NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

[Shard]

I mean, I doubt he has Fine level livestock at all, getting those was portrayed as an event, but I could be wrong. The ram is vastly better than a sheep no matter what though just because in a worst case scenario he can sell it for literally four times as much as one of the sheep of the same quality. It also means we're giving him a full breeding population even if he has no sheep to start with, which is solid. Like, it's only not a great gift if he already has a Fine or higher quality Ram of his own and even then it's a valuable beast for him to sell or gift away in turn.

Speaking of which, his son is also marrying our sister in less than a year and thus setting up his own household, I think...so there's a non-zero chance that he keeps it even if he already has another Fine Ram and gives it (and the other sheep we're giving him) to his son as part of the marriage gifts (like we got a pair of cattle), helping Jordan and Asva's household get set up (which we'd certainly be happy about).

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Reasonable points.

Quality-wise, Basic is as low as it gets, so I don't think we get a lot from sacrificing it (we were told Quality is what mattered there...I feel like even Decent is a little marginal on the sacrifice front honestly), and with only +1 success per turn, a Basic Ox, unlike a Decent one or above, barely pays for its own Fodder (in practice, its +6 successes net between 4 and 8 Fodder depending on details and it consumes 6)...I don't think that's worth it (for us or anyone else). +12 Food isn't super necessary, but the fact it expands our effective Food Storage from 75 to 87 makes it worth doing.

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Personally I think we could afford to sacrifice the Fine Sheep we have (also I don't like Sheep for a variety of reasons, mainly the Management dice cost to get their full potential), even potentially the Superior Cow that we just this year. At our level, a Superior Cow is basically 2 Fine Cows, and most critically, it's the best possible animal we can sacrifice, which may merit extra points from the Gods. Also, since future animal quality is dependent on the Bull, not the Cow, future potential isn't actually scrunched.

I should probably math the opportunity cost for each sacrifice option to determine the optimal. But if we get loads of Hamingja from sacrificing a Superior Cow we should seriously consider it even with the very high cost.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

I see your point, I agree that it could certainly go different ways.

My thoughts on it were that Halla recognizes that this would be nid, but she doesn't care as much about how long-dead distant foreigners are behaving, and recognizes that this is an extremely valuable sacrifice that might correspond to great power. It's one of the quest themes that diverges a bit from RL history.

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Fair, I suppose. I think her thinking of it as nid would at least bear a mention, though.

My own research gives me the impression that the nature and extent of human sacrifice among the historical Norse is unclear and disputed, so I plead artistic license. The Trelleborg site looks like it might have featured child sacrifice.

It's exceptional, but so is Abraham's story.

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The Trelleborg site is basically the only evidence of child sacrifice as I understand it, but note that I didn't say that they wouldn't kill children. I said that, at least based on all the evidence we have, the killed either criminals or slaves...and the children of slaves were also slaves. I'm not saying the Norse were above child sacrifice (though with only one site, I do think it was more the exception than the rule), I said that sacrificing their own families would be abhorrent to them, which I think is probably correct given their attitude towards kinslaying in general.

Like, being sacrificed to the Gods was not an honor from what we can tell, they saw it, like any other killing, as something you did to people you didn't like or didn't care about.

Personally I think we could afford to sacrifice the Fine Sheep we have (also I don't like Sheep for a variety of reasons, mainly the Management dice cost to get their full potential),

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Our Fine Sheep have made us, in four turns, about 50 silver in additional sheep and cloth and will make significantly more over the course of a full year. They're our biggest money-maker by a fair bit (Cattle are second with sellable cattle, and may even be first some years if we roll well, but that's a lot more variable because bulls sell for so much more than cows and we get fewer chances every year). We honestly don't need the dice for anything else over the Winter and, once we upgrade our Wood Axe, won't be needing to spend as many to take full advantage anyway (that'll be 5 a turn from the axe alone in all likelihood, making up to 5 sheep effectively have no dice cost at all).

Dropping a couple if we can't feed our full number of animals would make sense (dropping two animals means one less field needed per year), or replacing them with cows once we have more Fine Cows available...but I'm pretty sure we can feed everything, and don't see a reason to ditch any at the moment.

