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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Divad said:
I've found the misunderstandings regarding Joe and Taylor amusing up to now, but I hope that they get resolved amongst those that know Joe soon, because they will not remain amusing much longer. I also don't expect it, but I wish the new abilities and information would slow down. He doesn't have the time to actually use anything and develop stable reliable strategies and everything is under utilized. New abilities are only going to further confuse everything.
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Joe try to stay "in character" so if it's positive (or at least he think is positive) to cement than he an Khepry are an item i can see he "confirmig" first and traying to talk with Taylor later so funny misunderstanding can be a thing for a relative long time
 
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TitanFrost said:
I kind of like everything being underutilized. Not because I think it's necessary for an overpowered character to be crippled for the sake of the plot, but because the changes he has to make to his plans, the occasional confusion of mental alterations, and his need to build things in response to specific threats and obstacles on a tight deadline all come together to force Joe down tech paths he probably wouldn't have otherwise taken.
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Tinkerer main limit has always been time and resources. Most resources are no longer a problem for Joe (he still doesn't have access to the rarer stuff like Cybertronium, but everything else is in unlimited supply), but he is hit hard with the time constraint.

In addition, Brockton bay is a powder keg that just got a spark called Bakuda, so things are not gonna calm down before a long time (unless butterfly changes things massively). Just on top of my head, we still have Bakuda round 2, Leviathan, Coil, Echidina, the Slaughterhouse 9, and that's assuming the E88 and the merchant don't start a gang war / power grab. Yeah, still a few weeks of continuous explosions.

So he will continue to make-do with half baked inventions for quite a long time.
 
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Amy crush on Vicky wasn't all on her I could throw so many logical arguments on the abnormalities on it that seems to be more influence by some outside source than just self inflicted, Amy b&@ch attitude also can be blame on though partially at Carol since the women saw Amy as a villain in the making and never gave the love Amy needed that why Amy tries her hardest to prove herself and developed such nasty personality. In wards Victoria is a much of unreliable narrator as Taylor, well not to Taylor's own delusional level because one fact that is true is Tattletale is b&@tch that cause the downfall of a wannabe hero and healer( her needling of Amy is what began it all and the S9 is the one to finally finish it). Honestly I kinda hate fandom that Woobiefied the undersides more than panacea, since in different circumstances they wouldn't hesitate to attack Taylor if the stupid girl just stick to being a hero instead trying infiltrated them.
It's a fact that tattletale without coil still will be committing crime and Grue that another idiot that thought that in order to gain custody to his sister thought crime was the fastest route even though the PRT will probably bend backwards to gain more parahumans and give him what he wants.

Okay fact is there is blame to be spread equally and though Wildbow is a great writer there are times he makes critical research errors as brain chemistry can be mess with constant exposure to a stimulus, there is a reason why that theory about Glory girl aura mastering amy to give a sort of addicts syndrome holds value among fans especially those that actually does the research or knows about neuroscience. Worm or Wards is not the perfect logical and realistic story there are leaps in logic and some concerning plot holes that make someone scratch their head and wasn't supposed a deconstruction of the superhero genre how didn't Danny Hebert figure Taylor a cape there a limit, yes he was neglectful but come on he is not stupid and a the fight against stronger and more prepare opponents seems more like luck plays a factor.
 
Nimeroni said:
but he is hit hard with the time constraint.
[...]
So he will continue to make-do with half baked inventions for quite a long time.
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...You're kidding right?

Joe: There's never enough time in the day! I only built one small apartment and a mind-machine supercomputer throne and upgraded my AIs some and did some reverse engineering on Bakuda's bombs and did a total teardown+rebuild of my transforming fighter jet motorcycle and my new car and completed six full rounds of P90X on steroids and maybe a few other things and then the day was done. I had to go to bed.
Joe: I just can't get anything done!

*Armsmaster spits blood*

I mean, cmon. You're gonna make all the mere mortal Tinkers feel bad

It may seem like forever to readers when we have these Workshop updates :p, but in-story timewise he's actually impossible stupid fast crafting at this point.
 
Eternaly_Lost said:
I do understand, but this was starting to turn into a case of if we never set a deadline, there would always be one more perk and the revision would never be done. I talked to Galaxy about it and he agreed that after a month of time to source perks, holding off further work for random perks coming in would just mean it never gets done.

