NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Shard said:
What would Sword and Standstill give?

My thought is Peacebond. Something stopping weapons from being used at all...which is really awesome if it works given how many more Hugareida-based attacks we have than most other people. It's unlikely, but worth a single research die to check some turn when our research isn't quite so packed solid.

Shard said:
I would go for Emberwind+Ignition = Firestorm or Ignition + Campfire = Wildfire, personally. For anti-army.

I don't believe we have confirmation of the former being the result of that combo, actually. But yeah, we probably go with something AoE in the long run. It's not urgent though, and we have a lot of other non-Hugareida stuff to get (all the seidr stuff we want to learn in the near future, just to start with). Making Alloys we already know how to make doesn't take research dice and there's thus basically no reason to do it until we want to start actually learning Tricks for them.

Shard said:
Getting Clearwater over the next 9 turns would be nice. Both for QoL, but also for Alloy options.

We've been told it doesn't usefully combine with Fire stuff, which make the Alloying options limited (I'm skeptical it does anything useful with weapon-based stuff or Standstill, which leaves maybe Gale). We do want it eventually, but we want a lot of things and I don't think it's super urgent.

And it's actually 12 turns (well, 12 successes) for Hugareida, at least based on Campfire.

Bass11 · Jun 25, 2023

To be fair clearwater and gale might get give us something to water our farm with easier.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
My thought is Peacebond. Something stopping weapons from being used at all...which is really awesome if it works given how many more Hugareida-based attacks we have than most other people. It's unlikely, but worth a single research die to check some turn when our research isn't quite so packed solid.

Hugareidas don't really combine 'conceptually', they (to our knowledge) combine mostly mechanistically. Standstill + Ignition/Campfire/Forgefire doesn't equal to 'Extinguish', for example (or 'Stillflame', for that matter).

I'm not sure if Peacebond is even a possible Hugareida, for that matter. A Twist, on the other hand, seems possible.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We've been told it doesn't usefully combine with Fire stuff, which make the Alloying options limited (I'm skeptical it does anything useful with weapon-based stuff or Standstill, which leaves maybe Gale). We do want it eventually, but we want a lot of things and I don't think it's super urgent.

And it's actually 12 turns (well, 12 successes) for Hugareida, at least based on Campfire.

Ah right.

Getting Abjorn Eyespeak so he can talk to Blackhand would be nice, too (plus the ability to talk privately in a crowd). I really want to see that scene written..

---

Speaking of which.. I was thinking about Ironmasks. And Steelfathers.

I was thinking.. it's highly.. suboptimal to gather and organize Orthsirr like that.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested people becoming Ironmasks for the Head of the Family, but I was thinking..

Objects persist. They're not subject to death.

What if someone became an Ironmask for a Clan, and that Clan had a clear banner? Or not even an Ironmask, just flying the flag of their clan. 'For the glory of Clan Volsung!'

Could other members of that clan (or sect, since this is a Xianxia) draw Orthsirr from the fame of that Clan? The Norse believe that everything has a spirit, and that should extend also to the idea of a Clan. Clans should have a 'Clan-Spirit'. One could create or awaken a Clan Spirit, and it could manifest in their insignia and such. Over time they would gain a large Orthsirr advantage over their competitors by being able to tap into the Clan's Glory, earned by themselves and their ancestors. The glory of one is the glory of all.

Bass11 · Jun 25, 2023

I wonder why steelfathers stop gaining orthisirr when they become one. Or at least normal steelfathers do.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Shard said:
Hugareidas don't really combine 'conceptually', they (to our knowledge) combine mostly mechanistically. Standstill + Ignition/Campfire/Forgefire doesn't equal to 'Extinguish', for example (or 'Stillflame', for that matter).

I'm not sure if Peacebond is even a possible Hugareida, for that matter. A Twist, on the other hand, seems possible.

I'm not sure I agree that it's not conceptual. You can't combine Standstill and Fire stuff because Fire cannot be still and yet remain Fire...ditto Gale. Swords can remain still and yet remain Swords. I do think it's a long shot, but it's not impossible.

Shard said:
Ah right.

Getting Abjorn Eyespeak so he can talk to Blackhand would be nice, too (plus the ability to talk privately in a croud). I really want to see that scene written..

