Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Define members? LIke every low level guy, or people who are actually useful?
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Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest
- Thread starter King crimson
- Start date
- Superhero
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
pretty much in the take the deal side of things but not totally sold on it.
King crimson
Confusion Will Be My Epitaph
- Location
- Los Angeles
No option to modify the deal. Whale is dictating the terms here and Roxanne isn't in a position where she can freely negotiate this stuff. This is an all or nothing deal.
The 100 are essentially 100 people who run all of the criminal syndicates in Metropolis. If you mess up enough you can get kicked out. Whale has a list of names. You can arrest as many enofrcers and street level people as you want Whale wants to keep the leadership intact. Does that clarify things?
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Keani
C̵͍̈t̷̼̓h̴̀ͅŭ̶̹l̴̡̈u̸̫͗ ̶̟͌F̵͚́h̶̠͊t̶͍͌ă̷̺g̴̯̊n̷
- Location
- R͈̥̲̦͍͓͗̽̈́̚'̞ͧ͛ͥ̄l̫̰̤̖̽̐y͍̲ͧ̒́̐̌̀e̪͆h̸̩͔̟ͣ͐͐̎ͤ
I don't really have any interest in backing criminals at this point. I feel we gain so much more interesting opportunities for being on the up and up and that like a quick takeover of a Nation the time for going in on that has passed.
To be frank, I'd rather crush metropolis criminals than let this farce continue. Whale was a pawn that could have been useful in the world where we actually went in on crime rather than making mostly legit dealings and now he's just getting in the way of better opportunity.
At this point the only reason I can support whale is to hold killing him and dismantling organized crime in metropolis off until after intergang is dealt with enough so that they can't butt in. Frankly I feel we have metropolis set up enough that we could repel them even if they did so I say that his use is dead and that he's ready for disposal alongside the rest of metropolis organized crime.
I'd rather have the occasional interesting event than to have the Spector of current and active connections of this nature over our head.
A little corruption is fine and useful, being a mob patron has frankly lost its appeal.
To be frank, I'd rather crush metropolis criminals than let this farce continue. Whale was a pawn that could have been useful in the world where we actually went in on crime rather than making mostly legit dealings and now he's just getting in the way of better opportunity.
At this point the only reason I can support whale is to hold killing him and dismantling organized crime in metropolis off until after intergang is dealt with enough so that they can't butt in. Frankly I feel we have metropolis set up enough that we could repel them even if they did so I say that his use is dead and that he's ready for disposal alongside the rest of metropolis organized crime.
I'd rather have the occasional interesting event than to have the Spector of current and active connections of this nature over our head.
A little corruption is fine and useful, being a mob patron has frankly lost its appeal.
King crimson
Confusion Will Be My Epitaph
- Location
- Los Angeles
vote is now open
Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and leave amiably
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
- Location
- Singapore
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and leave amiably
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to forcibly capture Whale and kill his entourage
End Tobias Whale, alter Black Lightning Origin Story.
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to forcibly capture Whale and kill his entourage
End Tobias Whale, alter Black Lightning Origin Story.
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- Location
- North America
I like this fat man.
[X] [Deal] Accept the deal as is
[X] [Deal] Accept the deal as is
The problem is as whale said lex can kill him but he cannot stop crime. Lex would have to take the option every turn if he offed whale. Better to outsource the problem then deal with it in house.
- Location
- Bulgaria
[X] [Deal] Accept the deal as is
- Location
- USA
[X] [Deal] Accept the deal as is
We dont have the time to deal with him. And perhaps more importantly he can deal with the crazies for us meaning time we don't have to invest into doing that
We dont have the time to deal with him. And perhaps more importantly he can deal with the crazies for us meaning time we don't have to invest into doing that
Keani
C̵͍̈t̷̼̓h̴̀ͅŭ̶̹l̴̡̈u̸̫͗ ̶̟͌F̵͚́h̶̠͊t̶͍͌ă̷̺g̴̯̊n̷
- Location
- R͈̥̲̦͍͓͗̽̈́̚'̞ͧ͛ͥ̄l̫̰̤̖̽̐y͍̲ͧ̒́̐̌̀e̪͆h̸̩͔̟ͣ͐͐̎ͤ
We can't permanently eliminate all crime but instead of subverting organized crime we could create an organized structure that systemically dismantles organized crime for us. We don't have to take the option every turn if we instead form and equip say a Police Force or PMC to regularly and systemically dismantles organized crime.
