Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
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Cosmic in the Discord server archives them. Here's an invite
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I have a question, and it's something that most likely was answered already, but is there really any benefit to the Truth (FMA) perk as Joe currently is? Because by the perk's description the only thing of significance is not needing transmutation circles since Joe probably already have the other half of that perk (Amestris Style Alchemy mastery) between time acceleration and improvement perks.
Sure, since it's "after jump" he doesn't need to lose his voice, arm, hand, or the other arm, and I'm sure Lord will spin it into the narrative so Joe can get some in-character revelation from meeting his own Truth, but the perk itself isn't that important overall. Not when Joe can instantly fabricate a transmutation circle if he wants anyway.
And a less important question, is there a perk any of you want to see, not because of what it does precisely, but because is from an IP you like? Because I really want to see the Blazblue and Etrian Odissey perks, even if they are pretty much unimportant (magical weapons/artifact creation and how to make stuff out of monsters' bits respectively).
Sure, since it's "after jump" he doesn't need to lose his voice, arm, hand, or the other arm, and I'm sure Lord will spin it into the narrative so Joe can get some in-character revelation from meeting his own Truth, but the perk itself isn't that important overall. Not when Joe can instantly fabricate a transmutation circle if he wants anyway.
And a less important question, is there a perk any of you want to see, not because of what it does precisely, but because is from an IP you like? Because I really want to see the Blazblue and Etrian Odissey perks, even if they are pretty much unimportant (magical weapons/artifact creation and how to make stuff out of monsters' bits respectively).
Clap Alchemy considered working by hand, so Fay Craftsmanship applied (and that not being applied normally is the main reason Joe does not use alchemy). Plus, everything in alchemy is rendered down to base materials before being build back up into something, so Norse Dwarf Craftsmanship applied to everything too. Plus Unnatural Skill Alchemy compounds the benefits. You see, the problem that when you think about Joe after The Truth you think about things the Elric brothers were capable of, and that is wrong. Think more - Father after he swallowed the God. But with more bullshit. Basically, The Truth is the gate to Joe being able to manipulate the material world by will alone without losing any benefit of doing it any other way.
The Transformers' Capstone perks. Sure, increased leadership skills, wisdom of Solomon and ability to give soul to anything are neat, but I mainly want to hear the continuation of the story of Apeiron Prime. What he was up to in The Great War and all that jazz. Plus, curious what All Spark Chosen all about. Is it a blessing from Primus, some sort of incarnation of Well of All-Spark, connection to Beast Machines' Matrix entity or something even weirder? At least with Matrix of Leadership, inspiration is clear as glass, but I have no idea what Lord will make of All Spark Chosen, there is no clear parallel character to this sort of power in Transformers media, as far as I've seen.
Glory to the Legion, because it compounds with some of Tybalt's perks and because Aisha's reactions would be hilarious. But not nearly as much as everyone else* looking at their theoretical Cluster suddenly showing legitimately identical powers across the board and going "called it!" Despite being horribly wrong.
* PRT, Protectorate, March/Uber etc.
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Oh, didn't think of it that way. Wasn't really thinking about the Elrics (brothers and dad), I was just thinking current Joe with one less step tbh 😅
Remind me, Cauldron knows that Shards have a "batery life", right? Since that's Eidolon's problem I mean. Makes me wonder if they think the CF Cluster will have that problem sooner rather than later and that that's their plan if they become too much of a problem to be beneficial (to them): just let nature take it's course and have them slowly become weaker and weaker.
Still waiting for that awkward conversation between Mr. Zero Social Skills and Ape Tech Support to restore his declining powers btw. That will be fun 😁
Truth puts him at Father/Hohenheim lv which for Joe translates to thought alchemy where it all counts as hand crafted. For perks I would warn you that lord has been really short of time so is a long way from adding anything to the list and if it was it'd probably be that manga he said he only had 60 odd chapters left to read like 2 and a half years ago Medaka Box iirc. He's also being somewhat picky about it since he's said he'd like to aim for Kingdom Hearts as being one of the next ones but the jumpdoc for that is about the series as a whole and at minimum the perk pulls from kh 1, kh 2 and 358/2 days tho knowing lord he'd probably insist on playing the others out by then like re:com and bbs anyway. Another example is how when he heard Okami was a good candidate to consider because it's a great game that only takes around 40 hrs to 100 % he dismissed it because it only had 1 cheap perk he wasn't interested in.
