fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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Someone watching all our fights would likely come to the conclusion that we are sideboarding.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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- Original Fantasy
Honestly, I'm hoping she did. That would mean her combat power is lower than it otherwise should be.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Ah I forgot that. Thank you.I even pinged you
I might be entirely wrong but the way I read it means that both the victim and the buffer need to suceed.
Once again I might be wrong but I expected him to be able to build stacks while we fly and once we need it sweep down to him and get healed instantly.
That was FVM itself.
Elegy is to prevent her spirit from buffing her.
And lastly I believe that if we are about to down dharitri she will simply flee under earth.
I believe that my previous post and this answer your issues, if not I am sorry for missing them, please ask them again.
I am still wondering wether or not to use Cai card twice in succession to ensure we do remove her armor tho.
I'll be clear, neither of these posts provide answers which I think are sufficiently backed up to be satisfying for my issues/concerns.
If both the buffer and target ally need to succeed, that'd be nice, though it doesn't make much sense when you think about what has to be going on between two characters trapped in this.
Dharitri diving into the earth would save her from some of our damage, and there's honestly not a whole lot we can do about it, though by all indications it denies the singing buffs Dharitri can provide since we haven't seen her do anything but the flowers while under the earth, and she always emerges after setting those up.
If it is the case that it is just FVM that blocks the qi flow to Sun, that'd be nice, because that means in your scenario of us damaging Dharitri enough to send her into the dirt but not defeat her she's rendered null except for prodding attacks in both of our plans because I specify using FVM in round 4.
As to flying high enough to be inconvenient and letting Zhengui build up stacks of Ashfall, it does not sound like a good plan to me for several reasons. The first is that it gives up Ashfall's defensive abilities. The second is that it actually leaves Zhengui and the Horror open as easy to attack options, without dangling Ling Qi as a more important target(which can also kinda survive her sustained attention if everyone works together, for a short time). Liling's easiest move then is to sweep the board of the Horror and then start whaling on Zhengui, and she's capable enough to realize that.
The increased ranged defenses are probably the most solid point in this section, because based on my read of how our opponents have styled their own trumps, is to support core elements of whatever Dao/Path they pursue to beat people up. Flying has never been one of those for Liling, because by all indications she hasn't needed it to do actionable damage to Cai in Redux and offscreen in Growing Pains, and her most hated enemy in Meizhen is to her view not capable of flight herself. Given those two things and Sun's own personality which puts a lot of stock in putting the hurt on her opponent, I can extrapolate that she doesn't have much to show in that field.
And given how Ashfall plus flying works, I don't expect the inconvenience for Sun to really even exist.
I don't have any further commentary on the rest.
I have a problem with this section very specifically, because it assumes that GCD and TRD are enough to survive the first exchange with Liling. It would be against Ji Rong, as we saw in our fight we only really needed TRD at first, but by all indications Rong is Liling's minimum due to her pedigree and further advancement along the path of facestabbing. It then moves into an action combo which is not possible in the turn order without being spread over multiple turns, unless you are just marking they are there.
The thing is here, is it actually possible for Ling Qi to stay up till round 3, if we go with this option? By my read of it, it is not, based on the damage from the Princess Interrupt. If you are going for an idea of just having TRD and GCD in the first two rounds I have to question the validity of it extremely harshly. Meizhen kicked our ass explicitly when we had less than the full suite of TRF up and had Crescent Dancer hanging in there too, and she was holding back on the nastiest damage because she was doing bashing damage.
I figure it is thus even worse against Liling, because she is more offensively focused than Meizhen is, both by temperament and style of fighting.
It's mostly the issue that then we will have a Sun with all her arms out and probably go down quite fast. So we would have gained very little from focusing on dharitri as Sun wouldn't have to reveal anything new to beat us up.
Zhengui and the horror tanking is a good thing. The horror is ultimately disposable and zhengui is a tank. We should as much as is possible let them tank for us as they are here for that.
If Sun decide to lose 3 or 4 turn on zhengui, it's to our benefit. Same if she lose 1 or 2 on the horror.
It's exactly why we put him in front of Ji Rong after all.
Edit : On the defense loss, it's an acceptable loss in exchange for not having to deal with dharithri attacks.
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zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
The worst part is that Ling Qi isn't sideboarding herself. Someone who's just been watching our tournament fights might assume that Ling Qi likes to switch up techs to show off a different strategy each round, but the thing is that Ling Qi always has a wide variety of options available compared to almost any other equivalent cultivator (thank you Talent 6 and White Room).
