I mean, we don't get enough Odr for me, at least, to ever be willing to spend 27 on it, and we can casually do 9 without delaying the Hugr Infusion if we really want.

Honestly, if all it does is give it a bigger Orthstirr pool in use, I'm reluctant to spend more than one...Asva doesn't need a huge pool while weaving or cooking, and won't have the tools at other times. So it would a huge investment for something that's basically useless to her. Like giving someone a golden set of cookware when they just want a functional set.

Like, we only spent 1 Odr on a gift to Stigr for saving our children's lives. I'm not convinced we should spend more than that on a wedding present, especially when it won't even be useful.
I disagreed with only spending 1 Odr for the Wanderlust upgrade, for the record. I wanted 9.
... Better save that for something else.

A farm animal would be better I think, this is a domestic set of tools after all.
Do we have a really, really, really good quality Cow to sacrifice, in that case?

Or have retroactively or already sacrificed, as the case may be.
 
Thematically compatible bone ash to the relevant item at hand is a pretty cool mechanic honestly.

Makes me wonder if sea serpent bone ash would be really compatible with Sagaseeker because it has electricity and sea monsters tend to attack when it's storming with lightning in various tales.
 
Do we have a really, really, really good quality Cow to sacrifice, in that case?

Or have retroactively or already sacrificed, as the case may be.

I'm not even sure what farm animal is thematically on point? I'm down with using some if somebody thinks there's something appropriate. Would a cow work? That seems wrong to me, but might be correct for Norse culture.
 
I'm not even sure what farm animal is thematically on point? I'm down with using some if somebody thinks there's something appropriate. Would a cow work? That seems wrong to me, but might be correct for Norse culture.
A sheep might be thematically appropriate. We should have some bone ash from the time we sacrifice a bundle of sheep to Thor.

Sheep make wool, which is appropriate for Asva being a really good seamstress, and milk, all parts of a household.
 
A sheep might be thematically appropriate. We should have some bone ash from the time we sacrifice a bundle of sheep to Thor.

Sheep make wool, which is appropriate for Asva being a really good seamstress, and milk, all parts of a household.

Alright, that makes sense to me. I added this to the plan:

Using bone ash from the most thematically appropriate animal we can arrange (probably a sheep?)
 
Alright, that makes sense to me. I added this to the plan:
I would advocate spending 9 Odr on this, and reusably burning Frami, Saemd and Virthing as well. We have more than enough Orthsirr that if we're attacked while crafting we can handle it, and we can Calm Charge our Aspects if it really comes down to it. If we do all of that we can potentially hit the really awesome success thresholds (on average Wondrous tier + Strong Item Spirit, which should make Asva very happy).

Could the Design Skill-Trick specify that overflow goes to somewhere else, like Design itself I guess?

I would advocate 1~3d on teaching Abjorn Eyetalking. We can take the needed dice away from Command.

It might be worthwhile explicating that our Fylgja will be sunbathing, as it would slow down the degrading of our Hamingja.
 
I would advocate spending 9 Odr on this, and reusably burning Frami, Saemd and Virthing as well. We have more than enough Orthsirr that if we're attacked while crafting we can handle it, and we can Calm Charge our Aspects if it really comes down to it. If we do all of that we can potentially hit the really awesome success thresholds (on average Wondrous tier + Strong Item Spirit, which should make Asva very happy).

I mean, it's probably going to be Grand Tier anyway, spending 8 Odr for +2 tiers on a single item is gonna very rarely be worth it (and realistically, they may well only provide one), and I've already explained why I think the 'better spirit' is likely not worth it on something like this. It's not about it being a gift, but about it being tools, which just don't need to provide that much Orthstirr in the first place.

Burning Aspects (temporarily) is probably fine with the Calm Charges as insurance, though, you're right. I'll add that.

Could the Design Skill-Trick specify that overflow goes to somewhere else, like Design itself I guess?

This is automatic on Skill-Tricks for the Skill they're based on.

I would advocate 1~3d on teaching Abjorn Eyetalking. We can take the needed dice away from Command.

I don't see it being that urgent. I'm on board with doing it next turn (possibly even all three dice, depending), but we need the dice in the Design Trick this turn so we can get back to our fence-making ASAP.

It might be worthwhile explicating that our Fylgja will be sunbathing, as it would slow down the degrading of our Hamingja.

I'm pretty sure discussions of what exactly is going on with the Dwarven expedition warrant their own post, and what precautions we take depends on what tools the Seeress gives us to work with (one of our actions with her is trying for a solution to this issue, after all).
 
