Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
Why are we sending Roxanne? Her middling diplomacy and risk-taking ways don't seem to mesh with an attempt to maintain a peaceful relationship.
In a dangerous situation, which it is, her stats increase by 2. Taking that into account, she is best hero at diplomacy after Lex himself, Pamela and Oswald, with 15 points. Additionally, she is not squeemish, she can take care of herself and is expendable.
 
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Why are we sending Roxanne? Her middling diplomacy and risk-taking ways don't seem to mesh with an attempt to maintain a peaceful relationship.
Disposable asset is the stated reason. Personally I want to kill that guy and completely sever ties, install our own agent as the mayor of metropolis and other top positions and start patrolling it with our troops and controlling the minimal criminal element that will continue to exist.
 
Avruskin.....Son of a bitch. We should have gotten that sunlight inducer using this donkey as a dry run for Superman & Pamela's research.
We considered it, but 7 points was a LOT.

Why are we sending Roxanne? Her middling diplomacy and risk-taking ways don't seem to mesh with an attempt to maintain a peaceful relationship.
Her diplomacy's not THAT bad.

Also:
1) She's not afraid to go on the wrong side of the law, compared to, say, Katherine.
2) She's not a super high value target for LexCorp in her own right, reducing incentive to try something stupid like holding her for ransom, compared to, say, Pamela.
3) She's relatively expendable if this is some kind of double cross, compared to, say, Pamela. Or Mercy.

This meeting is probably NOT a big negotiation where we win the guy over, it's likely to be some kind of renegotiation of our deal. Roxy is likely to be able to handle that.

Disposable asset is the stated reason. Personally I want to kill that guy and completely sever ties, install our own agent as the mayor of metropolis and other top positions and start patrolling it with our troops and controlling the minimal criminal element that will continue to exist.
OK, but the last time we tried that we got our ongoing war wth Intergang, so we'd better hold off on trying that until we can do it right.
 
We considered it, but 7 points was a LOT.

Her diplomacy's not THAT bad.

Also:
1) She's not afraid to go on the wrong side of the law, compared to, say, Katherine.
2) She's not a super high value target for LexCorp in her own right, reducing incentive to try something stupid like holding her for ransom, compared to, say, Pamela.
3) She's relatively expendable if this is some kind of double cross, compared to, say, Pamela. Or Mercy.

This meeting is probably NOT a big negotiation where we win the guy over, it's likely to be some kind of renegotiation of our deal. Roxy is likely to be able to handle that.

OK, but the last time we tried that we got our ongoing war wth Intergang, so we'd better hold off on trying that until we can do it right.
Well it's at least good to know you're on board with the direction.

I agree right now is a terrible time and so was back then.

How high do you place the priority of hiding out police bribing blackmail even further? We did it once and the current DC is at 99.

I don't think we have to worry about it because Eiling and DOMA are our allies and they would totally help us cover that shit up if somebody tried fucking with us for it
 
[X] [Whale Location] Meet with Whale at the Ahab Bar
[X] [Subordinate] Send Roxanne to the meeting
[X] [Cross] Have your subordinate come alone
 
Well it's at least good to know you're on board with the direction.

I agree right now is a terrible time and so was back then.

How high do you place the priority of hiding out police bribing blackmail even further? We did it once and the current DC is at 99.

I don't think we have to worry about it because Eiling and DOMA are our allies and they would totally help us cover that shit up if somebody tried fucking with us for it
I'd personally like to wait until we own the Mayor, the DA & the Congressman before we fully stamp out crime.
 
To add on to the mess I am experiencing technical difficulties. The update should come out tomorrow though. Thank you for your understanding. I will be closing the vote today at 10:00 pm PST
 
How high do you place the priority of hiding out police bribing blackmail even further? We did it once and the current DC is at 99.
As long as Lois Lane has better things to worry about, I'm not too concerned. The only reason it's an issue is because we're using that influence to shelter Tobias Whale, which would be super unpopular if discovered. We'd probably be able to ride out the discovery more or less without consequence otherwise. Everyone, cynically speaking, expects the police to answer to the desires of powerful individuals; it's when those individuals do something blatantly against the public interest that there's a problem most of the public flips out about.

That's actually the best reason to make this a double-cross and get rid of him; it would tie up that loose end IF we were prepared to follow up with aggressive crime-crushing afterwards. The problem, of course, is that now is like the worst possible time to do that because we have global problems with Intergang, which is much more powerful and threatening.

