Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

But they don't sink through the floor, which means they're offsetting that somehow
The key word here is "somehow". If that'd be a telekinesis of some sort, they'd create a greater gravity than a black hole. So, your assumption is either wrong, or uncomplete.
Maybe they just can make it so their weight and mass not correlate, or something like that.
 
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The shop is fanon. Just like Coil's company was never called fortress industries, or the Winslow administration covering for Sophia because they get money from her being here. Coil's company was never named, they were willing to throw Taylor under the bus before Sophia became a ward and Parian only did some advertisement and Puppet shows on the board walk, she was still in college.

Edit: That being said, Fortress Industries is a cool name, the fact that they weren't even getting paid to throw her under the bus makes them worse in my eyes and a legal business legitimately run by a cape is just good world building.

Yeah, it's what I thought. There is also that when the whole Sophia thing is brought back during the story, Sophia is on the side with a lawyer, something Danny couldn't affort.

Correct me if I'm wrong; you are talking about damage to non-core parts of an endbringer, and saying that while it wouldn't kill them, it might disable them? Thus being a mission kill.

That would indeed be the case - BUT. All endbringers weigh an unimaginable amount. Like, a whole solar system, or even a galaxy worth of matter, in terms of density. But they don't sink through the floor, which means they're offsetting that somehow. If they can do that, they could just lift themselves off the ground as a limbless nugget. Any time you see an endbringer look like an injury is hindering them, they're just playing it up so they seem potentially defeatable.

So while you're 100% right about what a could constitute a mission kill as a concept, you're 100% wrong in saying damage to the body of an endbringer would be a mission kill.

Isn't their actual mass spread around many universes? That probably helps with the weoghr problem.
 
The key word here is "somehow". If that'd be a telekinesis of some sort, they'd create a greater gravity than a black hole. So, your assumption is either wrong, or uncomplete.
Maybe they just can make it so their weight and mass not correlate, or something like that.

I may be misremembering some things, but don't Endbringers do the same thing as the Entities and 'Spread out' their Mass across multiple dimensions, most likely through their Core?

Probably would even explain their Regeneration, it then merely being the Endbringers are reallocating mass from unimportant dimensions to fake having High-Speed Regeneration.
 
So many super powers come with fridge logic that is concerning, you just have to kind of ignore it some times.

Like literally all super strength doesn't work, because while you might be strong enough to lift a house, no part of the house the size of your hand is strong enough to support a house. All you can do is rip it to pieces.

All shapeshifting has concerning implications, because one of two things happen, either your mass is constant, which has a host of problems(like how your organs function), or your mass is not constant. But the second option is worse because this brings up the question where it goes and where it comes from. And the energy budget to make and disperse your own matter would be literally astronomical.

Being immune to fire still doesn't let you walk through burning buildings, because there's nothing to breath in there.

Any blaster power at all makes the laws of thermodynamics cry. Where/how were you holding onto that much energy? And why didn't releasing it fry you?

The list expands the more you think about it.
 
Tbf there is no 'no levelage feats' for Brutes in Worm, well, non that don't use a secundary power to actually do it at least (that I can remember anyway, and my memory is shit).

If there is something I like about Worm is that at least WB tried to explain the powers without just using author fiat. Tried.
 
One reason they don't allow much dimensional tech likely has to do with not wanting the test subjects to realize how much of the work is handled by continent-to-planet-sized biocrystal supercomputers.
 
So many super powers come with fridge logic that is concerning, you just have to kind of ignore it some times.

Like literally all super strength doesn't work, because while you might be strong enough to lift a house, no part of the house the size of your hand is strong enough to support a house. All you can do is rip it to pieces.
While the how can be "easily" explained with Tactile Telekinesis being one of the most popular explanations for functional super strength that still leaves the problems that comes with higher tier powers those with super speed should cause sonic booms every time they accelerate and super strong peoples punches should cause miniature earthquakes.
Not to mention the sheer modularity and control they have to be able to have a normal life without accidentally destroying everything around them.

Worm at least has Shards that explain why Powers work like in a Comic Book while still pretending to be a "realistic" world.
 
While the how can be "easily" explained with Tactile Telekinesis being one of the most popular explanations for functional super strength that still leaves the problems that comes with higher tier powers those with super speed should cause sonic booms every time they accelerate and super strong peoples punches should cause miniature earthquakes.
Not to mention the sheer modularity and control they have to be able to have a normal life without accidentally destroying everything around them.

Worm at least has Shards that explain why Powers work like in a Comic Book while still pretending to be a "realistic" world.

