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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Arkeus said:
Depending on the stone uses and other things, EPC cultivation gives around 30-40 successes. Favor gives 30. Clearly the optimal choice is to do both Favor and EPC cultivation for 70~ successes, but if we can't do that there is a argument for Favors over EPC cultivation.
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I'd prefer Favor, FVM, and EPC, dropping phys cultivation to 3 or 2.

That lowers our chances of getting next level SCS by tournament, but I think that'll be a worthwhile tradeoff.

And of course all this changes once we see the unexpected new actions yrs throws in and get the stats for the white room.
 
Alright. Locking up, can I get the tally.

I love the discussion going on by the way, but to measure in on the mortal governor thing... mortals generally govern mortal matters, and answer to a higher ranked cultivator. In the case of the Sect village, that's the elders and whatnot. In a normal city it would be whatever cultivator family runs things.

Also keep in mind that the main duty of city guards isn't being policemen, it's facepunching deathworld horrors to keep them out of the cities and farms, the ones patrolling the streets are the guys on light duty for whatever reason.
 
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yrsillar said:
Alright. Locking up, can I get the tally.

I love the discussion going on by the way, but to measure in on the mortal governor thing... mortals generally govern mortal matters, and answer to a higher ranked cultivator. In the case of the Sect village, that's the elders and whatnot. In a normal city it would be whatever cultivator family runs things.

Also keep in mind that the main duty of city guards isn't being policemen, it's facepunching deathworld horrors to keep them out of the cities and farms, the ones patrolling the streets are the guys on light duty for whatever reason.
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Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Karnax626 on Jan 19, 2018 at 9:29 AM, finished with 413 posts and 180 votes.
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PrimalShadow said:
Why in the world would we prioritize the Favor over EPC cultivation? We have to do the favor once, and can fit it in any week when we have a free action. In contrast, EPC needs to be worked on each week for a while. I.e. if we drop EPC this week, we can only "make that up" a month plus.
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Same thing, if not more, with spiritual cultivation.
Green 2 is going to limit FVM, TRF and AE. Most probably the spiritual dice bonus Art we're planing to get too. (And perhaps any Argent Art successor we find and want to train.)

Imo it's preferable to end up as Green 2/Bronze 1 with EPC6 FVM7 SCS6 TRF6 (+whatever), than Green 2/Bronze 2 with an extra level of SCS7 but "only" EPC5 FVM6 & TRF5.

Realistically in the forseeable future we want to spend a Major every week on, at least, EPC, spiritual cultivation and Sect Mission/Favor.
With the last one freed up if we get a lucky stealth based Minor action.
 
Ayashi said:
Same thing, if not more, with spiritual cultivation.
Green 2 is going to limit FVM, TRF and AE. Most probably the spiritual dice bonus Art we're planing to get too. (And perhaps any Argent Art successor we find and want to train.)

Imo it's preferable to end up as Green 2/Bronze 1 with EPC6 FVM7 SCS6 TRF6 (+whatever), than Green 2/Bronze 2 with an extra level of SCS7 but "only" EPC5 FVM6 & TRF5.

Realistically in the forseeable future we want to spend a Major every week on, at least, EPC, spiritual cultivation and Sect Mission/Favor.
With the last one freed up if we get a lucky stealth based Minor action.
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there is a good argument for switching spiritual culttivation with dragon (makes us catch up the lost action fast), and that EPC takes precedence (more successes, maybe free GSS).
 
Arkeus said:
Depending on the stone uses and other things, EPC cultivation gives around 30-40 successes. Favor gives 30. Clearly the optimal choice is to do both Favor and EPC cultivation for 70~ successes, but if we can't do that there is a argument for Favors over EPC cultivation.
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We don't have an unlimited supply of stealth actions - in point of fact, Favors are our only true stealth option right now, while others merely have the chance of involving stealth. The choice is not between doing Favors now and not doing it at all, forgoing those 30 stealth successes; it is between doing Favors now and doing it later, getting the 30 successes either way.

Scotchtape27 said:
I think the big reason is the fact that we've been putting it off for a long time. Close to about a month in game since we told Fu Xiang we'd do it if I remember correctly.

People were holding off until we hit green so that we could have less of a chance of being caught when we did the heist. Now that we've hit green a lot of people will probably be pushing to get it done ASAP because we told Fu Xiang we'd do it, but haven't actually done anything to repay him for saving our ass yet.
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We were holding it off until we broke through, which we've only half-done. Dropping everything to finish it for no apparent reason (given that there has been no established urgency for this) is a bad idea.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind doing the favor action instead of one of our breakthrough rolls - but putting off an EPC roll to do this is utterly unacceptable.
 