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GabrielQuest (Silverking)
GabrielQuest

LivegirltalkingIX said:
Guys, I think it's time we had the "when do we leave?" talk.

Now, fair is fair, the "seek and destroy evil" Oath gains we got for helping to finally killing Horra were more than enough to justify sticking around for 3 years. But now that the great evil threatening Halla is gone (and with minimal chance of that family feud resurfacing), I'm afraid that we'll just be grinding the "protect your liege's demesne and family" Oath for the foreseeable future. The longer we wait, the more work we will have to do to try and reintegrate into Christendom (Knights are less likely to take on Squires as old as we are, we haven't learned any Knightly Prayers while we've been here, and our Courtly Graces stat hasn't been touched in ages).

findingwater said:
Yeah, that's been a concern for me as well. Jerasmus leaving means no more tutoring, and no clear way to mitigate any Sin that we might incur (and given that we had those Lust and Envy checks in the troll-men cave, that's going to be an ongoing concern). We haven't even sworn our Oaths yet; who knows what bonuses we've been missing out on all this time.

Oboe said:
Democratic Footer, I have to ask; how far behind the curve are we, exactly? We weren't the most promising candidate even back when Lord Highwater took us on. Micheal and Thomas have probably left us in the dust by know in terms of cultivation, let alone in social standing.

Democratic Footer said:
In terms of Prayers, yes, you have a lot of catching up to do. However, putting aside the years you were enthralled, there are quite a few benefits that you may not have realized you had working for Halla.
  • No Courtly Intrigue. Do you recall all the jostling for attention, forging allegiances of necessity, and watching out for any Dishonor attempts against you that you endured during training? Have you noticed that you haven't had to do ANY of that while you've been here? Yes, the Norse have their own petty politics, but by and large you haven't needed to invest any time and effort into playing that game. You have peers who wholeheartedly respect your strength and see no profit in bringing you low; that's rarer than you might think in Christendom.
  • Expanded Horizons. Jerasmus warned you that a common trap of young Squires who only patrol their familiar demesne is either reaching a dearth of inspiration to progress, or having rigid mindsets which are completely unprepared for anything outside of their paradigm of "how the world works". Suffice it to say, this is much less a problem for you.
  • Fundamentals. Knights have seen countless Squires who try to invest in flashy Prayers but lack any cohesive fighting style. While your lack of training options is a setback, the fundamentals that you've honed instead will serve you well no matter which path you take.
  • Combat Veteran. You've fought an immense hoard of troll-men and come out the other side. You've rescued your allies from being trampled by a Threaded Elephant. Other squires… have fought off small raids of Norsemen and still barely made it through alive. Knights may have faced challenges far beyond you, but compared to your fellow Squires, you've Seen A Few Things.
Chard said:
Okay, so we're not totally screwed in terms of coming back to Christendom, but should we have some idea of what "deadline" we should be setting for ourselves? I think we had discussed raising an objection if Halla was planning on doing another raid, but that hasn't really come up. Hmm, I wonder if our experience amongst the Norse would help us in using diplomacy to mitigate the worst of a raid against whatever Knight we join up with.

Delectai said:
Doubtful. Halla's Diplomacy with non-Norse seems to be the exception, not the rule. Don't forget, raiding isn't just how the Norse get wealth quickly, but the fighting itself also helps with their cultivation. There's too many carrots for the Norsemen to try and "peacefully dissuade" them from raiding; the only thing that works is having a really big stick.

ConstantNATO said:
So, just to clarify, even when we saw Steinarr pull out that "Trans-European" attack, we STILL didn't detect any Zeal?

Democratic Footer said:
None whatsoever; Halla's the only Norseman you've met with a Zeal equivalent. You may want to ask her about that at some point.
 
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How about we use Sagaseeker's orthstirr to create or improve Halla's armory pocket? It might be a way for Sagaseeker to cultivate Odr.
 
Come to think of it , since we know really op norsemen tend to be the ones who survive unlocking Odr normally, maybe getting to realm 2 their first time is what lets them close the gate?
 
Interlude - A Duel in a Far Off Land
Akita Katahiro's teeth chattered as bone-chilling rain mixed with the spilled blood dirtying the battlements. The battle damage his armor had suffered over the course of the battle did little to keep him dry, but at least he wasn't caught armor-less like Lord Mita or Lord Imai — may the afterlife treat them well.

Lord Nobura's third son — a traitorous dog whose name Katahiro refused to remember — glared as rain waterfalled off the brim of his helmet. His blade — a pitiful thing of only three folds — was splattered with the blood of Lord Mita's son, Juro, who had died trying to retrieve his father's body.

