Exactly. She could have the power of "reality and illusion" or something like that. At any rate, her wish was that people would listen to the words that her father believed in, but which the Church considered to be lies, so magic related to truth/lies would make sense.
Sayaka doesn't appear to have special* injury-causing powers (or I assume she would have been using them on witches), even though her wish was related to injuries and healing.

Also, Kyouko's gotten plenty of face time across the franchise and there is not, to my knowledge, any indication ever that she can tell when people are lying.

*As in, more than just the power to hit things with swords real good.
No, that's... How... That's absurd! How would that even work? Are we supposed to take all the emergency buttons, every contingency plan and every last resort and use them as first resort, then?

Even if you could do that (the nerve), if Plan B were Plan A, then what would be Plan A? Plan C?

That's terrible. You're terrible. Please don't bring this up again.
Just change them to numbered plans instead of lettered ones. That way we aren't limited to twenty-six of them.
In 2011, that doesn't get you Vancian casting. Especially since the company name is "Wizards of the Coast".
Eh, Kyubey seems to be good about giving you what you meant when you said that wish, even if you phrase it all weird.
 
You brought this up again. I am destroyed. You can't see me, but I'm melting right now.

... Why would we need 27 plans?
You type very well for someone melting. I'm impressed.

DracoDrakul didn't bring it up again, so you should be fine.

We need 27 plans in case we end up fighting the Juggernaut while he's got an Asgardian hammer. You never know.
 
You type very well for someone melting. I'm impressed.

DracoDrakul didn't bring it up again, so you should be fine.

We need 27 plans in case we end up fighting the Juggernaut while he's got an Asgardian hammer. You never know.
And I'm amazed by the fact that you gave me a convincing answer to such an absurd question.

(Also, I melt starting from my feet and up, so I had just enough time to type before I fell from my chair.)
 
I was actually joking, but does anybody else think it would be a good idea to make a habit of hugging Homura everytime before timestop ends?

Getting Homura used to hugs, hopefully getting her to expect them, want the physical reassurance.

Timestop is the best... time place for it, being Homura's sanctuary/special World away from the World.

Thoughts?
 
I was actually joking, but does anybody else think it would be a good idea to make a habit of hugging Homura everytime before timestop ends?

Getting Homura used to hugs, hopefully getting her to expect them, want the physical reassurance.

Timestop is the best... time place for it, being Homura's sanctuary/special World away from the World.

Thoughts?
This does seem like it could help, but I would like to hug her out of timestop as well, just to get some semblance of normalcy.
 
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I found the Final Boss.

All incarnations of Madoka are particulaly weak against this enemy, which is why her wish didn't give her the power to fight the enemy herself, but created Sabrina to do her work instead.

GREEN HAIR IS THE DANGER
 
I was actually joking, but does anybody else think it would be a good idea to make a habit of hugging Homura everytime before timestop ends?

Getting Homura used to hugs, hopefully getting her to expect them, want the physical reassurance.

Timestop is the best... time place for it, being Homura's sanctuary/special World away from the World.

Thoughts?
And then we die and Homura is traumatized every time she uses timestop henceforth.

A nice gesture with potentially nasty backslash if the quest ends, really.
 
And then we die and Homura is traumatized every time she uses timestop henceforth.

A nice gesture with potentially nasty backslash if the quest ends, really.
Things are generally bad if we Bad End, yes. As things stand already, I could see Homura not making it through the next loop if we Bad End. We're really getting her hopes up, taking away her coping mechanism.

And hey, if we Bad End in a Rebellion way, Homura-turned-Homucifer might keep us around just because she can't stand not getting hugs once every timestop, and we can continue hug therapy after Bad Ending. :p
 
So, uh, reading through the 1400s some folks came up with the idea of spreading cleansed seeds through trade. (My reactions included 'No! That's silly!' and 'Why do you hate the muggles?') Hopefully the last 700 pages won't make this completely pointless. Or, perhaps worse, redundant.

