile, if Homura wants to talk about anything, that would merits detail.

[Q] From now on, everything that's not fluffiness or important talk with Mami, Homura, or any of Sabrina's other friends, is to be glossed over.

Many updates later:

"This is an intervention."

"Why? What happened?"

"Sabrina, you've been... spacing out."

"Really?"

"Yes, you've been doing nothing but cuddle Mami, give everyone hugs and space out all day. You haven't even met any of the last thirteen refuges we've got, you ignored your appointments with Hitomi's parents, Yuki, and a talk with Kyouko, and generally have only been paying attention to Mami who, by the way, seems really happy with this change of pace."

*Cuddles Sabrina*

*Cuddles Mami*

"See?"

"Wait a second... I thougt I was timeskipping! Do you mean I was actually not doing anything?!"

"That's what I said."

"Oh my Madoka..."

"Yeah, and you've been murmuring strange things. But I mean, where you trying to timeskip through your life? Like a video game? Really?"

"... It worked that saturday we went shopping for clothes."

"... I don't know what's worse, that you've actually successfully had timeskips in your life, or that I'm not surprised."

*Hugs Sayaka*

*Grumbles but hugs Sabrina*

"Weirdo."

"... By the way, if I haven't been taking care of everything, and Mami has been hugging me, who's been taking care of all the things? You?"

"... We've had to improvise."



A group of meguca sit atop really, really high chairs in a semi circle, flanked by other meguca, all in a humongous room.

"THE TOKYO COUNCIL WILL HEAR YOUR PLEA."

On the floor, in the middle of the semicircle, stand Homura and Oriko.

Oriko tilts her head at Homura and makes to speak.

Homura glares at Oriko.

Oriko steps back ever so slightly.

Homura glares at everyone in the room.

A meguca sitting in the middle of the circle repeats:

"... THE TOKYO COUNCIL WILL HEAR YOUR PLEA."

...

"THE TOKYO COUNCIL-"

"Lunch break!" yells Ueda Noa.

"You're not in charge-"

"Lunch break before L'Oreal hair kills us all!"

Everyone, who until that point was subtly pretending to listen while doing other things, like their nails, actually look at Homura.

Homura glares bloody murder at the sheer indignacy of standing under the eyes of a bunch of uppity meguca besides Mikuni Oriko.

A loud rush of scrapping chairs later, the room stands completely deserted, except for Homura and Oriko.

"Well..." the ex-Seer murmurs, not looking at her impromptu partner, "I think we can count this as first blood to us."

Homura's eye starts to twitch.


"... But at least Homura seemed optimistic! ... Sabrina?"

*Hugs Mami with eyes glossed over*

"Son of a b-"
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Cae Lumis said:
Yep. Penned by Gen Urobuchi himself. Although it has the standard issues that come from being a Light Novel (Light on the descriptions in battles, overall smaller paragraphs and more focus on keeping things concise), its primary value comes from the fact its told all from Madoka's perspective. Meaning we get an in-depth insight into what she thinks, why she thinks, and how she reaches the conclusions she does. Doing further digging gives us yet another reason to hate The White Rat: In the novel, Kyubey transmits Sayaka's last thoughts to Madoka via telepathy. Her last words before witching out were "I'm sorry, Madoka." This is probably meant to explain why Madoka shows up at the Train Station after Sayaka Witches Out in Episode 9, Kyubey quietly linked her to Sayaka just as she was witching out to further nudge Madoka into contracting. It can link people to other people's thoughts without notifying them, and will do so if it can advance his plans to make Madoka contract.

For what it's worth, here's Chapter 1.



That's more or less my stance as well. It doesn't contradict the idea that Madoka at her heart is a sweet and kind person with a gentle heart, in fact, it might have been that very reason she was bullied, to begin with. Personally, I think the backstory provided for how Sayaka and Madoka first met and became friends adds depth to Madoka's own character. The Nitro+ Novel paints Madoka as someone who feels she lives in the shadows of giants, people she aspires to become and looks up too... yet feels she'll never measure up. That she feels she can never become their equal and a true friend because of it. This is why she holds so much empathy towards Homura, especially during the earlier cycles where her suspicions are proven right... the two of them are just alike. She doesn't need to work hard to aspire to be like Homura, or force herself to rise to her level. To quote from Strygia's Advice and Trust, I could easily see Madoka make the arc quote to Homura,

"You're just like me."

