Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

These aren't too complicated. They're free cultivation actions pre-invested. All handy. Especially the bonus meridians, since we'd be having lots of arts open up to use them with, even if Leg would be more convenient.
You are missing the main benefit of the Qi and Meridian bonuses: that don't increase check difficultly.
Our current difficulty for getting a new point of Qi is about 60. But if we dump 600 successes into Qi, we are going to forevermore increase the difficulty of further increases. On the other hand, a bonus like this one? It is a pure, permanent advantage - not merely progress among the route of increasingly diminishing returns.

Same thing with the Meridians. Remember how there is a cap to how many meridians a cultivator at a given level can reasonably open? Well, our personal cap just increased by 3.
 
So, some thoughts: @Arkeus discussed the idea of the "tyranny of the high initiative support". As he rightly noted, high initiative is hugely valuable on supports. This is because it allows us to ensure that our team starts the round fully buffed. It's also really valuable on stealth characters, since it allows you to decide to stealth at the start of a turn before you get attacked, and use things like First Strike bonuses.

That being said, one thing I've been thinking about is that initiative is not an unalloyed good. Yes, being first allows you to establish a +1 offensive buff advantage on your attack, or to not have such a disadvantage if you use a defensive instant. To make sure you have the most initiative though requires you to invest passives in initiative. This means you aren't investing them in other stats, like offense and defense. In other words, someone can choose to be slower in return for higher base stats, which counteracts possible the possible buff disadvantage for them.

Meizhen seems to be quite slow, and runs a counterattack build. I wouldn't be surprised if she has things like "last strike" bonuses, or maybe something that gives her higher defense before she's used her main action in a round.

Initiative can be hugely valuable to certain builds like ours, but for others it is not necessarily the best, and it can be counteracted by investing in other areas. Overall, my feeling is that the system is probably working about right (though every support wants to be fast).
 
We don't have enough time to reach a plateau.
i'm not sure I agree on this.
iirc tournament is on week 54 so we should have 16 weeks left.
We do need new pills, gss and white room exact values to make a precise estimation, but even guesstimating (the last time we leveled FVM, SCS, TRF we gained ~60 suxx per action, TRF need 300 for green 1 and 600 seems likely for green 2) 16 Major cultivation actions should be enough to cap out any Art at Green 2.
On the other hand it close enough that forsaking even just a few weeks will make Ling Qi fall short of that second level up on one or more core Arts.
That for me qualifies as an issue: whether or not we reach the green 2 soft-capped plateau on our main skills.

Imo it's better to work on spiritual and Arts right now, and go easy on physical breakthrough than the other way around:
Whether we reach bronze in week 39 or 41 makes little difference in Ling Qi's combat effectiveness for the end of the year tournament.
On the other hand, sacrifing actions to physical put reaching soft-capped Green 2 arts at risk, and that would be a significant dent to Ling Qi's combat effectiveness for the tournament.
 
i'm not sure I agree on this.
iirc tournament is on week 54 so we should have 16 weeks left.
We do need new pills, gss and white room exact values to make a precise estimation, but even guesstimating (the last time we leveled FVM, SCS, TRF we gained ~60 suxx per action, TRF need 300 for green 1 and 600 seems likely for green 2) 16 Major cultivation actions should be enough to cap out any Art at Green 2.
On the other hand it close enough that forsaking even just a few weeks will make Ling Qi fall short of that second level up on one or more core Arts.
That for me qualifies as an issue: whether or not we reach the green 2 soft-capped plateau on our main skills.

Imo it's better to work on spiritual and Arts right now, and go easy on physical breakthrough than the other way around:
Whether we reach bronze in week 39 or 41 makes little difference in Ling Qi's combat effectiveness for the end of the year tournament.
On the other hand, sacrifing actions to physical put reaching soft-capped Green 2 arts at risk, and that would be a significant dent to Ling Qi's combat effectiveness for the tournament.

Reaching Bronze allows us to use more/better stones though and that's a huge part of our dice pool.
 
Why in the world would we prioritize the Favor over EPC cultivation? We have to do the favor once, and can fit it in any week when we have a free action. In contrast, EPC needs to be worked on each week for a while. I.e. if we drop EPC this week, we can only "make that up" a month plus.

Favor really doesn't have the urgency to warrant that.


As an aside, even if we can attack the pill-search to Favor (which is a big if), that still leaves you with one minor that you haven't attached anywhere. Ew.
We prioritise the favour because this isn't skyrim and quest npcs aren't happy to hang around at midnight behind the inn every night for 6 months until you get around to doing their quest.