This doesn't really touch the 'restoring meguka from grief seed' topic; as soon as that gets anywhere near viable it completely changes the calculus for everything we're willing to do and for grief seeds.
I confess, I came up with this while reading through the Sendai negotiations. The goals:
  1. Get lots of extra soul gem cleanses out into the wild.
  2. Ensure few grief seeds are fed to Kyubey.
  3. Do as little actual work as possible, because this is going to be boring as hell on-screen.
The process is simple enough:
  • Trade full seeds for refreshed ones at a 3:2 or lower ratio. The point is, after the trade, we end up with more seeds, but they're useless to anybody who isn't a griefbender.
  • Restore any seeds we bring in this way.
  • Convince everybody we trade with to pass it along to the groups they know; that is, we talk to Sendai and they offer the same deal (or even a slightly worse one; whatever it takes to motivate them) to the meguka they know in Tokyo, London, and New York. Or wherever.
  • Repeat the previous step ad nauseum; again, we want this stuff to happen off screen and it's something that helps out each group even if the intermediaries are bigger jerks than they have to be.
  • We'll end up with a growing stockpile of refreshed seeds we have virtually no use for. We can keep a small number for SCIENCE! and a safety net, but the rest? Absolutely no value in guarding the things; we want them to get back into the wild (see objective 1.) So we arrange for shipments of seeds to end up in the hands of meguka in need.
The important part of this whole thing from our perspective is the refreshed seeds going out. As long as that keeps happening, it's a success.

Unfortunately, information we only learned after the end of the Sendai fight means that, as written above, the plan can't work.
  1. Once you fill a seed you only have ~24 hours to dispose of it before it rehatches into a witch. Tik tok, people.
  2. Unless you have special abilities in the grief/sensor area, you can't easily tell how full a grief seed is, just whether or not it's trying to hatch. Apparently the standard meguka method is to just keep cleansing with a seed until it pings as a developing witch. This usually takes about two cleanses.
Problem 1 means you can't just keep collecting full seeds and slowly trade them towards Mitakihara as convenient. Problem 2 means you can't use any given seed more than once before having to trade it away, and every once in a while even that could trigger the seed to 'sprout.'

Worse, you now have some real pressure because you're not trading nothing for something; you're trading something for something and meguka are going to be asking themselves whether the difficulties in keeping the partially used seeds distinct from the unused seeds are even worth the marginal gains from trading, something that gets even iffier as you add links to the chain, which severely limits the reach both for getting more cleanses out to the masses and convincing them to not dispose of seeds with Kyubey.

Even worse, there's trust issues. Meguka can't be sure if a given seed is partially used (and going to be full/hatching after just one more cleanse) or actually refreshed.

SCIENCE! may have a solution.
We learned with Hildegard that it was possible to put the witch-soul at the core of the grief seed to sleep, and with Aurora confirmed that that was done by simply removing all the grief from the seed. With Oriko as a guinea pig we learned that even as a quiescent seed, Hildy was capable of cleansing a soul gem, and since it was truly empty to start with could do so many more times than a fresh-from-the-witch seed. These are all promising properties.

Downside: Normal grief seeds will cleanse quiescent ones, and considering just how much grief the quiescent ones can hold, this can encourage the normal seed to sprout in considerably less than the normal 24 hour timeframe.

Research topics:
  • How long does a quiescent seed stay quiescent if it's allowed to hold onto grief?
  • Does it depend on how much grief is in the seed? For example, can you completely fill a quiescent seed without causing it to become active?
  • How does Kyubey react to a quiescent or once-quiescent grief seed? Mostly important because accidents can and will happen, and he's far more likely to be in a position to clean things up before uberwitch (that is why nobody thinks letting witches rehatch and then killing them again is a good idea, right?) than Sabrina.
Empty grief seeds are far more useful as trade incentives than merely fresh seeds, although if adding grief wakes them up you still have the problem of normal meguka being unable to tell how many cleanses are remaining for a partially used seed. Plus, if you keep all of your supposedly quiescent seeds together, the first one that wakes up will promptly cleanse all the others it's stored with; your courier probably won't enjoy that.

As a nice side benefit, empty seeds are visually distinct from seeds with grief in them.
Without work in SCIENCE! I don't see how we can use a trade network to collect used and distribute empty/refreshed grief seeds. We either need to develop some sort of test to determine grief levels/quiescence in seeds (and it's something that doesn't require any special magic) or to discover more exactly the properties of quiescent seeds and hope they match our needs.

Otherwise, we're pretty much stuck with what Sabrina can do locally in between/during her adventures. Which is probably safer, at least with respect to Kyubey, so that's something at least.
 
