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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
[X] Quick telepathy: Remind Sayaka about that math homework.
[X] Concentrate on making sure dinner tonight is perfect. Perfect food, perfect shoulder bumps with Mami while cooking, perfect tea after dinner, why not.

[X] Once you're done:
-[X] Apologize. The truth is, you've been dishonest about something... You've know about Mami before you even met.
-[X] You knew her name, glimpses of her past and personality... even that she bakes delicious cakes. And you hid this, pretended you didn't know anything... because you're scared.
-[X] At first you were scared because you didn't have anything, and didn't want to drive away the only people you somehow knew about... but now you're really scared because you don't want to drive her away, because you've liked living together, and getting to really know her, and you're very sorry, and hope she can forgive you.
-[X] You're willing to take as long as needed to explain, and you'll apologize as much as necessary, but all you want to ask her now... is if you could live with her. You'd really like that.
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Still not excluding Kyuubey.
 
Maybe we can start talking about Sabrina's weird knowledge during dinner, then move onto the more sensitive parts of it after dinner?
 
Onmur said:
[X] Quick telepathy: Remind Sayaka about that math homework.
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Note that this, at least, is redundant: Sayaka, Madoka, Hitomi and Homura all were going to do their homework together, which they're probably doing now since Sabrina and Mami left for the market first. So instead maybe:

[] Ask your four friends how their big double date went, or is it still ongoing? Tease Sayaka by asking if Hitomi was gentle with her.
 
TheEyes said:
Note that this, at least, is redundant: Sayaka, Madoka, Hitomi and Homura all were going to do their homework together, which they're probably doing now since Sabrina and Mami left for the market first. So instead maybe:

[] Ask your four friends how their big double date went, or is it still ongoing? Tease Sayaka by asking if Hitomi was gentle with her.
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Yeah, but there was a link in the update to that other update, and it was right on the homework part, so... a reminder about that particular piece of homework might be useful.
Firnagzen said:
"Hmm..." Sayaka says. "I've got homework toLINKdo, but not much? Why?"
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I think Sayaka might forget about it.
 
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I'm confused. Wasn't part of the purpose of this visit to heal Kyousuke some more? Or did we do that?

Anyway very nice domestic scene Firn. Now I'm hungry. >.>
 
And thus...after binge-ing through the quest for a whole week. I can finally join in.
...I don't know what the hell to say right now though, so I'll just wait till the next vote comes up...
 
Seems like activity in the thread tends to peak while I'm at work. :p

Sereg said:
I like to think of the causality the other way around. That is Kyuubey's true form. The reason we find it cute isn't because he's making himself look cute. It's because he's programmed us to find his form cute. I find the implications more appropriate.
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I also find that doubtful, for different reasons than Lost did (since I don't think that Kyubey actually cares about free will, given that he's perfectly willing to use coercion and targets those who would be considered too young to give informed consent).

It seems very unlikely than an alien lifeform would just coincidentally have so many features nearly identical to those of a terrestrial animal that humans have a longstanding abusive relationship with, i.e. the common housecat. That is almost certainly deliberate, because his legs simulate the aspects of a cat's legs that are the result of having a skeletal structure, whereas when we see Kyubey's body shot full of holes and eaten in Episode 8 and blown apart in Episode 10, it did not appear to contain any bones. The body is also seriously lacking in tool-using appendages for a technologically advanced species, and Kyubey never demonstrates any telekinesis or uses his ear-thingies for anything other than yanking out souls (and they don't look like they would have much fine motor control). Yeah, they might eventually get advanced enough to have direct neural control of their tech, but they have to get to that level first. Somebody's gotta sharpen the first pointy stick to get the ball rolling.

Most of Kyubey's "cute" traits are the result of simulating the appearance and behavior of cats. And the behavior must be an affectation, because there's no reason why an alien hive mind with no emotions would rub up against people's legs, roll around on its back waving its legs in the air, or any of the other catlike behavior Kyubey demonstrates except as a way to appear harmless to get humans to lower their guard. Seems likely that the appearance is as well. The cute aspects of Kyubey's appearance that aren't just a direct result of imitating a cat are all things that humans find instinctively endearing because they remind us of our own offspring: small size, large head in proportion to body, high-pitched voice. (Although he's lacking one of the classics, since he has small, beady eyes.)

I had some other thoughts on whether Kyubey modifies his appearance and sales pitch to suit the common ideas of the culture he's dealing with (Does he tell Western kids that they're going to become superheroes and Harry Potter-style wizards? Did he look like an angel to Joan of Arc?) but this is getting long so I'm gonna stop now.


Onmur said:
When is the baking happening?
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I think it was suggested that it be after the metabomb, so that we don't let the cake burn while we're caught up in drama.


