- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Absolutely nothing can go wrong with this plan.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Absolutely nothing can go wrong with this plan.
- Location
- United States of America
That's not accurate actually. The Greater Qi Cards have 3 charges of the technique that was stored in them. We were able to use 2 summons of worms from our card because we didn't need to refresh the qi card we had.
Also, we didn't have 2 qi cards filled with worms, we only had one. One with worms, one with HRA, and one with Cai's buff.
This was the winning plan summary at the top of week 14.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Discord from that night said:
And there we have it, found the quotation
So yeah, nobody's seen her Domain Weapon yet.
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... I am beginning to loathe Discord. It's name seems horrifically accurate.
I even pinged you
I might be entirely wrong but the way I read it means that both the victim and the buffer need to suceed.
Once again I might be wrong but I expected him to be able to build stacks while we fly and once we need it sweep down to him and get healed instantly.
That was FVM itself.
Elegy is to prevent her spirit from buffing her.
And lastly I believe that if we are about to down dharitri she will simply flee under earth.
I believe that my previous post and this answer your issues, if not I am sorry for missing them, please ask them again.
I am still wondering wether or not to use Cai card twice in succession to ensure we do remove her armor tho.
Nothing in that quote indicates that the spear couldn't be her flying weapon... It just says she would use her flying weapon if she caught us, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that she was already using it.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
...
she was using her spear against us.
Are you suggesting she was attacking us unarmed despite the narrative clearly stating she was stabbing us with her murder-blood spear?
Must be a heck of a Domain Weapon if she could use it as a Second Realm cultivator.
What? In that quote Yrs said that she would attack us with her flying weapon if she caught us. Nowhere does it say that she hadn't already attacked us with it.
Anyway, I'm not really saying that the spear is definitely her flying weapon. What I'm saying is that the quote doesn't actually prove anything.
Or it just wasn't her flying weapon at that time?
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The context of that quote was from the Crimson Princess interrupt. Yrs explained that Sun was holding back, as we also saw in the update, she only used her spear and a the tech "Red Thorn Heartseeker" first, when that did not work she used her spear and the techs "Scarlet Devil Armament+Flower Goddess' Dance" and at that point LQ ran off. Here is where that quote comes from, she was going to use both the Flower Goddess dance and her domain weapon if she caught LQ again. Thankfully she did not.
So no she did not use her domain weapon, unless yrs outright lied to us.
So rather than getting a Domain Weapon on top of her spear thats generated the same way as her other equipment
She instead as the ability to waste two equipment slots on the same item while also tying it to an Art?
At a certain, the simplest answer has to be applied: That we simply havent seen Lilings Domain Weapon yet.
And once again you give me a new reason to curse your defeat of the Sharp Note
ONORE RODENTO!
The thing is that shutting down Liling's sustain is honestly pointless in this scenario, because we aren't going to be lasting long enough and doing enough damage for it to matter. If this was a group fight, and we were playing support, then yeah, absolutely dropping FVM would be the correct choice.
But that isn't the case.
We pretty much have to spend the first two turns tanking up if we don't want to die super fast.
Past that we can try to score points by going on the offense, but whatever gains we make are likely to be limited. If we can't get Dharitri down fast we're screwed. One of the potential advantages of going after her with the Cai card is that we could possibly just hit her health boxes directly, and so possibly take her out much faster than otherwise. If it takes too long though, we're probably going to be in trouble since Sun will just take us out anyway.
But that isn't the case.
We pretty much have to spend the first two turns tanking up if we don't want to die super fast.
Past that we can try to score points by going on the offense, but whatever gains we make are likely to be limited. If we can't get Dharitri down fast we're screwed. One of the potential advantages of going after her with the Cai card is that we could possibly just hit her health boxes directly, and so possibly take her out much faster than otherwise. If it takes too long though, we're probably going to be in trouble since Sun will just take us out anyway.
Why is 6 dice worth 1 action? The Cai card is a strong tech but it costs an action which is literally the worst possible cost in a race.