It's been mentioned before, but the thought of fighting Ling Qi is horrifying for most normal Red and Yellow cultivators because barring some really extreme circumstances she can just shut them down completely. Even early Green cultivators struggle because Ling Qi has so many tricks on hand that she's going to have something to mess up your day no matter what kind of build you're using. Just look at all the fights she's had against Green opponents in the tournament:
VS Shen Hu in the prelims: "You create a giant mud pit of death? Fuck you, I'll just fly and attack you from out of range. Also, fuck your debuff. I have a fairy in my head! ... other opponents? What other opponents? That's a weird way to spell 'living qi batteries'."
VS Chu Song: "You want to stab me in the face? Fuck you, I'm flying away and setting up my death mist of doom. Also, I'll drop a legendary spirit with a unique, never before seen elemental set onto your head."
VS Ji Rong: "Oh no, I can't fly away. Whatever shall I do? How about I just facetank your alpha strike and drown you in hentai worms? Also, I'll finish you off by making you dance with moon fairies for my amusement."
I get the feeling that the Sect Elders must love having someone like Ling Qi in the tournament because in every fight so far she's revealed something new and different to shake things up and make things exciting. Not only does it keep the audience entertained, it makes the Argent Sect itself look good because they can point to her and go "In just one year, we can turn a mere mortal into something like this. Imagine how much your kids could benefit by learning from us!"
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End of source of sustain, loss of primary counter to perception tests and tracking, personal affront and loss of composure for taking out her longtime partner (how would Ling Qi react if Zhengui was taken out x several more years)
Claiming that Liling would literally shrug off Dharitri being successfully ganked seems pretty disingenuous to me.
"Everything For Family" after all, and I would be rather surprised if Liling didnt consider her spirit beast to fall under that umbrella.
Zhengui is worse at tanking than Ling Qi is. He has no semiperfect defenses, a bit less perfect defense even with buffs from Ling Qi, fewer dice, and as much as a 6 auto penalty from cultivation vs Liling. Ji Rong was punching through our 9 Armor and 3 Perfect Defence. If we spend turn 1 defense buffing, Zhengui will have 13 armor, 2 PD, and 1 damage mitigation at the end of his turn. probably 12 armor when she hits him. Sun Liling definitely has more AP than Ji Rong, should at least have comparable bonus Perfect damage, and has 3 times as many autos versus him compared to versus Ling Qi.
It's actually not quite as bad as I thought, but with the debuffs he'll be picking up from Sun Liling's hits and her spirit (she can use AoE debuffs), Zhengui lasts 2 turns.
BungieONI
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It also doesn't help that he has eleven healthboxes to Ling Qi's 14.
Our boy needs to get swoler.
BungieONI
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That he is! But we also have ridiculous expectations, so someone in this arrangement is shit outta luck
Okay, so, I think I want to lay out my plan in as much detail as possible. I will preface this by saying that getting the Red String escape talisman is actually super necessary.
Turn 1:
We use the Red String to get a kilometer away.
Turn 2:
Run even further. Since we literally can't do anything else, there's no reason not to keep running at this point. Also, we would be looking for a spot for Zhengui to do his boulder impression.
Turn 3:
Manifest Zhengui and FVM. Zhengui uses Stone in Soil (Assuming he can on the turn he manifests, otherwise move to next turn)
Turn 4:
Manifest Traveler's End. Zhengui uses Ingraining roots.
And here's where it gets tricky, because what happens now depends on what Sun Liling is doing. If she takes the time to run buffs, she'll still be a couple of turns out. In that case, we'd continue to buff up with TRF. If she decides to chase as hard as she can, she's only a couple turns out. In that case, we TRD.
When Sun Liling moves into the mist, we immediately retreat, harassing her. More importantly though, we start taking her towards Zhengui. Of course, I'm expecting her to notice that we're luring her. My hope is that she releases Dhartiri to find and attack Zhengui while she tries to deal with us. If it takes more than a single turn for Dhartiri to find and attack Zhengui, Zhengui sets up his double action buff.