I don't think we have to worry about it because Eiling and DOMA are our allies and they would totally help us cover that shit up if somebody tried fucking with us for it
The thing to remember is that the threat to us getting caught bribing the police is to our reputation in the city. It's unlikely to result in Lex Luthor going to prison, or otherwise being unable to help the US government. They may not want egg on their faces from getting caught exerting pressure on local authorities and news publications in Metropolis, when it isn't so much to save an ally or to save his strength as to save his image.
 
The thing to remember is that the threat to us getting caught bribing the police is to our reputation in the city. It's unlikely to result in Lex Luthor going to prison, or otherwise being unable to help the US government. They may not want egg on their faces from getting caught exerting pressure on local authorities and news publications in Metropolis, when it isn't so much to save an ally or to save his strength as to save his image.
Sooner or later, we neet to arrange for a Presidential Pardon with [Insert Date Here] or even better, an Immunity from Prosecution for services rendered to the United States for ourself and the entire LexCorp Family.
 
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Sooner or later, we neet to arrange for a Presidential Pardon with [Insert Date Here] or even better, an Immunity from Prosecution for services rendered to the United States for ourself and the entire LexCorp Family.
Suffice to say that we'll want to lay groundwork so that it works for us more gracefully than it's working for Donald Trump in real life, because if Lex Luthor is reduced to only doing as well as Trump in any capacity, I will consider that to be a 'defeat condition' after which point we've lost the game.

More generally, though, the one thing that's unfailingly better than having immunity from prosecution is not getting caught, and that's my aspirational goal here.

While it's too late for us to kill or arrest Whale here and now, we may want to seriously consider that as a way of tidying up loose ends.
 
Suffice to say that we'll want to lay groundwork so that it works for us more gracefully than it's working for Donald Trump in real life, because if Lex Luthor is reduced to only doing as well as Trump in any capacity, I will consider that to be a 'defeat condition' after which point we've lost the game.

More generally, though, the one thing that's unfailingly better than having immunity from prosecution is not getting caught, and that's my aspirational goal here.

While it's too late for us to kill or arrest Whale here and now, we may want to seriously consider that as a way of tidying up loose ends.
We might want to expand our operations to Dallas should it come up, the opportunity for joint research or political alignment is interesting. Veronica Cale for President! A Real Wonder Woman!
 
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We might want to expand our operations to Dallas should it come up, the opportunity for joint research or political alignment is interesting. Veronica Cale for President! A Real Wonder Woman!
We already have a headquarters in Austin, the state capital, about 200 miles away. Close enough that it should be feasible. @King crimson , is she on the radar if her company does anything impressive enough that we'd start having reason to consider collaborating with her?
 
Tobias Whale was never supposed to be the long-term solution for the mob problem, merely a band-aid we slapped on it when the opportunity presented itself. While we amass enough power to govern all the Metropolis underworld, someone was needed to maintain the semblance of control. Tobias was a more or less perfect candidate: he supposedly has enough Stewardship, Intrigue and Diplomacy to keep the lid on the problem, while probably not having enough Martial score to be immune to a direct attack.

The way I see it, we tolerate him until he manages to take control of the majority of the criminal element while improving our and the police (still our) equipment and training. After that, we have him assassinated (we can either hire Lady Vic or ask for a favor from the League of Shadows). It would lead to a minor gang war from the power struggle of his subordinates and out-of-town organizations. THAT is the point our forces CRUSH all the criminals (or, alternatively, subjugate them). After that (fingers crossed) triumph (against disorganized and petty gangs), our public image will skyrocket, and even if somebody would reveal the connection between us and late Tobias, nobody will believe them.

With nonexistent or tightly controlled criminals, emerging heroes and vigilantes should focus on the more showy supervillains, decreasing their chance to stumble on and reveal our future schemes.
 
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The way I see it, we tolerate him until he manages to take control of the majority of the criminal element while improving our and the police (still our) equipment and training. After that, we have him assassinated (we can either hire Lady Vic or ask for a favor from the League of Shadows).
Minor side note:

Uh yeah, about that.

I would like to point out that with the League of Shadows knowing Whisper A'Daire has some kind of doomsday device, and planning to steal it, we may be forced to take actions that will put us back into conflict with the League, or at least end our alliance.

Because Ra's al Ghul is crazy enough to use certain kinds of doomsday devices (say, a plague bomb).
 
Minor side note:

Uh yeah, about that.

