Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
These Mostly:-

I'd rather not waste AP from being hijacked by Brainiac's nanites.

Let's make it Bruce Wayne's problem ok? Let Wayne Enterprises waste their AP.
Lookign at that... that's the kind of thing that happens because of a massive crit-fail on interacting with Braniac tech - and, moreover, that happened because LexCorp let him in deliberately, and he was able to customize whatever info packets he liked. "Salvage shards of broken tech and see what we can learn from them" doesn't give nearly that level of access... ad when it does come time to analyze braniac tech, we'll know to put a major team on it, to avoid that little "crit-fail" issue.
 
Fair, but I still feel there is a lot of potential to sow devision and mistrust both between the Atlantean Kingdoms, and between the surface governments and Atlantis that the current leading plan doesn't encourage to the degree it could and should.
My issue with that is that Atlantis falling into a civil war doesn't actually benefit usas far as I can tell, it would just mean having to deal with their fighting
 
My issue with that is that Atlantis falling into a civil war doesn't actually benefit usas far as I can tell, it would just mean having to deal with their fighting
If Atlantis falls into factionalism, it's much more likely that we can deal with one or more of the factions on terms that give us access and opportunities to profit. As an oceanic superpower they're much more resilient against that kind of move.
 
If Atlantis falls into factionalism, it's much more likely that we can deal with one or more of the factions on terms that give us access and opportunities to profit. As an oceanic superpower they're much more resilient against that kind of move.
That's true but the issues in my opinion that any pro-surface faction will inevitably be led by Arthur, who doesn't trust us, and the anti-surface groups will be led by the likes of Orm who won't hesitate to just flood huge sections of land
 
Guys. You forget. Atlantis falling into civil strife will interfere with global shipping trade. Our L-Phone sales will fall because of supply chain disruption.

Terror attacks from a 3rd party like Black Manta will keep them busy with internal security rather than surface hostilities.
 
My issue with that is that Atlantis falling into a civil war doesn't actually benefit usas far as I can tell, it would just mean having to deal with their fighting
Why would we deal with it. Lexcorp doesn't have any properties in the atlantean kingdoms, and they refuse to trade pretty much anything with us directly. The battle would occur undersea and we didn't notice anything during the first civil war they just rapped up.

We are unlikely to be affected in any negative way, and with the civil war distracting arthur and mera they wouldn't even notice if we produce tech they haven't even shared with surface governments that Ra stole for us. At least not until they rapped things up. It's always a good idea to tie up uncooperative foreign powers with internal issues, keeps them from taking actions that influence your sphere of influence.
That's true but the issues in my opinion that any pro-surface faction will inevitably be led by Arthur, who doesn't trust us, and the anti-surface groups will be led by the likes of Orm who won't hesitate to just flood huge sections of land
We don't need them to cooperate, now that we know they exist we are perfectly capable of arranging for there tech to be stolen.
Guys. You forget. Atlantis falling into civil strife will interfere with global shipping trade. Our L-Phone sales will fall because of supply chain disruption.

Terror attacks from a 3rd party like Black Manta will keep them busy with internal security rather than surface hostilities.
The first civil war happened wothout anyone even realising they happened. There isolationist policies are sufficiently thurough that any fighting will happen far from where humans will discover it, and it's not like we don't have a hugely successful airplane business to handle a decent percent of our goods transport. Intel from Ra will allow us to send whatever shipping is left over thru zones far from the fighting most of which will likely occur closer to the sea floor.
 
Everyone's talking back and forth about the atlanteans, and whether they'll attack the surface, and whether or not we want them locked in civil war. At times like these, I think it's really important to pause for a moment. Take a step back. Breathe. Relax. Stop worrying about the little things, and consider what's really important in life.

Superman.

We tried to get in ahead of him on the Atlantean thing, and we failed miserably. We'll get no traction there. Given that, we need to do whatever we can to make sure that Superman doesn't spontaneously acquire the backing of an entire undersea kingdom. ...which he will if he winds up interacting all that much with Arthur, and Aquaman hasn't been successfully deposed. I'm not actually sure which way this one leans, but we really ought to be keeping it in mind, especially in the period before the formation of the Justice League equivalent - because Arthur could actually wield some influence there, and it wont' be in any way that's favorable to us.

