Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[BelligerentGnu]

Two things.

One, I'm completely serious about that translation idea. A device that analyzes Garment's clothing and posture, and converts that into an english sentence of what she's communicating is something Joe could make in minutes, if that. And a device that analyzes intended communication, converts that into an outfit, and projects that on the speaker in a semi-real way only perceptible to Garment's fashion sense is also something he could make in minutes. The second one would just be hugely beneficial to Garment in general. I would love if LR used this idea.

Second, what is wrong with some of you? This chapter had small but very real and significant progress on several fronts.

- Joe's self-image is changing regarding his social ability.
- Lisa is starting to accept that maybe Joe just isn't someone she can steer, and is inch by inch coming closer to working with him in spirit.
- Garment is no longer oblivious! Useless lesbian flirting ahead!
- Most of all, LR all but stated "GULLY GETS HEALED NEXT CHAPTER". That's one single transitional chapter between significant events.

Calm the heck down.

 

[Lopezelpesado]

I would actually love to see Lisa interact with Fleet... Or anyone in the forge really.

 

[yuthirin]

But, of course, for the biggest impact you had to circle back to the Prismatic Laboratory.

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The Neathbow (and other Neathy delights) continues to be the most terrifying thing in Joe's arsenal. Delicious.

 

[beowolf]

A concept like the Celestial Forge is inherently absurd and chaotic. I've been looking for similar stories as this one for some time now, but nobody I've found so far has gone to the same lengths to make their story come to life, so 90% of the impact is lost.

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If you're specifically talking about Celestial Forge fics, I can't really help you, but if you're just interested in something with a similar level of detail and quality and fine with it having only gotten three-quarters of a million words before dieing...

Well, I may have nostalgia goggles on when describing Man Off The Moon that way, given the years between it dieing and now. But I don't think I do.

 

[Mr_Rose]

So we totally get to see Joe verbally destroy Jack Slash before actually destroying him, right? Right?

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I still say the best way to destroy Jack is for Joe to ignore him. Or even Ignore him with Avoidance. Jacks ego couldn't handle the mighty Apeiron not treating him as a peer and debating him or listening to him waffle on about how great life is as a murder hobo. Joe going straight for Mannequin and apologising to whatever's left of Sphere in there before wiping him out then letting the rest of his team handle the balance of the nine would make the guy bluescreen.

 

[krzys2000]

Sad it's not an 800 point but xeno is still awesome.

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True I hoped for Glory to me or any other "Divine" pearks

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Joe's anger at Lisa leaving a child to be stuck drugged up to the gills in a creeps basement, and specifically causing her to stay in that position because of her need to be in control, will be legendary I reckon.

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Actually, this is a really good point, and it brings up two issues.

One, unless Joe is massively spoofing Tattletale's power - and he isn't, because she can still read him enough to get some things - she has to realize just how badly Joe will react to that. Which should make her not just nervous, but guilty-nervous, which Joe should absolutely pick up on with his sensory and social abilities.

Two - given what Tattletale has said, and what Joe knows about the Travelers, Survey should absolutely know everything there is to know about Coil and his operations by now. Sooooo......why hasn't she told Joe about it? I feel certain that Joe could do a long-distance ritual to completely analyze Noelle, and I'm sure Survey doesn't give the slightest shit about Tattletale's neuroses.

Not intended in an angry way at all, but it does seem like a plot hole now that I think about it.

 

[Mr_Rose]

True I hoped for Glory to me or any other "Divine" pearks

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Wait, is "Glory to me/the Legion" determined by the roll or by Joe making an active choice? Because I feel like he'd go with Legion, personally. Unless the perk is repeatable so he can get both…

 

[The Shallow]

Two things.

One, I'm completely serious about that translation idea. A device that analyzes Garment's clothing and posture, and converts that into an english sentence of what she's communicating is something Joe pull make in minutes, if that. And a device that analyzes intended communication, converts that into an outfit, and projects that on the speaker in a semi-real way only perceptible to Garment's fashion sense is also something he could make in minutes. The second one would just be hugely beneficial to Garment in general. I would love if LR used this idea.