The traitor's armor had suffered considerable damage throughout the battle and the breastplate now bore a large, fist-sized hole over the liver — the last act of young Mita Juro. While the consumption of spirit sake healed the injury, it failed to restore his lost blood, which left the traitorous dog with a light head and uncertain footing. Drinking that sake now instead of later would be the second worst mistake he ever made — after betraying Lord Takahita, of course.

A droplet of water ran along the cutting edge of Katahiro's fine, sixteen-fold sword — the parting gift of his Teacher — and an unspoken agreement passed between loyal hound and traitor dog. The moment that droplet fell, death would have its harvest.

Time slowed to crawl as Katahiro's eyes darted from the droplet to traitor and back again. He watched his opponent's stance, how his feet were spaced and how his hands held the sword's thread-wrapped grip.

The droplet neared the sword point.

The duel played out over and over again in Katahiro's mind — just as he knew it did in the traitor's. Each flash of ghostly motions was a little different than the last. A change of posture here, a slightly altered angle there, it all had drastically different results.

The droplet balanced on the edge of life and death.

No matter how preferable an outcome may be, no Samurai worth their salt would ever believe them certain. Choice is no illusion, a man may always pick the path hidden by fallen leaves and shifted branches if he but opens his eyes.

The traitor's third greatest mistake was trusting that the droplet would fall on its own.

Katahiro's sword flicked out and the droplet joined its brothers mixing with the blood on the ground, blood that would soon be added to. Ki surged and colored his cutting edge a bright, brilliant blue. The traitor's eyes widened a fraction of a second too late as his arms moved as if pulled by a puppeteer's strings.

The traitor blocked, but it would not matter. The whimpering whine of a sickly mongrel is meaningless in the face of the strong hound's proud stride.

Akita Katahiro swung, sixteen folds met four, and the weak died.

Blood sprayed from the eviscerated liver. It trickled down Katahiro's red-stained body as one more whelp tasted the hound's bite.

0~0~0

AN: Wake the fuck up, Samurai. We've got a city to burn traitorous dog to put down.

I polished up a small segment from that earlier draft I found.
 
I mean, it's probably going to be Grand Tier anyway, spending 8 Odr for +2 tiers on a single item is gonna very rarely be worth it (and realistically, they may well only provide one), and I've already explained why I think the 'better spirit' is likely not worth it on something like this. It's not about it being a gift, but about it being tools, which just don't need to provide that much Orthstirr in the first place.

Burning Aspects (temporarily) is probably fine with the Calm Charges as insurance, though, you're right. I'll add that.
I guess it's hard to see the benefits of 'stronger spirit' (which does go beyond just an expanded Orthsirr pool), particularly since we've never actually made such a big investment before.
I don't see it being that urgent. I'm on board with doing it next turn (possibly even all three dice, depending), but we need the dice in the Design Trick this turn so we can get back to our fence-making ASAP.
I suppose.

---
Drifa was enamored by the story and reveled in the violence. She didn't have much of a response when you reached the field of ruined flowers, merely shrugging and being mildly disappointed that you didn't fight the Knight.

Poetry doesn't seem to be her thing, but since you do it, she also wants to do it.
Incidentally, has Drifa mastered Reinforce and Hone, the absolute basics of combat?

Drifa going for 'be a duplicate Halla', huh..

Maybe we should move more onto combat tricks? She does need the basic first, though. Hamr and Hugr are absolutely paramount.
 
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I guess it's hard to see the benefits of 'stronger spirit' (which does go beyond just an expanded Orthsirr pool), particularly since we've never actually made such a big investment before.

I'm just skeptical that those benefits will be wildly important on a set of tools. Particularly a set mostly being used to create temporary things (clothing, food, and so on). It feels like a vanity project that would likely go to waste in practice. That might be incorrect, but I'd rather not gamble 8 Odr on the mechanical impact being something that not only matters, but matters to a degree where it's worth not raising our Fylgja Infusion by 1 instead, y'know?

I mean, I'm sure the benefits in question are good...but are they good specifically for Asva, specifically while crafting? To a rather high degree? I'm a lot more skeptical there.


It's a neat idea, and potentially useful, but not as important to complete this turn specifically.

Incidentally, has Drifa mastered Reinforce and Hone, the absolute basics of combat?

Drifa going for 'be a duplicate Halla', huh..

Maybe we should move more onto combat tricks?