There is talk of a version 2.1 in a year or something, but right now, we working on getting this refined into a proper document from the over 2000 perks that was submitted for review. This is going to take a while as it is. It would be amazing if we had this done by the end of the year with all the review and processing that has to go on.
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Oh I am not saying it's your or the writer fault, it was my own laziness that didn't help me finished that night
 
klassekatze said:
...You're kidding right?
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No.

You have to remember he is getting about 8 perks per days (at least that was the number I found last time I checked). Yes, he craft new toys very fast when compared to other Tinkers, but incredibly slowly when compared to how fast he get new perks. His engineering ability is lagging behind his theoretical knowledge. The last day / 2 chapters was his attempt at building the tools he will need to finally close the gap, and even with that, some techs stays out of his reach.

And that's not even the worst part. Brockton bay is a power keg, and the firework won't wait for him. He will need to divert some of his precious building time toward practical applications he can use right now. Things like defences, weapons, something to disarm Bakuda dead man switch, something to track down the ABB, maybe do his PR for once... and that's just for his current problem - a whole new host of problems will soon appear.

Of course, those are First World Problems, all other Tinkers in the story would sell an arm and a leg just to get a small part of his perks. It's also possible all his problems could suddenly disappear with the right perk.

klassekatze said:
Joe: There's never enough time in the day! I only built one small apartment and a mind-machine supercomputer throne and upgraded my AIs some and did some reverse engineering on Bakuda's bombs and did a total teardown+rebuild of my transforming fighter jet motorcycle and my new car and completed six full rounds of P90X on steroids and maybe a few other things and then the day was done. I had to go to bed.
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You forgot saving Weld, getting some element zero (a big practical breakthrough), restructuring a massive amount of his own personal pocket universe, and getting in touch with his allies. And the day isn't finished, he might do some other stuff before going to bed.

I hope the "other stuff" will include his PR.
 
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Yeah Joe is the equivalent to a first world country, with the other tinkers as a third world country(whit maybe the exception of dragon as a second world country).
What he needs is a way to make permanent clones to star catching his engineering power.
 
Well if he were to invest into homunculi (for the bodies only) and conect them to the throne for him and/or his clones to control vía the throne,then the actual Tinker time grew exponentialy. Of corse thats the wet tinker way., there is always the option of do the same directly controling more "Transformers" specialiced on one or more fields., how much time he need for say 10 not conbatants? 30 to 40 min each?
 
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Daxus1120 said:
Amy crush on Vicky wasn't all on her I could throw so many logical arguments on the abnormalities on it that seems to be more influence by some outside source than just self inflicted, Amy b&@ch attitude also can be blame on though partially at Carol since the women saw Amy as a villain in the making and never gave the love Amy needed that why Amy tries her hardest to prove herself and developed such nasty personality. In wards Victoria is a much of unreliable narrator as Taylor, well not to Taylor's own delusional level because one fact that is true is Tattletale is b&@tch that cause the downfall of a wannabe hero and healer( her needling of Amy is what began it all and the S9 is the one to finally finish it). Honestly I kinda hate fandom that Woobiefied the undersides more than panacea, since in different circumstances they wouldn't hesitate to attack Taylor if the stupid girl just stick to being a hero instead trying infiltrated them.
It's a fact that tattletale without coil still will be committing crime and Grue that another idiot that thought that in order to gain custody to his sister thought crime was the fastest route even though the PRT will probably bend backwards to gain more parahumans and give him what he wants.
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Don't shift the discussion about Vicky's aura and Amy being a bitch to the Undersiders being presented in fanfics

Amy's problems came from her environment and Amy not doing anything about it like going to therapy or just taking a break like what Gallant wanted her to do. It's mostly Amy trying to find validation that she is "good", hell being "overworked" isn't even part of her problems since she only does 2-3 hours volunteer work and that the reason she doesn't charge with her healing is because she is still a minor.