Second, what is wrong with some of you? This chapter had small but very real and significant progress on several fronts.

- Joe's self-image is changing regarding his social ability.
- Lisa is starting to accept that maybe Joe just isn't someone she can steer, and is inch by inch coming closer to working with him in spirit.
- Garment is no longer oblivious! Useless lesbian flirting ahead!
- Most of all, LR all but stated "GULLY GETS HEALED NEXT CHAPTER". That's one single transitional chapter between significant events.

Calm the heck down.

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Also we have Joe finally aware that Garment has been flirting with him the whole time, and he dodged it for now but there's no way that goes nowhere.

 

[Narsauce]

A concept like the Celestial Forge is inherently absurd and chaotic. I've been looking for similar stories as this one for some time now, but nobody I've found so far has gone to the same lengths to make their story come to life, so 90% of the impact is lost.

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Honestly, the pace of BCF, while slow, I feel like it work to the benefit of Lord's style of writing and the Celestial Forge as a mechanic. Granted, some things needed to be ironed out, like powers overlapping into new powers and whatnot, and point sinks needed to be added to keep up with the accelerated perk gain, but IMO slower works wonders for the CF. It lets characters take the front stage, rather than simply being a show room for all the power and munchkinnery in the world.

Also, to be fair, we all kinda knew what we were getting in to. BCF has always been a slower story with transitory chapters, internal monologues and character dissections. Other CF stories have tried to capture that, but it's fallen to the wayside in favour of speeding up the story to a ludicrous degree. It'd be like if Lord just decided next chapter the S9 were going to die, all twenty Endbringers were going to fucking teleport to Brockton Bay, Eden was going to get up from her nap/coma and Scion was going to delete half of Africa, Europe and Quebec. A lot of CF stories speed up ridiculously quickly and tend to loose sight of their characters in a sea of powers that just keep getting bigger and bigger.

Finally, I feel like Joe is a model Celestial Forge protagonist. A character, native to the universe the story takes place in, with little to no meta knowledge of the setting. He takes precautions that people reading might find stupid because we know the truth, and he should do what we would do. But he's not an SI, and this isn't just him being sent to a story, this world is his life. SIs tend to introduce a disconnect with the world that works, in my honest opinion, against the Celestial Forge rather than with it.

Anyway, that's my rant, feel free to tell me I'm the dumb dumb.

Also, once again, amazing chapter, and a big thank you to @LordRoustabout for all of your great work. Here's hoping life can give you a bit of a break.

One, unless Joe is massively spoofing Tattletale's power - and he isn't, because she can still read him enough to get some things - she has to realize just how badly Joe will react to that. Which should make her not just nervous, but guilty-nervous, which Joe should absolutely pick up on with his sensory and social abilities.

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Bittofa quick add on, but Lisa doesn't fully know about Dinah. She know's Coil has her, but she as of yet doesn't know the reason why. Lisa suspects a political bargaining chip with the Mayor. We know this is incorrect. And while it is still something Lisa should've told Joe about (because kidnapping children to be used as political trading cards is bad), she doesn't actually know that Dinah is drugged off her fucking rocker.

Two - given what Tattletale has said, and what Joe knows about the Travelers, Survey should absolutely know everything there is to know about Coil and his operations by now. Sooooo......why hasn't she told Joe about it? I feel certain that Joe could do a long-distance ritual to completely analyze Noelle, and I'm sure Survey doesn't give the slightest shit about Tattletale's neuroses.

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Because Survey is directing most if not all of her attention towards active gang conflicts and the S9. As such, Joe is letting Lisa handle the Coil situation because A. Much bigger issues and B. Despite the constant annoyance Lisa (and the rest, for that matter) provides him, Joe does genuinely want to help the Undersiders. Letting Tattletale feel like she can actually do something or at the minimum feel like she's in control of her own life is one such way of helping them.

