Hell, bonus points for copying Oriko's power: it pits Sayaka's stubbornness directly against the witchbomb. She wants to be useful? Then she'll fight through it for us so she can use the power.
 
Hell, bonus points for copying Oriko's power: it pits Sayaka's stubbornness directly against the witchbomb. She wants to be useful? Then she'll fight through it for us so she can use the power.
Um, no.

First off, what will copying Oriko's power do to Oriko? She'll feel redundant; useless, pointless. She's already tied too much of her self-worth into her precognition; taking that uniqueness away from her--especially after she's (temporarily?) lost that power will make her feel like she'll never be useful or meaningful again.

Also, Sayaka won't get the intuitive, instinctive talent with the power that Oriko has. Which means that she could have some massive power incontinence, considering how hard it is for Oriko to control her own power.

On top of that, Witchbombing Sayaka unnecessarily can backfire in a lot of ways.

Asking Oriko for her advice on matters even after she's lost her precognition has definitely been a good move--it makes her feel like she's worth something even without her power. But copying her power while she can't use it would probably set us way back on that front, throwing away all of the progress we've made.
 
I don't think Sayaka would feel very enthused about using her plant powers to grow food, but it would be a thing on the side...
I can't really see if that's an additional suggestion or a commentary on mine. As far as its own idea, yeah, it definitely fits as a side project. Not terribly visceral in any way, but certainly valuable.

Expanding my thoughts on construction I was thinking along the lines of the the whole gamut of interior arrangement and decoration really. Interior walls, furniture, plumbing and power if she can figure out how...

If she takes it on there's a whole a bunch of separate tasks for her to fulfill. Some are simple, some are more complicated, but the value of each one completed can be seen immediately and are pretty open ended in how they can be accomplished. It's asking her to build in minecraft basically. Every step is valuable, even the ones she rips up later to replace with something better.

And if she's clever she'll realize that even what her powerset can't provide (yet), a visit the right stores can.


-----

Really, I'd like to ask, what are all the projects we want to get to? Not all of them are suitable for handing off to Sayaka, but even stuff like the telepathy router science project is worth getting out there at least for discussion of why they do or do not work.

Hell, bonus points for copying Oriko's power: it pits Sayaka's stubbornness directly against the witchbomb. She wants to be useful? Then she'll fight through it for us so she can use the power.
What Salty Waffles said. Also, while I'm not adverse to letting Sayaka in on the witchbomb, this is not how I want to do it.
 
Telling Sayaka about the Witchbomb might be a good idea. Or to be more exact, hiding it from her is probably really going to backfire. Sabrina doesn't have the excuses she has for not telling Mami. Sayaka wasn't mentally broken, responsible for other girls contracting, etc. Not telling her would mean Sabrina just don't trust her. Or at the very least, that's how she's going to see it.
 
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Wow, this update was fast, that's great, thought I wanted to give my input too, I guess I still can, this is what I wanted to say, it's long I know, but maybe someone can get new ideas from here:

You're right Sayaka, I'm amazing, ain't I? My magic is so OP, is a shame that you can't copy it, you'll never be able to do the things that I can (thought, we could try experimenting with Kazusa's magic and see if you can at least copy the effects).

-But then again that's just me, no, that's just my magic; you've seen for yourself, I'm worse than you at meele, if we got into a situation were we can't use our magic I'll be counting on you, Mami and Homura.

-But talking about them, you should stop comparing yourself to them, really, they have years of experience ahead of you, it's just unfair; if you keep training you'll eventually catch up, bear in mind they were newbies once too, and, for what I know, I think you are better right now than they were at the start, did you know, that whe Homura became a magical girl she once kneeled over just from beating a barrel? Don't... tell her I told you that.

-And yeah, being able to change between power is important, but remember you can hold onto as many as you want before the start of a fight, that will be useful as hell; listen, I didn't even know how powerful my own magic was before all my big fights, and I think you're only feeling like that because you haven't had that same opportunity yet, but not because of that I'm gonna go and start a figth with the first magical girl I find, least of all throw you into a dangerous situation, I don't want you to die, but that's why were training you, if the worst happens I want you to be able to help, and for all of us to get out unscratched.


Or, you know, we could just:

[] Find an empty lot to land in and have Sayaka make a house.

This seems like a good idea, let her see for herself what her powers can do, in this exact moment.


Also, while solo huntings are bad we could let her handle a witch on her on while we just observe in case something goes sour?

Also, about what Kaizuiki said:

-Sayaka, we care about you, not because we pity you, but because you're our friend, you matter the world to us, we care about you the same way we care about Mami, and about Kyouko, and about Homura.

