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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
It depends on Anri.

If she doesn't cooperate at all, what are we gonna do? We don't exactly have a prison to put her in.

If we were to, say, imprison her at Oriko's place, with O&K as jailors, or something like that, that's like asking O&K to get hurt in the future. O&K >>> Anri. :|
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If she does cooperate, what are we going to do? Unless how she breaks is very obvious, we aren't going to be able to fully trust her. Even if we did trust her on the balance, leaving her in Asunaro is a total non-starter, but the chance that Homura would trust her to live in Mitikihara is nearly zero, and Homura >>>>>> Anri. And in that situation icing is a complete non-option.


Regardless.

If she doesn't cooperate, icing her is at best a temporary measure. We'd need to bring her back and start working on bringing her around in the short term. That probably means regularly knocking her out, rethinking strategy / showing her progress, letting her supervised jail time to think, and so on. It doesn't really fix anything. At best it's a convenient way to stop her from causing trouble while we work on her but yet can't keep our attention on her. Gemming can only ever be a temporary measure, because the end-state is always to *do something* about it later, whether that's talking to her more or bringing in someone else to talk or showing her a de-witched Yuuri or anything at all.

The best pie-in-the-sky idea would be to arrange a permanent antimagic restraint, arrange an apartment that doubles as a prison, and then have a Sayaka clone watch her forever, and hope that Sayaka improves her clones to the point they don't need to sleep and don't need the primary's active attention (or like gem her when it's sleep time or something). Even that's not great, but it's a possible alternative to permanent gemming. As I explained earlier, gemming can't be seen as anything but a temporary measure.
 
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The logistics of keeping a non cooperative, possibly-psychopath in prison indefinitely... uh, we'd probably need a lot of help with that. :|

And no real way to assure it wouldn't go wrong, since magic is involved. Say, Feathers want to throw another problem our way? Feathershenanigans free Anri, problem made!

So about this vote itself, how about this?

[ ] Kazumi & Niko:
-[ ] Advice against kicking her out. Anri is a danger to herself and others, needs containment, and to get over her issues... At the very least containment.
[ ] Ask to let Oriko talk with Anri before deciding.

And maybe don't mention any other details as of yet?

Or we could include everyone in the Privacy Sphere explanation about Anri and her issues... as much as possible before kicking everyone but O&K out to finish explaining the parts that involve infohazards.

That way we are making an effort to share information with our all friends instead of holding it back selectively (as much as possible, at least).
 
You know, sending people you don't like to Australia and pretending they don't exist has a very long and reasonably successful pedigree.

If it worked for the British, it can work for Sabrina.
 
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer. But Mami is always closest of all." Yeah, we are not at a civ level where 'prison' can work. See under Arkham in the encyclopedia. But more importantly, not our path in life. We think we are here to Save. Measure by that, every day?

Let's move to save her, and see how that works. She won't like the first part, but like any true benefit, soon enough she will find the reward in it.

@SynchonizedWritersBlock et al have got me thinking. Here is an elaboration, tell me if you want to try this?

Let's not think in terms of "have Anri reject her wish." That is problematic in the long term. Let's find a win-win solution? I think that develops in the direction of giving her the motive, means and feedback to live in our magical girl society. We start with her as an "idiot girl" with poor impulse control under big stressors. Kyuubey tends to send us those. She thinks she wants to use her life to make up for the loss of her friend. So we don't go against that. First and hardest job is to un-stopper her ears. Once Oriko gets her to figure out the basics, such as there will be no repeat of her riot / tantrum, we can begin her on the path of righteousness. Not kidding!

The fact we need to install is "Anri has actually wished to hold Yuuri's place in the world." "Yuuri had a normal life once-upon-a-time. She lived by the rules a human needs, and had morality." Have Anri start telling us tales of Yuuri. Heck, transcribe them in a book, to show her we take it seriously. Or go up one notch - fact check her recollections, by summoning a Grief biography of Yuuri before the conversation. That might be a good non-sequitur if we need it. Once we get her to establish a past, we can give her an unimaginable future. Explain the concept that we are saving the magical girls, all of them, and the minimum price she has to pay to us is "comply with our instructions that keep you doing nothing." She could pay more, and "try to make this world possible herself too." Or she can fight, and wind up not being there when Yuuri exists once more. It isn't like we will, or won't try to de-witch Yuuri some day, based on Anri. That is our fate. The fate Anri is controlling is her own. If she makes Yuuri's place in the world awful, by committing crimes while wearing her friend's identity, or makes Yuuri's life wonderful by making her a favorite part of the town, that was entirely her choice. When she doesn't want to buy in, do the demo for her. Get her to be the one to do daily meditation, and small insertion of magic into the Grief Seed, over and over and over. Nobody knows how to do it yet, but you are going to get all the help to find the way for the first time. It is real, our hope. We actually think this way, and it's a darn sight more effective than what Anri had to offer.