When Dhartiri attacks, Zhengui reacts with BBV and WG. The nice thing is that Dhartiri, while strong, doesn't seem to be a Strength character. We would be using Starlight Elegy on Sun Liling. Even if it only distracts her for one turn, that's all we need. More importantly, we're going to be attacking with Hoarfrost Caress on the next turn, with Zhengui using BBV again. If that doesn't finish her off, the third turn is where everything comes together. Hoarfrost Caress will have two stacks of damage, BBV will have three, and the Minds Apart buff should be active again, allowing Zhengui to use Spearing Roots at the same time. If that doesn't take out Dhartiri, I can't imagine what would. It doesn't matter how strong your regen is if you get hit hard enough to obliterate you in one turn.
After that we move to a more conventional plan for Sun.
Is there a lot that could go wrong? Yes. Absolutely. But with this plan, we would be fighting in grounds of our choosing, and hopefully exploiting the psychological weaknesses of our enemies.
Turn 1:
We use the Red String to get a kilometer away.
Turn 2:
Run even further. Since we literally can't do anything else, there's no reason not to keep running at this point. Also, we would be looking for a spot for Zhengui to do his boulder impression.
Turn 3:
Manifest Zhengui and FVM. Zhengui uses Stone in Soil (Assuming he can on the turn he manifests, otherwise move to next turn)
Turn 4:
Manifest Traveler's End. Zhengui uses Ingraining roots.
And here's where it gets tricky, because what happens now depends on what Sun Liling is doing. If she takes the time to run buffs, she'll still be a couple of turns out. In that case, we'd continue to buff up with TRF. If she decides to chase as hard as she can, she's only a couple turns out. In that case, we TRD.
When Sun Liling moves into the mist, we immediately retreat, harassing her. More importantly though, we start taking her towards Zhengui. Of course, I'm expecting her to notice that we're luring her. My hope is that she releases Dhartiri to find and attack Zhengui while she tries to deal with us. If it takes more than a single turn for Dhartiri to find and attack Zhengui, Zhengui sets up his double action buff.
When Dhartiri attacks, Zhengui reacts with BBV and WG. The nice thing is that Dhartiri, while strong, doesn't seem to be a Strength character. We would be using Starlight Elegy on Sun Liling. Even if it only distracts her for one turn, that's all we need. More importantly, we're going to be attacking with Hoarfrost Caress on the next turn, with Zhengui using BBV again. If that doesn't finish her off, the third turn is where everything comes together. Hoarfrost Caress will have two stacks of damage, BBV will have three, and the Minds Apart buff should be active again, allowing Zhengui to use Spearing Roots at the same time. If that doesn't take out Dhartiri, I can't imagine what would. It doesn't matter how strong your regen is if you get hit hard enough to obliterate you in one turn.
After that we move to a more conventional plan for Sun.
Is there a lot that could go wrong? Yes. Absolutely. But with this plan, we would be fighting in grounds of our choosing, and hopefully exploiting the psychological weaknesses of our enemies.
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Sorry at this point I just stopped reading. You have yet to address concerns I have raised about how using the red string talisman would look to the audience.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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There's this, and the already mentioned point of such escape talisman tricks letting Sun and Dharitri buff up as high as they want. One of those buff cycles we might be able to take for a limited time, but not both.
Letting them both have impunity like that is basically set up for a very stupid loss.
The interaction of defense vs offense is quite interesting here, especially if we have initiative.
If we assume that Sun pops an attack + offensive instant buff each turn, her power increases linearly until she runs out of buffs (or has to start refreshing). She has two techs giving bonuses at turn 1, 3 in turn 2, 4 in turn 3 etc.
Now look at us if we go full defense and use the horror. We have 4 buffs turn 1. We have 7 turn 2. Depending on if we go to attack or set up FVM we could be at 8-9 turn 3.
Then we're capped. In practical terms, our defense only gets slightly stronger turn 3, and not at all past that. We hit peak defense way before Sun has finished ramping up her offense.
So, if we compare this we're:
To sum up, while turn 1 isn't the greatest, I think a plausible case can be made that we will be strongest ~turns 2 -3. Running away to push things into turns 4-5 may not benefit us that much.
If we assume that Sun pops an attack + offensive instant buff each turn, her power increases linearly until she runs out of buffs (or has to start refreshing). She has two techs giving bonuses at turn 1, 3 in turn 2, 4 in turn 3 etc.
Now look at us if we go full defense and use the horror. We have 4 buffs turn 1. We have 7 turn 2. Depending on if we go to attack or set up FVM we could be at 8-9 turn 3.