-We care about Homura, and that's why we always want her to accompany us when we're with friends, we don't don't want her to think she has to be alone; we care about Kyouko and Yuma and that's why we pay them too much, they need the money; we care about Mami because she has feel so lonely for so much time, and we will never stop reminding her she doesn't have to be alone anymore... Sayaka, we're helping you because you are our friend, and you're already helping us enven if you don't see it. (also, yeah, you need to add the part of you stoling te money for the yakuza)


Also, in all in for giving Sayaka chores to do (I mean, she gonna work for us eventually, anyway), it will make her feel useful. (obviously we're talking about magical girl chores)


[jk] If you copy Kirika's power you'll be able to kill me easily.
 
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I don't understand the idea that Sayaka can make a house right now. At all.

Buildings are complicated. They're made from lots of different materials, constructed in very precise ways, and they're designed by people who have lots of education and experience in that sort of thing. Sayaka has none of that. She doesn't have the ability to generate most of the materials. She doesn't have the fine control necessary to shape them into the right forms. She doesn't have the knowledge of what buildings are made of or how they're built.

She might have huge potential, guys, but don't make the mistake of assuming that she's capable of all of these amazing things now.

(Also: "find an empty lot"...in the middle of a big city...in Japan. Mkay.)
 
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I don't understand the idea that Sayaka can make a house right now. At all.

Buildings are complicated. They're made from lots of different materials, constructed in very precise ways, and they're designed by people who have lots of education and experience in that sort of thing. Sayaka has none of that. She doesn't have the ability to generate most of the materials. She doesn't have the fine control necessary to shape them into the right forms. She doesn't have the knowledge of what buildings are made of or how they're built.

She might have huge potential, guys, but don't make the mistake of assuming that she's capable of all of these amazing things now.
... I'm not saying she should make an entire building from scratch?

The idea I've giving out is fundamentally one of making a warehouse into a livable space for multiple people. (A la, what Oriko and Kirika did.)

EDIT:
(Also: "find an empty lot"...in the middle of a big city...in Japan. Mkay.)
To be fair to that particular suggestion, this is Mitakihara. Home of "Holy shit, how are these yards so huge?"
 
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[] Reach out to Sayaka.
[] Apologize if we seem like a worrywart, but we're like this with everyone. Mostly with Mami. And Homura.
[] If she feels she's not doing enough, well, 'good news'.
-[] Due to the incoming influx of megucas, the next few weeks are gonna be hectic as hell.
-[] Ask Sayaka to practise her Clone power, pointing out its advantadges (can help guide the meguca inmigrants/help hunt witches while at school; it'd let her scout ahead during hunts; it synergizes with melee training...).
-[] Also, she saw how Haru grew vegetables for her team. If she could help with that on the side...?
-[] Point out Kazumi's power might let her use multiple power effects without changing powers?

[] Transform stress and frustrations into happiness through liberal applications of mumihugs.
[] Karaoke!
-[] Have a duet with Mami.
 
I -want- to believe half of Sayaka's point is to copy Oriko's power. But the witchbomb and the potential issues surrounding copying a rejected magic are uhm... awkward.

I -do- believe the witchbomb is less than lethal for people who aren't Mami. I think Sayaka and Kyouko and Madoka can be exposed to it, preferably not Madoka.

I -do- think using Sayaka as a confidant for some things is a very good plan. Makes her feel included, she has the strongest morals on the team, and frankly? Breaking down her image of us into something mortal is a good idea.

Holy shit, NO.

Solo Witch hunts are fucking dangerous, even for veterans. Need I remind you that our first meeting with Kyouko involved her nearly being killed by a Witch, only to be saved at the last moment by Yuma and Sabrina? Or how Mami, in canon, got eaten alive by a Witch because she was feeling overconfident and was already thinking ahead to after the fight?

Homura exists and can bail people out way better than anyone else ever. At some point Sayaka will end up soloing witches; it's a question of when not if. There's a lot of power variance there, and what I'll say is this: we had probably ought to take her with us and have her solo a witch with us standing by before letting her go off on her own. And if we could find an abnormally powerful witch to show to her so she knows what to look for, that would be a very smart thing to do.

We need something for her to do. It has to be something she stands a reasonable chance of accomplishing, tangible, and honestly useful.

At worst we could let her in on everything we're trying to do and ask for her to generally help. At least that way she'll have a list of things she can think about working on.

Hrm. Oooooh. Hey, there's a thought.

@Redshirt Army what do you think of the following experiment: let's have Sayaka produce a ribbon, push our magic into it and see her reaction. Do you think that would be indicative of whether damaged magics would be safe for her, given that it should depend on whether the magics she's using become "integrated" with her soul or not?
 
Holy shit, NO.

Solo Witch hunts are fucking dangerous, even for veterans. Need I remind you that our first meeting with Kyouko involved her nearly being killed by a Witch, only to be saved at the last moment by Yuma and Sabrina? Or how Mami, in canon, got eaten alive by a Witch because she was feeling overconfident and was already thinking ahead to after the fight?