I think, to my eyes, we want them busy. Preferably, we want them busy enough that they won't be taking calls from people who are trying to set up a Justice League. Home-grown terrorism is great and all, but to my mind, civil war is more likely to see to that level of distraction. It also has the advantage that even if Superman and Aquaman do connect, there's still a fair chunk of the undersea kingdoms that Aquaman won't have... and if Superman happens to involve himself in a politically-driven war because of a personal friendship with one of the leaders... well, that can most certainly be spun against him, especially in the halls of power.
 
Damnit, changing my vote.

[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.

[X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.
 
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Guys. You forget. Atlantis falling into civil strife will interfere with global shipping trade. Our L-Phone sales will fall because of supply chain disruption.

Terror attacks from a 3rd party like Black Manta will keep them busy with internal security rather than surface hostilities.
I would not consider it as big problem. We can just build production facilities in Biyala or in some Asian country. Would be cheaper too.

And relying on attack from Black Manta is very short term solution. I can see it going two ways. Either Arthur finally catches him, cements his position as Atlantis ruler and improve relations with surface, becoming another major competitor for LexCorp in technology market . Or Black Manta escalate till the point where we still get Atlantis civil war. Problem with that is that without contacting him we have no way of directing his approach. It is entirely possible that he will choose one of American cities as false flag attack target and then we will be forced to hunt him and put him down, and basically do Arthur work for him entirely for free. If we contact Manta beforehand we can discourage him from dragging surface world into it or advise him to start with China and Russia.


Also, I think that telling Ra's where to find the nukes is a really bad idea. Like, seriously. Let's not do that thing.
I think Ra wanted to save earth. Even if he decide to destroy humanity for it, he would do it in ecologically clean way. We already broken one alliance with Ra cause we did not trust him with weapon of mass destruction, we kind of repeating it here.

Currently we are not committing to our partnership at all. It looks that on Atlantis issue our interest lies only in Atlantis technology, while with Alien it is again all about technology that we can acquire. Like is there anything in our suggestions that benefits Ra goals?
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Gumiho on Oct 11, 2021 at 12:02 AM, finished with 67 posts and 6 votes.
  • 6

    [X] [Dekan] Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself
    [X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheramone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.
  • 6

    [X] [Alien] Write-in: Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien and request that he provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean
    [X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)
    [X] [Alien] Write-in: Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's observe the Brain whilst he aids in repelling the invasion.
  • 6

    [X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.
    [X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.
  • 6

    [X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and provide them with the new technology. Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis' political system and current rulers free of charge. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis.
    [X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and provide them with the new technology. Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis' political system and current rulers free of charge. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis.

[X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.
 
[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Write-in: Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's observe the Brain whilst he aids in repelling the invasion.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection

[X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.

[X] [Alliance] Write-in: Instead of direct alliance between LexCorp and LoS suggest pouring both of your organization resources into Leviathan - brand new organization posing as international spy agency with primary goals of containing alien tech distribution and curtailing Atlantis influence on surface world countries. Ask Talia if she is willing to lead such organization. If she or Ra don't accept such approach agree to original deal with majority rule for adding new members.
 
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[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
I think, to my eyes, we want them busy. Preferably, we want them busy enough that they won't be taking calls from people who are trying to set up a Justice League. Home-grown terrorism is great and all, but to my mind, civil war is more likely to see to that level of distraction. It also has the advantage that even if Superman and Aquaman do connect, there's still a fair chunk of the undersea kingdoms that Aquaman won't have... and if Superman happens to involve himself in a politically-driven war because of a personal friendship with one of the leaders... well, that can most certainly be spun against him, especially in the halls of power.
This is exactly what my my write in is aiming for. Talia can push for a the freedom to make use of technology for a more versatile approach to the leagues enemies, but she needs a situation where even Ra al ghul can't deny the benefit. My write in paints Atlantis as such a situation, and words the tech offer in terms meant for Ra al ghul to be more comfortable accepting.
 
