Thanks, fixed!
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
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- He/Him
Actually, wait...I dunno if this is even legal? We normally only get 1 Visit per season. Vagn gives us an extra per year, but I don't know if that allows two in one turn. We were only allowed one per turn even before the 'one per season' limit was added.
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1 action for the underhouse, 1 for the visit, 1 extra visit to burby, 1 crafting and +1 bonus owl crafting.
Math checks out for me.
Edit: but if it was brought anyway, Vagn's extra visit is stand alone, not a tackled on bonus likeour owl's, right?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's the right number of actions. My question is if we're allowed to do 2 Visits in one turn, something that has never been allowed before. Now, Vagn may change that, hence the question, but he also may not, and it's not about action numbers.
It definitely means we can't do a Visit next turn, which means we need to resolve the heart the turn after, delaying that resolution.
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Why wouldn't we, if Vagn's bonus is a thing though?
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Because the limit applied even when we could do 6 Visits per year, and because that limitation is to limit the amount of work the QM needs to do on any one turn, more than anything.
So, a few thoughts and suggestions on the plan:
[X]Plan Training Items
This is kind of a minor thing, but my idea here was that we'd invite them to build it with us, sort of like a barn-raising?
I think "advice and help" might be interpreted as more of like, us asking them to consult about it, but I think it's a more interesting scene if we have a big party building a sauna together, then have a sauna party in it.
What about this rephrasing:
I think this gives @Imperial Fister a lot of narrative hooks to work with, and it's not hard to have a scene where we get one or both of them on their own. I get the impression that they're both on their guard, so I think something fun (which might involve them getting a bit drunk) could be helpful to lower their guard here.
Shall we go for three here? It's the magic number after all.
So, given you mentioned that planned idea for how we take on a Steelfather, do you think we maybe want to develop a grapple trick for getting a flask in someone's mouth/nostril? Or some kind of submission hold which will work against an opponent with unbreakable bones and joints - we could maybe ask Abjorn to be a training dummy.
It could wait a turn, and I suspect you're going to say it's too early to start training this, but if we don't start practicing this, then we'll never be ready, and we have a habit of putting this kind of thing off.
I'm willing to put a Reward Dice towards it if you're willing to work something up.
(The other thing we need to do is find some Eitr and make a delivery mechanism, but those are both easier and can wait. The wall of salt at the edge of our soul is made from Eitr which has dried out leaving a kind of salt, IIRC, so if we scrape some off carefully and soak it in water, we'd have Eitr.)
[X]Plan Training Items
This is kind of a minor thing, but my idea here was that we'd invite them to build it with us, sort of like a barn-raising?
I think "advice and help" might be interpreted as more of like, us asking them to consult about it, but I think it's a more interesting scene if we have a big party building a sauna together, then have a sauna party in it.
What about this rephrasing:
I think this gives @Imperial Fister a lot of narrative hooks to work with, and it's not hard to have a scene where we get one or both of them on their own. I get the impression that they're both on their guard, so I think something fun (which might involve them getting a bit drunk) could be helpful to lower their guard here.
Shall we go for three here? It's the magic number after all.
So, given you mentioned that planned idea for how we take on a Steelfather, do you think we maybe want to develop a grapple trick for getting a flask in someone's mouth/nostril? Or some kind of submission hold which will work against an opponent with unbreakable bones and joints - we could maybe ask Abjorn to be a training dummy.
It could wait a turn, and I suspect you're going to say it's too early to start training this, but if we don't start practicing this, then we'll never be ready, and we have a habit of putting this kind of thing off.
I'm willing to put a Reward Dice towards it if you're willing to work something up.
(The other thing we need to do is find some Eitr and make a delivery mechanism, but those are both easier and can wait. The wall of salt at the edge of our soul is made from Eitr which has dried out leaving a kind of salt, IIRC, so if we scrape some off carefully and soak it in water, we'd have Eitr.)
The only time that came up was near the start of the quest.
But I guess we just need to wait for IF to rule on it.
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Sure. I'll make the change. That was very much the intent, and if you want to throw in a Reward Die...
I think we want to ramp up carefully? I was thinking 1 each turn for 3 turns then escalate from there? That also gives a better idea of when it starts having bigger effects.
I don't think that method is valid for Halla is the thing. She's not a good enough wrestler and probably not ever gonna be...it's more a thing one of our kids might do, as they're likely to take after Abjorn and focus on the wrestling more. And if we did want to do that, we should probably wait a turn for the Training Item to be online, I think.
If we stick enough dice and Odr into a single grappling attack after having fooled the guy into thinking we're going to hit him with some kind of big flame attack because we're Blackhand's descendant and he will know Blackhand had Ilmarinen's Fire, then we don't need to be that great of a wrestler, just good enough. Or even better, use Contested Movement or its Stoker State enhanced equivalent to ensure we succeed. Spend 81 Odr on a single action if we have to.
More broadly, I think looking forward to the next quest is fine, but I really am not a fan of a mentality that says "Oh no, Halla can't do this, we have to wait for our kids who will have the cool adventures.". If we set limits on ourselves, then we can never break out of them. Lastly, we know Jarl Corpsemaker dislikes our family, and the war is a logical time for those tensions to come to a head. We need to have a contingency ready to kill him, and every element in place in advance.
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We can only spend Odr equal to the governing stat (ie: no more than 5 Odr on a Trick from a Skill or Style at 5). And Odr improves results, not odds of success. And Steelfathers likewise have Odr. And any Trick like that is gonna require them to already be grappled, making Contested Movement less than viable.