Fu Xiang spent at least 300 red stones worth of material goods helping us out. He also saved us god knows how much in medical bills and letting us get away without all our talismans being looted or destroyed. In return he asked us a favour.

In real life if you ask someone who owes you for a favour and they don't do anything or even talk to you for a month you tend to get kind of pissed. If we do it now we have an excuse, even if it's not one he's happy with. If we wait another 2 weeks to bronze, which is where I understand your plan is likely to be at best then that's over a month and a half without so much as a word.

Pissing off the intrigue master is not a good idea, especially since we already have Yan Renshu gunning for us.

Which leaves aside the other point that this isn't exactly a favour Ling Qi is happy to be doing. Both due to the risk and because she's ruining the hard work of other people who have never done anything to her. She'll do it because she owes Fu Xiang, but the sooner she does it the more she can assuage her conscience with the idea that they at least have some chance to build themselves back up and have a chance in the tournament.

And the other attached minor would probably be on the puzzle box or one of Meizhen, Suyin, Su Ling to a retraining/EPC action. I didn't put it anywhere because I haven't seen the options yet.

Plus EPC would get successes from the favours and I do put EPC on the docket if we've done really poorly or really well at getting Bronze. I just put it behind breaking through.

EDIT: Corrected a spelling error and added in a missing word.
 
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That being said, one thing I've been thinking about is that initiative is not an unalloyed good. Yes, being first allows you to establish a +1 offensive buff advantage on your attack, or to not have such a disadvantage if you use a defensive instant. To make sure you have the most initiative though requires you to invest passives in initiative. This means you aren't investing them in other stats, like offense and defense. In other words, someone can choose to be slower in return for higher base stats, which counteracts possible the possible buff disadvantage for them.
Or you could be like Ling Qi, and both have your cake and eat it. :V

W.r.t. our ideal build by tournament time, I think we might be ok even if we're only Green Appraisal/Early Bronze.
That still allows us to get at least FVM 6/ SCS 6/ AM 5/ AE 4/ AS 3, maybe TRF 5 if we can stack enough extra bonii (White Room?). Add on formations like trick arrows or Mobile Oppresion Fortress Zhengui, as well as potential other arts i.e. Spiritual Buff, music or stealth, then we should be pretty well set.

I highly doubt any of our opponents are going to be Foundation in either Green or Bronze, so at most they'll have one auto on us for Physical. Sun might make it to Bronze 3, but then she'd have to sacrifice her cultivation of spiritual and/or arts, so that would almost be a boon for us.
 
(Why is everyone writing bonii and not bonuses? I want to make sure I'm not missing some special meaning here.)

I think our long-term cultivation plans up to the tourney should wait until we know what the White Room specifically provides. Our time is best spent debating how to cultivate in the next week or two, as then is probably when we will learn the details of the White Room.
 
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Reaching Bronze allows us to use more/better stones though and that's a huge part of our dice pool.

Until we reach Green 2 we wont be able to use two GSS so assuming the trend continues and GSS = x5YSS, the gain is a mere 20 dice at best. More probably only 15 due to RSS being no longer in use.


I highly doubt any of our opponents are going to be Foundation in either Green or Bronze, so at most they'll have one auto on us for Physical. Sun might make it to Bronze 3, but then she'd have to sacrifice her cultivation of spiritual and/or arts, so that would almost be a boon for us.
Well, we know for a fact that Meizhen and Liling are guaranteed to be. Maybe even green and/or bronze 3.
Ji Rong now that he isn't going to be suffering from constant set-backs also almost guarenteed for it.
CRX is obviously going to benefit the most from the White room and is also quite likely to reach it.
That makes the only two peers that might not make it to green 2/bronze 2 are Kang Zihao and Gan Guangli as far as i can see it. Maybe Xuan Shi too ?
Han Jian, Fan Yu, Gu Xiulan and Huang Da will be likely (or lucky) to reach Green 1/Bronze 1.

We prioritise the favour because this isn't skyrim and quest npcs aren't happy to hang around at midnight behind the inn every night for 6 months until you get around to doing their quest.
Quest seem to way otherwise:
Fu Xiang on the other hand had the same blandly pleasant expression that he always did, though he seemed to have gotten new robes, deep emerald green ones with embroidered scrollwork resembling eyes on the hems.

He met her eyes for a moment, and she became uncomfortably aware that she had made no effort to repay his favor yet. He didn't seem bothered by it
 
The other thing to note about the favors is that Cai probably won't be wildly happy about us pissing over her public order like this. Probably better for everyone if we get it done before we're actually serving her.
 
