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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Tentative vote update:

[] Agree to end the meeting soon.
-[] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.

Taking this line. Toning down the first line.

[] Release the Field.

Releasing the field before the call out and demands.

[] Before letting her be, call her out on everything.
-[] Get concessions in exchange, without pissing her off too badly:
--[] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
--[] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
--[] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.

Not listing out all we want from her right now.

[] Go. Once you're away:
-[] Timestop meeting.
-[] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.

Leaving out getting Sayaka and O&K right now.
 
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Muramasa said:
Guys no. Guys stahp.


[x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
[x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
[x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
[x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
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This is a unique opportunity to get an expert's opinion on our soul and our progress on de-Witching. While it might be a good idea to postpone it until morning when we're all more calm, I don't want to give up on it completely.

If not for that nagging thought, I would fully support this vote.
 
Warning : I am on my tablet so spelling will not be checked and i am going to be talking for the stand point of a psych student. What I am seeing here is a person been made highly uncomfortable by the situation she is in and has been forced to confront and aspect of herself she does not like. She also seems to be aware of the fact that not only whe not fully in control of the situation but that there is a very real danger that at least some part of the person she is dealing either wants to strip her of her power or maybe even find a reason to kill her and she is not 100% certiant she can win. What just happened there dosent strike me as a caculated move but rather a that of person lashing out in either fear, anger, or frustration. For all her stone face indifernce she puts at least some of that is an act. While warning her not to do that again is fair i would advise pushing to hard or she will probaly fully comit to trying to fight her way out of this situation.
 
Onmur said:
No, don't. Stop.

We're in control. She tried something against us and it didn't work. We can use it. We can make demands. Don't lash out, stay in control, use this.

We still need to get things out of Riona even if we have to be dishonest about our intentions. Even if we wouldn't actually let her leave tomorrow, we still need to consult her about Souls and try to find out what's going on in Edinburgh, in case something goes really wrong if we antimagic and imprison her.
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Onmur said:
[] Promise to ler her go soon.
-[] Because you're sick of this meeting, of her. Not because she's asking.
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Seems good so far. I'd also suggest giving her the option of immediately leaving right now if confinement isn't acceptable.

Everything is fixable, but not everything can be fixed immediately.

But yeah I'm not sure whether it's better to push now or back off and let her relax. Pushing now might bring more knowledge now but backing off might give later benefits or just result in her leaving and giving us nothing.



Kaizuki said:
The last few pages have been outright discouraging for me. I just... Call me Ugo, but I don't see any use in listing all the ways we could subdue somebody, and to see new posters making their first post more or less exactly that...

I don't know. I haven't responded well to it. My brain's still turning over, too, it's just a lot less obvious these days, so... I dunno. Sorry.
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Well it might make you feel better if you saw things from another perspective.

First of all this thread is really long, the story posts alone are longer than most novels, hell longer than some novel series. What this means is for a new voter to go from the first post to finally being caught up on what's happening it takes days, weeks or longer to read all those posts. Unsurprisingly over that time we get lots of ideas, now most of those ideas are going to be immediately be rendered void as we keep reading, for example we might have thought of an alternative means of dealing with Oriko but there's no point in mentioning this since she's now already been dealt with.

The ideas however that remain are largely going to be related to Grief manipulation, power interaction and the occasional idea for various social trips. That's not really a surprise since we've got days or weeks of mulling over those things and a desire to bring new ideas to the thread.

Conversely for something like interacting with Creepy Soul Lady we're going to have even less to bring to the table than the older voters, hell by the time I got around to posting the discussion had already concluded and my thoughts could basically be summed up as, yep I agree with what's happening here.

Basically we're just wanting to bring a contribution to the thread with our first post. We might not be able to come up with a masterpiece of geometry or an incredibly insightful piece of psychological literature analysis on our first go but I do think the ideas us newer voters have brought have strong potential, whether they're fun ideas, combat ideas, research ideas or any other kind of ideas the worst that can happen is they might be a bit silly, have been brought up before or simply not work. If nothing else I think they bring a sense of freshness as we come in all bright eyed and burgeoning with ideas.
 
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Lord Chungus said:
Less that she attacked us, more that she tried to mind-whammy us into letting her go. Still pretty bad, but not one that I'd punishwith death/gemming.
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I'm not the one you replied to but for me her attack simple meant the talk is over. She already won her death/gemming several updates before, when she gloated of making Shades of both magical girls and normal humans, it's just that we have to consult with the others because this is a radical step up in force.
 
LendvaV said:
This is a unique opportunity to get an expert's opinion on our soul and our progress on de-Witching. While it might be a good idea to postpone it until morning when we're all more calm, I don't want to give up on it completely.

If not for that nagging thought, I would fully support this vote.
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Does it sound like Riona wants to cooperate with us on any level?

Because to me, it looks like Riona's just looking for an excuse to fight at this point.
 
[X] Agree to end the meeting soon.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.

[X] Release the Field.

[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.

[X] Go. Once you're away:
-[X] Timestop meeting.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.


I... kind of really want to ask how her name is spelled, though...
 
Onmur said:
Also, Mami. Of course the field won't keep her entirely away
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I'm pretty sure Mami's reaction was from her danger sense. I initially read it as Rionna attempting something on Mami directly, but it would make sense for Mami to get something even if she was just trying to pull down the barrier, so it might not have been that overtly hostile.