In short...I don't think any of these examples actually help land the Trick at all.
I mean, this is true on one level, but this is such a niche usage that I think only a true specialist is gonna be able to make use of it, and saying 'Halla is not a dedicated wrestling specialist and we're not making her one' seems a reasonable statement to make.
No, we hate Corpsemaker. He wants to ensure our family doesn't gain too much political power that doesn't depend on him...very different thing from hate.
So, after a lengthy Discord argument about the feasibility of this plan, the likelihood that the final plot arc will necessitate fighting a Steelfather, and the precise applicability of Contested Movement's "the attack goes through if you win" and whether this would apply to a grapple, etc. etc., the consensus we eventually reached was...
@Imperial Fister , is Momentum Reversal a kind of pin or hold in itself, or is it rather more about using an opponent's momentum to throw them or get them into a pin? I.E., if we want a Glima or Fang trick which is a general submission hold, like a rear naked choke or something, we'd need that to be a separate move?
My interpretation was the latter, but there's differing readings.
@Imperial Fister , is Momentum Reversal a kind of pin or hold in itself, or is it rather more about using an opponent's momentum to throw them or get them into a pin? I.E., if we want a Glima or Fang trick which is a general submission hold, like a rear naked choke or something, we'd need that to be a separate move?
My interpretation was the latter, but there's differing readings.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
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[X]Plan Training Items
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I have a question @Imperial Fister
Would a Finale that keys off of Stoking Engage be a viable design option? Something along the lines of "Enabled when Stoking Engage reaches (X) number of consecutive Attacks, can immediately discharge them into a Finale that scales based on your final Stoked Pool afterwards?"
It seems to be a suitable "Conditional" like how Flame Tending Blade needs extra time where you can't use Tricks or other advanced stuff while you're charging your attack. And I like the narrative that "Only someone who can withstand one of your strongest attacks is worthy of being struck down by your ultimate attack" kind of thing.
Would a Finale that keys off of Stoking Engage be a viable design option? Something along the lines of "Enabled when Stoking Engage reaches (X) number of consecutive Attacks, can immediately discharge them into a Finale that scales based on your final Stoked Pool afterwards?"
It seems to be a suitable "Conditional" like how Flame Tending Blade needs extra time where you can't use Tricks or other advanced stuff while you're charging your attack. And I like the narrative that "Only someone who can withstand one of your strongest attacks is worthy of being struck down by your ultimate attack" kind of thing.
I think that's just a Stoked Strike? Which is already a Finisher when it has enough dice put into it.
If we want to hit with (X) attacks on a Stoking Engage, then we can do that by putting (X) dice into it to start with. Then having our Stoked Strike as the next action.
Although Stoked Strike on a Contested Movement is actually really good, because it avoids the thing where even a 36d6 Stoked Strike still won't get through a 100d6 rolled defence.
If we want to hit with (X) attacks on a Stoking Engage, then we can do that by putting (X) dice into it to start with. Then having our Stoked Strike as the next action.
Although Stoked Strike on a Contested Movement is actually really good, because it avoids the thing where even a 36d6 Stoked Strike still won't get through a 100d6 rolled defence.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
Momentum Reversal allows you to grab them for a moment to either pull off a move for free (that is, unless they have some way of defending against it) or put them in a proper pin. It's, basically, a clothesline.
Yeah, that'd work. However, it'd still cost an Aspect to utilize.
0~0~0
I'll call the vote in 2 hours
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
"Cost an Aspect" is not the problem. "Triggering a Finale without exposing ourselves to an alpha strike in turn" is the problem, and apparently this does it!
We can even call it Threadcutter, set the minimum number of consecutive Stoking Engage hits to turn it 'On' to 9, and further successful hits increases the final power. Sever their paths to survival and seal the deal with a final attack.
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Sorry for being a bore on this point, but just to clarify, am I right in thinking "put them in a proper pin" means "trigger a pin or Hold based Glima/Fang move for free"?
My assumption is it means triggering another takedown or hold since that's how a clothesline works, and is how I'd been picturing it, but just so there's no ambiguity.
...I'm still not 100% sure how this is different than doing Stoking Engage and then a Stoked Strike? I mean other than a Finale being stronger, I guess, although Stoked Strike can scale to pretty ridiculous damage numbers as well.
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It's just being a stronger attack. But infinite is a lot better than the...15-20 damage a Stoked Strike is likely to hit.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Correct. You can either deliver another move, be it a trick or what have you, or you can put them in a pin.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
@Imperial Fister
Could we, just this year, sacrifice extra this for the years we couldn't sacrifice? Would be numerically if we sacrificed exactly 81 Food or somesuch for this Yule after such a bounty from Odin.
Could we, just this year, sacrifice extra this for the years we couldn't sacrifice? Would be numerically if we sacrificed exactly 81 Food or somesuch for this Yule after such a bounty from Odin.
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That's actually the opposite of what he's saying, I think. He's asking if Momentum Reversal alone can do a pin and suggesting it cannot.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Momentum Reversal can either lead into an uncontested pin or an uncontested non-pin move
...I'll allow you an extra permanent hamingja, but only because sacrificing this food is actually worth something. The Gods don't care for meaningless offerings of surplus stock.
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So...is that we can sacrifice an extra 27, or the current batch of 27 gives +2 Permanent Hamingja rather than +1 (still a total of 3, just two permanent instead of 1)?
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
You can sacrifice an extra 27