These picks work for me. Hopefully we get everything we need out of Dekan now, afterwards he'll be a mess from the pheromones.

[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and provide them with the new technology. Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis' political system and current rulers free of charge. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis.
 
Somewhat surprised that people against building closer ties with the League of Shadows. Especially since Talia clearly wanted it. I think it would be harder for her to raise her influence in League without overseer position.

Too late for it, but I think if we wanted to maintain separation between our organizations creating in-between agency would have been better approach. Something like

[ ] [Alliance] Write-in: Instead of direct alliance between LexCorp and LoS suggest pouring both of your organization resources into Leviathan - brand new organization posing as international spy agency with primary goals of containing alien tech distribution and curtailing Atlantis influence on surface world countries. Ask Talia if she is willing to lead such organization. If she or Ra don't accept such approach agree to original deal with majority rule for adding new members.
 
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[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
[] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.

So, pushing again for using this more detailed write in to push Ra towards favoring pushing atlantis back into civil war so there to divided and distracted to really interfere in surface world issues such as our fued with superman. This is perferable to his usual method of assassinating leaders, since thats going to be very high difficulty against mermen like arthur.

I'm also posting a tally so we can see look at whats else is leading and discuss why people support or don't support it.
Adhoc vote count started by RandyTrevelyan on Oct 12, 2021 at 12:12 PM, finished with 80 posts and 12 votes.
  • 11

    [X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.
    [X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheramone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.
    [X] [Dekan] Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself
  • 12

    [X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)
    [X] [Alien] Write-in: Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien and request that he provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean
    [X] [Alien] Write-in: Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's observe the Brain whilst he aids in repelling the invasion.
  • 12

    [X] [Alliance] Write-in: Agree to the deal but request that a majority consensus must be reached if either party seeks to include more allies in the future.
    [X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.
  • 12

    [X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and provide them with the new technology. Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis' political system and current rulers free of charge. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis.
    [X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
[X] [Dekan] Write-in: Turn on the defenses to disable Dekan immediately. Then dose him with a pheromone spray to compel him to answer our questions truthfully. Press Dekan on why he might think Rebecca has no soul. Ask about why he felt the need to hide his reasons for looking into robots and exo-suits. Call Dekan out on lying about why he was seen talking to himself.

[X] [Alien] Tell Ra's everything you know about the alien. Request that Ra's provide you with any leftover pieces of the alien invasion that come into his position in exchange for the information you manage to glean from them. Try to arrange some sort of line of communication to better coordinate your efforts (and, in particular, to help him keep his efforts against the alien from coming into conflict with the official governmental efforts against the alien, which you will also likely be in on at least some of)

[X] [Alliance] Offer a different sort of alliance. LexCorp is happy to work closely (as described in the initial alliance) on any matters involving things like external, severe, or existential threats to the world, but does not wish to be implicated in anything involving direct action against law-abiding individuals, regardless of what we might wish to occur to them. We are happy to use our influence in ways that will be incidentally useful in containing such individuals, and happy to take any suggestions that Ra's might have to offer on such matters, but we have concerns about the investigative abilities that may be brought to bear, and thus do not wish to be involved in things like planning or target selection except rarely, and then on a case by case basis. Leave open the possibility of inviting others into the alliance later, with a majority vote.