Daxus1120 said:
Okay fact is there is blame to be spread equally and though Wildbow is a great writer there are times he makes critical research errors as brain chemistry can be mess with constant exposure to a stimulus, there is a reason why that theory about Glory girl aura mastering amy to give a sort of addicts syndrome holds value among fans especially those that actually does the research or knows about neuroscience. Worm or Wards is not the perfect logical and realistic story there are leaps in logic and some concerning plot holes that make someone scratch their head and wasn't supposed a deconstruction of the superhero genre how didn't Danny Hebert figure Taylor a cape there a limit, yes he was neglectful but come on he is not stupid and a the fight against stronger and more prepare opponents seems more like luck plays a factor.
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That's cool but you are trying to paint it as if Vicky was all to blame when she only had powers for two years pre-canon 2011, not to mention comes from a family with a neglectful mother that distrust her and an absentee father due to massive depression with only Vicky being the person to actually give her time and affection that she wanted.

With the sheer paranoia of the PRT against any Master or emotion manipulation ability you don't think they would have gone extreme amounts of testing to see if Vicky's power has long lasting damage? Because other people in her age like their cousins Crystal and Eric Pelham or any of their school mates comes out with no problems, or if Vicky really does long term mastering Carol and Mark would be happier, attentive and loving to her surprise surprise they ain't. Carol is still a bitch with massive control and trusting issues and Mark is still super depressed that he can't even pay attention to Vicky.

Isn't it weird how the only character that is seemingly affected by this "long term master effect" is a character who is depressed and wants to find validation loving the person who actually gives her said validation and love in a family that neglects said character?🤔
 
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Denty said:
With the sheer paranoia of the PRT against any Master or emotion manipulation ability you don't think they would have gone extreme amounts of testing to see if Vicky's power has long lasting damage?
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Actually, no, they probably wouldn't. For a number of cynical reasons. Private citizen, powerful, heroic image, lawyer mother, established ally they don't want to alienate in a shitty city, etc etc etc.

But... suppose they did. Even if they did, they could test her, determine that it has no lasting damage, and it still be used to mold people. Pavlovian conditioning is what's being proposed here. It is explicitly a process by which you use 100% not-permanent effects to ultimately create lasting changes in behavior. No powers even required, so any amount can only help.

In fact, it is directly paralleled in-story with Cherish.

Cherish's power is also supposed to be transient, to not last, but she intends to work around that with the S9 using the same mechanism: feel-good when people do what she wants, feel-bad when they don't. Like dog treats. The artificial feelings don't last, but the experiences and memories do, and over time they shape the victims. It's all but stated this would have worked, if Bonesaw wasn't 1 step ahead of her.

It's important to understand that if Glory Girl was doing this, it would not be a conscious thing.

"She radiates an energy that makes her allies more inclined to like, respect and look up to her, while making her terrifying and intimidating to her enemies."

Amy is a very unhappy girl, but every time she is in the presence of her sister, she feels positive emotions towards her. Even if those emotions are artificial, even if they wouldn't produce any measurable influence in even a prolonged test, they would still generate a Pavlovian response. It's literally just how it works.

Whether it's powers, cocaine, or chocolate treats, if you're always happier around Vicky then your brain will associate Vicky with happiness, to the point you'll be happy with Vicky even in the absence of the stimulant (aura) that was previously being used.

It's nothing that hasn't been proven in real life, to the point of even conditioning humans to experience typically involuntary things on verbal command. (the most obvious example would unfortunately be a bit lewd)

As this is an indirect and slow thing, it wouldn't change anyone's personality. Her father still has his mental disorder, her mother is still a bitch, and Amy is still depressed. None of them start slavering at Vicky's toes. Even so, her power could have a very real influence on how they perceive Victoria over time. A fitting influence for Worm, even: her triggering ultimately from a need to be a hero only to have all hero worship tainted by the question of whether it's entirely 'real'.

Did it make Amy love her? Probably not all by itself. Would Amy have latched onto her over literally everyone else if Vicky didn't literally radiate feel-good? To the point that she feels zero romantic interest in anyone else of any gender ever.

Maybe. Maybe not.
 
Glad I found this story. It is very good and I will be looking forward to more of it. Though I just have to wander how long it will be before the Dragon Slayers drop into the story since he is obviously creating AI.
 
The Dragonslayers are obsessed with Dragon specifically, and if they branched out it'd only be if they thought there was another AI as advanced as her. They don't target literally any Tinker that shows autonomous drones/robots.
 
Not only that, but the Dragonslayer are not very good when it come to combat. They only got that far against Dragon because they know all her weakness. Against someone like Apeiron ? Quick death.
 