Hmm... gonna float an idea for an adjustment to Onmur's vote, folding in some ideas from Redshirt Army's post on the last page... his stuff is in red and my additions are in green while Onmur's text is still white.


[X] Quick telepathy: Ask Sayaka and co. how the homework is going?
[X] Concentrate on making sure dinner tonight is perfect. Perfect food, perfect shoulder bumps with Mami while cooking, perfect tea after dinner, why not.

[X] Once you're done:
-[X] Tell Mami that you have something that you want to talk to her about. Something that you've been wanting to tell her for a long time, but you've been afraid to because she's so important to you, and you want to do it now before you lose your nerve or another crisis comes along and distracts us again.
-[X] Tell her that you also want to make sure that you're speaking privately, so you're going to make an item. Prepare the "eavesdropping prevention" grief items like you used with Oriko and Kirika a while back.
-[X] Apologize. Mami is the best friend you've ever had (in the few weeks of life that you can remember, anyway), and you've kept this from her for far too long.
[X] (It's a lot of text, so she'll probably interrupt at some point. Stop to check that she's okay, answer questions, give her time to process what she's hearing, or let her rage at you as needed. When answering questions, you're prepared to tell her anything that isn't a private confidence from someone else, like Homura.)

-[X] There's a lot of things about yourself you haven't told Mami. You said that you wanted some time, to get your thoughts in order, and... you have. And you're... you're ready to talk about it, now.
-[X] You're sure she's noticed, but... the things you know... aren't normal. It's... you mentioned how many languages you can speak, with Miss Benouna. But it's more than that.
-[X] When you woke up, in that alleyway, in front of Sayaka and Madoka... you knew about magic, and magical girls. But...
--[X] You also knew about some of the magical girls in the area. Not in detail. You didn't know where Mami Tomoe lived, or what her phone number was. But... you knew what kind of person she was, before you ever met her. You knew her name, glimpses of her past and personality... even that she bakes delicious cakes. You... you knew, right away, that that music - that Credens Justitiam - was associated with her, even if you didn't know how or why. And... you knew ... you knew under what circumstances she made her wish.
---[X] And you hid this, pretended you didn't know anything... well, at first, you were afraid that if you tried to tell anyone, they wouldn't believe you. Who would? It seems so absurd. Then after you'd been with her awhile, you were afraid that... that if you said anything you might lose her. And you don't want that, because she's become so very, very important to you.
---[X] It was... strange, getting to really know her, finding out who she really was, lots of details, like that she wasn't a morning person, or that she played games some times, or that she had been in the archery club... it was kinda like getting to know a celebrity, someone you've heard a lot about but didn't really know... and you found she was even nicer than you had thought. You can't imagine life without her.
----[X] You're willing to take as long as needed to explain, and you'll apologize as much as necessary, but you hope that... despite this huge secret you've been keeping from her... she'll still let you stay by her side.

...Thoughts?

EDIT: Crap, got Lost and Rex mixed up 'cause of their similar avatars. Also, this post wound up way longer than I'd planned. Sorry!
 
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Kaizuki said:
Commentary please, thoughts questions, criticism please submit with details and suggestions. harsh criticism accepted ig but pls remember im just a catgirl trying to help happiness teh mumis. I'm going to go do something completely different for a while because I just scrapped everything I had written and then wrote this for a few hours and yeah. *falls over onto the floor, tail twitching erratically*

Also wow the formatting is totally shot lol i had it as 1. a. b. 2. a. b. c. etc and then ig it died in the copypasta. I'd fix it but I'm on the floor atm.

Yeah I'll responses at some point i hope i think. Try to uh lift individual parts of this ig? Some parts of it are very strong suggestions that should be included in whatever we eventually vote. See... section 3, subsection 2 in particular, I think. (stupid formatting!)

Disclaimer: actually putting this into a vote form is hard. For now this is an opinion essay on the subject, not a vote. Vote form of this would probably be lots of generalizations or some such.


  1. No lying at all.
  1. That includes lies of omission.

  2. Don't start wtfing yet, hold on.
2. We're not telling her every damn thing.

  1. Rule of trivialities: that time we cosplayed as a maid at Oriko's place isn't relevant unless we are using it to get Mami to give us an Ohsabrina. Irrelevant stuff is irrelevant, Mami doesn't care if we don't tell her about it, and if somebody tells her that we didn't tell her about irrelevant stuff, Mami will give 0 fucks. We're also going to make it clear that we're leaving the irrelevant stuff out, and we should give an example of that.