TLDR; It doesn't go against the current assumptions, it adds onto it. It provides added context and reasoning behind her many interactions with Homura throughout the timelines.



That's actually when it's said she transferred in originally: Elementary School. All the images of Sayaka and Madoka's first meeting depict them as Elementary School aged and agree on that.



annnd repost:
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if anything it really changes and explains why homura is like she is
"instead of madoka protecting me, I want to be strong enough to protect her"
she has taken on a lot of the traits madoka had as a magical girl, both the good and the bad, don't know if it was because of the wish or simply because she looked up to madoka and sought to emulate her
 
Firnagzen said:
"Then I will send Sasami and Shinobu," Yuki says. "You've met them both before - is that acceptable to you?"

"Koizumi Sasami, and Nanami Shinobu, right?" you ask. The former you'd met at Sendai - the laser mage whose Soul Gem you'd stolen, and the latter is their item conjurer, apparently. "It... should be fine? Assuming they're OK with that?"
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Wasn't Shinobu out when we went to Fukushima? We thought she was the mountain, and Yuki brought her to life.

Firnagzen said:
"You scared the everliving shit out of them," she says, leading the way down the stairs. "And you hurt them. But these things happen when you're on the opposite sides of a conflict. That said, if you wish to meet them, we all live here. Moe and Atsuko are around today, though Sasami and Shinobu are out. I don't believe you've met the latter?"

"No, I don't think so," you say. It's actually a touch difficult to sense anything in this building - not so much that they're disguised. You can sense two presences in here, other than yourself and Yuki, but there's just so much magic they're almost unnoticeable against the background noise. "Are they OK, though?"
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Firnagzen said:
"Yeah... I... OK, this is probably a dumb question," you say slowly. "But given that magic is magic, I just wanna be clear. You have some kind of power to claim locations, bend them to your will, that much is clear. You also have a teammate named Shinobu, and Mount Shinobu is... right there."

You gesture towards the mountain.
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[x] Continue enchanting as per previously locked in votes, until...

[x] Dinner!

[x] What do you do after dinner/during downtime?
-[x] Brainstorm over Tokyo with Madoka and Hitomi
--[x] Prepare that written brief first
---[x] If Homura doesn't object, work on it with her in timestop. Easier to get feedback, and it means you aren't spending social time on writing.
---[x] You don't expect to disagree much, but if you do, take the time to explain your understanding of Madoka's psychology as it relates to your proposed explanation.

I think that that'll probably be good for an entire update, actually, so I'll say just leave it there.
 
[x]Vebyast

edit: Unrelated to any discussion, but how long after we kick Walpy's ass do you think it'll be before we can get one solid "WRY" out of Homura?
 
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Vebyast said:
[x] Continue enchanting as per previously locked in votes, until...

[x] Dinner!

[x] What do you do after dinner/during downtime?
-[x] Brainstorm over Tokyo with Madoka and Hitomi
--[x] Prepare that written brief first
---[x] If Homura doesn't object, work on it with her in timestop. Easier to get feedback, and it means you aren't spending social time on writing.
---[x] You don't expect to disagree much, but if you do, take the time to explain your understanding of Madoka's psychology as it relates to your proposed explanation.

I think that that'll probably be good for an entire update, actually, so I'll say just leave it there.
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Point of contention: If Hitomi's reading over it then dinner should be the last thing there. That's when she'll leave, after all.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Point of contention: If Hitomi's reading over it then dinner should be the last thing there. That's when she'll leave, after all.
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Good point, and even more reason to do the writeup in timestop.

[x] Continue enchanting as per previously locked in votes, until...

[x] If Homura doesn't object, work on that written report with her in timestop before dinner.
-[x] You want Hitomi to have time to discuss it before she has to leave.
-[x] Working on it together with Homura, instead of presenting it to her at the end, means you can work over differences and take the time to explain how you think Madoka thinks.
-[x] Make a copy for Hitomi to take home. Who knows, maybe her mom will be interested too.

[x] Dinner!

[x] What do you do after dinner/during downtime?
-[x] Brainstorm over Tokyo with Madoka and Hitomi
 
[x]Vebyast

I don't actually know if I need to re-vote to have the new one counted, but I think that I didn't once before and it didn't count my vote.
 
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