Also, Lisa knows better than most Joe's capabilities. But that's like saying an ant knows what an ocean looks like because it has seen a puddle. The full extent of Joe's capabilities, even to her, are a massively long list of question marks and head-shaped indents in walls.

 

[CircleTheSkies]

At least in vague terms. The power didn't actually give me any direct technical knowledge, just the capacity to easily discern it through casual investigation. Just observing a piece of alien technology or an example of their scientific principles was enough for me to gain information on the underlying principles and operations, and actually interacting with the technology massively accelerated the process.

It was a major power that was entirely focused on reverse engineering alien tech, though through a seriously obtuse method. That didn't change the fact that it was incredibly powerful, allowing me to discern the purpose of any piece of tinker tech with nothing but a glance and fully understanding the operational principles, to the point of replication and improvement, with nothing but a brief examination of the device in question.

...

Xenoarcheaologist (Stargate SG-1) 600:
For whatever reason, understanding the civilizations of old means you're able to understand alien technology a lot better. You may not know everything off the bat, but upon first sight you have an idea of what it was meant for... and the longer you look at it, the more information you can glean. Fiddling with it will let you familiarize yourself with it more quickly.

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To be honest, myself I'm more interested in to what extent this would naturally go the other way - that is, that by examining alien technology can he better understand the culture that originated it?

 

[famfrit]

studio and at the charity shoe

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Garment would probably be furious over this typo

They's just have to wait for a bit."

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They'll

I hate these transition chapters where nothing really happens

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It's not really nothing given Lisa's call happened which was one of the events on the schedule even if only as a maybe due to the previous we don't have to do these every day thing.

Does this give him a stargate [and cause there to exist a network of other planets connected via stargates], or is this just a mostly useless "how to use the thing he doesn't have because the jump doc was originally designed with the expectation that someone would be in the actual stargate universe"?

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It gives him the dialling device but not a stargate.

Joe's anger at Lisa leaving a child to be stuck drugged up to the gills in a creeps basement, and specifically causing her to stay in that position because of her need to be in control, will be legendary I reckon.

Permanently working relationship tarnishing legendary. The only reason I think he's put up with so much is because his passenger likes her. Saving Dinah, ending Coil and even fixing Echidna would be, and would have been for a long time now, absolutely trivial had she not been deliberately taking advantage of his trust and willingness to asure her to keep it from him.

Not a Tattletale hater, but it is part of her character to be an over controlling piece of work who isn't half as smart as she thinks she is, even if she is legitimately very intelligent.

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Lisa thinks she was taken as a political hostage and doesn't care enough to look into it so she has no idea Dinah is the precog or that she's being drugged. I also wouldn't be too sure Echidna will be trivial to deal with because once again a perk was rolled that should have altered the timeline of tracking Bakuda's lab and once again it's impact on the timeline was denied or negated. Aside from the irritation it's getting increasingly worrying lord is planning something major with Butcher and March's scheme possibly even having Uber fully revive her in a feeble attempt to justify them getting to Noelle.

Am I misremembering? Pretty sure Truth is 600CP.

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Truth is one of the 6 currently available 800s 2 of which we actually came fairly close to rolling since they are also in knowledge.

Let's see which people are on the verge of triggering. Theo is the only canon person I remember that was on the verge of triggering. However that might have changed and there are probably not shortage of people on the verge of breaking in the aftermath.

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Parian would have second triggered if not for Survey and Tetra.

 

[TechBlade9000]

snip

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There's also the part where "Last time on Dragon Ball Z" is baked into story everytime a new perk comes because no one really wants to have to go back through like 15 chapters minimum to see how shit would interconnect ESPECIALLY where Lord has written in to explain perks beyond what the blurb says (like how Kamui weaving is also legally a piece of tech and weapon)

 

[BelligerentGnu]

And while it is still something Lisa should've told Joe about (because kidnapping children to be used as political trading cards is bad), she doesn't actually know that Dinah is drugged off her fucking rocker.