Then we're capped. In practical terms, our defense only gets slightly stronger turn 3, and not at all past that. We hit peak defense way before Sun has finished ramping up her offense.
So, if we compare this we're:
- 4 v 2
- 7 v 3
- 8/9 v 4
- ... v 5
- ... v 6 (probably capped by need to refresh here)
To sum up, while turn 1 isn't the greatest, I think a plausible case can be made that we will be strongest ~turns 2 -3. Running away to push things into turns 4-5 may not benefit us that much.
First, getting this far means that the audience has already set their general opinions on us. Whether they approve or not, the narrative is set. Now the only question is the end of the story.
So, let me turn this around on you. Considering that escape talismans are a common thing, and that it has been extremely well established that Sun Liling specializes in melee, and that we prefer a more mid-range style of fighting, and that Sun is higher leveled than us in every way, what kind of idiot would stay at melee range to duke it out? That is lunacy. Or to put it in other terms, if you see a bard facing a barbarian, do you respect the one that nopes the fuck out less? Or do you laugh at the one that draws their dagger and attacks? Even if both die, one was trying while the other was committing painful but quick suicide.
Finally, they won't say shit. After all, half the reason Sun is a threat is the absolutely ridiculous equipment her Grandpa gave her. In comparison, a simple escape talisman that's actually appropriate for a Green to have is literally nothing. The only one with any stones to throw here is Meizahn. And frankly, I find the whole concern a little silly, given that we have seen nobles using their wealth to win all the time, and in the most obvious of ways. Resources are just another form of power. Sure, some will say that it was really the Cai that gave us the win, but...so? I don't care about the glory, CRX and Oppression Mom can have it. I just want to hurt Bai and have a shot at winning.
Setting up for them requires wounds. Engaging them in immediate combat is what lets them set up! If you want to short circuit their buffing, GTFO! Every thing we have ever seen says that they require blood to set up! And if they start feeding on themselves, so much the better! It means less for us to chew through at the end!
And here's a thought for you-when have you ever seen Sun heal? She can regen her qi, we know that. But actual healing? I can't remember a single instance. I think any wounds she does to herself stick. And stick hard. And even if you're right and she has some weird cheat that negates the main downside of her overpowered moves (I doubt it), that's still fine. We'll still have found out valuable information!
Sun Liling buffs while stabbing us in the face. The benefit from taking distance is that we get to complete our buffs without getting stabbed. We don't have anything like her synergy of buffing and stabbing.
I'm really skeptical of the idea that we benefit from getting into a damage race with Sun Liling from melee distance.
At least the escape -> fort up plan will have the benefit of revealing how Liling will approach a more drawn out fight and likely revealing how far her buff chain goes. Right now we don't know because she's ganking people so quickly. Confirming or disproving that Meizhen wins the long game would be useful. If Liling's face considerations push her to Leeroy Jenkins us then we'd have a ghost of a chance of actually roughing her up some.
The idea that using a one off item to reset the beginning of the fight to our preferred range loses face doesn't hold up. We're the underdog. We're obviously not a brawler. We would not be trying to cheese the system (i.e. attack -> escape, attack->escape, attack -> escape). We would not be using a pricey item to harm or even impede our opponent. We would not be doing anything close to pay2win. Pay2 start the fight farther apart is hardly shameful.
Maybe if the quest imports some of those bystanders from typical xianxia nonsense we'd get some "you trash, too scared to fight Sun Liling head on" type comments but I don't think anybody sensible would think that way.
Honestly, if the sect actually gave a shit about being fair beyond the first round or two, they would have the prelims as they are, then toss everyone into a Hunger Games style competition. Don't just test face punching, test skills. Test loyalty. Test your ability to organize and stay organized under the worst of conditions. Test your ability to choose time and place. Test your preparations.
Like, Shen got completely fucked by this format. If one person has a right to complain, it's him.
Like, Shen got completely fucked by this format. If one person has a right to complain, it's him.
People keep saying Liling needs to hurt things to put up her buffs, but I don't think we've actually seen that. She pulls her own blood out of her ass just fine, and even expends her spears during ranged attacks that has them explode or simply not bother with retrieval. Could someone provide me with a source on this, because I'm getting very strong player theory vibes from this.