  2. Wonderful thing called a disclaimer. Topics such as the witchbomb and the loops exist. We don't think it's prudent to talk about them right now for various reasons (pocket nuke, homura's privacy). We are going to make it clear to Mami that these topics exist and that they have repercussions, as well as some fairly vague detail about what those repercussions are. Furthermore we're going to talk about, again, vaguely, what we are doing or planning regarding these things. Then, we're going to tell her about why we don't want to tell her about them. We are then going to tell her that it is her choice whether she wants to know about these things, and we're going to make it clear that if at any point she wants to know about them, she only has to ask and we will tell her.

  3. Exception to that, Homura has a right to privacy and Mami will accept that because that's just who Mami is. We will say some things about Homura, however. We're going to say that she's incredibly traumatized, and because of that she is very willing to be hostile to people she doesn't see as her friends: we're going to say that because it's true and because frankly the metabomb is going to require some discussion of Homura, and that explanation will facilitate it nicely. We may or may not see a need to add that her utmost priority is Madoka's safety, if we do see such a need, we will exclude any extra detail whatsoever regarding that topic as being private. We may see a need to note that Homura has lots of secrets. We may see a need to emphasize that we asked Homura for permission to tell Mami about some of those secrets, that Homura did not give us permission, and that we feel like betraying Homura's trust would be wrong, not least because of how traumatized she is -- Homura doesn't need another wrong done to her, she's had enough of that.

3. Before we do anything at all, any goddamn thing, we are

  1. Going to tell her that we fucked up and this should never have been a big deal. But we fucked up, and then because of that it became this big deal and every day we didn't talk about it it just got worse and worse, building up like some damn TV drama subplot, but we're here now and talking about it.

  2. Going to talk to her some about our fears related to this conversation. Because this has nothing to do with her fear that we'll leave her… and everything to do with our fear that we will lose her. This is one of the major cards in Kaizuki's hand, a card that Sabrina has utterly ignored the entire time: the "I don't want to leave you, Mami. I want to stay." And metabomb is exactly the right time to play it, because it will really jibe (as it damn well should!) with confessing all the various secrets and particularly our belief that we don't have a past to go back to. Honestly I believe that if this card is played right we could do the rest of the metabomb any which way and come out with the Sabrina-Mami relationship better off at the end of it. But we're going to get that right, too, because Mami.

4. Starting the metabomb proper (AKA resolving the Mami issue)

  1. We're going to start from the beginning. Literally. The absolute first thing we are going to cover is what was going through Sabrina's head during the first several snippets of PMAS, up to the point where we accepted Mami's offer of hospitality. Up to when our relationship with Mami started, essentially. Most of that is nothing more than talking about what went on in Sabrina's head in each of the snippets that Mami doesn't know about. One crucial part of it, though, is our rationale for why we went with Mami's offer of hospitality over Homura's (go look at it. Boils down to "scary scary murderface, nice mumi woo" afaik). What this accomplishes is to make clear that we aren't some omniscient puppet master who came into this ready to wrap people around our fingers. If we look at the first few snippets, we see that Sabrina: honestly expressed doubts about her combat capabilities before she knew what they were, honestly did not have a plan for securing housing until it was offered to her, was honestly wary of Homura, and generally acted in ways that some mastermind manipulator would not have. For purposes of discussing what we talked about with Homura and our attitude towards her during that time period, see 2. c.

  2. From the explanation of why we took Mami's offer over Homura's, we go into the metabomb proper. The rationale for that decision obviously relies on metaknowledge, and we proceed to talk about what we knew about Mami Tomoe. This is where the Biography Analogy comes in: for us, meeting Mami was like meeting somebody who we had read a short biography about. We knew, generally, who she was -- supernice meguca, calls her attacks, dramatic flare, makes good cake. And we knew some fairly private information about her, like the fact that she felt lonely, but that's still not outside the scope of what you might find in a memoir. We did not know a bunch of other things. We didn't know about, for instance, Insect Armageddon. We didn't know she'd been a member of the archery club. We didn't know about Ms. Bennounna (spellcheck), we didn't know about (Masami/Hiroko) (factcheck). We did know about Kyoko, though not any of the specifics. Furthermore, what we did know was… frankly incomparable to the real thing. We knew the cake was good, but not that good; we knew Mami was kind, but she took us in and cared for us. By using this analogy we humanize our metaknowledge. At this time we don't cover much of the "deeper" stuff -- especially the "foreknowledge." We'll get there in a bit, don't worry, but for now we're talking primarily about the stuff that's been relevant to our social interaction with Mami. Because that's the part we need to be super concerned about off the bat, really getting the point across that what we have with her isn't "fake" or etc.