And that's not the only one, either. Remember those two meguca immigrating to Mitakihara tomorrow because one of their teammates was killed by a Witch? Guess what her mistake was.

We can simply address the point by telling Sayaka that the reason she feels like she hasn't been needed or useful lately is because there hasn't been a crisis since she contracted, and that it's only a matter of time until she's needed.

Worst case, we can take her on a Witch hunt and follow her around closely, but let her handle it on her own, intervening only when she seems to be in real danger...but only after she copies Yuma's power, in case she gets injured.
Well I mean yeah, solo Witch hunts are dangerous, but that's mostly because fighting Witches is dangerous, not because they're solo.

Magical Girls teaming up is normally not done considering resources and whatnot. The groups in Mitakihara and Asunaro are actually out of the norm.

Solo Witch hunts usually are the norm.
 
Well I mean yeah, solo Witch hunts are dangerous, but that's mostly because fighting Witches is dangerous, not because they're solo.

Magical Girls teaming up is normally not done considering resources and whatnot. The groups in Mitakihara and Asunaro are actually out of the norm.

Solo Witch hunts usually are the norm.
I believe Solo Witch hunts ending in death is the norm.

We've seen more Magical Girls working in groups than solo, I believe. Even then, Magical Girls still die, for a variety of reasons, like carelessness, or because some Witches are way stronger than most.

I believe we wouldn't want Mami to go alone on a Hunt right now; nor Homura if we could be there. Never mind Sayaka, who has needed help in the previous hunts we've had with her.
 
I believe Solo Witch hunts ending in death is the norm.

We've seen more Magical Girls working in groups than solo, I believe. Even then, Magical Girls still die, for a variety of reasons, like carelessness, or because some Witches are way stronger than most.

I believe we wouldn't want Mami to go alone on a Hunt right now; nor Homura if we could be there. Never mind Sayaka, who has needed help in the previous hunts we've had with her.

Strong points. I disagree with your take on Homura, but Mami yes. At some point you have to trust people; with Mami having just dropped the "not alone" line, no we don't want her alone, but Homura...? Gotta trust the Homu.
 
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Okay, here's an interesting idea: what happens when Homura sticks one of our complex Grief constructs into her shield? While it's obvious that, even if it remains intact when being put inside of her shield, if she removes it from her shield when further than 100 meters away from Sabrina, it will break apart, if it does remain intact if she brings it out when within 100 meters of us, that has all sorts of potential uses.

For example: let's say we may some kind of personal shield generator or flight pack. Homura sticks it into her shield. Then, while fighting Walpurgisnacht, Homura, while staying within 100 meters of us, takes out the flight pack and equips it, giving her the ability to fly and maneuver, or have a shield generator for added protection. Beyond that, it's a way to save us time making the constructs if we don't want to carry around things all the time that scream Witch! to megucas's senses.

We should also ask Homura if she's ever tried sticking a Soul Gem into her shield before, and if it's possible to stick bodies in there as well. If she's never thought of the possibility, and it works, then we could give her some reassurance that, even if the worst should happen and this loop fails, she'll have a new way forward, potentially bringing Sabrina or others along with her.

Well I mean yeah, solo Witch hunts are dangerous, but that's mostly because fighting Witches is dangerous, not because they're solo.

Magical Girls teaming up is normally not done considering resources and whatnot. The groups in Mitakihara and Asunaro are actually out of the norm.

Solo Witch hunts usually are the norm.
Er, magical girls teaming up is the norm. Practically everywhere we've gone, we've seen magical girls working in teams of at least two. Many of the teams we've seen have five or more.

Also, fighting Witches solo is a lot more dangerous than fighting them in teams, for a lot of reasons. Having someone always watching your back, always offering a second opinion when needed, always ready to bail you out of a bad situation, and always dividing the enemy's focus. Not to mention the fact that having multiple powers and skill-sets means that you're a lot less likely to be screwed by encountering a Witch whose abilities counter yours.

There's lots of evidence showing why solo Witch hunting is a lot more dangerous. Mami's canonical death via Charlotte, despite being an extremely skilled veteran. Kyouko's near-death at our first meeting, only saved by a last-second intervention by Sabrina and Yuma. The dead teammate of the two girls immigrating into Mitakihara tomorrow. One of the first Witches Mami fought nearly killed her, too, and she only managed to escape with injuries. In the end, all it takes is getting caught off guard once, and without someone to back you up, you might not be able to recover before things get worse and worse, until you're killed. Since every Witch is different, and every Barrier is different, getting caught off guard is a constant risk.

Experience helps a lot, but no one is infallible. Without some kind of truly broken power (like timestop or Grief control), all it takes is not being cautious enough at the wrong moment.