So, she can choose revenge, or become the Miko for Yuuri-sama, have Yuuri sama watching over her every bad thought, dedicating her successes to Yuuri, reading to Arzt Kochen every day like a coma victim, ask Yuuri to help her become a better person, etc. We need her to designate a higher power. And maybe get her a day job. Nothing is as un-magical as a part time job, right? Still crazy, but useful and safe-ish crazy. Not at all like Gollum. Because you will insert the morality Anri lacks ATM. And put her in a pudding of social contacts, so if she malfunctions....

How about we get Sabrina deciding on how to Save Hijiri. Should we pass a few turns? That's what we are making up to do, and I suspect that is not the right way to do it. If we hand off this to allies, Niko must not confront her or ferret her out. Hijiri and Niko will have to face off, probably many times, given that we are going down the sisterhood route. But do this from the 'safe' position. Other girls contact her, but not Niko, until Hijiri either gets on the page with Sabrina, or Kazumi. Talk her down ASAP.

We are in a classic resource pinch, hmmm? "Party needs Healing," or in our case, intervention psychotherapists. Multiple.
 
sooooooo.

Alright, let's see here...

Anri Airi...
  • Wish: "I'll take over Yuuri's life. Turn me...turn me...Into Yuuri!!"
Soooo... Possible stable states for this wish... Apparently vengeance is one. I could see her also becoming Yuuri literally and going around healing people with magic.

Hum. Wiki says Kazumi knew Yuuri Asuka. Is that a thing? Actually, um, wait, that would be a big deal.

[X] Telepathy Kazumi: did she at any point know a girl named Yuuri Asuka?
 
Kaizuki said:
sooooooo.

Alright, let's see here...

Anri Airi...
  • Wish: "I'll take over Yuuri's life. Turn me...turn me...Into Yuuri!!"
Soooo... Possible stable states for this wish... Apparently vengeance is one. I could see her also becoming Yuuri literally and going around healing people with magic.

Hum. Wiki says Kazumi knew Yuuri Asuka. Is that a thing? Actually, um, wait, that would be a big deal.

[X] Telepathy Kazumi: did she at any point know a girl named Yuuri Asuka?
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She already told us. Yes. Briefly.
 
Kaizuki said:
Why didn't Anri just wish to bring back Yuuri?
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This seems to be common oversight among girls making wishes. Madoka and Sayaka never consider the possibility that they could wish to bring Mami back, for example.

I think a lot of girls just assume that wishing to bring people back from the dead isn't possible. Maybe because the genie from Aladdin had it specifically on his can't-do list? Maybe the overwhelming majority of girls don't have enough potential to pull it off?

The other point of note is that Anri is not exactly known for her clear-headed and rational thinking.
 
So, I don't think we're gonna be making suggestions about what to do with Anri just yet; we can just answer Kazumi's dubiously proposed idea and see about getting Anri some Social?

Then I'd like to go and share all information we have about Anri with O&K, for their attempt to Social Anri, and the non-bomb parts with anyone who wants to hear them. For the purposes of being transparent whenever we can with our information.

(Kazumi (and Sayaka) can make copied Shadow Grief Constructs about instantly, right?)

[X] Advice against kicking Anri out. Anri is dangerous to herself and others, and needs containment. Also therapy, ideally.
-[X] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding.

[X] Ask Kazumi for a Privacy Sphere, to talk about Anri.
-[?] Privately tell Kazumi she can talk with us or O&K about anything. Hint infohazards.
-[X] Get O&K in here (everyone else is also invited until bombtalk starts).
-[X] Try and explain Anri's situation and motivations in detail.

[X] Once in private with O&K:
-[X] You're not expecting a miracle here. No pressure.
-[X] Offer help/ideas/brainstorming for how they're gonna approach Anri:
--[X] Anri's repressed guilt over Yuuri's Contract/death.
--[X] Blaming KB.
--[X] Yuuri's responsibility over her own actions.
--[X] Dewitching; Arzt Kochen.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
That vote seems a bit unclear on who is in the privacy sphere when. And by a bit I mean extremely.
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I'm kind of hoping for more ideas to pop up.