As for healing, Sun Liling's wounds visibly closed during the first fight we saw her in, after dropping her flowers. She has better healing than we do in this fight, because she's throwing around aggravated damage and we're not. Sure, Ling Qi downgrades 2 points of that to lethal per round, but Zhengui doesn't benefit from that. Not that he can last long enough under assault for 1 health box per turn healing to matter.
Oh, definitely. But we haven't gotten fed any answers. We're looking at the narrative and trying to figure out what's going on. That's all we can do. Yrsillar has been very tight lipped about all three of the monster's true abilities.
Right, I forgot about that. Still, the mist counters that and it needs an actual source of qi to work. She can't just drop it and go, the text was very explicit that it was vacuuming the leftovers from all the combat.
That's one of the reasons no part of my plan involves engaging her in melee.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
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Ji Rong was punching through 10 Armour, 3 Perfect Defence and 2 ablative healthbox if we assume our peak. When he did his Super Saiyan attack and we got our charred guts, we were either at 10 Armour/3PD or 9Armour/3PD/2ablativeHP.
Thankfully, Zhengui will also benefit from ablative HP, but sadly he has 6 autos versus him compared to 2 versus Ling Qi. If Sun Liling gets 2 damage through our 1 damage negation, 10 armour, 3PD and 2 ablative Healthbox, Zhengui would get 5 damage through his 1 damage negation 13 armour 2PD and 2 ablative Healthbox at equal dice. Zhengui's dice are actually fairly competitive with ours (54 vs melee compared to our 57-59) and he also benefits from Ashfall/Mist and most debuff on Liling. He doesn't benefit from IPF though.
Wait, 14 Healthbox?
Stamina 5 + Base 3 + Argent Soul 2 + Silver Breakthrough 2 + Bronze Breakthrough 1 + Wood Element Breakthrough 1 + Zhengui 1 = 15 Healthbox? Is that correct @yrsillar?
We talked about this before, but this is why I think Ji Rong went down so fast against us. From the escalation of damage done against us every turns, it's fairly clear he always used his instant to buff his damage and he never used a full action for defensive purposes. This means that while by turn 4 we had 7 defensive buffs equivalent, he had only 4 of those, and he had to fend off dissonance ticks and zhengui/worms attacks every turns.
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She definitely doesn't need to stab people to use the majority of her buffs. It's wholly plausible that she has buffs/passives that only gain their full effect after damaging a target, but that's nothing extraordinary. Ling Qi has that too.
Edit: Oh right, and Zhengui's rock trick won't trick anyone. It's like less than a 5% chance of working or something.
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Or that she spends her own hp. Because she can heal with Dharitri she can afford to given time
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- his hidden lair
On the one hand, Dhartiri is a horrific monster that's likely heavily associated with the gribblies that have killed a bunch of her family.
On the other... well if the shoe fits wear it. I for one, do not actually want to consider too much what Sun Shao's domain is or what Sun Liling's will become. Although I suppose when you get down to it, a true home demands a family doesn't it?
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- Required Location
*screams e(x)ternally*
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- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Hangwind your ideas here seem a little crazy. Correct me if I am wrong but the first part of this statement says to me that people can't change their opinion. When some does something stupid you think less of them. Everyone's opinion of everyone else is constantly changing. The longer you know someone the less radical those shifts are. The audience has known us for about 3 days. We have set a good first impression which is important, but that will not cover up a massive mistake now.
Next you really point out about how I want to charge straight into Sun! Wow! That is the reverse of the idea I proposed which was to try and create space in a very specific manner. You would know this had you read my plan but you didn't so stuck up in your idea that we must do everything possible to win. Your idea is that we must win at any cost. No matter the cost to reputation. No matter the material cost. No matter the odds. This is an idea I fundamentally disagree with. When the cost of victory becomes too great or the odds of victory become too long then a shift to loss prevention/mitigation strategy needs to happen. (By the way Hangwind do keep reading past this point as I explain why)
There is a very specific reason for this view point. One needs to understand when the game they are playing is a limited series, or a continual series. (And everything one does is a game) A limited series is like a chess game. Whether one wins or loses does not effect the starting spot of the next game. A continual series is the reverse where the spot that one ended up in at the end of one game changes the spot that one starts in the next game. Almost all games are of a limited series. Basketball, Baseball, Chess, Checkers. These are all limited series. However social games are a continual series. How one ends an argument with someone will change how the next argument with that person starts. How one diplomatic discussion ends will change how the next one will start. How one war ends will change how the next war starts.