As for Sayaka being able to call Homura for help--let's not forget that it's entirely possible to become body-killed in an instant, or for an attack to target her soul gem, killing her instantly. And it's not like Sayaka is perfect. In the heat of the moment, she might forget about calling Homura telepathically until it's too late to convey the message.

We trust Homura to do solo Witch hunts because she has the right combination of qualities: her power is versatile and broken as hell, she's very experienced, she's always vigilant and cautious, and she's got a pocket dimension full of tools for many situations and threats. Hell, even against antimagic, she's still extremely dangerous, as Kirika and Oriko found out the hard way.

Likewise, Sabrina is a safe bet for solo Witch hunts because her power is just that broken and perfectly suited for hunting Witches. She can sense everything around her at all times, from the Familiars to everything in the Barrier itself. She can fly, protect herself from all angles at a moment's notice, negate and destroy the environment of the Barrier itself, and her power can literally disintegrate Witches directly by just taking control of the Grief their bodies are comprised of. Thanks to her flight, she can still be highly mobile even if she loses her legs, and she can still fight highly effectively without arms. Antimagic is still a problem, as is timestop, but it stands to reason that Witches with offensive antimagic or timestop capabilities are either extremely rare or unheard of, and no amount of teammates could do anything about timestopping Witches unless they're precogs.
 
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We need something for her to do. It has to be something she stands a reasonable chance of accomplishing, tangible, and honestly useful.

At worst we could let her in on everything we're trying to do and ask for her to generally help. At least that way she'll have a list of things she can think about working on.
Really, I'd like to give her a list of problems we have anyways. Even redacting it to the publicly known stuff gives her ideas she can pick over.


For instance, here's everything on our Google Document to-do list that isn't marked "done".

Contact the potentials we noticed in Shirome and talk them out of contracting.
Get ready to accept the refugees from Shiogama
Get Kyouko in touch with Miss Pixels so Yuma can go to school
Get in touch with Tokyo and schedule a time to arrive and discuss our offer
Check the guca IRCs and websites Bennouna provided
Talk with Homura about happiness
Practice being a Soul Gem with Homu in timestop
Practice enchantment
Buy a gift for Niko. Precisely, pants.
Grief check Kuroki's phone
Ask Oriko to invite you to dinner/supper
Exchange date gossip with Kirika. Tell her about our dinner date. Ask about her in-house date.
Get Aurora from O&K.
Kiss Mami
Get a hug from Kazumi
Sew a Brina doll and a Mami doll and gift to Mami? ... Use Grief to speed up the process, tho
Tell parents about meguca
Metabomb Sayaka
Metabomb Kyouko?
Hug all the meguca
See a stealthguca about an enchantment.
Tell Homura about raiding other bases

Some of that is fluff and some of that, like enchantment practice, dealing with Oriko, or telling people the metabomb, is stuff Sayaka can't really do for us.

At the same time however, that list isn't really our complete goals and even if we can't say Sayaka is fully equipped to go about contacting and dissuading potentials without the witchbomb to tell her the stakes and the arguments, there's still some value in coming up with everything we plan to do.
 
Warning For Marginal Behavior
[jk]Have Sayaka grow "weird medical plants", iYKwIM. Sell them. Profit. Use that money to pay Kyouko.

Or, you know, find legal ways for her to use her magic to win money to pay Kyouko so she doesn't feel she owes us. Bonus points if we tell her the way she's helping Kyouko -after- the fact.

EDIT: Heck, she could even get enough money to buy her parents a house -heself-, by just starting a fruit smoothies bussines chain.

DOUBLE EDIT: she could even build a house for her parents herself! (once she becomes better at her magic)
 
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We should also ask Homura if she's ever tried sticking a Soul Gem into her shield before, and if it's possible to stick bodies in there as well. If she's never thought of the possibility, and it works, then we could give her some reassurance that, even if the worst should happen and this loop fails, she'll have a new way forward, potentially bringing Sabrina or others along with her.

Somewhere in their she has Chuck Norris' body and thousands of Sayaka's Soul Gems - just kidding.
 
I'll vote this for now.

[X] Reach out to Sayaka.
[X] Apologize if we seem like a worrywart, but we're like this with everyone. Mostly with Mami. And Homura.
[X] If she feels she's not doing enough, well, 'good news'.
-[X] Due to the incoming influx of megucas, the next few weeks are gonna be hectic as hell.
-[X] Ask Sayaka to practise her Clone power, pointing out its advantadges (can help guide the meguca inmigrants/help hunt witches while at school; it'd let her scout ahead during hunts; it synergizes with melee training...).
-[X] Also, she saw how Haru grew vegetables for her team. If she could help with that on the side...?
-[X] Point out Kazumi's power might let her use multiple power effects without changing powers?

[X] Transform stress and frustrations into happiness through liberal applications of mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
 
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