Existing structures cannot do it and it needs constant attention. Sure going at it every single turn is an option but we're lex luthor so why should we? We could just do the lex thing and make and equip a Corp to do it for us. Hire the best, give them a crime targeting supercomputer and keep them supplied with our best.
Far better than being a mob patron.
Edit: yeah there's a bit of a lead up but it's like 3-4 actions and every benefit we get from whale is made but even better and it'll all be on the up and up and we'll be able to expand that op into our other branch locations and maybe beyond. It could work not just for metropolis but for Tokyo, jump, etc. It's a generally great idea even if we keep whale but I feel people will turn it down because we have whale making it seem low priority via sunken cost into whale.
Edit 2: while we're at it defanging and legalizing criminal revenue streams would help tamp down organized crime and be one of the most lucrative potential areas of expansion. Like hundreds of billions if not out right trillions just in the really easy ones like drugs, gambling, protection, lending, etc. That we can easily subvert and monopolize by doing stuff like making harmless synthetic drugs, expanding and lobbying for ethical up and up casinos, being better cops than the cops, expanding our existing finance ops to include ultra low interest small loans, etc.
Some of that stuff were already going down like the finance and protection where the others were developing the tools for like our bio research that could lead us to harmless highs.
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There will always be crime, and all systems are fallible. Even in police states crime always exists. It's human nature as you escalate the class of criminals will get better to match it. So make a well train pmc to replace the police or better equip the police. It just means the class of criminal has to be better. Its like antivirus as it gets better that just means the hackers have to make better viruses.
Keani
C̵͍̈t̷̼̓h̴̀ͅŭ̶̹l̴̡̈u̸̫͗ ̶̟͌F̵͚́h̶̠͊t̶͍͌ă̷̺g̴̯̊n̷
- Location
- R͈̥̲̦͍͓͗̽̈́̚'̞ͧ͛ͥ̄l̫̰̤̖̽̐y͍̲ͧ̒́̐̌̀e̪͆h̸̩͔̟ͣ͐͐̎ͤ
Yeah but here's the thing, there's a specific kind of crime we're dealing with. We're sadly not dealing with your line spouse beater or pot grower. We're dealing with systemic organized crimes and the wonderful thing about that is that systemic organized is that it has causes, aims, results, and requirements that we can stamp out and with some effort keep permanently out.
There will still be crime but we can kill the mob and with our resources we can keep it dead.
And like I said, doing that will have a much stronger and farther reach than whale ever can.
He's the easy out, not the only solution.
If it were that easy there wouldn't be organized crime. The reason why organized crime exists is to fill a need. The only way you could possibly destroy organized crime permently is to fill that need. So unless you can make a drug with minimal to know bad effects that can replace illegal drugs and replacements for the other needs like gambling then the need is still there. When th need is still there no matter what systems you set up someone will find a way around it to provide that need.
Like I said it's like cyber security, you can spend a lot of money to secure your computer but all that does is either make it more expensive or longer to get in. Which i also think is not really an option because to make crime not financially worth it you would have to sink alot of money.
JustinTim3
Lost soul of Ashes
- Location
- iowa
[X] [Deal] Accept the deal but with conditions
I would say accept the deal but under a caveat that if anyone of those hundred people become too public (Aka getting the attention of reporters.) then there protection is void.
I would say accept the deal but under a caveat that if anyone of those hundred people become too public (Aka getting the attention of reporters.) then there protection is void.
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Keani
C̵͍̈t̷̼̓h̴̀ͅŭ̶̹l̴̡̈u̸̫͗ ̶̟͌F̵͚́h̶̠͊t̶͍͌ă̷̺g̴̯̊n̷
- Location
- R͈̥̲̦͍͓͗̽̈́̚'̞ͧ͛ͥ̄l̫̰̤̖̽̐y͍̲ͧ̒́̐̌̀e̪͆h̸̩͔̟ͣ͐͐̎ͤ
This is exactly what I'm proposing. I'm saying we stamp it out here and now and instead of just waiting for the gap to fill we fill it. It's not easy and most simply can't but most are not lex clonefucking luthor.