[X] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
 
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[ ] [Alliance] Write-in: Instead of direct alliance between LexCorp and LoS suggest pouring both of your organization resources into Leviathan - brand new organization posing as international spy agency with primary goals of containing alien tech distribution and curtailing Atlantis influence on surface world countries. Ask Talia if she is willing to lead such organization. If she or Ra don't accept such approach agree to original deal with majority rule for adding new members.
This write-in is fine.
[] [Atlantis] Write-in: Give Ra's al Ghul information on Atlantis political system and current rulers free of charge, putting emphasis on what you learned of Orm and the possibility of triggering infighting among the Atlantean kingdoms. Tell Ra's what you know about the renegade Black Manta, who is an enemy of the current rulers of Atlantis. Offer to reverse-engineer any Atlantean technology the League manages to steal and supply the league with replicas should they choose to attempt to reignite the Atlantean civil war or frame atlantis for surface attacks through misdirection.
This write-in is fine. I might be being a little pedantic here but I don't believe that Lex Luthor is actually aware of Ocean Master's name. It's not a big deal as it's a piece of information that's relatively easy to find out (the guy before Arthur was called Orm) but it's a thing I do want to point out as I would like to state that there is information about the situation with Atlantis that Lex doesn't know (for example he doesn't know that one of the biggest anti-Arthur and pro-Orm leaders in Xebel is actually Mera's sister Hila or what the historical significance of the Curse of Kordax is or that Atlantean kingdoms each have one of Atlan's relics). He's basically gotten an overview of things which is enough to make plans around the undersea kingdoms but he doesn't know enough to make much plans around individuals all that well consistently. It hasn't come up and I've done my best to give you a fair understanding of Atlantis' political structure but I would like to point out that both the thread and Lex (who has even less information potentially as he can't look at other DC stuff and guess at likely actors and their behaviors) do not have a complete understanding of what's going on in Atlantis.
 
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Hooray for doubleposting! So I am working on stuff (Long Halloween, Last Days of Krypton and Head of the EPA in that order as well as just some stuff for my own fun and enjoyment) but I'm keeping the scheduling loose on that kind of stuff. I'll probably be closing the vote tomorrow and getting the actual update out the day after but I know myself well enough to know that this is not a promise as I'm a bit bad at sticking to schedules exactly.

On an entirely unrelated note some of my thoughts on Ra's al Ghul.

Ra's al Ghul is an interesting character to me because he's got a lot of little things about him that make him into a fun character to play with. Even beyond being a semi-immortal leader of a bunch of assassins I think his characterization is interesting to make note of.

A big thing to note with Ra's al Ghul is that he's weirdly hung up on respect and on both being respected and respecting others. People generally fixated on Ra's relationship with death (which is a massive part of his character make no mistake about that) but in doing so I think they tend to miss this element of the character. Ra's is weirdly respectful for a supervillain, more so than most of his others. He's unfailingly polite to people in the modern era and he does things to show respect, such as referring to Batman as "Detective" out of respect for his skills whilst most other villains give Batman nicknames out of a sense of familiarity or to insult him ("Bats", "B-Man", "Guanoman" etc.). It even would extend to how he addresses others in general as he doesn't foreshorten names and generally respects competence in a given field. He doesn't really throw around insults and whilst he's more than willing to kill people he doesn't go out of his way to humiliate others. At the same time Ra's cares about being respected back. Ra's al Ghul thinks he is deserving of respect and will often kill those who don't give him the respect he thinks he deserves. It's a solid component in why Ra's al Ghul could never really not be a supervillain because he lacks the capacity to lower himself to the level of the common person and he reacts violently to feelings of disrespect. Notably in-quest the reason why he lead an attack on the Court of Owls was to reclaim a lazarus pit he felt was his by right and to pay back the insult he felt by the Court keeping his son, Arkady, Duvall alive as a wreck and torturing/making use of him. Keep in mind that Ra's had no issue with leaving Arkady to die on his own so beyond his possessiveness of the pit the main reason why Ra's al Ghul basically lead a purge of Gotham whose repercussions were fairly massive was due to feeling disrespected and not out of some sort of familial protectiveness.

The other thing to transition from here is the discussion of Ra's as a parent. Ra's is an awful parent in a few different ways but he's got some nuance to him. Ra's al Ghul provides for his children and does genuinely feel love them to some degree or another. That being said he absolutely doesn't tolerate any of them going against him as he sees that as being disrespectful to him. I imagine Ra's has a more old-school idea of filial piety where children should listen to and obey their elders. He's not suffocating about it and he lets his children conduct their lives fairly freely but he absolutely doesn't tolerate them working against him. In addition to that Ra's is also remarkably cruel in how he educates his kids. Ra's gives his children a decent amount of freedom to choose their own path, but he also won't step in to help them deal with the consequences of their actions, reasoning that if they are choosing for themselves they need to suffer the consequences on their own as well. The most notable and possibly cruel example of this is that he didn't intervene when Nyssa ended up in a concentration camp. He'll defend his children when they're following his orders and acting as he wants them to but at the same time he'll abandon them the moment they step out of line with his vision. Another nasty side-effect of Ra's long life is that he ultimately views his children as replaceable. He'll mourn their loss but he won't hesitate to let them die for him and then simply replace them with different children.