If the plan is to nuke someone down, regardless of the target, we're better off using Hoarfrost Caress repeatedly then alternating it. A repeating 50 no-auto-disadvantage DV8 AP8 x4 is likely better than the same but at 56 x2. Each turn we give her is another defensive buff and we aren't likely to dispel them even with Cai's art. Let's say Liling can buff +6 each turn and we have a 1 in 3 chance to dispel, that's -4+6 an average of 2 we're gaining each time we use the dispel. Meanwhile we're still taking damage in those turns.
For example, Meizhen's defensive dice when we tried to fight her did not exceed 50 under SEA. On the other hand we took enough damage against Meizhen to bring us to knockout in three turns. Granted we were not as tanky then and the monsters will be better still, but the assumption that we will even get 4-5 total turns is incredibly iffy. Given this, I find turns to be a far more precious resource than dice. Even if all we want to do is gank Dhartiri before we go down we still value turns before anything else.
If we want to go offensive, it seems to me the best bet we have is MotV+dissonance+GCD/TRD+twilight beauty into SEA+HC+GCD/TRD into PC/HRA+HC into more HC turns. DWV from the horror, Ashfall and heals from Zhengui.
If we make it to the point where we're on the verge of stabilizing - that is to say, Liling needs to expend actions controlling us rather than damaging us (and this is what happens if Dhartiri goes down too) - then Cai's art becomes useful because it can tip those scales, and the same goes for reapplying Diap, or taking a turn off for IPF or TRU, but in the initial turns it's a race. It's not a race we're likely to win, but we have better odds committing to the race than trying to lean on a dispel check we can't make and a 1 in 2 attack while taking 1 in 1 ourselves. Leading with FVM hopefully with first strike means Liling could be forced to dispel, which can itself help an action economy race, and adds another strong attack every turn (Dissonance is almost as legit as HC dice-wise).
That's also why I don't much like tank plans, because they concede actions and can't exceed incoming damage after turn 1 anyway (and not even turn 1 if we don't go first). Yes, best turn 1 defense is TRU+TRD/HRA+GCD+Twilight Beauty+Ashfall+Horror DWV but I would like to see the argument as to how you win from that position. It's a setup for a long fight, but a long fight means too much incoming damage for us to handle.
We can transition to a long sustain-fight once we generate an advantage of some sort (Dhartiri down, Diap sticks and stays stuck, we discover her perception or dispel resist sucks), but it would be a mistake to immediately go for a long plan because we start in a losing position.
If the plan is to nuke someone down, regardless of the target, we're better off using Hoarfrost Caress repeatedly then alternating it. A repeating 50 no-auto-disadvantage DV8 AP8 x4 is likely better than the same but at 56 x2. Each turn we give her is another defensive buff and we aren't likely to dispel them even with Cai's art. Let's say Liling can buff +6 each turn and we have a 1 in 3 chance to dispel, that's -4+6 an average of 2 we're gaining each time we use the dispel. Meanwhile we're still taking damage in those turns.
For example, Meizhen's defensive dice when we tried to fight her did not exceed 50 under SEA. On the other hand we took enough damage against Meizhen to bring us to knockout in three turns. Granted we were not as tanky then and the monsters will be better still, but the assumption that we will even get 4-5 total turns is incredibly iffy. Given this, I find turns to be a far more precious resource than dice. Even if all we want to do is gank Dhartiri before we go down we still value turns before anything else.
If we want to go offensive, it seems to me the best bet we have is MotV+dissonance+GCD/TRD+twilight beauty into SEA+HC+GCD/TRD into PC/HRA+HC into more HC turns. DWV from the horror, Ashfall and heals from Zhengui.
If we make it to the point where we're on the verge of stabilizing - that is to say, Liling needs to expend actions controlling us rather than damaging us (and this is what happens if Dhartiri goes down too) - then Cai's art becomes useful because it can tip those scales, and the same goes for reapplying Diap, or taking a turn off for IPF or TRU, but in the initial turns it's a race. It's not a race we're likely to win, but we have better odds committing to the race than trying to lean on a dispel check we can't make and a 1 in 2 attack while taking 1 in 1 ourselves. Leading with FVM hopefully with first strike means Liling could be forced to dispel, which can itself help an action economy race, and adds another strong attack every turn (Dissonance is almost as legit as HC dice-wise).
