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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Protovote.

EDIT: Updated vote later on.


[] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.

[] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
-[] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
-[] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.

[] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.

[] Demand:
-[] She stops taking Souls.
-[] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them.

[] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
-[] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
-[] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
-[] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
-[] Etcetera.
-[] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.

[] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
-[] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
-[] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
-[] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
That said, We're also not going to get her to drop this right the fuck now.

However, I still don't like this vote, as it feels way, WAY too much like an ultimatum. She's unlikely to give up the Souls she currently has, as it's almost certainly one of her main forms of Not Dying.
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I get that, but we need to make the offer- she'll probably explain why she thinks she can't. If we can't convince her, well... we kinda have no choice. We can't just ignore what she's doing.
 
"I don't want to set the world on fire. I just want to start a flame in your heart." - Firn

This went from 0 to 100 pretty quickly.
 
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I want to add texting Homura a plan and a codeword or something so she can act on it immediately if things go wrong, and say something about how Riona might have been justifying her actions, but I'm gonna be busy for an hour or two.
 
Onmur said:
Protovote.



[X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.

[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
-[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
-[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.

[X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.

[X] Demand:
-[X] She stops taking Souls.
-[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them.

[X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
-[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
-[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
-[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
-[X] Etcetera.
-[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.

[X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
-[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
-[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
-[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
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Sounding good. Maybe change demand to something softer. We want to be firm but being too firm could put her on the defensive. Just make it clear that those are the terms for our help.

Edit: Derp forgot to change my vote.
[x] onmur
 
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[X] Onmur

Maybe add '[] take a deep breath; calm down' at the start, because judging from how badly the thread flipped out at first, Sabrina might be in a bit of a... state.
 
Added a proposal for softening it. Also Ladylynns suggestion.

[X]Take a Deep Breath/Try to calm down.
[X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.

[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
-[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
-[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.

[X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.

[X] Demand:
-[X] She stops taking Souls.
-[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them, now or upon her death. Should she acquire immortality, she frees them within a century of acquiring it. If she is already immortal she frees them now.

[X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
-[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
-[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
-[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
-[X] Etcetera.
-[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.

[X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
-[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
-[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
-[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
 
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Gadjo said:
I get that, but we need to make the offer- she'll probably explain why she thinks she can't. If we can't convince her, well... we kinda have no choice. We can't just ignore what she's doing.
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I'm fine with giving the statement, but my problem is there's no sign that if she says no, we're still willing to negotiate.

Even if we don't get ALL of what we want, so long as we walk away with even a Partial concession: Such as, Keeping the "Don't do it any further" aspect, for example. We make it clear where our stance on this lies from the start, but also show we're not going to Switch to Fighting her immediately if she disagrees, making it more likely for her in the future to listen to us and potentially renounce what she's been doing.

[X] Onmur

This is basically what I wanted: It allows for Discussion, but also keeps our position in the debate Clear while also offering possible Solutions and concessions for her, instead of going for An ultimatum. It's a far better vote for Negotiation, which is what this is.

Remember, Rionna has the Option to just walk away from this, and us attacking her, while justified to us, to her would prove that we onlyforce our ideals onto others instead of trying to work with them, even if we personally disagree with them immensely.
 
Onmur said:
Protovote.



[X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.

[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
-[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
-[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.

[X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.

[X] Demand:
-[X] She stops taking Souls.
-[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them.

[X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
-[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
-[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
-[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
-[X] Etcetera.
-[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.