(Why is everyone writing bonii and not bonuses? I want to make sure I'm not missing some special meaning here.)

I think our long-term cultivation plans up to the tourney should wait until we know what the White Room specifically provides. Our time is best spent debating how to cultivate in the next week or two, as then is probably when we will learn the details of the White Room.
People think English should be more like Latin sometimes. Go figure.

I think we know enough that a short term plan of EPC/Sneak Mission/Spiritual should be a lock for the next few weeks. The more free green stones the better and the more chances we get to double green stone cultivate the better. Trying to figure out what to do once we're at Green II and EPC5 should wait until we have a better sense of the numbers, yes.
 
Quest seem to way otherwise:

Are you really going to leave out the rest of the sentence? Ling Qi admits to herself (supported in previous interactions) that the guy doesn't exactly emote what he's really thinking. There's also the compounding factors that Ling Qi doesn't know the guy well enough to properly read him like she does her close friends, and how even if he was feeling irritated with Ling Qi, this would definitely not be the time to communicate those thoughts.

Full sentence for clarity:
He met her eyes for a moment, and she became uncomfortably aware that she had made no effort to repay his favor yet. He didn't seem bothered by it, but when did he ever?

At best, you can argue that Ling Qi is unsure of how he feels currently, but clearly feels uncomfortable leaving the favors undone for this long.
 
I'm also a little worried at how people seem to be completely ignoring Renshu.

Like, in update we've been warned about what he could, and has tried, to do. Yrsillar has said that now Ling Qi will be taking this as a wake-up call to not mono-focus on cultivation so much. And we've actually been given a specific option to look in on him.

We have been warned here. Ignoring him to mono-focus on cultivation is, I suspect, something that could bite us.
 
Well, we know for a fact that Meizhen and Liling are guaranteed to be. Maybe even green and/or bronze 3.
Foundation is Third Realm level 3. That's my point.
Whilst we can expect them to be Green/Bronze 2 (Appraisal), I don't think either of them can reach Foundation, not without sacrificing gains in their arts or in a specific area of cultivation (i.e. if Liling stays at Early Green and monofocuses towards Bronze Foundation).
 
We do need new pills, gss and white room exact values to make a precise estimation, but even guesstimating (the last time we leveled FVM, SCS, TRF we gained ~60 suxx per action, TRF need 300 for green 1 and 600 seems likely for green 2) 16 Major cultivation actions should be enough to cap out any Art at Green 2.
Sure, but we've got NINE arts. Sure, FSA and FZ are capped, but that still leaves seven arts that require additional work. On top of that, we still need to break through to Bronze, and still need to train up EPC and Spiritual, and probably need to learn one or two new arts as well.

Lets sit down and actually do the math.

We are finishing up week 37 soon, which means we will have weeks 38 through 52 to prepare, or 15 weeks. In each week, we have 5 actions, which means we have a total of 75 actions available.

Each breakthrough costs us on average 1 + 2 * .45 / .55 = 2.6. We need three breakthrough actions, for roughly 8 actions total.

Cultivating to Green Appraisal currently requires 500 successes. We are going to get a bunch of those from other sources, but that still leaves 300 successes for us to strive for - and at 60 successes an action, this comes out to 5 actions.

EPC requires 200 successes. As of last time we trained it, we got about 30 successes with a good roll, and incidentally that is about how fast we can cultivate it via our Grinning Moon bonus. Either way, this should take a little over 6 actions, but we will be done one this weeks so that leaves 5 actions.

If our arts average 60 successes per action, then 4 actions gets us 240 successes. Looking over green arts we've seen (FVM, AM, TRF) that is roughly the order of magnitude we need to deal with. Thus, just the early 3rd-realm version of AC, AM, FVM, TRF, SCS, and AE would require 4*6 = 24 actions.

Of course, before cultivating AE and AC to Green, we would need to actually finish up what they are doing in Yellow. That should take about 3 actions between them.

To cultivate FVM, TRF, and AE to Green Foundation, I expect we would need on the order of ~420 successes on average, or 7 actions. If we do this for each of these arts, that is 21 actions total.

SCS6, FVM7, AM5, TRF6, AE3, AE5, AC3, and AC5 will all require meridians. We currently have 3 meridians open - that leaves 5 more actions to take care of the other meridians.

In addition to our current arts, I expect us to get some sort of buff art to help us stick our FVM dice. If we assume it takes 120 successes to hit the yellow cap and 240 successes to train to Green Appraisal, that is another 6 actions. Plus it probably requires at least three meridians, so that totals up at 9 actions overall.