That's also why I don't much like tank plans, because they concede actions and can't exceed incoming damage after turn 1 anyway (and not even turn 1 if we don't go first). Yes, best turn 1 defense is TRU+TRD/HRA+GCD+Twilight Beauty+Ashfall+Horror DWV but I would like to see the argument as to how you win from that position. It's a setup for a long fight, but a long fight means too much incoming damage for us to handle.
We can transition to a long sustain-fight once we generate an advantage of some sort (Dhartiri down, Diap sticks and stays stuck, we discover her perception or dispel resist sucks), but it would be a mistake to immediately go for a long plan because we start in a losing position.
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Because of the possibility of negating a defensive buff like Zhenguis Molten Shell or whatever enabled Dhartiri to not die from being melted by Cuis venom on top of that perfect damage.
The other best way to get that kind of dice quickly would be worms ganging up on Dhartiri, but that isnt likely to outlast the turn in which they'd be summoned
Mmm, I disagree. I would say that, due to our build, all our offensive options are very much up in the air as to whether or not we accomplish much before going down. The most reliable thing we can do to look good is play to our strengths and try to last as long as possible.
We already know that Liling is kitted out to handle superior offenses to our own (Renxiang) so assuming we can overperform outside of our area of expertise isnt the best avenue for victory against a superior opponent.
It worked on Ji Rong because we read his build near-perfectly, and thus exploited his lack of AoE effects to let us equal him in spike damage.
We dont have that luxury with Liling, so rather than attempting to outpace or hard counter her, we need to apply a reductive, attrition style approach. That means denying her of resources, and that train of thought inevitably leads back to Dhartiri, and how she is an obstacle to Ling Qi playing to her strengths with such an approach.
On nearly every level, Dhartiri is Lilings primary answer to Ling Qis abilities. Save stabbing her in the face.
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Due to how the clash resolve it might very well be. If the defensives dices are close those 6 dices could change a failed clash into one with 3 semi perfect damage (plus what's repeated). It might be more efficient to boost the first clash with it and then only use the debuffs from HC afterward, tho.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
In an attempt to calibrate true levels of certainty as compared to expressed levels of certainty...
Do you have any real basis for this other than "It sounds cool, and sort of in-character"?
I said probably for a reason-I found it more likely than not, not that I've read Yrsillar's notes.
Reasoning mostly. If it were a ranged weapon, she would have thrown it. She chased us for a long time, and a ranged Domain weapon that can be outrun is pretty worthless.
So, taking the thought that it's a melee weapon, what would she need? First, a way to pin down enemies. Remember, we outran her, even using escape talismans, when we still hadn't broken through. She clearly isn't speed focused. So she needs a way to keep people in close and keep them there.
As for being able to turn physical attacks spiritual, it's some I noticed as a potential weakness, but figured she had to have some way of dealing with. Every attack we've ever seen her use has been physical. Even her spirit uses physical attacks. However, I have a tough time believing that something like the jungle doesn't spawn some form of intangible spirits. Disease spirits, hungry ghosts, even rain elementals should all be a part of the natural ecology there. If she doesn't have some way of dealing with them she's got a massive hole in her defenses. And since she's all in on melee physical attacks, it would be best to find some way of using those to deal with spirits.
Put it all together, and you have a melee weapon capable of holding someone in place for a round or two capable of dealing with spirits. While it could be a chain or a net or something similar, a whip fulfills the requirements nicely while fitting with the nature asthetic.
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Also it would complete her Bloodthirster ensemble.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
With regards to the flight, I think it's clear at this point that if we fly, we have to definitely stay within Zhengui's Ashfall anyway. Then it just becomes a question if the 3 Qi per turn we spend to be lowish in the air are more of an inconvenience to us than us being in the air is a cost and distraction to Sun Liling. Remember that with the gank Dhaltiri plan Sun Liling's hp bar is her Qi, and Ling Qi's hp bar is her health boxes (since we assume that Sun will be as good or better at perfect damage than Ji Rong was.)