  3. From there, we talk about how and why our view of Mami has changed since we first met her. We stress how our interactions with her have taken us from "Mami, who I read / knew about but didn't actually know" to "Mami, my best friend / the person who I don't want to lose." We talk about how the experiences we've shared -- cooking together, fighting together, etc. etc. -- have changed our view of Mami from "a meguca who we have reason to believe is a good person" to the person we wake up with in the morning and go to sleep with at night, cook with, fight with, relax with, etc. "Like reading about somebody and then befriending them." By talking about this we reinforce the fact -- and it is a fact -- that our relationship with Mami is not founded on metaknowledge, that it is founded in the things we've done together… that our metaknowledge isn't something that is going to make us leave her. We convey that we are genuinely her friend, and that we truly want to stay her friend.

  4. And then we talk about the times that metaknowledge has truly come into this relationship. Primarily (afaik), that means the Lichbomb, and our coverup of Oriko's injuries to prevent the lichbomb issue from arising at that time. To this end, we extend the biography analogy: the "biography" that we read also had some stuff in it that hadn't happened yet -- and which, by extension, might never have happen. One of those things was how much the lichbomb would hurt Mami. We cover the Oriko incident first, use it as an example as to how loathe we were to expose Mami to the lichbomb. Then… I don't know/remember the rationale for us lichbombing Mami, but it exists somewhere and it should probably be conveyed (suggestions appreciated).

  5. Lastly, we talk about what we feel and want for Mami… and for ourselves. The guilt we feel over what we feel is a dependency on us that Mami has developed, over the damage that we see ourselves as having dealt to her sense of self-worth. We want to help repair that. We want to help her find other friends. Float the fact that we'd like to try to reconcile her and Kyoko (?). And then, talk about what we want from Mami, what we want to do with Mami, how we feel about/with Mami. The hugs are awesome. Waking up and finding ourselves in a hug is awesome. Cooking together? Awesome. Fighting together? Look at Mecha Zilla. Relaxing together? Nobody else we'd rather do it with. And we'd like to do more and different/new things together with her in the future. We want her to be strong, independent, happy, and have lots of friends, and we'd like to see her not be dependent on us, but that doesn't mean we don't enjoy doing the stuff with her that are doing with her -- quite the opposite.

  6. At the end of all that we mention our theory on us not having a past. Ideally get an Ohsabrina while doing it.

5. Commentary on 4

  1. So, it's pretty noticable, 4 focuses entirely on our relationship with Mami as well as how the existence of our metaknowledge factors into that. The reason for that is that that has to be our foremost priority during the metabomb. There is no point whatsoever, no gain, nothing but possible detriment in moving on to any other metabomb topics until we've fully conveyed to Mami that our relationship with her is safe, strong, full of hugs and happiness, and is not does not need to be please don't let it negatively affected by this. First and foremost this is about coming clean to Mami, therefore stuff related to Mami comes first. Kaizuki's primary goal with the metabomb is to end up with our relationship with Mami being way more secure + ironed out. I want Mami to end up feeling more secure about her situation, about her relationship with us, etc. And I especially want to facilitate that by having us communicate to her some portion of our feelings about her. We don't have to say (or decide, take your pick) that we Like-Like her. We just have to really convey and hammer home that we do not want to lose Mami as a friend.

  2. Some overarching themes involved in this: this is, generally, not the time to be telling Mami that we aren't going to leave her. It is the time to be telling her that we don't want to leave her, that we want to stay with her. It is the time to be asking her for forgiveness, to be asking her not to hate us (maybe, that one's kinda extreme), to absolutely not come off as expecting things from her. It is absolutely the time to make sure we convey our motives and rationales as well as the facts of our actions, because those motives and rationales are what keep us human and make our actions understandable.

  3. At no point are we going to characterize our metaknowledge as being divisible into distinct sets that come from different loops, or etc. At some point we will have to note to Mami that the way in which we are describing the mechanics of our metaknowledge isn't entirely accurate. That doesn't have to happen in 4, and might be better served by appearing in 6.

  4. 4. Is pretty damn long. Hitting every point in it may be hard. There's a few ways to deal with that, for instance we could alter 3 so that we really specifically ask her to let us get the entire story out in one piece, and also some of it could be set aside, but I think the big issue is "what happens when something ends up jumping out at Mami and she wants us to pause and elaborate on it." I dunno. That's mostly why 2. Comes before 4, so that the guidelines for such a situation are already laid out before 4. happens.

6. The infodump

  1. I really haven't planned this section anywhere near as painstakingly as 4. That's largely because it is so much less critical. The really critical parts of this actually were mostly discussed in 2. lol.

  2. Once we've fully stabilized the Mami end of things, we should be able to infodump our knowledge in earnest. Start with anything we've been doing that Mami doesn't know about -- hell, start with the fact that we've been meeting Kyoko.