Now we need to look at what is happening right now and decide if Ling Qi is playing a limited series or a continual series. It might look like a limited series because of the tourney structure. However I would argue that the tourney is the smallest part of the game Ling Qi is playing. I firmly believe that Ling Qi is playing a game of politics and economics. Every person watching us has a goal for this game. We see it in Han Jain's interlude when Han Fang states that Lord Han will be so happy with all the connections he is making. All these people here want to win the game being played out at the Argent sect. The way some one in the audience wins is by having the most amount of new political connections and trade deals set up. This then will improve the starting position of the next game they play back at their homes. Since Ling Qi has signed up with Cai the game has changed into this type of game. Ling Qi needs to be looking for ways to get as many political connections as she can because we don't have anything to trade with yet. However we know that in the future we will likely play a new game, one where winning is getting the best trade deal, with many of the people in the audience when Ling Qi sets up her fief. How we end this giant game happening at the Argent sect will change Ling Qi's starting spot for that future game.
Now how does this theory of continual game series apply to the match set before Ling Qi. If Ling Qi wins a massive advantage for every future game is reaped. However we need to put that advantage into context of the odds of getting that advantage. Since the odds of winning are very low the actually benefit from winning lowers substantially. Even though the payoff is great the odds are low and so the adjusted returns on a win are also low. Now lets take a look at the opposite end of the of the table, losing. Unlike winning, there are different types of losing. There is positive losing, neutral losing, and negative losing. The reason that there are these different types of losing is related to a resources in social games called reputation. As ones reputation increases it naturally improves the starting position of future social games even with people you may have never met. This is easily seen in Ling Qi's time at the sect. In the beginning people were dismissive of her and even tried to steal from her. As our positive reputation grew we began to auto win social encounters even with people we have never met! (For example we still have that favor from the guy we saved during growing pains. Even though we never met him and didn't talk to him he still gave us his name and a favor) This idea of growing a reputation is very important. A single bad thing said about us could set our reputation back a significant amount and hurt all future social games. Therefore it is important to avoid as many things that could set our reputation back or in other words we need to avoid a BAD reputation.
Now we get back to the idea of multiple types of losing. (Hang in there Hangwind. I know you hate talking about losing but this is all needed to explain loss mitigation strategies) If Ling Qi loses in a positive way than Ling Qi gets a better repuation. Losing in a positive way is fighting the good fight and being graceful upon a loss. These are all good things for Ling Qi to be know for. Losing in a neutral way doesn't help or hurt us. However losing in a negative way generates a bad reputation, such a lose would reveal poor character traits or cause people watching to think we have poor character traits. Having someone spend money on you and then losing is a negative loss. It looks like we begged for money and then still couldn't do anything even if that is not what happened. Therefore when we look at all the different ways to lose it becomes clear that we want a positive loss, or at the very worse a neutral loss.
Now we come to loss mitigation theory. The idea is that since there are different ways to lose we should work on getting the most beneficial result. In this case a we want a win, positive loss, or a neutral loss. Now we can think about the odds of each of these happening and the advantage gained from each one. Since the odds of winning are so low the advantage gained from going for that result are statistically low. However by contrast losing is much more likely and therefore any advantage gained will be statistically higher than it might otherwise be. There comes a point where the statistical gains from winning are less then the statistical gains from losing. This is when loss mitigation theory takes over as losing is statistical the way to get the greatest amount of gains for future games. However since there are different types of losing lose mitigation strategy attempts to get the best possible loss outcomes.
Now we are finally back to escape talisman idea. There has been no evidence provided by it's supporters as to how much it changes the odds. The only support given is that it gives us some more time. However, given the analysis provided by others it seems that such a strategy does not improve the odds by a great margin. The question then becomes; does it improve the odds by enough to statistically justify it. If we lose using such a strategy then the loss becomes a negative loss. It will appear to others as that we don't lose with grace, desperate for every scrap of advantage, and that we are willing to beg our liege for any advantage. I support this claim by using the example of the poor yellow who used that talisman and still lost. The whole thread mocked him for a while. This is the kind of bad reputation we have to avoid. Since the escape talisman only gives us a binary option win or a negative loss I strongly believe that it is statistically worst than any other plan which gives us the potential for all 4 options. Loss mitigation attempts as hard as it can to avoid a negative loss thus giving us an a better starting spot in all future games then a negative loss would give us.
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