The zero range telekensis is a nice attempt at backwards logic, but lets not pretend that idea didn't came way after :p

Super speed is a great one too, speedsters are actually probably the single most effective but 'plain' power. Because at high enough speed nobody can see your hits coming, and F=MA, as a speedster, you got a REALLY big A.

Hell, if you can go super sonic you don't even need to hit people, you wave your hand past somebodies face at the speed of sound and let the sonic boom knock the shit out of em.

Super speed also implies super reaction time, with implies a BUNCH of brain augments to process and deal with info faster, and a bunch of durability boosts, because a normal human foot hitting the ground at 400km/h is not somebody having a good day.
 
Man, why does the Celestial Forge have to have so many perks in it

V1 was bad enough, but V3 is insane

You can't even find what you're looking for, and you could drop half of the perks without significantly tanking your power level
 
Didn't WB also explained that speedsters weren't really moving faster (except Legend)? Or at least I remember the one in BB just The World'd and moved normally during the time stop.
 
Didn't WB also explained that speedsters weren't really moving faster (except Legend)? Or at least I remember the one in BB just The World'd and moved normally during the time stop.

Well, yeah. Most speedsters in fiction use a Breaker effect to ignore the physics of fast motion.

Even Flicker and the Flash have to project their physics fuckery outwards just in order to move.
 
I didn't see anything on the Discord about it. Lord usually informs us if there will be a delay, so I think we are getting a chapter. Although I'm not 100 percent, so don't quote me on that.
 
The key word here is "somehow". If that'd be a telekinesis of some sort, they'd create a greater gravity than a black hole. So, your assumption is either wrong, or uncomplete.
Maybe they just can make it so their weight and mass not correlate, or something like that.

If they can make their weight an mass not correlate, they can absolutely use that same tech to float.
 
So two things about the Endbringer weakness thing.

1) WoG, every Shard has the ability to cause flight. It's incredibly simple for them to do. Most just don't bother because of some alien space whale logic. Thus, every Endbringer should be capable of flight, but only the Simurgh bothers. This could be a form of self-telekinesis or extremely rapid teleportation that appears as fluid movement or a mobile gravity well or- well anything really, but they're capable of it, just as they're capable of far more than ever demonstrated in the series. Remember, the Endbringers are sandbagging hard.

2) not WoG AFAIK but it's implied or hypothesized in-story that Endbringers layer their flesh across multiple dimensions, keeping the property of durability but massively reducing their effective weight. This effect becomes more pronounced as you approach the core, while outer layers of flesh only function as a pretty durable crystalline material. Further in, the overlap crosses over the Schwarzchild radius (if that's how you spell it) by a massive margin. It's pure Shard magic that this doesn't result in a black hole. The effect can be thought of as similar to Chevalier's power, where he layers multiple objects into a single instance and can select which properties of the constituent objects to manifest, including effective mass and volume.

3) none of an Endbringer's flesh matters but the core. If trapped, they can remove the trapped area. Certain parahuman effects just don't work as they approach the core- namely, Chevalier's combined weapon actually shattered into its constituent objects upon contact with Behemoth's core. Their core has defenses other than just being very massive and durable. The fact that their mass is separated over multiple dimensions means that just hitting the core isn't enough- even if you do manage to damage this instance of the core, there's a thousand thousand other dimensions with a layered copy of the core. Effectively, only Sting and Scion can actually meaningfully damage a core.

Now, as for what actually could Mission Kill an Endbringer... there are a few ways. Such as having Labyrinth and Scrub punch them into a different dimension, or having String Theory use a mass driver to punt them out of orbit, where they'll just stop working. Haywire could probably do so as well, but his status is never elaborated (that I know of) so who knows where he is or if he's alive.

Any way of disabling an Endbringer other than "put it somewhere else" would be... difficult. They tried for decades with more capes than are ever named and failed. Endbringers count against any applicable Manton Limits- they're either organic or inorganic, whichever counts in their favor. That invalidates most powers that could otherwise be useful. That leaves temporary half-measures like Clockblocker spending his entire life pausing Leviathan until another Endbringer decides to kill him, or actually giving the Endbringers what they want and fighting a losing fight.

Edit: did I say two? More than two. I fail math forever.
 
Didn't WB also explained that speedsters weren't really moving faster (except Legend)? Or at least I remember the one in BB just The World'd and moved normally during the time stop.
polarize-10-5 said:
[Whippersnap] was a speedster, but he looked and felt a damn sight like a bio-speedster. There were breaker speedsters like Velocity, who shifted into an alternate state to access reality on a different level, there were ones who had a great deal of propulsion, ones that manipulated the environment, and then there were the ones who just had biology that alien – usually through changer powers.
I believe you are thinking of SecondHand.
I don't think he was ever in Brockton though.

edit: SecondHand cannot move normally through timestop for the space between time (my term) is an inhospitable wasteland where even moving and breathing is a struggle much less the heat stroke.
 