That's on the agenda over the next two turns, yeah. We were told it required three dice and I freed up one next turn and two the turn after (barring something changing drastically).

Bass11 said:
I wonder why steelfathers stop gaining orthisirr when they become one. Or at least normal steelfathers do.

Evidence suggests it is the nature of Steel to be Unchanging. Which seems a likely reason.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm not sure I agree that it's not conceptual. You can't combine Standstill and Fire stuff because Fire cannot be still and yet remain Fire...ditto Gale. Swords can remain still and yet remain Swords. I do think it's a long shot, but it's not impossible.

I mean, even Plant + Fire = Smoke. That's something like a mechanistic(mostly) combination. The effect of Sword + Standstill should be roughly whatever you would get if you used Standstill on a sword you have, which is not very useful.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Shard said:
I mean, even Plant + Fire = Smoke. That's something like a mechanistic(mostly) combination. The effect of Sword + Standstill should be roughly whatever you would get if you used Standstill on a sword you have, which is not very useful.

I mean, it is if you can use it on other people's swords (and especially other weapons) more effectively than Standstill alone. Like I said, it's a long shot, but we'll never know if we don't try.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, it is if you can use it on other people's swords (and especially other weapons) more effectively than Standstill alone. Like I said, it's a long shot, but we'll never know if we don't try.

So long as it is below more promising research topics.

---

So the best use case I can think of right now for Fast in combat, aside from long cast time Seidr, woild be a Trick that has a long cast time, which you fold, and then in combat you dump out 3 to 5 copies of a normally unusable trick with Puncture and like 80d6 into them or something and hopefully the other person is too dead to respond.

Bass11 · Jun 25, 2023

So alpha strike tricks? Stuff to end the battle as quickly as possible or multiple defensive tricks to layer defenses.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Shard said:
So long as it is below more promising research topics.

I've put it off for something more pressing every turn since we got Sword. Like I said, it's probably a dead end, just one worth checking to make sure.

Shard said:
So the best use case I can think of right now for Fast in combat, aside from long cast time Seidr, woild be a Trick that has a long cast time, which you fold, and then in combat you dump out 3 to 5 copies of a normally unusable trick with Puncture and like 80d6 into them or something and hopefully the other person is too dead to respond.

I disagree slightly, actually. If it's really instant, the best use if to throw out an alpha strike using a lot of dice, sure, but not all the dice, you could do that without the Fast. The advantage of the Fast is that you can do that as just another attack in a round of attacks, with all your defensive Tricks still fully operational. It allows you to use what would normally be a 'put all your eggs in one basket' maneuver without actually committing that hard and having all the fallback options you would after a more normal attack.

Or at least, that's what seems to me the best usage is.

Toboe · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I don't believe we have confirmation of the former being the result of that combo, actually. But yeah, we probably go with something AoE in the long run. It's not urgent though, and we have a lot of other non-Hugareida stuff to get (all the seidr stuff we want to learn in the near future, just to start with).

It would be good to have some group fight AoE.
The dwarves now are another example where we use KS as AoE substitute.
Even just a KS variant that spreads wildfire (with the issues that being on fire/having to pass burning terrain entails for enemy) would be a neat start.
Maybe something to strenghtenexisting fires.

@Imperial Fister
Can low Seidr use Hugareida If we have them?
Specifically thinking of an extra strength cleaning Clearwater low Seid, to screw with enemy rune users.

I.F. Ister · Jun 25, 2023

Toboe said:
@Imperial Fister
Can low Seidr use Hugareida If we have them?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Toboe said:
It would be good to have some group fight AoE.
The dwarves now are another example where we use KS as AoE substitute.
Even just a KS variant that spreads wildfire (with the issues that being on fire/having to pass burning terrain entails for enemy) would be a neat start.
Maybe something to strenghtenexisting fires.

I mean, Kindle Spinner is AoE, and very effective AoE at that, hitting up to three targets at once. It's not big AoE, and we likely do want big AoE eventually, but it's not an urgent need. This fight involved us fighting four opponents simultaneously, only one more than KS can hit at once, and that's the most foes we've fought at once in a long while other than the Troll-Men (who we wreaked a lot of havoc on with Kindle Spinner alone) and Draugr (who were not a serious threat). The last before that was the Foemen, which were not actually a situation where bigger AoE would've helped a lot, and the last before that were the Christians.