Honestly tho there aren't many franchises left that I know that Joe doesn't have stuff from idk about the ones available to be rolled but of the excluded ones there's only 5 (kh, Etrian Odyssey, ff 12, Okami and Code Geass) and none I'm that fussed over getting for the sake of the verse itself.
They are aware Eidolon's power keeps weakening and the booster shots help but it's unclear if they've realised about the battery life because it's never said and they are idiots with a long history of mind bogglingly moronic ideas so you shouldn't assume. I would note tho Eidolon took his vial in 86 and was still at full power when Behemoth appeared at the end of 93 so even if they do they shouldn't expect it to be an issue for the forge anytime soon.
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Tbh I would rather Lord read the wikis for stuff like KH, EO, or BB since background stuff is so rarely explained unless you take a deep dive into it. Hell, BB barely explain stuff in the fighting games and throws it all into the side content (novels, databooks, that one visual novel sub-series).
EO itself barely have in-depth worldbuilding lore IIRC, just the surface level worldbuilding.
Good point, just that I'm reminded that the Portalmaker had their Shard ran out of juice pretty quick after Keplor started to use their power in excess, so I would think Eidolon would have the same problem before long, a straight decline rather than a graceful slope. And I think even in this fic someone thinks about how Eidolon have grown noticebly weaker over the last few years.
...Now that I think about it, we have never had a Cauldron interlude, that would be fun too.
Lord is being a perfectionist about adding things because of the whole Joe counts as a normal citizen of the verse so for example he will become a Newtype if he gets to space thing he's insisting on thoroughly getting through the canon of whatever the perk is from even when the perks themselves don't really need it.
For example I mentioned ff 12 is an excluded verse well that only has 1 200 perk on how the airships work in the forge and if you've played ff 12 or even it's sequel Revenant Wings and connected stuff like A2 tactics you know that in all of them airships are there but they go into how they work about as much as the average thing with cars in it goes into how it works which is to say not at all other than maybe some npcs talking about it or possibly in some of those lore pages you get from beating the same enemy type multiple times so it would be honestly better to look at the wiki or lore videos but lord is insisting on fully playing the game especially since he isn't allowing things like Joe has a perk from Tales of Symphonia so he should have TP and Tybalt should have some insight into using it especially with the Demon Fang perk.
Being fair Doormaker is one of Cauldron's older capes probably getting his vial around the same time as the Triumvirate in 86 with the scion fight being in late 2013. His power is also pretty heavily used by them since on top of people like Contessa using it to get around they keep permanently open ones to connect different parts to their base and QAylor was using a very large number including wearing a mantle of portals.
You may also rejoice for there is a wog that there will be a Cauldron interlude (tho whose pov is unknown) before the nine are taken down so probably in 3-6 months given it'd logically be at least a few after Weld and Lily return in a few hours and inform them about whatever they want to share which puts it after stuff like the gym trip and talk with Taylor and very likely to be one of the interludes that happens once Joe's stuff for the day has finished.
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I get it, there is lots of things one may miss from just reading wikis (specially since they are made by fans), not to mention that he may miss the visual storytelling in some works.
Still a bit frustrating since Lord may never add Blazblue (it have an annoyingly large amount of side content, it makes KH look small) or EO (80hrs long hard games that have almost independent lore between entries, including the remakes).
I love the IPs, but they are unaccesable as all hell in the west.
Audible gasp! Does that mean I will have a Cauldron Interlude for my birthday (february)!? Thank you, Lord! 🥰
Getting more about the Taylor situation will be great too, it's been... 2 days? Since the Emma thing happened, and the cops were really motivated to get things done. And Joe should be Lucky enough that the investigation should be done before the S9 arrives to murk things up, or at least go uninterrupted since Joe will deal with that fast enough that the PRT won't be able to save Stalker's ass by being too busy dealing with the aftermath.
Fun fun fun!
At this point I think that Aisha might be able to refuel his powers depending on whether her Shard can act as a go-between for his Shard and the sources of power she has access to.
To be fair Khepri was using Doormaker's power both excessively and highly abnormally.
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Nah, I'm sure it was Fortuna's fault.