We stamp it out here and now to set up the structures that will fight it and buy the time to replace it and then we steer our existing economic interests into replacing it. Like I said above, we're already going in the directions that can replace organized crime and there is a legitimate financial and power based interest in monopolizing those industries.
You rather hit the nail on the head, organized crime is a business and so long as there is a demand someone will find a supply, we stamp it out and supply but instead of supplying as a crimina we supply as a businessman. One of the most lucrative and influential areas of expansion I say yes.
Oh, and you forget that the smart way to dump assloads of money into making crime not worth it is to monopolize the revenue streams with totally legit and innovative businesses that quickly return investment and grant an outsize revenue stream and societal influence.
this notion that we cannot surpass organized crime is false and I deny it. I tire of this farce that he is the only viable solution to our aims. It was useful when we were to weak to kee intergang out and it was useful when we were gazing at organized crime as a path we wish to take. Now neither is true and what keeps him here is naught but sloth for we have passed organized crime and can keep intergang gone.
To be frank, there are better options. I don't care what we do right now as all things take time but I have less than no interest in continuing this nonsense.
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and leave amiably
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to kill Whale and his entourage
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and attempt to forcibly capture Whale and kill his entourage
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Bear in mind that this is just Roxy. Martial 16 given that by definition her life would be in danger. She's... well, she's in the middle of heroic tier, but she doesn't have the scary Cassandra-like abilities that put her in the same weight class in a fight as a reasonably effective metahuman like Vixen or Poison Ivy.
Given that Whale probably has some of his best along as a personal bodyguard detachment, then while I wouldn't rule out Roxy being able to escape if it was him double-crossing us... I also wouldn't bet on her having a high likelihood of success trying to take down the Whale while his henchmen are gunning for her.
[X] [Deal] Reject the deal and leave amiably
Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with killing Whale, or driving him out of town. But Roxy personally isn't likely to be the one to do that- with Mercy and a goon squad I'd feel more confident, but we chose not to send her and I accept the consequences of that.
That, plus, we simply do not have the energy or leftover Martial assets to tackle "Crush crime in Metropolis" this turn when we're likely going to need to take down one or more Intergang strongholds, possibly with appallingly dangerous doomsday weapons, alien tech, and powerful hero units interfering with our rolls.
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Keani
C̵͍̈t̷̼̓h̴̀ͅŭ̶̹l̴̡̈u̸̫͗ ̶̟͌F̵͚́h̶̠͊t̶͍͌ă̷̺g̴̯̊n̷
- Location
- R͈̥̲̦͍͓͗̽̈́̚'̞ͧ͛ͥ̄l̫̰̤̖̽̐y͍̲ͧ̒́̐̌̀e̪͆h̸̩͔̟ͣ͐͐̎ͤ
Similarly, he is in our city and our people are presumably on standby. If he's an outsize threat she only needs to hold him off long enough for reinforcements or make the judgement call to call for reinforcements, feign acceptance, delay, etc.
As you said she's middle heroic tier and pretty smart, she should be able to make these snap calls and judgements pretty well and the integrity of our operations does mean that we should automatically follow through rather than dropping on basis of "literally one woman alone couldn't do it in a 5 minute span.
To meme a bit, Roxanne is not trapped with him, he's trapped with her.
Edit:that being said I do think the action to do is to deny the deal amicably and just include whale and his ops when we stamp out crime properly.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Do you have any specific evidence supporting that presumption? We didn't prepare to double-cross Whale.
Uh, actually no, Roxanne Sutton is absurdly reckless and thrill-seeking and would totally do something improbably dangerous with a high likelihood of getting killed. While I wouldn't expect her to specifically express that by trying to kill someone...
THIS is Roxy Rocket.
I do not trust her judgment in a solo "yeah I can totally take these guys" scenario. If it were Mercy and she thought she could take them alone, I'd take her word for it. But not Roxy.
EDIT:
I mean, don't get me wrong, this and this are ALSO who Roxy Rocket is. She's pretty good in a fight, and maybe she could do it. But I'm not going to assume she can do it just because she thinks she can.
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