I would like to point out that with the League of Shadows knowing Whisper A'Daire has some kind of doomsday device, and planning to steal it, we may be forced to take actions that will put us back into conflict with the League, or at least end our alliance.

Because Ra's al Ghul is crazy enough to use certain kinds of doomsday devices (say, a plague bomb).
I mean, it is difficult to judge. Ra's al Ghul's sanity and intelligence levels are all over the place in comics and other media. He is sometimes almost reasonable and sometimes completely bonkers. Authors tried to handwave it to the pits' corrupting influence, but the excuse can be used only so many times before it stops being believable. Relative stability of this character to be decided by author, I guess. Not like we could do anything to stop him now without souring our relationship. We maybe could convince him after (if) he succeeds that we couldn't trust alien derived technology to work as advertised and remain under his control?
 
Interlude: Always a Bigger Fish
This took me forever to get around to doing. Life has been kicking my ass quite a bit lately. I've still managed to hit my intended quota of at least one update a week even if it has slowed down from my usual once a day posting. I hope everyone enjoys what is coming. The winning vote from last time was
[ ] [Whale Location] Meet with Whale at the Ahab Bar
[ ] [Subordinate] Send Roxanne to the meeting
[ ] [Cross] Have your subordinate come alone

There is a subvote below. Please think carefully on it as it will heavily affect things going forward and there are many nuances to this deal.

Interlude: Always a Bigger Fish
Roxanne
Roxy was enjoying herself. Apparently good ol' Lexy had some problems with a fat man named Tobias Whale, so she was being sent to a bar to meet with him. Whale was apparently some kind of crime boss who managed to get set up in Metropolis in the wake of the scuffle with Intergang with some tacit support from LexCorp. Pamela had met with the guy and hadn't been too impressed. Roxy wasn't going to rely two heavily on Pamela's impression. The scientist was nice enough but she tended to be a little judgey of others. Roxy was here to come to her own conclusions and attempt to negotiate with Whale on behalf of LexCorp. It was probably the only time she could drink on the job and say that it was genuinely contributing to improving the final result. So she grabbed her favorite bomber jacket, a gun (she was friendly not stupid), and an L-Phone and headed down to the Ahab Bar.

The Ahab Bar was a little dive in the Suicide Slums of Metropolis. It was dingy and dirty and overall in a bad neighborhood. How exciting! It was like getting to play around in an old school mobster movie. She entered the Ahab Bar and scanned the room. The bar was empty except for a bartender who was engaged in a call using a landline upon seeing her enter. While the interior was still a bit dingy it was in better shape than the outside would suggest. A few empty pool tables were in the back. Roxy was here on time but apparently Whale wanted to make her wait that was fine. Roxy preferred a rush but she could be patient when she needed to. She just didn't like it. Roxy went and sent a text to Rebecca that if she didn't check in with her in 4 hours something had gone wrong and Lex should do the whole scorched earth thing. Then she went to mess around with the pool cues.

Eventually the bartender got off the phone and he called out to Roxy.

"Whale will come in 30 minutes, he just wanted to make sure you weren't going to pull a double cross" The bartender announced "You can't be too careful in this business"

Well while the first bit was agreeable enough and Roxy understood why you might want to prevent double crosses the second bit was flat out wrong. Criminality was inherently built on risk. If you played it safe all the time you'd never succeed cause someone bolder would trample you while you didn't make any moves. Still incorrect platitudes weren't a reason to start a fight. Roxy asked what was good at the Bar and the bartender got her a bottle of beer and a plate of fish and chips.

When Tobias Whale arrived at the Ahab Bar he saw Roxy enjoying her meal at a booth. He was a large almost albino man in a dark burgundy suit flanked by two men in dark suits with guns dangling from their belts. Roxy waved hello to him.

"Sup?" Roxy asked as she munched on a piece of fried fish. The bartenders recommendation was good. Whale raised a single eyebrow in response as he sat down at the booth. His two flunkies went and stood off by the door to prevent anyone from leaving or entering without Whale's persistence.

"What is it with Lex Luthor and sending pretty redheaded dames to negotiate?" Whale queried.

"Don't really know" Roxy honestly responded "We've got a large number of redheaded women in important positions but I don't know why that is. I'll probably ask Lex the next time I talk to him"

Whale chuckled. He seemed to enjoy Roxy's candor.

"You're a lot less high strung then the last LexCorp representative I spoke with"

"I'm a very stress free person" Roxy stated "Still as much as I'd like to shoot the shit with you we've got business to get down to"

Whale clasped his hands together.