  3. Hit the high notes. Bring up the witchbomb under the terms laid out in 2. Bring up WPN as a super-big-deal thing, talk some about Homura's goal of defeating it.

  4. I'm pretty done and I want to get this posted. There's some more specific material in the partly-finished version of the essay that existed before I wrote this whole thing today, I'll spoiler that version in below for perusal if anybody wants to look at it. It tends to have a lot more quotes and "we'll say this!" moments.

Old version scrapped but included because it has some nice stuff and because I was too close to falling over to really flesh out some of 6 and 2 and this version did a pretty good job of that.

An Essay On Metabomb


Or, "How to tell the truth and get hugs."



K. So, the first thing is so:


No lies.


I mean, I think that's pretty obvious to everyone, but for fuck's sake we aren't going to lie to Mami while we're pouring our heart out to her. If we did and she found out it'd break her. Maybe not immediately. Maybe not for years. But if she figures out we lied to her without us being the ones to tell her it'd ruin everything the metabomb stands for (disclosure, truth, equality amongst friends, rejection of the morale-endangering idea that we are someone who will manipulate and string-pull our friends and comrades). And that's just point A [see appendix 1]. So we're just not going to do it.


Corollary to that, no lies of omission. Same reason as the above. Except, like, no just no. That would be a complete violation of [see appendix 2] as well as something that could be turned against us in the future ("you're no better than Kyubey!").


So we're going to tell her everything we've ever done or thought about, then, Kaizuki? No. Not in one go, some of it maybe never. Why and on what basis? Primarily, rule of trivialities. Mami doesn't care about that one time that we put on a maid costume and faceplanted into Oriko + Kirika, except as a funny story that we should totally share with her sometime to pick up another Ohsabrina. If somebody tells her that we didn't tell her about it and so we're obviously evil, she's going to look at them funny and then punt them with a musket.


Exception A to that last paragraph: we like Mami, some portion of us (might?) even Like Mami. We're going to omit that last bit unless she asks.


Corollary: it's really, really hard to sift through all of PMAS and determine exactly what all would be covered. In general, anything Mami doesn't know about that we've done or that we know that doesn't fall under "stuff you'd expect a SuperSpecial newbie meguca to do / know." See appendix 3 for some specific stuff that we're going to talk about that might not be obvious, though.


Corollary: the Amy Dallon doctrine: everybody occasionally has some bad thoughts, most people don't find it necessary to talk about them, we're not going to go "oh this one time I thought about forcibly pumping grief into meguca because reasons."


Corollary: if Mami asks about something, it isn't trivial.


Now, there's some things that we know that Mami probably doesn't want to know. By that I mean the witchbomb, maybe some other stuff falls into this. But for fuck's sake we're not going to just omit it, that's what Kyubey did. No, we're going to disclaimer it. We're going to tell her that, using the witchbomb as an example, [see appendix 4]. We try to give as little indication of the nature of the issue as possible, while outlining the scale and nature of her probable reaction to the issue, we reassure her about it (we're trying to fix it, she mustn't give up hope, etc.), and we guarantee to her that if she asks us to, we'll tell her. And just to make this really clear, if she asks us, we tell her. Even if it's the witchbomb.


Corollary: the names of those persons who know about such things are not covered by their right to privacy.


Corollary: If something falls under a disclaimer issue for whatever reason (like the fact that we have "knowledge" of that one time when Mami went Tetris), it is locked up with the disclaimer. Because Tetris isn't something we want to talk about as part of "what we knew about Mami when we contracted."


Now, by this point I'm sure you're all going "Okay, Kaizuki, that's all well and good, but isn't that stuff all basically a big fat DUH put into overspecific terms?" Uh, yeah. It is. But I really needed to get it out of the way because now I have to talk, uh… "tone." Or, like, conversation plans. That stuff.


So, probably the big issue of the night between us and Mami is the "I knew you" part itself. But before even that, we need to cover some prep with Mami, because we're not going to let this be like some Madokami-damned TV drama where somebody reacts to the one part of the story without the entire truckload of circumstances. So, something like this: "everything I'm about to say is completely serious, parts of this are probably going to be fairly jarring, please hear me out fully when those come up, because I don't want to lose you, Mami. So, there's… not just one story, I guess, but… let me tell the whole story each time?" [footnote one]


"I don't think I have a past before that alley. Because I knew you, somewhat, but you… didn't know me." That, or some variation, is our opening of the metabomb. I've had others, similar, not that different. Some more blatant, some more subtle, etc. But always the same starting point. Then we talk about what we knew about her. The analogy I've always couched it in, in my head, is that it's like having read a really cut-down biography about her before meeting her. Which is… really quite accurate. We also talk about and emphasize what we did not know about her -- e.g. Insect armageddon -- because doing so enhances the biography analogy and drives home that we don't randomly know everything about her as well as providing more basis for (see next paragraph w/ "from xxxxxx to best friend"). After that, we then go on to talk about how that influenced our actions towards her… as well as how our opinion of her has evolved over time. In essence, we summarize the thread's thought process regarding Mami as time has passed. Makes sense, right? How is that anything but literal disclosure? And, gee, it's a funny thing: that thought process has evolved over 3.7k pages from, uh… [see Appendix 5]... to, well, show of hands, who here is now attached to Mami? Eh? Yeah. S'what I thought.