Things are generally bad if we Bad End, yes. As things stand already, I could see Homura not making it through the next loop if we Bad End. We're really getting her hopes up, taking away her coping mechanism.

And hey, if we Bad End in a Rebellion way, Homura-turned-Homucifer might keep us around just because she can't stand not getting hugs once every timestop, and we can continue hug therapy after Bad Ending. :p
So, your cunning plan is to get Homura addicted to us enough that Homucifer from the future is on our side, but not enough that she can't live a month without us.

I am not sure it can work, but it might be less feathery way to social the feathers than talking to it (though it is rude to not respond).
 
So, your cunning plan is to get Homura addicted to us enough that Homucifer from the future is on our side, but not enough that she can't live a month without us.

I am not sure it can work, but it might be less feathery way to social the feathers than talking to it (though it is rude to not respond).
I think the rude thing is to communicate with us in a way that we can't answer without looking crazy(er).
 
Everybody talks about the "food" thing, but I wonder about the "lie" thing. Does Kyouko have the ability to tell when people are being honest due to the nature of her wish?

In terms of getting Mami and Kyouko back together... Obviously it's going to be difficult, and my primary objection to the picnic is that there are too many people and it lasts too long. And (as Homura says) something would probably go wrong. IMHO, a short meeting with just a few people (i.e. Mami and Kyouko, with Sabrina and Yuma to help things running smoothly) would be best. Obviously the meeting should be planned ahead of time so that neither of them is surprised about it and ideally it should be done as part of the normal order of things so that it doesn't look like we're trying to force them together. That's why I think we should bring Mami with us on the cleansing trip this weekend (which we should do anyway) and visit Kyouko and Yuma as one of the stops. We do need to keep Kyouko and Yuma cleansed, and visiting them this weekend along with everyone else does make sense.
Quote possibly. Or Homura could simply have meant that, if Kyouko detects or just suspects a lie (to her or to oneself), she reacts very negatively. Of course, they aren't mutually exclusive at all.

As for the cleansing trip approach...I like it. So long as we inform both parties ahead of time (and give them a chance to object, if need be--Mami will obviously be reluctant to the idea, but it would work so long as we reassured her of our presence and Kyouko's own acceptance [which means we'd need to ask Kyouko first] while also explicitly telling her that it is entirely her choice and wouldn't be a good idea if she didn't actually want to do it), it could work.
 
@Onmur: Hum. Mmmaybe, but aren't you the first to bring worry about looking crazy on this? I certainly am not (worrying), no; rather, small bits of it I like to embrace: be they to mess with Sendai or try to confuse Oriko.

Besides, it'll make sense in retrospect, which is more than what you about a lot of crazy-looking things.
 
So, your cunning plan is to get Homura addicted to us enough that Homucifer from the future is on our side, but not enough that she can't live a month without us.

I am not sure it can work, but it might be less feathery way to social the feathers than talking to it (though it is rude to not respond).
I mean, I'm not very worried about the consequences of us losing, short term? We lose, that's enough consequence for me. It's not like we get a second loop. I see no problem with hugging Homura and giving her happy memories. You can't gain anything if you're so afraid of losing it that you avoid the risk entirely.
 
I mean, I'm not very worried about the consequences of us losing, short term? We lose, that's enough consequence for me. It's not like we get a second loop. I see no problem with hugging Homura and giving her happy memories. You can't gain anything if you're so afraid of losing it that you avoid the risk entirely.
I completely agree Gadjo, we must do our best to end the quest well, or the universe is screwed. This is a good enough reason to try our hardest to survive.
 
I mean, I'm not very worried about the consequences of us losing, short term? We lose, that's enough consequence for me. It's not like we get a second loop. I see no problem with hugging Homura and giving her happy memories. You can't gain anything if you're so afraid of losing it that you avoid the risk entirely.
True, but there's a difference between not gaining something by accepting a risk to acquire it and choosing not to take the risk of acquiring something because losing it would be the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

EDIT: To clarify, my approach with Homura is to not push too hard until after WPN is dead and gone and everyone is safe. Because by that point, Homura's resistance to change and hope will crumble entirely on their own, and it'll be the evident proof for her that she isn't stuck in the loops anymore (or even at risk of looping again).
 
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@Onmur: Hum. Mmmaybe, but aren't you the first to bring worry about looking crazy on this? I certainly am not (worrying), no; rather, small bits of it I like to embrace: be they to mess with Sendai or try to confuse Oriko.