Contessa, on the couch: Path to reaching my cup ramen.
PtV: Get up-
Contessa: Door to cup ramen. Oh, and to Dr. Pepper. No, I don't care if they are the Numberman's, he didn't label them and he ate my oreos the other day!
Wasn't the problem with his Shard that it's practically brain dead and isn't using the part that deal with generating more energy? Or at least I think that was the WoG, fics tend to cover those up in my head.
Caldron knows that there is some crazy thinker powers going on with CF, I seriously doubt they will at any point attempt to make contact and risk all their dirty laundry getting exposed
I'm more interested in knowing how do they feel about a group outgunning them
It's current function just takes a lot of energy as I understand it.
Per wog they haven't realised the forge has subverted the path so thinks Contessa can deal with it on top of believing Coil when he says he can handle it which means they aren't in a rush and as such won't try to make contact before the nine get taken down. However, that means they won't try to make contact until after the forge is on the clean up tour where they are going to discover some of what Cauldron has been up to due to stuff like Greyboy.
Edit: Both quotes from Chapter 103 (specifically the Accord addendum)
The usage of "all" indicate that Cauldron doesn't know they are being misled. They think he is still pathable and as such a factor entirely within their control, meaning that they can ensure the CF doesn' leak any secrets (either through convincing or killing them)
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Ok, so they don't have "correct" info, but what "incorrect" info do they have? They HAVE to know they are outgunned, and they have to know that their secrets are at risk if they make contact with the forge. Any "incorrect" assessment in those points would be too outlandish given the abilities showcased by CF
Already covered it but they believed Coil when he said he had Apeiron handled and they think Contessa can handle him however they want because they haven't realised he's duped ptv.
The incorrect pieces of data (i remember) is this:
-Apeiron holds contracts in extremly high regard.
-Apeiron will react when contracts are broken/if offensive action is taken against him
-He is not a blindspot
-He is a "mad-tinkerer" (As implied in the Chubster interludes)
-The CF is a cluster
Those mean that all Cauldron needs to do (from their perspective) is to convince him to sign a contract, something Contessa should be able to do (as she knows the exact steps to make him to that) that ensures he doesn't work against their goals.
Also, on being outgunned while absolutely true so long as he isnt a blindspot (he is) Contessa can merely gather the necessary parahumans that can kill him (according to PtV) and do whatever. They can (from their perspective) kill everyone involved with the CF with no (or minimal) casualties because PtV says they can and whie PtV is relying on bad data (that VASTLY undersells the capabilites of the CF and misjudges their character)
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"With PtV we WILL find a way to defeat the Celestial Forge!"
"But PtV doesn't work on them, how do you PtV to win against something unPtVable?"
"......We PtV them harder!"
There is also that they know that Annihilitator powers won't work on him anymore (he learned to dodge!), so there isn't much that can be done to Joe.
"But PtV doesn't work on them, how do you PtV to win against something unPtVable?"
"......We PtV them harder!"
There is also that they know that Annihilitator powers won't work on him anymore (he learned to dodge!), so there isn't much that can be done to Joe.
Oh, this has the potential to be epic. I hope the story goes in this direction. TBH it has been way too "safe" for... years now (Wow, the "Ungodly hour" was written more than 3 years ago...)
But a fully functional PtV can still manipulate him into failing the dodge, or dodging into a different annihilator attack, or into self-destructing.
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Actually only flechete and weld know that he has a tech to dodge or whatever.
The latest appearance of Apeiron (in combat) resulted in him being extracted out by the strongest stranger on Earth-Bet after being hit by an annihilator effect he couldnt dodge because he was unaware of it.
So long as they catch him offguard (something that is proven to be possible from their perspective) they can attempt to hit him with any kind of effect including: Gray-boy esque time loops/freezes (Tetra houdinis him out), master effects (immune), portals (there is like a million ways he has to get back) or anything else that they are capable of that isnt a stereotypical annihilator effect. Once again his capabilities are vastly underestimated and the only proof there is that Joe is immune to annihilator effects are a few words he spoke with Flachette, everyone else (at the moment) thinks annihilators are one of the few things capable of damaging him leading to annihilators becoming highly valuably by the Brockton Bay gangs to such an extent the Empire 88 specifically saught out Damsel of Distress so they can have a token resistance against him.