We'll likely need (or at least want) to actually get big AoEs that hit a lot more people for the upcoming war arc, but we have a bit of time before that in all likelihood, and can do so in a hurry with relatively minimal dice losses if we have to (we can likely get it in a single turn for 6 dice, or over four turns for 4 dice, both due to Blackhand's doubling of the dice and Born of Fire's bonus success).

Solar Saiyan · Jun 25, 2023

Cant we just ask blackhand the possible alloys with our available hugareida? He had ALL the fire hugareida, and also Emberwind, and I wouldnt be surprised if he had Sword hugareida as well.

Hey Blackhand, what possible alloys do you know of that we can achieve with our current hugareida arsenal that we havent thought of yet? Like we already have alloyed Forgefire and Emberwind, what else is there that you can remember? Would Ignition +Emberwind do anything? Can I make alloys where one or more of the components are alloys themselves?

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Solar Saiyan said:
Cant we just ask blackhand the possible alloys with our available hugareida? He had ALL the fire hugareida, and also Emberwind, and I wouldnt be surprised if he had Sword hugareida as well.

We can ask him those, yeah. He never had Standstill and it doesn't sound like he had Gale or Atgeir, so there'll be some limits, but we can certainly ask him about the Fire options (and have, for at least some of them).

Solar Saiyan · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We can ask him those, yeah. He never had Standstill and it doesn't sound like he had Gale or Atgeir, so there'll be some limits, but we can certainly ask him about the Fire options (and have, for at least some of them).

Maybe he didnt have Gale or Atgeir, but he did have Emberwind, and possibly Sword too. We can just ask him if could get Firestorm or Wildfire by combining either Gale or Emberwind with any of Ignition or Forgefire. Also, there are the combinations with Sword that have to be considered too.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

Hey Blackhand,

What would it take for, say, Flekkr to gain Orthsirr?
Is it possible for me to cast my a Hugareida trick 'at range'? Not like, throwing a kindle-spinner, more like having a kindle-spinner form right next to my opponent from a distance before exploding.
Why does Odr burn out faster than blood burns out faster than paint on runes? Is there a way to make blood last longer?

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

Dwarven Warfare

War without warriors,
Wrought ought just victory.

Heartless and honorless,
Hateful spiteful carnage.

Flaming helpless fighting,
Feeding crisping corpses.

Maggots got no mercy,
Mind their honeyed money.

.. Halla was not going to put those words down to writing or speech. She wasn't some fool!

AN: The Dwarves are like the fantasy underound tactical version of games like Supreme Commander or Ashes of the Singularity, except the units look humanoid to hit it right on that sweeet uncanny valley spot. Well there's no picture of the actual fighting between dwarves, that would be excessively graphic, but you get the idea.

This one should be fully skaldic.. I think. 6 syllables, fully rhyming, alliteration rules upheld.. well just the stressed syllable count might trip it up.

TheCount · Jun 25, 2023

Got distracted while reading the backlog, haha....

Imperial Fister said:
In an instant, a dozen-and-a-half dwarves die as the liquid fire sprays across the bodies. The pained screams of dying, flailing dwarves echo across the battlefield as the Lurkaling backlines skid to a horrified halt.

.... would we get wildfire if we put our hand into it?

Imperial Fister said:
After this is said and done, you're not sure you want to do mercenary work for dwarves again. It's just not right, how dwarves fight. There is no honor here, no drengskapr at all.

They play for survival, after all. Take heed and learn, so you may leave an out for those you do not want to see death at any cost.

Imperial Fister said:
(60 Dwarven Coins)
(240oz of Forged Iron)
(1 Dwarven Hammer and Chisel)

...Damn, Toki, i like you as a friend and all, but you stole our spellbat!

Imperial Fister said:
The cost isn't why you store tricks in fasts. I'm not going to tell you exactly why you might want to use fasts in combat, but it can be a real game changer if done right

Its the prep/windup time, huh?

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
They probably don't take an action, happening instantly. That's quite good, but I don't think it's worth a non-shapecrafted shapeshifting slot. Not for us, anyway.

on this, just a note that the speed of the trick probably do not change, but yeah, not having to charge a laser is good.

Barracks has more steel, probably, what with the dwarves there being clad for battle with heavier armor.
Forman probably has maps and blueprints.... probably also the more valuable loot.
Storage is storage, so it can have anything from raw material to crafted items ready for sale.