If we roll two or three more Fine or Superior Cows (maybe even Good Cows, honestly) over the next year, we would almost certainly replace two or three ewes there...replacing sheep with cows we'd definitely go down as low as a Ram and 5 Ewes, maybe even a Ram and 4 Ewes, we just don't have the quality cattle to do that right now and have no need to buy them when we're breeding them ourselves over the next few years.

even potentially the Superior Cow that we just this year. At our level, a Superior Cow is basically 2 Fine Cows, and most critically, it's the best possible animal we can sacrifice, which may merit extra points from the Gods. Also, since future animal quality is dependent on the Bull, not the Cow, future potential isn't actually scrunched.

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The excess food from a Superior Cow allows us to continue sacrificing Food for Hamingja and giving to charity for Drengskapr despite ditching half of our chickens and our Food Consumption likely jumping to 10 from all the babies. It's honestly very good. The Food/Fodder ratio being doubled is also very good given how marginal our ability is to get the needed Fodder per year (ie: we can probably do it, but it isn't a completely sure thing and becomes dicey if we add more animals on top of the ones we've got).

I should probably math the opportunity cost for each sacrifice option to determine the optimal. But if we get loads of Hamingja from sacrificing a Superior Cow we should seriously consider it even with the very high cost.

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We can't math that out because we have literally no idea what sacrificing animals even does. That's one reason I'm maybe being a little conservative with it this year...we have literally no insight into its effects. Like, I imagine it's good, but how good? Additionally, we'll probably be giving fewer gifts next year, which will let us go heavier on sacrifice without diminishing our current crop of animals.

 

[Exmorri]

Fair, I suppose. I think her thinking of it as nid would at least bear a mention, though.

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Added: "Does Abraham still get nid for trying to kill his own son?" to Halla's questions. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[TheCount]

"That was probably one of the hardest births I've seen," the Matron says as her dour expression stands resolute on her wizened face. She cracks her neck as she rises to her feet and makes her way to the door, her body laden with wrinkles and dense slabs of well-used muscle.

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....Halls would have died without harm at least at 4, didn't she?
By the gods, if the matron, who has been doing it for around 65-is years says that, I am morbidly curious what was the hardest, so far.....

are we a step back from where we were? Or are we mostly just completely missing a key point?

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I mean, we could try waving in orthstirr in with our aspects too.... But we only know that frami makes orthstirr in tricks hungry....

You're trying to build a house without a foundation. That's all I'll say

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Ah.... So aspect weaving is past step one of the original Norse cultivation, huh?

None of the above.

Here's a freebie; things don't hit as hard when you're ready for it

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....
I see it's already decided we do it again, makes sense.
Perhaps we should try to develop a rite/meditation or something to get into the right state? Like, breathing exercises crop up fairly commonly everywhere. Like, something like this?
Breath in, open the gate. Hold, let the Ord flow. Breath out, close the gate. Hold, rest.

I can't find any good references, but there are supposed to be cock crows at Ragnarok, so maybe Heimdall? Would that work? We could definitely use his help as a watchman and foe of Loki's trickery given our particular enemy.

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... Iirc, it was mentioned earlier by IF that people pray to Loki to not get noticed by him, to placate him ....
Could we offer him sacrifice to trick the enemy? Or to help avoid other's traps?
Food for thought....

--[X] Train Campfire Trick for cleansing poisons and diseases 4d6 (2d6)

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Thank you for including this one!
Would be fun if it's usable for cleaning up after a spar too (I just love mundane utility of super powers)

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

... Iirc, it was mentioned earlier by IF that people pray to Loki to not get noticed by him, to placate him ....
Could we offer him sacrifice to trick the enemy? Or to help avoid other's traps?
Food for thought....

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I'd rather not sacrifice to Loki if we have other options, and Heimdall to avoid traps and Odin for clever battle-tricks are both available options.

Thank you for including this one!
Would be fun if it's usable for cleaning up after a spar too (I just love mundane utility of super powers)

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Oh, that one's always been on the intended list, it just took us quite a while to complete Campfire (even in-universe it's been most of a year...we started before we got pregnant). What we want from Campfire is primarily its conceptual protective/cleansing side as that seems to be what it's best suited to that we aren't already equipped with.