So those are the terms we couch that in. Biography analogy, then "since I met you, Mami, it's like it's gone from… having heard good things about someone, to having them be your best friend. To knowing how wonderful a person you are, Mami, instead of having been told it. You keep asking me not to leave you, Mami… I don't want to leave you. If you'll let me stay."


And how is that anything but exactly what happened in this thread. Cool, right?


Now, the obvious question to arise here is why the fuck did you keep this secret, Sabrina? And why was it so hard to talk about in the first place? Well, why did we? Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the original vote (attached to Story Post #2, hot damn that was a long time ago) was unanimous on keeping quiet with basically no discussion. Lol. Why it was so hard to talk about is pretty simple: we'd already kept it secret, and so talking about it… huge potential for making us out as an evil manipulatrix.


Because Mami trusts us, and we trust her, and we're going to sit down and tell her the whole story, not just enough to make us look evil or some shit. The first thing we're going to cover, when we sit down with Mami, is so: we're going to sketch what we knew about her, we're going to explain why that made us choose to accept her offer of hospitality over Homura's, ("Homura is… you're Mami. You're warm, friendly, you have cake,


There is a chance we could, like, run out of time tonight or something. In that case we leave off with some variant of either "what's left isn't too important, we could do this again or we can just let it all come up in passing" if everything big is covered, or "there's more. It doesn't have to come now, though."


Corollary to that, though: by Madokami, this happens tonight. If there's some fucking shitguca riot in Asunaro that we have to go quell at 8 PM right as we're about to talk about this, then we will stretch a ribbon from Mitakihara to Caw Caw City in a damn timestop. And then we will go back home, have some tea and hugs for a little while to calm down. And then we either talk, or we go to bed "early" and wake up early and talk then.


Footnote 1


That's going to be a theme here, btw, us not wanting to lose Mami. Tonight is going to be partly (a lot) about making our side of the relationship clearer to her, and a huge part of that is that we value Mami just as highly as she values us. And we kinda do. Every post about us going from 0 to witchysuperpowers via Mami getting killed? Yeah, we value her. A lot. It's not just that we "aren't going to leave her." It's that we don't want to leave her and we want to stay with her. All these times we've told her that we won't leave her and jeez we really haven't done a great job of vocalizing that in other, more positive terms.


Appendix 1


B) The more Mami knows, the better capable she is of acting in the interest of herself and her friends including us.

C) Keeping secrets makes us look like Kyubey. Part of what we need to do here is make it very clear that she has upgraded to the SabrinaFriend, not traded in a KB for an SV.

D) Our mental health is a concern, however minor. Keeping secrets is hard.

E) Other reasons not listed


Appendix 2





Appendix 3


Why we told Homura about our metaknowledge before we told Mami ("Homura knows things. How, why, and what are… probably her prerogative.")


The damage to Oriko that we concealed from Mami when we fought O + K early on & why we did it


-may be expanded?-


Appendix 4





Appendix 5


What we originally thought about Mumi, some quick and not necessarily 100% representative examples (sourced from around page 17 if someone wants to go look at the vicinity). Note the utter lack of, well, "Mami for Mami's sake."

Addendum to everything I said about metabomb: Mami knows portal. Everybody likes portal. Sabrina likes portal. One more thing Sabrina didn't know, but which is a reason why Sabrina likes Mami.
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Most relevant.

If I could try to put it into vote form:

[] First of all, apologize; this conversation should never have been a big deal, and it's our fault it kind of is because we've been dragging your feet about it.
-[] The reason for that... is that while we never thought about leaving her, we are scared she will push us away. We don't want to lose Mami, we want to stay.
[] When we first woke up, we had all this knowledge inside our head, and we can't really explain it. Or trust it. We knew about Madoka and Sayaka before they even introduced themselves; we knew Madoka is kind to a fault, that Sayaka's got a reckless streak... some things like that. And the same goes for Homura, and for Mami. What we knew back then made our desicion to house with Mami, actually.
-[] We knew Homura is a nice girl, really... that's why we accepted to talk with her... while, about Mami, we knew she is one of the nicest Magical Girls there is, that she likes to call her attacks, she's elegant and dramatic sometimes and makes great cakes... and knew she was lonely. We thought maybe we could share our company...
-[] Then there's everything we didn't know. Like that she's practiced archery, or that she doesn't like coffee, that she plays games some times, or that she's not a morning person... we knew a bit about Kyouko, though nothing specific. It was surprising at times, but we found she was far more than we thought; we knew she was nice, but not to the extent she's shown us; we couldn't expect just how good her cakes were... what we mean is, we really liked getting to know her, truly know her these past few days.
-[] At first she was like someone we had read about, but now she's a truly important friend who we don't want to lose. It's really nice living like this, with her, waking up together, cooking together, eating together, walking and chatting and fighting together... we wouldn't change it for anything.
[] Part of this knowledge is that about Soul Gems. Does she remember the fight with Oriko? We took precautions then... to hide the extent of Oriko's injuries, and even before, we didn't go all out just to hide what we knew about the Soul Gem... Because we knew it would hurt her.
-[] And the we went and told her all about it for the exact same reason we're telling her right now. We are scared she will hate us when we finds out... and that it'll be worse the longer we wait to tell her, the longer we hide these things. We made a horrible mistake that day.
-[] It's something we've been kicking ourselves over, but we hurt her, and made her... dependant on us. It's not what we wanted, and we want to try and help her through it; that's why we figured she needs more friends, and we even think we could get her and Kyouko to make peace... based on out knowledge, again.
[] All we can say now, is that we like Mami, we really want to remain friends; living with her has been awesome; waking up to a hug is awesome, even if she hogs the blankets some times; fighting together is fantastic, even making silly things like giant mecha; just eating and chatting and relaxing, we wouldn't want to do it with anybody else; we want to do more, so much more, and we want work with her through her problems, more because it's our fault, and we want her to have lots of friends, and we want to stay with her and live together.

It's rather big, even after I tried to summarize...
 
Onmur said:
Most relevant.

If I could try to put it into vote form:

[] First of all, apologize; this conversation should never have been a big deal, and it's our fault it kind of is because we've been dragging your feet about it.
-[] The reason for that... is that while we never thought about leaving her, we are scared she will push us away. We don't want to lose Mami, we want to stay.
[] When we first woke up, we had all this knowledge inside our head, and we can't really explain it. Or trust it. We knew about Madoka and Sayaka before they even introduced themselves; we knew Madoka is kind to a fault, that Sayaka's got a reckless streak... some things like that. And the same goes for Homura, and for Mami. What we knew back then made our desicion to house with Mami, actually.
-[] We knew Homura is a nice girl, really... that's why we accepted to talk with her... while, about Mami, we knew she is one of the nicest Magical Girls there is, that she likes to call her attacks, she's elegant and dramatic sometimes and makes great cakes... and knew she was lonely. We thought maybe we could share our company...
-[] Then there's everything we didn't know. Like that she's practiced archery, or that she doesn't like coffee, that she plays games some times, or that she's not a morning person... we knew a bit about Kyouko, though nothing specific. It was surprising at times, but we found she was far more than we thought; we knew she was nice, but not to the extent she's shown us; we couldn't expect just how good her cakes were... what we mean is, we really liked getting to know her, truly know her these past few days.
-[] At first she was like someone we had read about, but now she's a truly important friend who we don't want to lose. It's really nice living like this, with her, waking up together, cooking together, eating together, walking and chatting and fighting together... we wouldn't change it for anything.
[] Part of this knowledge is that about Soul Gems. Does she remember the fight with Oriko? We took precautions then... to hide the extent of Oriko's injuries, and even before, we didn't go all out just to hide what we knew about the Soul Gem... Because we knew it would hurt her.
-[] And the we went and told her all about it for the exact same reason we're telling her right now. We are scared she will hate us when we finds out... and that it'll be worse the longer we wait to tell her, the longer we hide these things. We made a horrible mistake that day.
-[] It's something we've been kicking ourselves over, but we hurt her, and made her... dependant on us. It's not what we wanted, and we want to try and help her through it; that's why we figured she needs more friends, and we even think we could get her and Kyouko to make peace... based on out knowledge, again.
[] All we can say now, is that we like Mami, we really want to remain friends; living with her has been awesome; waking up to a hug is awesome, even if she hogs the blankets some times; fighting together is fantastic, even making silly things like giant mecha; just eating and chatting and relaxing, we wouldn't want to do it with anybody else; we want to do more, so much more, and we want work with her through her problems, more because it's our fault, and we want her to have lots of friends, and we want to stay with her and live together.

It's rather big, even after I tried to summarize...
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Hi give me a bit Kaizuki is actually voting for once :)

I was going to revise bits of essay today but i will just put in a vote for now.
 