Another interesting thing to note about Ra's is that he's ever so slightly sexist. He's not misogynistic and he'll generally treat women politely and with respect but he at the same time is ever so slightly sexist. He accepts female assassins and female administrators and doesn't discount them or their competence but he very notably is only interested in a male heir and often schemes to use his daughters to secure one by effectively officiating a heir through marriage which ties into a preoccupation with bloodline as well. A great deal of this stems from the fact that Ra's al Ghul has been around since the crusades and while he's remarkably progressive for someone from that time, he hasn't abandoned his roots and so his fixation on only male heirs being fit to succeed him and wanting his heir to be tied to him by blood or marriage to his children stems from the fact that Ra's carried over some of his beliefs and prejudices even if he has somewhat adapted to the modern era. I actually like having Ra's be ever so slightly sexist because it's a great twist to the character and it gives him nuance and makes him feel more real (to me at the very least). It's great because of how insidious and quiet it is. A lot of fictional sexists are loud and overbearing and dramatically bring to attention the fact that they're sexist. Ra's al Ghul's sexism is quiet and not ever really at the center of his character and it shows an interesting sort of dynamic where he's okay with women being basically anything except his successor. It shows a little bit of Ra's hypocrisy and arrogance and gives him nuance beyond being a gentleman and an assassin as it shows how he lets his own potentially incorrect beliefs and bias' overpower his better nature which in turn reflects his more visible biases in wanting to exterminate most of humanity to create a garden of eden. It's a great way to highlight that as awful as Gotham can be at times, Ra's is very notable wrong in a lot of his conclusions and it's an interesting little internal parallel where Ra's looks great on the surface and he does have good point to him but at the end his own biases make his conclusions wrong and incorrect. I think it's a neat thing to include and to think about especially since he's a villain who can have a lot of nuance in some of his negative traits.
 
Huh, that honestly explains a lot on why we seem to get along so well with him. We default to being respectful towards anyone who has yet to slight us, so by reciprocating the respect al Ghul gives out, and making him know that we respect him as well. This makes al Ghul more positively inclined towards us, thereby increasing his respect towards us in a feedback loop.
 
King Crimson's Thoughts On Categorizing and Writing Evil in Comic Books
King Crimson's Thoughts On Categorizing and Writing Evil in Comic Books
Introduction
Evil is an interesting concept to write about. It's inherently relativistic to at least some degree and there's a lot of philosophy around it. Not only that, it's philosophy that's often easy to digest and can include nuance. With the superhero genre fundamentally being about heroism, or in other words good, it's only natural that the antagonists be evil in some way or another. It is important to note that in story's the antagonist does not need to be evil. Antagonists can oppose the protagonist without in any meaningful way being evil. It's not often handled well when people do this but you can have conflicts where both people are good or at the very least do not actively act evilly.

Now I don't want to devolve too far into philosophy but I would like to introduce the idea that both actions and actors can be evil and they are not intrinsically linked. Someone could rob a company thinking that they're doing good as a Robin Hood-like figure only to unintentionally harm the livelihoods of thousands of people and make the act actually evil without being evil themselves. Someone could lash out in anger and accidentally hurt someone and while the act remains evil the person does not. The reason why I bring up this little bit about philosophy is because it's important to understand my own positions on evil with supervillains.

Now with supervillains I like to categorize them into a few different types, inherently evil, incidentally evil, intentionally evil, identifiably evil and ideally evil. Each of these categories is tied to the characters inherent relationship with evil and each one of them ought to be written in my own humble opinion.

Inherently Evil
Inherently evil characters are often the simplest and least nuanced characters but at the same time they can be the most difficult to handle. Inherently evil characters are characters to whom evil is an inherent part of their character. It's so baked into who they are that they simply cannot be any other way. Inherently evil characters lack moral agency in that they did not choose to be evil they were simply born or created that way. Examples of this kind of character in DC comics include, parademons, monsters, Nekron, the Rot, killer robots and more.