[X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
-[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
-[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
-[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I like this, but I feel like this needs to be a conclusion of our conversation, rather than an intermission.
Though I'll be the first to admit I'm not at all knowledgeable on topics of proper timing for Paragon interruptions. :V
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by cmwatford on Jul 29, 2018 at 11:41 AM, finished with 141841 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.
    [X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    -[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
    -[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.
    [X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.
    [X] Demand:
    -[X] She stops taking Souls.
    -[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them.
    [X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
    -[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
    -[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
    -[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
    -[X] Etcetera.
    -[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.
    [X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
    -[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
    -[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
    -[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Null
    [x] You can't ignore that.
    -[x] Calmly. "Will you agree to release those souls, and take no more, in exchange for infinite cleansing?"
    [X]Take a Deep Breath/Try to calm down.
    [X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.
    [X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    -[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
    -[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.
    [X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.
    [X] Demand:
    -[X] She stops taking Souls.
    -[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them, now or upon her death. Should she acquire immortality, she frees them within a century of acquiring it. If she is already immortal she frees them now.
    [X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
    -[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
    -[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
    -[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
    -[X] Etcetera.
    -[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.
    [X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
    -[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
    -[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
    -[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
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[x] This is not okay. Explode her gem.

Lodging a protest vote. It won't win, and I won't argue for it. But is a morally upright course of action.
 
Magical Girls dont get a choice in their power.

Riona knows her power is monstrous, but she had to use it or she would have eventually been overwhelmed in Grief and face a fate worse than death.
As she is forced to use it more and more in order to maintain a supply of grief seeds, she became more and more desensitized to the horror of her actions. Still aware of the horror of her action, but used to discarding that in order to keep living. She tries to reduce the severity of her actions by hunting 'evil' people as opposed to those most powerful, but she knows that doesnt make it that much less monstrous.

She could have easily decided to obtain souls based on power, to make hunting for grief seeds as easy as possible, and ensuring none can oppose her. Instead she (from what she says) only took power from those who she viewed as 'evil'.

I would say that she hates her power and, judging by the fact she outright tells Sabrina what she can do without any lies or sugarcoating to soften the horror despite what the normal reaction to it would be, she probably hates herself too.


She has also apparently been searching extensively for a way to cleanse her gem without needing to find grief seeds. She tells us she has searched every rumor and story of a way to cleanse herself, despite all of them having been false or misleading. She continued searching despite all the failures when many others would have just discarded it as wishful thinking.

Sabrina is what she has been searching for. A way for her to no longer need to commit atrocities in order to survive. A way for her to stop being a monster and just live, no longer needing to use the power she despises in order to collect seeds to keep herself alive.

We present Riona salvation. That she can finally stop using her disgusting power and stop being the monster she feels she has become.
And it looks like we are too trigger happy over what she CAN do to save her.

PMMM is a not a story about good and evil, its about people and the extent that they are willing to go for their survival.
 
Getting an up to date tally since the current one still has me voting for my softened version.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jul 29, 2018 at 11:44 AM, finished with 141847 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Ask Riona to hear you out. No interruptions.
    [X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    -[X] To set standards, justice, good living conditions, spreading cleansing, all of it.
    -[X] Your work towards de-Witching, and hopes that she could help with it.
    [X] Even if Riona's actions could be justified in some ways, from some point of view before now, now that we're here, they are not. Not anymore.
    [X] Demand:
    -[X] She stops taking Souls.
    -[X] If possible, she restores the Souls she's taken, and if not, releases them.
    [X] Every problem, doubt, dificulty she sees with this, she can forward it to us.
    -[X] A magical girl turning other into witches? We'll catch and imprison her.
    -[X] The bodies from the Souls she took have decomposed? We'll magic them new ones.
    -[X] She can't restore the Souls she took? We'll get friends working on it.
    -[X] Etcetera.
    -[X] We'll take care of it. There's no need nor justification for taking people's souls.
    [X] If she's not convinced we can do all this, give us a chance:
    -[X] She'll stay where we can see her, and help us work on de-Withcing.
    -[X] She'll agree to stop taking Souls.
    -[X] She'll agree to restore/release the ones she's taken, once she sees we're making progress, that we're actually making things better.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Null
    [x] You can't ignore that.
    -[x] Calmly. "Will you agree to release those souls, and take no more, in exchange for infinite cleansing?"
    [x] This is not okay. Explode her gem.
Click to expand...
 
I'll mention that Riona probably has a lot of stuff going on that's reliant on her shades, so it'll take some time for her to be able to release/restore them without something going horribly wrong.
 
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