 

[Constenanto]

[X] Asgeirr (Boy 1)
[X] Sigurdr (Boy 2)
[X] Eyvor (Girl)
[X] Give it to Boy 2

[X] Plan Lots Of Gifts

 

[Alectai]

Yeah, even if you can learn Campfire from being taught it, it's still a big XP sink.

Probably good utility though!

 

[I.F. Ister]

Apocrypha: Jerasmus's Bible Study (Abraham)

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Very cool, thank you!

2 reward dice!

"Oooh, we can use this to double-dip on sacrifices and get favor from two gods for the price of one. Set up a sacrifice to the Christian god, yank it away at the last moment after getting his approval, then go through with the sacrifice to Odin."

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oh man something like that would really ruffle some feathers.

 

[Toboe]

oh man something like that would really ruffle some feathers.

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Christian God: Curses thread
Odin: Needs a minute to stop laughing at CG to be able to bless us

 

[Bass11]

If we're skipping a step in creating Odr could it be we're thinking of Vrithing as a thread when instead we should be thinking of it wool? To properly make cloth I guess from wool, from my research we first dye wool, then we turn it into threads or yarn, then we use a loom to properly make it into cloth. If Saemd is the dye does that make Frami the loom?
I mean there are other steps to turn wool into thread or yarn but I cut it down.

 

[Shard]

I think we're not supposed to do anything with our Aspects. At first.

I think that combining all three Aspects is in fact skipping ahead.

But I'm not sure what the proper Foundation is actually supposed to be.

Maybe we're supposed to use our 'External' Orthsirr to build a Foundation upon which we can use our 'Internal' Aspected Orthsirr to draw Odr from.

Like a 'Trick', but 'inward' facing.

Isn't it weird that most 'Tricks' can be reduce to '0' Orthsirr Cost, after all?

..........

Okay, what if, it's literally, Reinforce. Or something similar. We are supposed to use an internal variant of Reinforce-Trick before tying our Aspects together.

Can we use Reinforce-Trick on the Gate?

Can we 'assign' our 'External'/'Normal' Orthsirr to 'The Gate', the way we can assign our Orthsirr to Hamr/Hugr/etc?

 

[Bass11]

Hmm, that aside we have 8 Odr do we need more Saemd, Frami, and Vrithing first? As it is we currently have 80S, 81F, and 81V. Do we need boosts our Saemd, Frami, and Vrithing to 90 in order to get 9 Odr?

 

[Shard]

Hmm, that aside we have 8 Odr do we need more Saemd, Frami, and Vrithing first? As it is we currently have 80S, 81F, and 81V. Do we need boosts our Saemd, Frami, and Vrithing to 90 in order to get 9 Odr?

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If my 'divide by 9' theory is correct, 1 extra Orthsirr would let us get 9 Odr.

 

[Bass11]

If my 'divide by 9' theory is correct, 1 extra Orthsirr would let us get 9 Odr.

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One more Saemd you mean? Nvm.

 

[Shard]

One more Saemd you mean?

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Yep.

 

[KreenWarrior]

Well, one issue is arguably our Well. Right now it's just... a crater. Maybe we're supposed to shape or refine it first? No idea how one would go about that. Or maybe in the future we're supposed to dig it out rather than let it be blasted open with the first opening of the Gate.

 

[Shard]

You're trying to build a house without a foundation. That's all I'll say

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None of the above.

Here's a freebie; things don't hit as hard when you're ready for it

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Here's my opinion:

Virthing by itself is skipping a step.
Virthing + Samed is a correct step.
Virthing + Saemd + Frami is also correct step.

However. My opinion is: The issue is that we're missing the step that goes from ??? -> Virthing. I do not believe that the correct answer is 'get people to just wake you up'.

As in, we're supposed to do ???, then add Virthing, then add Saemd, then add Frami. This would be the 'correct' cultivation method. Without the crucial ??? step, you die. Because you've just built a house without a foundation.

Whatever ??? is, I believe that it will either:

1. Prevent the threads from unravelling at the end of the Aspect Fusion process.
2. Prevent cultivator from going KO during the Odr tapping process.
3. Close the Gate despite 1/2 occurring.