Arkeus said:
there is a good argument for switching spiritual culttivation with dragon (makes us catch up the lost action fast), and that EPC takes precedence (more successes, maybe free GSS).
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My pipe dream is that the EPC bonus is what gives us a free GSS. So rather than higher levels of EPC giving higher spirit stones, you need to breakthrough with the cultivation art to get the next level of spirit stones. That way we can start off right away with a GSS!

Probably not going to happen though.
 
PrimalShadow said:
We don't have an unlimited supply of stealth actions - in point of fact, Favors are our only true stealth option right now, while others merely have the chance of involving stealth. The choice is not between doing Favors now and not doing it at all, forgoing those 30 stealth successes; it is between doing Favors now and doing it later, getting the 30 successes either way.
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The argument is that, if doing favor now means getting EPC5 week 39 instead of 40, doing favor is good. Yrsillar also confirmed some of the sect missions do give stealth.
 
PrimalShadow said:
We don't have an unlimited supply of stealth actions - in point of fact, Favors are our only true stealth option right now, while others merely have the chance of involving stealth. The choice is not between doing Favors now and not doing it at all, forgoing those 30 stealth successes; it is between doing Favors now and doing it later, getting the 30 successes either way.


We were holding it off until we broke through, which we've only half-done. Dropping everything to finish it for no apparent reason (given that there has been no established urgency for this) is a bad idea.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind doing the favor action instead of one of our breakthrough rolls - but putting off an EPC roll to do this is utterly unacceptable.
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I literally called out that people were going to move the goalposts again.

We have our tools, we've broken through. We actually have a fucking alibi. There will never be an opportunity this good again, and it even furthers EPC progression.
 
Arkeus said:
there is a good argument for switching spiritual culttivation with dragon (makes us catch up the lost action fast), and that EPC takes precedence (more successes, maybe free GSS).
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I think we need to be realistic on The dragon thing.
Even in the best of cases (aka the shortest) it would need two actions to finish this quest-line: -- One to talk with the dragon and ask what it wants/needs,
the second to actually do it (and give the thread the chance to actually vote for or against the trade).
Now, even if the site is near miraculous and somehow gives something ridiculous like 15 dice to something relevant (note: that's twice what any other site we found gives), it'll take something like over 3 months to balance out the two actions investisment.
There just isn't enough time before the tournament for the site to pay its actions investisment.

And yes, EPC is great and needed, but it'll soon stall at EPC6 if we don't increase spiritual.
VERY soon in fact: EPC6 needs 200suxx, while we need 500suxx to get to Green 2 and continue towards EPC7.
As it stands we will already have a period of probably multiple weeks of being soft-capped at EPC6 waiting for our spiritual cultivation to reach Green 2. Each week we don't spiritually cultivate is a week we pushback EPC7...

Comparatively, losing a handful of skill exp due to not being Bronze yet is insignificant.
 
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Alectai said:
We have our tools, we've broken through. We actually have a fucking alibi. There will never be an opportunity this good again, and it even furthers EPC progression.
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1) Do larceny and stealth proc off of physical, or spiritual? In the former case, we haven't broken through in the way that matters for a heist.

2) You realize that breaking through isn't an alibi, right? Because, uh, being in the process of breaking through in no way keeps you from doing other stuff. If it did, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

3) It is exceptionally, super-duper-not-an-alibi if we've been seen around the market, which has to happen if we are attaching minors to that action. So if you want to pretend that we were never near the market, you sure-as-hell can't stand behind a plan that doesn't leave any other action for minors to be attached to.
 
Ayashi said:
Now even if the site is near miraculous and somehow gives something ridiculous like 15 dice to something relevant (note: that's twice what any other site we found gives), it'll take something like over 3 months to balance out the two actions investistment.
There just isn't enough time until the tournament for the site to pay it actions investisment.
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Ummm... I'm not sure if you saw, but we know exactly what the site does.
yrsillar said:
Mystic Vale: Grants bonus successes equal to talent multiplied by cultivation realm to physical, spiritual and qi cultivation, Grants nine bonus dice to Wood, Earth, and Water Art cultivation.
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So in terms of miraculous sites, this one is definitely in that category. It will give us 18 auto-success to Physical, spiritual, and qi which for us is roughly 36 dice. On top of that, it gives a very nice bonus in dice to wood, Earth, and water arts.
 
Ayashi said:
I think we need to be realistic on The dragon thing.
Even in the best of cases (aka the shortest) it would need two actions to finish this quest-line: One to talk with the dragon and ask what it wants/needs, the second to actually do it (and give the thread the chance to actually vote for or against the trade).
Now even if the site is near miraculous and somehow gives something ridiculous like 15 dice to something relevant (note: that's twice what any other site we found gives), it'll take something like over 3 months to balance out the two actions investistment.
There just isn't enough time until the tournament for the site to pay it actions investisment.