Firnagzen said:
And yeah, I was thinking of trying out an Indian curry, just for comparison. We have the spices for it.
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Considering that what the Japanese call "spicy", places like India call "mild", I expect quite amusing reactions to this :rofl:
*frequently orders the spiciest curry on the menu in an Indian restaurant where he's one of the few non-Indians in the room*
 
The Oldman said:
And thus...after binge-ing through the quest for a whole week. I can finally join in.
...I don't know what the hell to say right now though, so I'll just wait till the next vote comes up...
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Welcome! You're just in time.

Because this is probably one of the top most important votes for this quest ever. :V

EDIT: No pressure.
 
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Posting for general viewing:

Ugolino said:
Hmmm. Looting and overhauling the Redshirt vote a bit for a vote draft if anyone cares. Emphasis is on complete honesty, as much as possible, without breaking Mami.

[]Enjoy spending time with Mami.
[]Relax alongside her until later in the evening.
[]When the time seems right warn Mami and then put up privacy measures if she's okay with it.
-[]"Mami? Can we talk about something? Remember how before I said there were some things I...wasn't sure how to talk to you about and needed some time? I...I think I'm ready to talk about one of them now, if you want to hear it. It's...pretty important."
--[]If Mami seems worried or upset, promise that nothing Sabrina has to say changes how she feels about her, and that she won't be going anywhere unless she wants her to.
[]Start off. Stop at any point if Mami wants to interject or say anything or looks like she needs it.
[] You're sure she's noticed, but... the things you know...aren't normal. About magical girls in general and the system, and...you mentioned how many languages you can speak, with Miss Benouna. We're...pretty sure amnesia doesn't work that way, either. We can't tell her how these facts got there because we don't know. We have wild, crazy guesses and that's...it. But it's more than that.
[]We knew things, personal and sometimes random things, about Madoka and Homura and Sayaka as well, among others- both magical girls and not. It's why we were so sure Homura wasn't a bad person...and that Kyubey was. Why we had hunches sometimes. We...we knew what Sayaka's outfit would have looked like, even before she contracted. That Credens Justitiam was her song.
-[]Take a deep breath. Confess to Mami that we...we knew who she was when we first met. Or rather, we had some facts about her inside our head, from the moment we woke up in that alleyway. We knew her name. Her outfit. Things about her past. What her apartment looked like, but not where it was. About her wish...and what happened with Kyoko before. That she was a kind, caring, wonderful person who deserved better. Who deserves better.
-[]We just had all this knowledge inside our head. We didn't really know her at first. Just things about her. It was...strange, in a good way, getting to know her for who she was rather than just about her. Things like that she wasn't a morning person, or that she played games some times, or that she had been in the archery club...and cared about Chie. But we found she was even more wonderful than you had thought. Kinder. Caring about others. Even something as little as that her cakes tasted better than you'd thought. And you found that you liked it here-liked her. That we wanted to stay with her, not because we woke up without memories of our own or just because we wanted to help, but because she was Mami.
-[]We're...we're sorry it took us this long to tell her about this. At first, we were worried about making a good impression and scared about Kyubey finding out, but...afterwards...We should have found time- made time- and told her sooner, we shouldn't have hid it. But we weren't sure how to tell her, and we were scared of hurting her by telling her the truth. That she wouldn't like us anymore... but none of that's an an excuse. She deserves to know the truth, and we should have told her sooner.
[]Flat out beg for her forgiveness, if she's willing to give it.

Yeah, it's long, especially for a draft, but this is the metabomb. It cuts off at any point if Mami reacts beyond nodding.

I'm not convinced it'll make it to the end, but it should be okay at any given cutoff point.
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I actually like Ugo's edit quite a lot.

...

[x] Ugolino

He gets votes even beyond the grave. :V
 
Onmur said:
redshirtlino said:
-[]Take a deep breath. Confess to Mami
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:o
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:rofl:

Honestly, some parts of my vote almost sound like we might be about to, but I think that works in our favor. If she's worrying about that, she won't start panicking and thinking that this is the "I'm leaving you" talk. Saves us from having to constant reiterate that we're not abandoning her.
 
As one who skips 99% of the discussion and just pops in when there's an update, I'm compelled to ask..... where the fuck did "Kwijibo" come from?!
 
EvaUnit01 said:
As one who skips 99% of the discussion and just pops in when there's an update, I'm compelled to ask..... where the fuck did "Kwijibo" come from?!
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Originally? Some goofy internet meme on... I want to say 4chan? (Ninja'd. Torg confirms that it was 4chan.) I think it's a deliberate mangling of "Kamijou", his surname. People started using it in the thread and thus, it is now infecting Sabrina's brain.
 
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