Here are my proposals for '???'

1. Fylgja. We are supposed to manifest Fylgja (Our Soul), then add Virthing to our Fylgja, then add Saemd, then add Frami. Our Fylgja cultivates, and since the Fylgja is us, we also cultivate. We can stay conscious while the Fylgja is unconscious, or vice-verse. This IMO does not tie in with the QM-hint though, so I am discarding this idea. The Fylgja is not actually providing a 'Foundation'.
2. Reinforce-Trick/Reinforce-Gate-Equivalent. We are supposed to use our native Orthsirr to 'reinforce' our soulscape (or our Aspects, or the Gate) before conducting the Aspect fusion process. This may quality as a technique, however, as Reinforce is a Trick, and not something Norsemen natively know.
3. Orthsirr-Aspect Reinforcement. We are supposed to be at full orthsirr, and then use our Orthsirr to '''reinforce''' our Aspects, the same way we allocate Orthsirr to our base attributes.
4. Empty Orthsirr. We are supposed to manifest Aspects, then after they are folded in, 'eliminate' our 'External' Orthsirr. After that we weave the Aspects together as normal in our 'Empty' Orthsirr space. In this case, the 'woven' threefold Aspect will, after drawing Odr from the gate, with then 'harmlessly' drain into our 'External' Orthsirr reserves. I like this idea, as it doesn't actually require a technique.
5. Extend the idea of 'Stoking Orthsirr' to the soulscape??? Stoke things *other* than Orthsirr, to be exact.

My general opinion on '???'

1. It's likely an 'easy' step once we figure it out, akin to 'Just manifest Virthing, then Saemd, etc'.
2. It's likely counterintuitive. I suspect The Enemy have likely gotten rid of '???' as the step, so that people die when taking the obvious trifold Aspect step.

e: Also we should get a follow up on this from Steinarr:

If you know what you're looking for, that is. I'll teach you how to, some time."

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[TheCount]

...I can't believe it took so long but.....

Can we convert Orthstirr into Ord? Like, funnel some into a mote of Ord in our hand or something.
Also, what happens when the two powers interact?
And I do not mean the aspects, but pure orthstirr

 

[Shard]

But even as patient as virthing and saemd may be, it simply lacks the staying power of... of something.

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Here's something worth noting. I found this while looking back.

That 'something' that Virthing and Saemd is missing is not Frami.

Having looked back at our previous Aspect research, I believe we can likely conclude that the 'something' that Virthing and Saemd requires will give them a lot of staying power. And with that staying power, adding Frami will let Odr pour through.. without the thread unravelling.

Is there a 'fourth' aspect that needs to be stoked?
Is this related to our 'regular' Orthsirr, which actually has a lot of 'staying' power compared to our 'Aspected' Orthsirr?
Could this thing that has 'staying' power be the 'source' of our Orthsirr?

E: We've 'always' know that our Aspects provide a 'brief' boost in power. Do we have anything that provides more than just a 'brief' boost in power?

The more I think about it. The more I think we need to use our 'regular' Orthsirr in addition to our Aspected Orthsirr somehow.

 

[Toboe]

Can we get Aki, then:

1. Try the steps we took to cultivate but stop before we get to actually opening the gate (i.e. before we needed Blackhand to save us)
2. See if Aki can remember what we did.
3. Teach Aki the steps before opening the gate, making it extremely clear that opening it is very likely to kill him (so he shouldn't go that far)
4. Repeat (1) and see If he can remember what we did better now.

?
Could be helpfull data in how the forced forgetting works.

 

[Shard]

Guys, do we know why our Regular Orthsirr lasts so long?

To be clear, I am strongly of the opinion that the current idea that we just need a community to help us out (to cultivate properly), is wrong. The correct answer will enable the thread of Virthing/Saemd/Frami to stay stable even while Odr is flowing through it. I strongly believe that if we can figure out the missing step, it will enable Virthing and Saemd to stay stable for extended periods of time as a successful 'test'.

Actually.

I think that what we need is a state analogous to the Christian 'Focus'. In particular what it represents mentally.

