Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
The puppet on strings rigidly obsessed with keeping Wrong Think tamped down and monofocused on playing to type while literally reforming herself as a concept via Wuxia Magic can, barring actual extreme stresses, be expected to continue playing to that type by maintaining that self control which she has let slip...
All of never?
Instability requires inconsistency of action, of mental state. These things are anathema to Cai Ranxiang. We have been given no evidence of them being concepts that apply to her.
Save your headcanon for yourself. Or present it as the wild speculation which it is.
Not this bad faith taken for granted self evident assumption you're choosing to go with. Until Yrsilar writes Cai being actually mentally unstable rather than having opinions you don't like your 'intuitive leaps' will only be that.
And ought to be treated as such. To present them as more than they are is bad faith argumentation. To use them to try and influence the vote is No better than sock puppets or drive by voting.
Uncompromising self-control resulting in what appears to be actual mental stability?
Like, the argument for "JUSTICE BOT BEEP BOOP" is dumb for its own reasons, just as the claims of "NOT MUH JUSTICE MUCH HYPOCRITE" are comparable to complaints about fictional characters or celebrities having relationships making them 'impure' but at least those are based in actual attempts at reading the character, even if they are uncharitable
This CRX being six inches from being a slasher movie villain argument is just unfounded because ultimately, Cai settled with Sun Liling and the shit she pulled with Cai was a far greater slap to the face and disruption of public order than anything Ling Qis done
Cai has space to be pragmatic. She tries to be. Thus she will continue to do so.
Its as simple as that.
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Cultivated and guided by her monster-of-a-mother?
- Location
- United States of America
Can we just drop it and let the salt levels die down a little. I'm sure things will be fine , now let's move on to a more relaxing and friendly conversation. Arts- (dodges thrown knife ) uhhhhh...I mean....
HUSBANDO WARS GO! GU TAI VS MUSCLEDADDY GAN !!
HUSBANDO WARS GO! GU TAI VS MUSCLEDADDY GAN !!
Oh dear people are influenced by their authority figures in life, le gasp what a shocking concept!
We better be careful! That Justice Owl Ancestor probably means there's Ziz bombs about since everyone knows that everything on SV is not-so-secretly a worm crossover!
No way could Cai have agency and the ability to make decisions of her own.
That's just crazy talk
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
There's influence from elders, and there's 'molded at six-years-old to fit an artificial spirit'. That's all I'm saying.
Don't hurt yourself with all that shouting.
Edit:
She mentions how she thinks that her opinions, even the ones that disagree with her Mother, are intentional.
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There's some irony that this is the safe conversation.
I do appreciate GG's ability to put a human face on the Cai faction. I was pleasantly surprised by that minor, and will be more likely to support going to GG to talk in the future. I'd even suggest we should do that over going to Cai. Cai very evidently has no personal stuff to talk about. GG on the other hand can put a personal face on himself and on Cai, since he knows her better than anyone. In fact, I would not be opposed to talking to him about what Renxiang is like personally, or even admitting that we aren't going to give our loyalty to someone we can't do so to in a personal sense. GG would understand that, and he might be able to help.
Can we talk about this?
@Katreus either pushed someone to vote here, on this very contested vote to drive by vote or made a sockpuppet.
I am talking about it to inform that I will not vote for your plan anymore on the account of that breach of trust.
let's assume you're right
So what?
Speaking purely pragmatically of course.
"Filling her role perfectly as desigmed" is pretty far and away the opposite of this "totally bonkers nutso" you seem to be claiming Cai is.
Let's leave the friendship argument alone, no need to muddle the topic.
What evidence do you have that Shenhuas purpose for CRX is an unstable berserker that'll try to go full ham on Ling Qi or other potential dissenters at the first opportunity? This is the claim I'm taking issue with, that "CRX is unstable" and you point out manipulations and other things and sure, granted, whatever
But considering the nigh-omnipotence you seem to be assigning to Shenhua, what purpose does CRX serve as a mentally defective product?