And yes, EPC is great and needed, but it'll soon stall at EPC6 if we don't increase spiritual.
VERY soon in fact: EPC6 needs 200suxx, while we need 500suxx to get to Green 2 and continue towards EPC7.
As it stands we will already have a period of probably multiple weeks of being soft-capped at EPC6 waiting for our spiritual cultivation to reach Green 2...

Comparatively, losing a handful of skill exp due to not being Bronze yet is insignificant.
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We know what Dragon site gives: It gives 18 successes to Spiritual, Physical and Qi cultivation. We do around 50 fir spiritual/Physical, so it gives 35% of an action. So 3 spiritual actions with Dragon site = 4 without.

EPC will most likely stall at EPC5, but the reason to get EPC5 quicker is to increase spiritual quicker, get a GSS less expensively, and assorted bonus: maybe a moon quest.
 
PrimalShadow said:
1) Do larceny and stealth proc off of physical, or spiritual? In the former case, we haven't broken through in the way that matters for a heist.

2) You realize that breaking through isn't an alibi, right? Because, uh, being in the process of breaking through in no way keeps you from doing other stuff. If it did, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

3) It is exceptionally, super-duper-not-an-alibi if we've been seen around the market, which has to happen if we are attaching minors to that action. So if you want to pretend that we were never near the market, you sure-as-hell can't stand behind a plan that doesn't leave any other action for minors to be attached to.
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It's one success, we're no longer wasting the bonus we'd get to EPC on it either.

Seriously, we were told it shouldn't be as bad as Yan Renshu's lab was, and we're vastly better than we ever were before. There is no reason to put it off anymore.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Ummm... I'm not sure if you saw, but we know exactly what the site does.


So in terms of miraculous sites, this one is definitely in that category. It will give us 18 auto-success to Physical, spiritual, and qi which for us is roughly 36 dice. On top of that, it gives a very nice bonus in dice to wood, Earth, and water arts.
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No, i hadn't seen that. Or more probably forgotten it XD
So, it'll take between three weeks of cultivation (with yellow level dice) to four or more (with unknown green level dice) to pay-back an action...
Okay, objection retracted.
Assuming the Dragon quest-line is tiny, with no further surprises, it can be worthwhile.

I still say we should lock in a spiritual cultivation in every week for the foreseeable future though.
 
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One thing I would like to add to the favors vote is that we may want to look for paper work that details out of sect production groups. We will have to approach them to start getting the pills we need we might as well learn about them while we are stealing.
 
Neshuakadal said:
One thing I would like to add to the favors vote is that we may want to look for paper work that details out of sect production groups. We will have to approach them to start getting the pills we need we might as well learn about them while we are stealing.
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Oh yes, crash/steal/burn their project(s), ruin their chance of getting to Inner and ... buy their merchandise?
The only thing more evil would be to sell Productor A project to Productor B and vice versa. Preferably planting evidence towards eachother at the same time :ninja:
 
Neshuakadal said:
We wouldn't be buying from them but from the people they buy from.
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It might also be a good idea to see if we work out a deal with Suyin and Su Ling, as they both seem to be pretty good pill-makers, considering the fact that they came up with the Silverblood Pills.

Might be able to commission pills from them directly, especially since we have some Grade 3 cores lying around.
 
Ayashi said:
Same thing, if not more, with spiritual cultivation.
Green 2 is going to limit FVM, TRF and AE. Most probably the spiritual dice bonus Art we're planing to get too. (And perhaps any Argent Art successor we find and want to train.)

Imo it's preferable to end up as Green 2/Bronze 1 with EPC6 FVM7 SCS6 TRF6 (+whatever), than Green 2/Bronze 2 with an extra level of SCS7 but "only" EPC5 FVM6 & TRF5.

Realistically in the forseeable future we want to spend a Major every week on, at least, EPC, spiritual cultivation and Sect Mission/Favor.
With the last one freed up if we get a lucky stealth based Minor action.
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Nope. Green Appraisal is not a problem at all.

Yes, we can certainly have arts that are capped by Green appraisal... but only once we've trained them to that level. In practice, that constraint isn't going to bother us AT ALL, first because we can train to Green almost as fast as these arts advance, and second because we have other arts to work on in the meantime.

In particular. We currently need 500 experience to get to Green Appraisal. We get 1/4 of successes to Darkness and Water arts added to Spiritual. FVM6 takes 225 successes; assuming that SCS6 takes the same amount and we can scrooge up another 150 between training AE and AC, that comes to 600 successes there, which means +150 success to Spiritual. Now we only have 350xp to go. Next, if we train AC+AM+AS using the Silverblood Pills, that is likely another 50 successes to spiritual, which leaves only 300. At this point, the total xp for spiritual is barely more than the xp for FVM - and that is before we counted any overflow (which we should be getting plenty of if we are capping arts). And since Spiritual trains somewhat faster than arts, there is no way that we would actually get any significant problems here.
 
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