Power Chop is on the Curriculum (along with Poetry, Hone, Reinforce, Reinforce Shield, and Sidestep). We'll move on to other stuff once she knows those. I dunno exactly when that'll be...might be a little bit. We're on Turn 4 or so, so if we're providing 6 to 8 Training Dice, one in each of those 6 Tricks and the remainder in Skills, then we've got 5 more turns before she completes most of them (two more before she completes Poetry, but that die likely heads to shoring up skills or stats for the three turn remainder).
 
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Do we know Drifa's fighting style?

We can't let her go Atgeir without armor or a protection trick.

Is Sten teaching Drifa Forgefire tricks?

As things stand, Drifa is probably best on a shield/sword combo, until/unless she learns more Hugareida other than Forgefire.
 
Do we know Drifa's fighting style?

We can't let her go Atgeir without armor or a protection trick.

I think she's a bit too new to have a defined style, but shields are cheap so I imagine she has a weapon and shield, yeah. That's how Halla started off, too, after all. I suspect almost all Norse warriors at least start that way, only graduating to two handed weapons, dual wielding, or sword and spell styles once their fighting style is a lot more developed and not always even then.

Is Sten teaching Drifa Forgefire tricks?

As things stand, Drifa is probably best on a shield/sword combo, until/unless she learns more Hugareida other than Forgefire.

I imagine Sten is teaching her Forgefire stuff and crafting skills, yes. And Forgefire has some good stuff offensively...less so defensively. What she really needs if she wants a free hand is good armor, as much as anything.
 
Incidentally, has Drifa mastered Reinforce and Hone, the absolute basics of combat?
The thing about those two tricks specifically is that, while the knowledge of them isn't restricted or anything, the actual steps behind how it works is a bit... well, it's expected that you figure it out on your own. This is to evoke how the Norse actually fought in battles.

The Norse didn't really have any organized training systems. Heck, the inclusion of combat training at all in this quest could very well be a bit ahistorical — though I find that possibility very unlikely, it's true that there isn't actually any evidence that the average Norseman trained (as far as I am aware, anyways). In combat, the Norse fought half-instinctually and half-methodically. There might be some overarching plot or tactic, but the actual steps you take to get there are simply whatever feels right in that moment. A spear is thrown at you, catch it and throw it back. Someone steps forward to aim a spear at your face, dodge and take their leg. A man charges at you, drop your weapon, grapple him, and break his back over a conveniently placed rock.

Yet, they planned out where to fight somebody to give themselves the most tools possible to battle with. Rocks, of course, are the kings of combat an-

...This is turning into a bit of a ramble, my apologies.

In all actuality, there isn't actually a difference between you teaching her how to do it and just that it exists as it achieves the same result anyways, so it doesn't matter and it's semantics.

Do we know Drifa's fighting style?
Hasn't developed one yet. At the moment, it's 'hit them harder than they hit you.'
 
I'm not even sure what farm animal is thematically on point? I'm down with using some if somebody thinks there's something appropriate. Would a cow work? That seems wrong to me, but might be correct for Norse culture.
With cow fetuses and fertilized eggs counting for a fertility spell, calf boneash may have a positive thematic link with children?
Or a cow a thematic link based on cows being kept for their milk (originally meant for the cows children)? Either with kids or with providing for kids.


It's not about it being a gift, but about it being tools, which just don't need to provide that much Orthstirr in the first place.
IF confirmed that higher Odr /stronger spirit has benefits besides more Orth.
And those tools are the tools of her livelyhood like weapons are the tools of a fighters livelyhood.

Though I'd keep to 3 Odr for now.
 
With cow fetuses and fertilized eggs counting for a fertility spell, calf boneash may have a positive thematic link with children?
Or a cow a thematic link based on cows being kept for their milk (originally meant for the cows children)? Either with kids or with providing for kids.

I'm not sure the tools being linked to fertility and children would be correct? That's not really what they're for. I think the sheep suggestion is probably as right as we can arrange.

IF confirmed that higher Odr /stronger spirit has benefits besides more Orth.
And those tools are the tools of her livelyhood like weapons are the tools of a fighters livelyhood.

Though I'd keep to 3 Odr for now.

3 doesn't do anything. Or not anything notable anyway. I went back and checked and we put 3 into our armor...it did nothing beyond the usual inherent Orthstirr pool from putting in 1 and the extra two were used as bonus successes as usual on skill checks rather than contributing to any spiritual stuff. There may be breakpoints, but that apparently isn't one of them.

At 9+ we might get more than that, but we're not putting in 9.

Doing some quick math, we can get to an average of 26 successes and an extra level of quality with one more Odr (for a bonus success), so I'll add a second...I'd go to three if it were really a breakpoint, but we have very direct evidence that it isn't.
 
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