Besides, it'll make sense in retrospect, which is more than what you about a lot of crazy-looking things.
[Suddenly serious]

Considering our earlier conversation with Homura and Mami, I think 'looking crazy' would be dangerous in and of itself, since it would lose us trust from them. Saying 'this is what I've been telling you all along' doesn't really help if we die because our friends couldn't trust us enough to work with us.

Scatterbrainedness is fine. Fun all aroud, even Homura can find it amusing.

Acknowledging we might be paranoid is fine, as we've done two updates ago.

Actually having our friends think we might be crazy is not. The feathers conversation after Elsa Maria shows that if Feather wanted to hurt us, they didn't need to buff up the Witch we were gonna fight; we came out of that clusterfuck with suspicions cast on us. Sabrina's been acknowledged as a potential cause for the feathers/time divergence shenanigans.

To compound on that, the earlier conversation with Mami before Barrier shenanigans kind of sucked away all the fun of the 'Sabrina is a Witch' jokes for a while, what with Mami seemingly considering the similarities between Sabrina and Witches in general.

Really, to me it's looking like Feather is gonna grind us down from within, seeding doubt and trying to separate us from our friends, rather than descend from up high to smack us down in person.
 
Things are generally bad if we Bad End, yes. As things stand already, I could see Homura not making it through the next loop if we Bad End. We're really getting her hopes up, taking away her coping mechanism.

And hey, if we Bad End in a Rebellion way, Homura-turned-Homucifer might keep us around just because she can't stand not getting hugs once every timestop, and we can continue hug therapy after Bad Ending. :p
Relevant omakes.
Special Page 666 omake:

---

"Madoka...if it's for you, I will become the Devil itself. Nothing in this world will be allowed to disturb your happiness. I will destroy reason itself to--Sabrina, do you have to eat so loudly?"

"Doritos are good, man. But hey, I'm actually curious: Why didn't you wipe my memory with anyone else? I mean, besides my existing brain damage?"

"...Sabrina, can you control Love the same way you control Grief?"

"Probably not. I'll Science it for sure later though. Why?"

"...Do you think what I'm doing is wrong?"

"Uh. Objectively, I can't say. Like what all did you do, even? I mean Project 'Happy Normal Madoka' is something I can get behind but I'm pretty sure this can have huge cosmic repercussions or something. My knowledge doesn't extend that far, though."

"I see...Sabrina, I--

"You don't have to be alone, Homura. If you take one thing to heart, it's this. I'm sure everyone will understand, so...don't lock them all out with this mysterious devil chic thing. No matter what, I'm your ally." ... "...Oh no, what's wrong? Homura, don't resist the hug, friendship is-"

"You're getting Dorito dust all over my hair."

"Oh uh. Sorry. Grief shampoo coming right up!"

"Sabrina no--!"

It was a new world. A better world. A world without fighting. A world without sacrificing. A world had nothing to grieve for, and so was denied the pain of having to remember it.

Yes, Sakura might not understand how things changed, but right now, in this moment, things are--

Her phone is beeping. An unknown number. "Uh. Hello?"

"Hey, Sakura?" An unfamiliar voice. "FUCK YOUUUUUUU" Click.

"What the fuck?"

---

"Are you satisfied now, Sabrina?"

"Yea, Homura, thanks. Doritos?"

"..."

"It's Cool Ranch."

"..." Homura takes one.
 
It is always harder to defend against attacks on the psyche, then it is against a physical assault. Even worse is the difficulty of trying to defend against both at the same time.
 
True, but there's a difference between not gaining something by accepting a risk to acquire it and choosing not to take the risk of acquiring something because losing it would be the final straw that breaks the camel's back.
Well, I mean that the consequence in question would be something we'd never see. We'd be dead if that consequence came to pass, so I'm reeeaalllly not that shy about any risk that only comes back to bite us when we're already dead.
 
So, to defend against feathers, we need to bond with our friends?
[Power of Friendship Intensifies]
[Magical Girl: Reconstruction!?]
 
Well, I mean that the consequence in question would be something we'd never see. We'd be dead if that consequence came to pass, so I'm reeeaalllly not that shy about any risk that only comes back to bite us when we're already dead.
Us being dead is the worst case scenario, so who knows what disasters this could bring.
 
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