We already have no evidence of actual mental instability, which you are welcome to provide evidence to the contrary
Now that youve made the claim that Cai is a lit fuse away from going nuts, and if Cai won't do it's clearly gonna be Shenhuas fault, then...Assuming she's as omnicompetent as you're claiming why would she set up CRX that way?
If Shenhuas influence over CRX is so absolute then the only way CRX would be allowed to walk free while two cents short of a dollar is if it served Shenhuas purpose.
So.
What possible purpose could that serve? Please, cite the evidence to support this extraordinary claim.
Wiggin42
Wage Slave
My two cents in; I love protagonist centered morality. The idea that you and your kin comes first and foremost is a highly admirable trait to me. It's what made characters such as early Walter White, Buffy's Spike, and Harry Dresden such fun and interesting characters. Hell, it's what franchises like Fast and the Furious and GTA survive on.
Let's not go overboard.
It's possible he has a friend who's just reading the story (possibly at his behest) and never felt the need to comment or vote until now.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Xuan Shi.
- Location
- United States of America
BONUS OPPONENT UNLOCKED
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Cai states that her mother has her like a puppet on strings. Cai also states that her mother has a completely inhuman view of the world.
Cai is about as artificial as the dress we wear. She believes that she is a doll and fully expects to be cast aside. These are not normal thoughts. When the ruin Cai fully expects comes I don't want to be near her.
She is hypocritical because she espouses the complete destruction of corruption yet she uses her family connections to get clothes for her followers. This is basic corruption where one uses family members to get benefits that she normally wouldn't get. Other people may not see that as corruption but I do. It is natural but that doesn't make the corruption any less.
Cai is about as artificial as the dress we wear. She believes that she is a doll and fully expects to be cast aside. These are not normal thoughts. When the ruin Cai fully expects comes I don't want to be near her.
She is hypocritical because she espouses the complete destruction of corruption yet she uses her family connections to get clothes for her followers. This is basic corruption where one uses family members to get benefits that she normally wouldn't get. Other people may not see that as corruption but I do. It is natural but that doesn't make the corruption any less.
The teenage dragon
Ling Qi's flute
Ling Qi's bow
This is Xianxia. Let's get creative
Then you may as well go after self avowed communists that go to work and spend money on themselves and their loved ones rather than leech off of government welfare before donating whatever's left after cost of living to local homeless shelters
Like
You need to give people room to be human and thus fallible or else no one's ever going to meet your standards
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
And that is a problem with Cai right now. I don't see her as human anymore. Just a dancing doll.
And let's be fair. The argument isn't about her artificiality
The argument you presented is her being insane. Yes, Cai isn't normal. But this was self evident from the start. Bai isn't normal. Ling Qi isn't normal. Gan Guangli isn't normal
They're all some level of extraordinary but I certainly don't see you disavowing Bai Meizhen at every possible opportunity
Hell, if mental stability is such a big problem, literally Zeqing and Elder Zhou man.
Dolls lack the agency to go mad. They simply are unable to cut the strings.
If puppets moved under their power more often, Pinnochio wouldn't be as magical a story. Itd just be a cautionary tale.
- Location
- Canada
I feel like I'm butting into someone else's conversation here, but... Noooot really what I'm getting as an impression of her, here or in any other interactions.
On an entirely separate note:
I agree with this principle overall, especially how it relates to our current situation, but I'm... Not quite certain you read what examples you were typing here, exactly. His family, maybe, but that's one character many have read as self sacrificing to an absurd degree. At many points in his series, at least-not that I'm going to be speaking anything more on this topic.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
What friendship argument?
I don't think I've ever said that she was any of those things. You seem to be attributing a lot of shit to me, when I haven't said anything about this before. My opinion is that she's a broken-as-shit kid, and probably isn't all there mentally because of her Mother's "ministrations".
To be honest, you're acting like an ass and jumping down my throat over some shit that's apparently got you all worked up. If you're gonna keep going with this fucking... fit, maybe you should actually argue with the people who have brought these points up instead?