So far, I've described a total of 80 actions worth of stuff that we are going to want to do before hitting Green Foundation, and we have 75 actions available. It is true that this is based on our current cultivation speed, which can be sped up in any number of ways. However, it is also the case that I didn't cover a number of other things that I expect we will be doing with our time. For instance, I haven't accounted for learning Flying Swords, which is liable to be a major undertaking. Overall, I'd say that our time before the tournoument is roughly the time we need to upgrade our art suite properly to Green Appraisal + Early Bronze, though that does mean that worries of stalling out just before we finish are also reasonable.
 
Until we reach Green 2 we wont be able to use two GSS so assuming the trend continues and GSS = x5YSS, the gain is a mere 20 dice at best. More probably only 15 due to RSS being no longer in use.
To be fair, we simply don't have enough wealth to use green stones with any degree or regularity, so since we are going to reach Green Appraisal well before the end of the year in any case, this shouldn't be a concern.

The more free green stones the better and the more chances we get to double green stone cultivate the better.
Why does it matter how many chances to double Green-stone cultivate we get, as long as there are more chances than we can afford to buy green stones for?
 
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To be fair, we simply don't have enough wealth to use green stones with any degree or regularity, so since we are going to reach Green Appraisal well before the end of the year in any case, this shouldn't be a concern.

Why does it matter how many chances to double Green-stone cultivate we get, as long as there are more chances than we can afford to buy green stones for?
Right now we have 3 green spirit stones. If we do a sect mission every week then in eight weeks we should have about 200 sect points, or another 2 green spirit stones. We would also have miscellaneous beast cores to cash in, pill furnace fees, and the take from the FX favor robbery.

We will want to spend some of our cash on other things like pills and equipment, but we will have the option to use quite a few green spirit stones if we want to.
 
Right now we have 3 green spirit stones. If we do a sect mission every week then in eight weeks we should have about 200 sect points, or another 2 green spirit stones. We would also have miscellaneous beast cores to cash in, pill furnace fees, and the take from the FX favor robbery.

We will want to spend some of our cash on other things like pills and equipment, but we will have the option to use quite a few green spirit stones if we want to.
Honestly I'd rather spend Sect Points on Tutoring or Archive access. We already get a fair amount of stones every week, and if EPC5 gives us a virtual Green stone then we can just build up a supply of cash to swap out for GSS when we get to appraisal.
 
There has been much discussion about picking up an art that boosts our spiritual attack, but not much discussion on what kind of art it will be. If the only thing it does is make FVM viable then we've effectively doubled the training costs of FVM. The art needs to be valuable in its own right.

So, what do we want the art to do? Or, to turn it around, what holes do we have in our build or what new capabilities do we want that we can fulfill with an art that boost spiritual attack?
 
There has been much discussion about picking up an art that boosts our spiritual attack, but not much discussion on what kind of art it will be. If the only thing it does is make FVM viable then we've effectively doubled the training costs of FVM. The art needs to be valuable in its own right.

So, what do we want the art to do? Or, to turn it around, what holes do we have in our build or what new capabilities do we want that we can fulfill with an art that boost spiritual attack?

I remember there being a bunch art ideas proposed for a spiritual buff art, two of which were wind/water, and one of which was wood/wind. But I don't know how to find them. I'll try to see if I can dig them up.

EDIT:

Here we go, found them:

Hidden Glacier Art
Attributes: Wind, Water, Yin
Meridians: Spine, Spine
By channeling both the sheer power of the mighty glaciers which exist to the north of Savage Seas, and the depths that those same glaciers conceal, the user concentrates and enhances their spiritual attacks, whilst concealing their true power.
Ubiquitous Vapours Art
Attributes: Wind, Water, Yin
Meridians: Head, Spine
Through the pervasive persistance of wind and water the user's qi senses and penetrates the defences of all in their presence. Bolsters spiritual attacks in empowering ability for qi to latch onto targets as well increasing the user's perceptive range.

Propsperous Spores Art
Attributes: Wood, Wind, Yin
Meridians: Heart, Lung, Head
Through the medium of spores the user seeds their surroundings with qi and marking recipients for tracking and enhancing the efficacy of sequential spiritual attacks.
 
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Hmph! Obsessed with raw cultivation so many are. Hmph, hmph!