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I didn't see anything on the Discord about it. Lord usually informs us if there will be a delay, so I think we are getting a chapter. Although I'm not 100 percent, so don't quote me on that.
he said he is trying to get back to the once a week chaps and unless there is an emergency in the next few hours, we getting a chappy
 
So two things about the Endbringer weakness thing.

1) WoG, every Shard has the ability to cause flight. It's incredibly simple for them to do. Most just don't bother because of some alien space whale logic. Thus, every Endbringer should be capable of flight, but only the Simurgh bothers. This could be a form of self-telekinesis or extremely rapid teleportation that appears as fluid movement or a mobile gravity well or- well anything really, but they're capable of it, just as they're capable of far more than ever demonstrated in the series. Remember, the Endbringers are sandbagging hard.

2) not WoG AFAIK but it's implied or hypothesized in-story that Endbringers layer their flesh across multiple dimensions, keeping the property of durability but massively reducing their effective weight. This effect becomes more pronounced as you approach the core, while outer layers of flesh only function as a pretty durable crystalline material. Further in, the overlap crosses over the Schwarzchild radius (if that's how you spell it) by a massive margin. It's pure Shard magic that this doesn't result in a black hole. The effect can be thought of as similar to Chevalier's power, where he layers multiple objects into a single instance and can select which properties of the constituent objects to manifest, including effective mass and volume.

3) none of an Endbringer's flesh matters but the core. If trapped, they can remove the trapped area. Certain parahuman effects just don't work as they approach the core- namely, Chevalier's combined weapon actually shattered into its constituent objects upon contact with Behemoth's core. Their core has defenses other than just being very massive and durable. The fact that their mass is separated over multiple dimensions means that just hitting the core isn't enough- even if you do manage to damage this instance of the core, there's a thousand thousand other dimensions with a layered copy of the core. Effectively, only Sting and Scion can actually meaningfully damage a core.

Now, as for what actually could Mission Kill an Endbringer... there are a few ways. Such as having Labyrinth and Scrub punch them into a different dimension, or having String Theory use a mass driver to punt them out of orbit, where they'll just stop working. Haywire could probably do so as well, but his status is never elaborated (that I know of) so who knows where he is or if he's alive.

Any way of disabling an Endbringer other than "put it somewhere else" would be... difficult. They tried for decades with more capes than are ever named and failed. Endbringers count against any applicable Manton Limits- they're either organic or inorganic, whichever counts in their favor. That invalidates most powers that could otherwise be useful. That leaves temporary half-measures like Clockblocker spending his entire life pausing Leviathan until another Endbringer decides to kill him, or actually giving the Endbringers what they want and fighting a losing fight.

Edit: did I say two? More than two. I fail math forever.

Id like to make one correction - the core is the one part of the endbringer that isnt in a bajillion dimensions at once. An annihilator cape like Damsel of Distress could conceivably kill an endbringer with knowledge if the core and the ability to safely reach it. Its well within the ability of a specially selected and trained group of capes to kill an endbringer but only with full knowledge of their mechanics - which is why theyre marginally more successful in Ward with the Titans than in Worm with the Endbringers. Its WoG that Amy could affect an endbringer if she could touch it for long enough without getting murdered for instance
 
Its WoG that Amy could affect an endbringer if she could touch it for long enough without getting murdered for instance
This kinda thing always weirded me out. It's not inconsistent I guess, since you also have things like Simurgh clone attempts from Blasto in canon, but even still. Those kinds of examples all point toward the Endbringers being actual creatures, in the sense of having functional bodies with some equivalent of DNA or whatever. But we also have evidence against that, in the form of their body's having no organs and being nothing but space-magically condensed undifferentiated crystal mass around a core which connects it all to a shard. It's quite confusing.

I wonder if Joe's giant implausible monster biology perk could offer any insight into how the Endbringers actually work?
 
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Actually- here's a thought... are Call-Beads what's causing the powerups with other parahumans (along with aperion, but I mean, he hasn't caused *that* big a ripple in the scale of things until the Gundum showed up)? I mean... they seem to enpower the links between Passengers and Hosts, without the emotional state needed- and they seem to bring Shards "Closer" together, similar to a group trigger...?

Not sure how accurate the idea is, but I'm sure someone is more familiar with the franchise they are from then I and can correct the stray thought.
 
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