---Doublepost---

Alright, here's my opinion of the correct steps we need to do to cultivate properly:

1. Acquire a state of mind or status equivalent to being in 'Focus' (as in the Christian Cultivation meaning of Focus, where you get a constant supply of Fervor simply for being in Focus.)
a. This may require weird arrangements of Orthsirr to achieve. Or weird stuff. Somehow.
b. Potential Test: We should be able to endure damage without actually taking damage. Ask someone to throw a rock at us. Let it hit, and see if we can sustain '0' damage.
2. Manifest Virthing, potentially weave it.
3. Manifest Saemd, potentially weave it.
4. Check: We should be able to maintain Virthing and Saemd for substantially longer than 6 hours.
5. Add Frami to Virthing + Saemd.
6. We should remain conscious during the Odr tapping process. Our Aspect Thread should last substantially longer than 1 hour, as well.

Some ways of figuring out how to acquire a state of 'Focus':

1. Spar with Gabriel, but deliberately let him establish his Focus after breaking it. This may require throwing the fight.
2. Ask Gabriel as to how he gets into such a focused state of mind.

My belief as to why 'Focus' is the answer:

As long as Halla maintains her focus, she can maintain her hold on her Aspects.

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None of the above.

Here's a freebie; things don't hit as hard when you're ready for it

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You guys remember what Focus does for Christian Cultivators?

That's right, provide Fervor (Orthsirr equivalent) regeneration and also absorbs damage. Things indeed don't hit as hard!

If Halla can achieve a state of 'Focus', she should also be able to maintain her hold on her aspects indefinitely!

---

Now we just need to figure out the Norse equivalent to 'Focus'.

I have no idea how we do that. Although I don't think we need strict attributes to achieve it.

GL HF guys, I'm off to figure out other stuff.

Edit: Other relevant quotes

I'll call the vote in two hours. I forgot that today is Saturday, so I'm free for the entire day. Also, I'm super hyped to write the next round

One thing to keep clear is that Focus isn't orthstirr's counterpart. I don't think that it's being confused for Christian Cultivation's Power, but I just want to make that clear.

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'Knights are one of the greatest foes any Norseman can hope to face. Fortunately, this is not a Knight, this is a Squire. Their strengths lie in their replenishing supply of power and the vast depths of their continuous combat training, but if you are able to break their Focus, then they are little more than livestock lead to the slaughter. Going for a sprint will result in you meeting the full weight of their power while attrition will lead to a slow and painful death. You must strike a steady balance if you hope to win, press him hard, but don't exhaust yourself doing so.'

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EDIT EDIT:
@Imperial Fister I would like to spend one of my 1d6 Reward Dice to confirm - or disprove - my theory that 'Focus', or the Norse equivalent if there is one, is the foundational basis that was missing from us when we were playing with our Aspects and trying to cultivate.

(I am like 99.99% sure that Focus is indeed the correct answer, so I think this would be a very efficient use of Reward Dice, since it would save up research dice in the current plan right now if this is indeed the case. Plus I think we might actually risk injury or worse with the research idea as is. So I want to avoid it. )

 

[I.F. Ister]

@Imperial Fister I would like to spend one of my 1d6 Reward Dice to confirm - or disprove - my theory that 'Focus', or the Norse equivalent if there is one, is the foundational basis that was missing from us when we were playing with our Aspects and trying to cultivate.

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Something akin to 'Focus' is involved with Norse Cultivation… but it isn't something you are missing.

8 Odr

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You currently have 6

0~0~0

I'll call voting in an hour and a half, so vote while you can!

 

[Shard]

So guys, any thoughts on how we can acquire that state of 'Norse Focus'? It's not something we are missing, so if we can figure out what it is, then we can get a full cultivation method out within this turn. It's at least info that the current route isn't correct, at least.

... Is it Memory? Memory is forever. Do we need to hold a specific memory? Wait. Muna is memory!

 

[I.F. Ister]

To clarify, you're not missing it because you already have it.

 

[KreenWarrior]

Huh. Mechanically, Focus seems to function as a sort of ablative (regenerating?) armor. We know very little about what it looks like from the inside, though. I assumed some sort of heightened mental state based on the name. Not sure what we have that's equivalent. 🤔 Do we have it and not realize it?