HallowedA said:
The Dragonslayers are obsessed with Dragon specifically, and if they branched out it'd only be if they thought there was another AI as advanced as her. They don't target literally any Tinker that shows autonomous drones/robots.
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they arn't against automation, they are anti AI. So automous drones are fine, VI is fine, simple robots are fine, high level AI are from 40k. Even if said AI isn't as strong as dragon, Saint would still call it an Abomanable Intelligence and try to purge it with plasma after stealing all it's stuff. Especially the stuff that needs inhuman operating capabilities to use safely, and then blame any operating error on the AI...

And yeah, any AI competent enough to get their attention without the kind of artificial weaknesses dragon has would roflstomp them.
 
Nimeroni said:
No.

You have to remember he is getting about 8 perks per days (at least that was the number I found last time I checked). Yes, he craft new toys very fast when compared to other Tinkers, but incredibly slowly when compared to how fast he get new perks. His engineering ability is lagging behind his theoretical knowledge. The last day / 2 chapters was his attempt at building the tools he will need to finally close the gap, and even with that, some techs stays out of his reach.

And that's not even the worst part. Brockton bay is a power keg, and the firework won't wait for him. He will need to divert some of his precious building time toward practical applications he can use right now. Things like defences, weapons, something to disarm Bakuda dead man switch, something to track down the ABB, maybe do his PR for once... and that's just for his current problem - a whole new host of problems will soon appear.

Of course, those are First World Problems, all other Tinkers in the story would sell an arm and a leg just to get a small part of his perks. It's also possible all his problems could suddenly disappear with the right perk.



You forgot saving Weld, getting some element zero (a big practical breakthrough), restructuring a massive amount of his own personal pocket universe, and getting in touch with his allies. And the day isn't finished, he might do some other stuff before going to bed.

I hope the "other stuff" will include his PR.
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to be fair, selling an arm and a leg for half his powers isn't that much when that would ad up to atleast 2 new ways of getting said limbs back in an improved state anyway... even if one is clone tssue and the other is battle cyborg leg that goes 0-300 in seconds, with inbuilt oil dispenser, murderball catchers and chainsaws... i didn't like he murder-ball arc in Lolita, but damn if the cyborg bodies in it weren't cool...
 
Inbetweenaction said:
to be fair, selling an arm and a leg for half his powers isn't that much when that would ad up to atleast 2 new ways of getting said limbs back in an improved state anyway... even if one is clone tssue and the other is battle cyborg leg that goes 0-300 in seconds, with inbuilt oil dispenser, murderball catchers and chainsaws... i didn't like he murder-ball arc in Lolita, but damn if the cyborg bodies in it weren't cool...
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I think they would sell a lot more.... though they could probably bring back their family if we talk about half of the full forge. Though if we talk currently... well they would be in a bad position if they sell too much. I mean half doesn't mean they get the warhouse for sure. ;) They could get some but if they dont get the key they will regret their decision fast.

Nice day too you. lol
 
McPuffin Muffin said:
I remember reading Lolita back in the day, but I don't think there were any cyborgs or 'murder-balls' in it. 🤔😲😂
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sorry, meant alita, autocorrupted.

was book 2, i believe. She went emo after her boyfriend turned idiot and tried to climb to tiphares. It's where she put Berzerk body into storage and started doing motorball, the anything goes rolerderby with cyborgs and deathtraps.

It's where she got that blade Joe got with his perk. it's Alitas family fun blade of sportsmanship. and also murder.

Edit: To be fair, Lolita would definatly improve if it also contained cyborgs and murderball. lusting after a preeteen girl does sound like something best set to the mutilation of fans as you watch cyborgs murder each other as they chase around the lovechild of a Harry potter bludger that decided to get freaky with something descendent from when a chainsaw and a railroad spike made love. You know, just to get that truly decadent feeling.
 
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I don't want to derail but is there a place to help in adding new perks for the celestial forge I wanna help in adding perks, here as an idea i had:

Perkaholic (Call of Duty Zombies): Basically it allows the jumper to be able to build the perk machines from Call of duty (Juggernog, Speed cola, Stamin Up, Double Tap etc), but to not make it too op i would say the drawbacks would be if the person takes a massive amount of damage all the perks are lost (Like when the player is down in the game), The person can only hold 4 perks and last but not least, you cant build the sodas individually, you have to build the whole machine, which would take some resources and massive amount of electricity to power up.
 
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