[X] Advice against kicking Anri out. Anri is dangerous to herself and others, and needs containment. Also therapy, ideally.
-[X] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding.

[X] Ask Kazumi for a Privacy Sphere, to talk about Anri. Wait for O&K to arrive.
-[X] Try and explain Anri's situation and motivations in detail, sans infohazards.

[X] Afterwards, in private with O&K:
-[X] You're not expecting a miracle here. No pressure.
-[X] Offer to talk about how they'll approach Anri.
--[X] Anri's repressed guilt over Yuuri's Contract/death.
--[X] Blaming KB.
--[X] Yuuri's responsibility over her own actions.
--[X] Dewitching; Arzt Kochen.
 
Onmur said:
-[X] Offer to talk about how they'll approach Anri.
--[X] Anri's repressed guilt over Yuuri's Contract/death.
--[X] Blaming KB.
--[X] Yuuri's responsibility over her own actions.
--[X] Dewitching; Arzt Kochen.
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I have to say I'm not sure how repressed guilt and direction of responsibility are going to be productive. It's not exactly the kind of thing you can cold drop into a conversation with someone hostile. It's like when we cold dropped the questions about Kato Setsuko to Akiko, except it'll be worse because Anri is already unstable.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I have to say I'm not sure how repressed guilt and direction of responsibility are going to be productive. It's not exactly the kind of thing you can cold drop into a conversation with someone hostile. It's like when we cold dropped the questions about Kato Setsuko to Akiko, except it'll be worse because Anri is already unstable.
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[X] Advice against kicking Anri out. Anri is dangerous to herself and others, and needs containment. Also therapy, ideally.
-[X] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding.

[X] Ask Kazumi for a Privacy Sphere, to talk about Anri. Wait for O&K to arrive.
-[X] Try and explain Anri's situation and motivations in detail, sans infohazards.

[X] Afterwards, in private with O&K:
-[X] You're not expecting a miracle here. No pressure.
-[X] Finish sharing the details about Anri.
-[X] Talk about Dewitching and Artz Kochen.
 
Onmur said:
[X] Advice against kicking Anri out. Anri is dangerous to herself and others, and needs containment. Also therapy, ideally.
-[X] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding.

[X] Ask Kazumi for a Privacy Sphere, to talk about Anri. Wait for O&K to arrive.
-[X] Try and explain Anri's situation and motivations in detail, sans infohazards.

[X] Afterwards, in private with O&K:
-[X] You're not expecting a miracle here. No pressure.
-[X] Finish sharing the details about Anri.
-[X] Talk about Dewitching and Artz Kochen.
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Mmm, something like this?

[] Agree that kicking Anri out keeps her dangerous to herself and others. Someone is going to have to contain her, ideally find some way to help her.
-[] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding. No reason to rush a decision.

[] Brief O&K in privacy sphere.
-[] She might be intractable, you aren't expecting a miracle. No pressure.
-[] Full details on Anri.
-[] Brainstorm ideas. Suggest:
--[] Immediately give her Yuuri's grief seed. Proves goodwill?
--[] Get her to shift her focus somehow. Sell her on saving Yuuri? Blame Kyubey over Pleadies?
--[] Exploit any opportunity they see.


e: I'm also okay with the Tell Kazumi we can talk about anything line
 
[X] Agree that kicking Anri out keeps her dangerous to herself and others. Someone is going to have to contain her, ideally find some way to help her.
-[X] Ask them to let O&K talk with Anri before deciding. No reason to rush a decision.

[X] Ask Kazumi for a Privacy Sphere.
-[X] Privately tell her she can talk about anything with us, O&K. Hint Infohazards.

[X] Brief O&K in privacy sphere.
-[X] She might be intractable, you aren't expecting a miracle. No pressure.
-[X] Full details on Anri.
-[X] Brainstorm ideas. Suggest:
--[X] Immediately give her Yuuri's grief seed. Proves goodwill?
--[X] Get her to shift her focus somehow. Sell her on saving Yuuri? Blame Kyubey over Pleadies?
--[X] Exploit any opportunity they see.

[X] Remember to heal Anri before waking her up.
-[X] Heal her enough she won't be in pain.

How much should we heal Anri? I mean, it'll take a while.
 
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I'd say just make the anti pain ring for now. Healing Anri will take all day.

Edit: wouldn't Anri be able to heal herself if she's lucid?
 
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