"Indeed" he responded "As you are aware I asked LexCorp to use its ties to the Metropolis police in order to free up my men to take on Intergang"

Roxy didn't know that but it did make sense. It was good to know what was going on and the information offered would make it easier to negotiate well.

"However" Whale continued "With Intergang kicked out of Metropolis and me in control of crime in this city, the original need for our deal is gone as such I'd like to renegotiate our deal"

"Neat" Roxy responded "So I suppose the most relevant thing to ask is what do you want, and what would we get from continuing a relationship with you? From my perspective we'd be best off just leaving you to hang in the wind"

"That's fair" Whale responded "If you abandoned me I still probably wouldn't attack LexCorp, not enough profit in petty revenge and you could easily find a patsy willing to stick a knife into my back. If you refused to work with me I wouldn't guarantee that we'd be conflict free, I'd expand my operations in whichever direction I saw fit and I'd keep my knowledge of our little backroom deals for a rainy day or a plea bargain if worst came to worst."

He stood up and gestured with his arms.

"I've kept crime quiet for the most part. I manage and control the entire underworld. For a man like Luthor that is a useful thing. I keep the status quo rolling the way he wants it to and quietly smother potential problems before they become problems"

Roxy nodded along. The speech made sense so far. He opened with some implicit threats and reassurances and then pitched giving Luthor indirect control of the underworld. She just wished he'd hurry up and get to what he wanted. She took a big bite out of her chips. It really was a good meal.

"But I also can't ask for the police to keep looking the other way from my operations, I've grown too big for that to be feasible." Tobias continued "The police need to be able to cull the weak, the stupid and the crazy from the pool or they get entrenched and you end up with a clusterfuck like Gotham"

Fair. Roxy liked Gotham but even she couldn't deny that the whole Holiday mess going on there was a mess for everyone involved.

"I'm not in the habit of lying to myself, I am aware that I'm only in power because of Luthor's tolerance of me. I don't think Luthor could eliminate crime but he most certainly could eliminate me if he wanted to, especially since I've made myself a target rather than remain completely anonymous to him" Whale spoke "Like there must always be crime there is always going to be a bigger fish than you. My name might be Whale but compared to the great white shark that is Luthor I'm little more than a remora."

Roxy idly wondered how long he spent thinking of the fish metaphors and various puns. It made Roxy want to laugh but that would likely tick off the man and considering she had been brought here to deal with the man that was something she wanted to avoid.

"Still like the shark and the remora our relationship can be symbiotic" Whale dramatically stated "I have a list of 100 key individuals including myself, who I want to gain some form of protection from the law with the aid of LexCorp, have the police give other matters priority and give us access to a good lawyer if one of the members is acting stupid and does get caught. In exchange I will ensure that crime occurs the way LexCorp wants it to go, meaning you can dictate boundaries, have us target a specific individual and the criminal element of Metropolis will not mess with LexCorp."

Well, Roxy thought. She had a heck of a deal on her hands. There was good and bad to it so she had to consider exactly how she wanted to respond

Whale's Renegotiation subvote
There is 1 hour moratorium on voting. Please vote in approval voting format. Pick your favorite option from the list.

[ ] [Deal] Accept the deal as is
[ ] [Deal] Reject the deal and leave amiably
[ ] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
[ ] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to forcibly capture Whale and kill his entourage
 
I'll get more bookkeeping done soon including throwing up Cerise Orielle's information on the character sheet. If anyone wants to spend exp now is the time to do so.
 
So I don't think we should take this deal
Whale spelled it out pretty explicitly that if push came to shove he will turn on Luther. Added to the fact that he wants protection for a hundred people which even with our pull with the cops is a tall order. I would prefer that we take him out eventually and install someone who has more loyalty to Luthor.
 
I say the deal is acceptable. There is still a moratorium, but my pick is taking the deal and just keep things in a neat and functioning status quo.
 
Well I don't think capturing Whale is a good idea if we plan to hand him over since it might make people (Batman Louis) pay even more attention to us and with Batman planning on coming to investigate us and Riddler we might not want a crime lord who worked with us around
 
Guy got a point about keeping the crazies contained. Really not sure if we got the AP to make sure things stay uninteresting either way.
 
@King crimson: No option to modify the deal? Would be nice if we could dictate that anyone stupid enough to need a laywer, clearly isn't effective enough to be useful to Lex Luthor.
 
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