I think it could go either way, really, but still I lean to pro-flying just because if Sun has a special response to it (rather than just jumping up high, and that itself may well cost 1 Qi or something) that would be nice to reveal. It's not actually clear that 3 of our Qi for 1 of Sun's is even a bad trade due to how this fight works. OTOH, if Sun actually is convinced to use ranged attacks because of it (maybe just due to her habits or narratives or what have you) then it is well worth it due to our FZ bonuses against ranged.
WRT tanking up vs. instant aggro, and wrt the Cai dispel, that's another can of Worms that's difficult to decipher. My thinking is that Dhaltiri is usually coming out kind of late anyways, so I like the idea of tanking up first just because Ling Qi won't be confusedly trying to aggro a mob who hasn't shown up to the field yet. Tanking up plays to Sun's narrative convention of consistently sicking Dhalwhatever on the enemy Spirit Beast turn 2-3, by sort of wasting time (in the most productive way possible) until that happens and we can execute our plan.
I absolutely think we should alternate HC with Cai dispel, but I think there are reasonable arguments each way as to which we should use first. I think with Zhengui healbotting it's quite possible Dhally girl will not have any good defensive techs up when we first strike, which would be a good argument to HC, provoke the semiperfect defense response, and then use the Cai dispel to remove that tech and let the HC echo damage through unblocked. From there obviously we alternate HC/Cai again until we are dead to Sun or Dhal is down.
The main advantage to HC first is it'll provoke out the best defensive tech to stop HC, which we can then dispel after getting surprise damage through from the echo. The main advantage to Cai first is if we believe that defensive tech will already be up, or if we believe Dhal is so tanky that we need the bonus dice to do much of anything.
I think it could go either way, really, but still I lean to pro-flying just because if Sun has a special response to it (rather than just jumping up high, and that itself may well cost 1 Qi or something) that would be nice to reveal. It's not actually clear that 3 of our Qi for 1 of Sun's is even a bad trade due to how this fight works. OTOH, if Sun actually is convinced to use ranged attacks because of it (maybe just due to her habits or narratives or what have you) then it is well worth it due to our FZ bonuses against ranged.
WRT tanking up vs. instant aggro, and wrt the Cai dispel, that's another can of Worms that's difficult to decipher. My thinking is that Dhaltiri is usually coming out kind of late anyways, so I like the idea of tanking up first just because Ling Qi won't be confusedly trying to aggro a mob who hasn't shown up to the field yet. Tanking up plays to Sun's narrative convention of consistently sicking Dhalwhatever on the enemy Spirit Beast turn 2-3, by sort of wasting time (in the most productive way possible) until that happens and we can execute our plan.
I absolutely think we should alternate HC with Cai dispel, but I think there are reasonable arguments each way as to which we should use first. I think with Zhengui healbotting it's quite possible Dhally girl will not have any good defensive techs up when we first strike, which would be a good argument to HC, provoke the semiperfect defense response, and then use the Cai dispel to remove that tech and let the HC echo damage through unblocked. From there obviously we alternate HC/Cai again until we are dead to Sun or Dhal is down.
The main advantage to HC first is it'll provoke out the best defensive tech to stop HC, which we can then dispel after getting surprise damage through from the echo. The main advantage to Cai first is if we believe that defensive tech will already be up, or if we believe Dhal is so tanky that we need the bonus dice to do much of anything.
Honestly, the best argument for going with the Cai dispel tech first is that it lets us more smoothly build up a Pressure Crack boost to assist the HC the next turn as well, which will give us the biggest hit in one turn, thus allowing us to pivot more smoothly back towards addressing Liling or whatever response comes up after we make that move.
She has sideboard techs keep in mind. Odds are good she didn't miss Head and Leg Day for Ling Qi.
We must be annoying to sideboard for...