Inherently evil characters lack any real depth to their reasoning as to why they are evil as it's reduced to simply being their nature. They cannot be anything but evil and so there's no real exploration of their motivations. Oftentimes inherently evil characters lack any agency and are only evil because some higher power compels them to be evil. As such they tend to work well as minions that the hero can unload the full force of their skills on or that a group of people with different morality can team up to fight against, because there is no chance of reform or improvement of that entity. They exist to be used and disposed of.

What is interesting about an inherently evil character is what they show about another character and what additional traits they have. Nekron for example is interesting because of how people work together to deal with him and because of his role in the greater cosmology in the DC universe. The Rot is fascinating as an evil force that doesn't actually want to kill all humans and is a necessary part of life. Parademons are often simpering, cowardly and cruel and in doing so they demonstrate something about Darkseid that this is what his footsoldiers are and how they act as well as the fact that he freely throws away the lives of parademons says something about how he doesn't value them as resources. The manhunters are inherently evil but their creation shows the Guardians as fallible and highlights their arrogance but at the same time shows that there are lines they are unwilling to cross and that for all they do argue with the Green Lanterns who are our protagonists, they are still good. Inherently evil characters are basically a fulcrum which you can use to explore more interesting characters.

As such I don't think they make interesting POV characters but they make excellent minions, background elements or even serving as part of an ensemble. What they contribute to the story is not something interesting in who they are, but rather in what they do and how they act. They're less a thematic statement and more a plot element.

Incidentally Evil
Incidentally evil are a notable distinction in that they are a character who are in a sense disconnected from their evil and aren't culpable for their own actions. As such the evil acts they do perform aren't their fault. The individual in question happens to be evil because of circumstances beyond their control and not any choices on their part.

Any character who is mind controlled to act evilly falls under this category but, while it is the rarest form of evil in comics in my opinion, there are still characters who fall under this categorization. Characters like Humpty Dumpty or Big Sir perform evil actions not because they choose to perform evil, but because they are incapable of understanding what they are doing and can't be held accountable for what they do.

Characters who are incidentally evil ought to have their evil be considered tragic in some way shape or form. They're pitiable and unlike a lot of villains I think some degree of compassion should be given to them. Granted all of this is contingent on the idea that the character can't recognize that they did anything wrong and the moment someone manages to explain it to them they'll instantly stop but it is something I think should be included.

Incidentally evil characters are tricky because just beating them up and disposing of them (through death, imprisonment or however the story is going to cycle characters offscreen) doesn't give you as much catharsis or resolution. An incidentally evil character needs to be handled in such a way that's different than how the heroes normally do, because an incidentally evil character fundamentally challenges how a hero approaches dealing with evil actions when they're disconnected from anything even resembling malicious intent.

I think that the way to handle these characters is to give them long term ramifications for their actions one way or another. Either, once the character realizes they committed evil and can understand it they have to grapple with that understanding for a good long while (generally most effective for mind control stories) or you have the hero try to wrestle with having to confront said person or search for a way to help them understand what they are doing. Sending someone like Humphry Dumpler to Arkham doesn't resolve the issues he brought up and thus more needs to be done with the character in order to have it have at least some degree of success. Even if it's something as small as the hero talking them down from hurting anyone or giving them something productive they can do while imprisoned or anything along those lines, it still is needed in order to bring the story to a close effectively.

Incidentally evil characters are probably the trickiest to handle if you're not going for the mind control angle as the mind control angle effectively simplifies some of the nuance and the morality surrounding the situation as there's a clear outside factor that you can immediately blame and assign moral culpability for what goes down.

Intentionally Evil
Intentionally evil, despite what the name I've given it seems to suggest, is not someone who deliberately chooses to do evil. Rather it is someone who chooses to perform an action that is evil that places them into the role of antagonist. In other words while the person's intentions are not evil it is because of their intentions that they perform evil.