Ling Qi trying to race to G3 would be a mistake, in my mind. Mind you, there are advantages inherent to a higher cultivation level:
1. An additional auto-success for applicable actions and in clashes against opponents.
2. Unlocks an additional stone slot of the highest type available.
3. Unlocks arts capped by that cultivation type.
4. Greater social stature.

But this is a game about opportunity costs. Green Appraisal will take 500 successes, and advancing from there (probably) 1200. The first is imminently doable within 15 weeks; the second... would require giving up probably at least 900 successes elsewhere*. Existing art costs suggests that's enough to promote 2-3 additional arts to a Green level, more than enough to advance Bronze to appraisal,gain approaching a dozen and a half points of qi... and for what?

1. An additional auto-success is minimal advantage. Sure, it's doubled against Yellow cultivators, but I suspect by now, let alone the tournament, no Yellow cultivators would be a threat to Ling Qi (and thus no change in outcome of a match). It also ignores Physique - where, again, auto-successes would be swinging the other way.

2. Affording a green stone a week is costly enough - affording two a week? Not a chance. And three is out of the question. Now, it would allow 6 yellow stones or 5 yellow/1 green stones as well... of course, even trying really hard, Ling Qi is only going to enjoy this particular fruit for a week or two before the tournament anyway.

3. How many arts are going to have levels that require that high in Green? Forgotten Vale Melody's last level (what, ~1000 successes to get there from here?), Eight Phase Ceremony's seventh level (same magnitude of successes needed, likely), Abyssal Exhalation (even more successes), possibly a level of a new art (ditto). Considering how many successes they'd need to get to that point as well, that's even more of an opportunity cost.

4. With social stature comes priority as a target. I'd expect that Ling Qi would be happier if Sun Liling was geared up to counter Cai Renxiang or Bai Meizhen rather than Ling Qi. Now, it would make the dynamic between Renxiang and Qi more interesting if the latter surpassed the former's cultivation in an area... but, on the flip side, I get the impression that an unbalanced cultivation is a mild social embarrassment.

No, I think those successes are better spent elsewhere. Another level of an art (let alone two or three) is liable to provide more benefit than a flat +1 auto-success to Spirit-related contests, and Bronze Appraisal would also swing physical contests (like those that Ling Qi are liable to be engaging in with facepunchers like Sun Liling and Ji Rong) by an auto-success anyway.

Plus, I get the feeling that Green stages aren't supposed to be rushed through. Look at the names of the stages - there's pretty clearly certain things that need to be accomplished along the way towards Cyan, and skimping on those is something that would lead to regrets.


* Spirit has some additional sources of growth and more applicable bonuses than most arts, so I took a quarter off the full 1200 successes needed.
 
There has been much discussion about picking up an art that boosts our spiritual attack, but not much discussion on what kind of art it will be. If the only thing it does is make FVM viable then we've effectively doubled the training costs of FVM. The art needs to be valuable in its own right.

So, what do we want the art to do? Or, to turn it around, what holes do we have in our build or what new capabilities do we want that we can fulfill with an art that boost spiritual attack?
I've suggested a longranged perception/spirit buff, before, and a group buff's been suggested too. Suppose a more direct, probably single target, spiritual attack's also an idea. Could be interesting. Maybe have it be a music art.

Water/wind we know we could get from 3rd floor with no penalties. But Wood/Wind's another idea if we'd prefer Darkness/Wind/Wood over Darkness/Wind/Water.
 
There has been much discussion about picking up an art that boosts our spiritual attack, but not much discussion on what kind of art it will be. If the only thing it does is make FVM viable then we've effectively doubled the training costs of FVM. The art needs to be valuable in its own right.

So, what do we want the art to do? Or, to turn it around, what holes do we have in our build or what new capabilities do we want that we can fulfill with an art that boost spiritual attack?
Well, one of the choices for going spiritual buff art to increase the dice of FVM and AE was to also make it an anti dispel art. Something to make it much more difficult for people to dispell our arts.

While that would still be valuable, the majestic rework has made such a thing of lesser value. FVM now provides that role amazingly well, and our breakthrough bonus makes it even harder to dispell our main effects.

So, I have a couple veins of thought that could be pursued. A) We could get a spiritual buff that also allows for us to do an attack of some kind; B) We could get a spiritual buff that also allows us to do a defensive action of some kind; C) We could get a spiritual buff that does something utility focused; D) We could get a spiritual buff that is focused on resisting dispells; E) We could get a spiritual buff that is focused on dispelling our opponent's buffs.

I'm personally partial at the moment to option C, as we don't really have anything that we use outside of combat outside of AM. Getting another perception art that is focused on buffing our spiritual passively could be nice.
 
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