Firnagzen said:
I raised my sister's killer," she snarls. "I hate her. I hate her. I want justice, I want my sister back, but I cannae. I can't bring her back. You can't."
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Does anyone else think that this...doesn't line up? The fixation with grief controllers make sense, but nothing else does. The implication of her being one of only two people who are publicly capable of holding a city on their own is that she's on the high end of the power scale. Why hasn't she actually gotten revenge on her sister's killer already? Who is this killer that is (apparently) grief-control related and powerful enough that Rionna feels the need to assemble a bunch of shades? If she has the killer's shade already, what kind of justice does she imagine she can get beyond what she already has? How does it make sense that she seems tied to Edinburgh, if her goal is just to get justice for her sister? Why bother holding the city alone like she is? It doesn't make any sense. The only way I can work it out is if she's trying to create some kind of meguca hell specifically for her target, and that seems kinda out there, especially for someone who doesn't know that dead meguca go to madokahalla.

All that said,

[x] Onmur

I totally agree with Onmur's intensions, although I think we need to be a little more direct in some places. For one, I'm not sure "get her to agree to concessions" is going to pan out, it seems like it needs to be something more along the lines of "make clear what we want, also make clear she has little other choice."

I mean, I can't imagine that if someone wandered unannounced into Edinburg, was rude and uncooperative with Rionna, refused to engage with her on something she actually wanted from the visitor, and then attempted to use magic to force her to end the conversation Rionna would be anywhere close to reasonable in her response. She just doesn't understand that that is the situation she's in, instead of being an overwhelming force who can do whatever she wants on her own terms regardless of her hosts' desires. We should clarify that to her, if only by verbally telling her that.
 
[x]Muramasa

You don't get to lock somebody in a room and then call it an attack when they do what they have to do to leave. That's absurd. She's asked to leave politely already, several times.

It is a tough call between trying to stop her or not, but ultimately I think we lack the info to interfere in a way that lines up with my mores. I think if we kill her there's a big chance we end up killing a lot of innocent people to soothe our own conscience, which is a bad route. If we mean to cast judgement, we should have the decency to check out the situation in more detail first.
 
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We should have Sayaka copy her power. It's too useful to pass up, and Rionna really has no grounds to object after the shit she's pulled.

[X] Try that shit again on anyone in your territory, or hurt anyone in Mitakihara, and her life is forfeit.
[X] You'll let her go, but she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing—so you'll be taking something in exchange. Your teammate is going to copy her power before she leaves this privacy sphere. It won't harm her or her power in any way, nor can it be used to track or monitor her. But you'll be getting SOMETHING out of all the trouble she's caused you.
 
LendvaV said:
Does that include pressing further about her sister and her killer?
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I was thinking more about consulting her on Soul related matters. Leaving it open is nice, however, in that we could as anything if she agrees to answer anything. :p

angelofwhim said:
I don't want to release her till we are sure she can't mind control mami at the moment.
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If anything, Riona being in the Field is bad for Mami, since Mami's the one being blocked from the inside, while Riona could still send magic outside.
 
[X] Agree to end the meeting soon.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.

[X] Release the Field.

[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.

[X] Go. Once you're away:
-[X] Timestop meeting.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
 
(Riona mind controlling Mami?)
LendvaV said:
She has no reason to. In fact, she has plenty of reason not to.
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Riona has one reason: escalation. She already escalated from talking with us to attack us and didn't work, it isn't that farfetched to believe Mami is a next step.

And Riona doesn't need to "win" for Mami to lose: she just has to throw the Witchbomb.
 
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So first of all. Damn does this thread move fast. I feel like I get halfway through a post and 5 more amazing insights and ideas have been said that make me want to rethink my position before I'm finished.

Onmur said:
I'd like to consider the possibility of not listing out demands quite as extensively.

I'd still want to raise demands, I think we have to. Riona did this very wrong thing now, and now it's the best time to demand compensation for it, before it can be brushed away as being in the past.
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Ahh I don't know what to do! I want to exploit this easy weakness and our dominant position but I also want to express magnanimity and let her go.

Muramasa said:
Does it sound like Riona wants to cooperate with us on any level?

Because to me, it looks like Riona's just looking for an excuse to fight at this point.
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I get the feeling she was looking for a fight but didn't get what she expected. Right now I think she's just feeling trapped and lashing out.

Onmur said:
[X] Agree to end the meeting soon.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.

[X] Release the Field.

[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.

[X] Go. Once you're away:
-[X] Timestop meeting.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.


I... kind of really want to ask how her name is spelled, though...
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This feels like a bit of a reversal in position. I'm kind of curious as to your thinking here. Both ideas seem like they would work quite well but it's still something of an abrupt change to go from pressuring from advantage to easing up and letting her regain equilibrium.


Anyway my own thoughts here are I definitely want to get as much information on souls as we can from her but I get the feeling she's not going to be open for real cooperation anytime soon.

Another more morally dubious idea is to have Sayaka copy her power, I highly doubt she'll give permission and it might be a bit dangerous but if we get Sayaka under a privacy construct and then have her nab the power well then the only thing she offers is experience and knowledge which will be much easier to drag out of her than actual cooperation.

Edit: actually just saw this post

Filraen said:
But Riona has one: escalation. She already escalated from talking us to attack up and didn't work, it isn't that farfetched to believe Mami is a next step.
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I'm definitely on the boat for letting her go now. I'm no longer undecided on how I want this to go.
 
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I wonder if Riona knows about incubator motivations vis a vis energy yields as a means of punishing them. Perhaps we could point her in that direction?

[]If you ever want to punish Kyubey instead of his pawns, my door is open.
 
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