[X] Go to one of the other teams
-[X] Shale, in the warehouses

Constenanto · Jun 25, 2023

TheCount said:
.... would we get wildfire if we put our hand into it?

Now that I think about it, somewhat surprised that we didn't get a muna from that.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

You know, I remember Fister saying supernatural creatures would give certain guaranteed traits. Now obviously we aren't doing it with Halla.. but you have to wonder what kind of traits that, say, an Elf or Einheri would give.

Simon_Jester · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
My thought is Peacebond. Something stopping weapons from being used at all...which is really awesome if it works given how many more Hugareida-based attacks we have than most other people. It's unlikely, but worth a single research die to check some turn when our research isn't quite so packed solid.

I can see it now.
1) We use 'Peacebond' to subdue all weapons in the area.
2) Some motherfucker picks up a non-weapon and hits us over the head with it.
3) Nid ensues.
4) D'oh.

(This is a joke, not a serious criticism of investigating the idea)

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Solar Saiyan said:
Maybe he didnt have Gale or Atgeir, but he did have Emberwind, and possibly Sword too. We can just ask him if could get Firestorm or Wildfire by combining either Gale or Emberwind with any of Ignition or Forgefire. Also, there are the combinations with Sword that have to be considered too.

Sure. There's no harm in asking, I was just noting that, if he never had Gale or Atgeir he might well not know how they combine, which means he only knows the Fire ones and their combinations with each other, and maybe how (and if) they combine with Sword.

Shard said:
Why does Odr burn out faster than blood burns out faster than paint on runes?

We actually know this, it's because they're more powerful. The way it seems to work is anything painted in the Runes has the same 'total power'...the more symbolically powerful the liquid, the quicker it releases that power, so Odr does it all at once, blood does it more gradually, and paint does it more gradually still.

Constenanto said:
Now that I think about it, somewhat surprised that we didn't get a muna from that.

We may yet. Generally we don't get rewards like Muna until the end of the encounter and this one is not yet over.

TheCount said:
on this, just a note that the speed of the trick probably do not change, but yeah, not having to charge a laser is good.

True, but if it lets us get around the down side of Folded Tricks, that's pretty good all on its own.

Shard · Jun 25, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
True, but if it lets us get around the down side of Folded Tricks, that's pretty good all on its own.

9x Folded Sparkbomb:

15 +2 + 3 + 4 +... + 9 = 59 Orthsirr.

Add in, say 42 Orthsirr for bonus dice:

1d6 Base
1d6 Emberwind
42d6 Orthsirr

Plus Puncture for 9 Orthsirr to deal with those pesky perfect defences.

9 attacks roll with 44d6, each dealing 7~10 per hit, piercing perfect defences (but not perfect dodges..). If cast at melee someone unready they would probably just up and die. This ultraattack would cost about 100 Orthsirr, so it would be pretty expensive to cast. A more reasonable option is probably a threefolded Sparkbomb (20 Orthsirr) with 21 Orth for extra dice and Puncture for 50 Orth total, which should still kill a lot of people.

(Sadly Becalm would nosell this, and probably at a lower Orthsirr cost, and there are probably other good counters too.)

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jun 25, 2023

Shard said:
9 attacks roll with 44d6, each dealing 7~10 per hit, piercing perfect defences (but not perfect dodges..). If cast at melee someone unready they would probably just up and die. This ultraattack would cost about 100 Orthsirr, so it would be pretty expensive to cast. A more reasonable option is probably a threefolded Sparkbomb (20 Orthsirr) with 21 Orth for extra dice and Puncture for 50 Orth total, which should still kill a lot of people.

We probably shouldn't add any dice if storing something like this, or not very many anyway. We can just do that at the time via just assigning more dice and then adding them to our other actions with Orthstirr as necessary, which leaves more Orthstirr free, but this is the basic idea, yeah. Dunno if that actually works, but it's a heck of an ace to keep up our sleeve for emergencies if it does.

I think we probably don't have quite enough Pockets to keep one of these around until we get our second shapeshifting slot in Fasts (or not if we want to do things like make a Brewing Pocket and the like, which we do), and don't want to add many Pockets as that would decrease our Odr gain, though it's arguable, but it's a solid long term plan.

NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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