This is a very, very broad category as any well meaning individual who performs evil or becomes evil falls into this category. The thing that is most important to note is that the person is evil because of the things they chose to do and emphasis is placed on those choices. Characters in this categorization cannot recognize that what they are doing is wrong even if their choices are marked by the story as being evil to some degree or another. Some versions of Poison Ivy, Anarky, Zoom, Sinestro, Atrocitus and more all fall into this category.

I think it's important to note with intentionally evil characters is that there is a sliding degree of selfishness versus selflessness and that generally affects portrayal. The more selfless the characters intentions are, the more out of touch with reality they are and the more they lean into being some manner of insane or damaged. The more selfish the intentions, even if they are somewhat malicious or uncaring, the more the character is in some way hypocritical or arrogantly convinced that others do not know better than them.

I generally think that when portraying intentionally evil characters it's best to give them a long slow descent. Like with the boiling frog parable slowly increasing how much a character is willing to engage in evil until you reach their end state that is vastly different from the start is in my opinion the ideal way to handle this type of character, especially those who fall more on the selfish side of the scale (more selfless intentionally evil characters can more often get away with a psychotic break pushing them into what they are and speed running some of the logical hoops they have to jump through).

I also think it's important that intentionally evil characters have a point, though not necessarily a good one. They ought to be able to line up an argument that makes sense if their premises are taken to be true. Keep in mind that this does not mean that the audience or other characters have to acknowledge them as in any way right or morally justifiable but they should at least be capable of acknowledging that their argument makes sense from their point of view.

Having a character transition to become intentionally evil is tricky at times but I think it can be done well even if you have to be careful with how you write it. What you essentially need to do is demonstrate how a character comes up with the premises for their argument and then show step by step how they came to that conclusion. If the audience cannot reconstruct the intentionally evil character's logic, then their characterization will ultimately fall flat.

Identifiably Evil
Identifiably evil characters are another broad spectrum of characters and characterizations but they are an important one nonetheless. These are characters who can look at themselves and their actions and recognize that they are in some way evil but they do not care one way or another. Furthermore the narrative itself acknowledges that the characters are evil or are behaving in an evil manner but the focus is not on their evil but rather on something else instead. This is by far the broadest category of categorization of evil as well over 3/4ths of all supervillains can be included under this category (Bane, Captain Cold, Captain Boomerang, Heatwave, Javelin, Sportsmaster, Deathstroke, Deadshot, Black Manta, Brother Blood, Merlyn, Parasite, Metallo, Penguin and many many more all fall under this category).

Identifiably evil characters do not need to revel in their evil and whilst they won't deny their actions evil they'll generally have some degree of excuse for why it's okay or dismiss the question itself as stupid. They'll have a reason for their crimes but it's not one they'll attempt to justify as really being the moral high ground.

There's a lot of range within these characters and they're often the easiest ones to have take up different roles depending on what you need them for. It's difficult to parse something that's a universal bit of advice given these characters but I think the one key element that you can get to portraying these characters is that you should never have the crux of their story be about morality. The hero doesn't need to debate them and their evil does not need to be brought to the forefront of a story or made explicitly clear to the audience.

Ideally Evil
Ideally evil is the last kind of evil character and it's simultaneously the hardest and easiest to categorize. An ideally evil character is a character who in some way is meant to embody evil. Characters like Trigon or Darkseid fall under this category. There is a bit of overlap between this category and inherently evil characters but the key distinction I believe ought to be made is that these characters are meant to represent a concept beyond themselves and in a sense embody evil.

Because of this whilst ideally evil characters aren't going to have their morality explored, their character traits are used to explore something about a facet of evil or the nature of evil. Darkseid's constant ambition and cruel disregard of those beneath him is meant to highlight that the evil he represents is in some way tied to those concepts. Trigon's hatred of all life is meant to mark him as a sort of apocalyptic evil that focuses on scope as opposed to personal cruelty.

In any case ideally evil characters are where you need to get a little philosophical and thematic in your portrayal of them as characters as you're quite literally using them to represent a concept within the story. As such their behavior, characterization and the actions they take ought to be considered within the greater scope of what you want to say about evil in what you are writing. Don't be afraid to have fun with the character and use them in stories without micromanaging everything but be aware that their behavior ought to be in line with what you think evil or at least an aspect of evil would act like if personified.
 
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