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That does alter things, but I still feel like 'there's a child being held captive that you could have saved by now' is something Lisa should be nervous of Joe's reaction to.

 

[NickXenix]

Finally, the big reveal for Joe's true power is now within my lifetime.

Also he didn't promise that he won't go on a cryo spree when he finds out.

 

[readerdreamer]

That does alter things, but I still feel like 'there's a child being held captive that you could have saved by now' is something Lisa should be nervous of Joe's reaction to.

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She brought it up in the whole "to be merciful, you have to be powerful" spiel she had in her last Interlude. Pretty much she's holding it back for the same reason she isn't telling him anything about what she knows of Coil - because she believes Joe will go rushing in as soon as he finds out, and if he gets Echidna'd that's game over for the planet (as far as she knows, anyway.)

Parian would have second triggered if not for Survey and Tetra.

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Not quite. She was very, very much reminded by her Trigger yes, but not enough for a Second Trigger. Remember, the last straw for Parian had been finding out that her father died. Unless her mom died during the charity show and she found out soon after she got herself chased out of the afterparty for accusing Joe, she wouldn't have been able to Second Trigger even without their help. She would've been much worse off without them, yes, but not Second Trigger levels.

 

[Narsauce]

There's also the part where "Last time on Dragon Ball Z" is baked into story everytime a new perk comes because no one really wants to have to go back through like 15 chapters minimum to see how shit would interconnect ESPECIALLY where Lord has written in to explain perks beyond what the blurb says (like how Kamui weaving is also legally a piece of tech and weapon)

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Yeah, the recap does help. Like, let's face it, without the occasional recaps, we would have all forgotten half the perks Joe actually has and how they all affect the shit he does. Side effect of the story having gone on for so long, I suppose, but it is true.

That does alter things, but I still feel like 'there's a child being held captive that you could have saved by now' is something Lisa should be nervous of Joe's reaction to.

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Like I said, it doesn't make Lisa not informing Joe of Dinah's status as a (presumed) political prisoner any better. Lisa is right to be nervous, but in her eyes, she's also right to be nervous of Echidna getting her… legs(?) on Joe and making a hundred evil Joes.

But yes, Joe's wrath upon Coil will be a legendary thing.

 

[ExploerTM]

Man, there would be NOTHING left of Lisa after Joe deals with Dinah and Noelle. I would say "Reduced to atoms" but that would imply that there were atoms left. She would be annihilated on conceptual level, retroactively erased out of existence. And I am here for it.

 

[RXIV]

designed to amplify divine divination to an insane degree.

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The level of adaptation did mean that the passenger space expedition needed to stay focused on information control and monitoring, which would slow down the search for Bakuda's hidden dimension, but with the signal subverted and the hostages safe that could be put on the backburner for half a day.

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You know, Pepperidge farm remembers a time when sentences like these would have warranted a blink.

Did Joe turn his little green minions into cyborgs?

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If I read correctly, the end goal is to induct them into the Adeptus Mechanicus.
I don't think I can really process how terrifyingly hilarious a perspective that could be.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

She brought it up in the whole "to be merciful, you have to be powerful" spiel she had in her last Interlude. Pretty much she's holding it back for the same reason she isn't telling him anything about what she knows of Coil - because she believes Joe will go rushing in as soon as he finds out, and if he gets Echidna'd that's game over for the planet (as far as she knows, anyway.)

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Like I said, it doesn't make Lisa not informing Joe of Dinah's status as a (presumed) political prisoner any better. Lisa is right to be nervous, but in her eyes, she's also right to be nervous of Echidna getting her… legs(?) on Joe and making a hundred evil Joes.

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I'm not confused about why she isn't telling Joe. I'm confused as to why Joe isn't picking up that Lisa is scared of his finding out about Dinah specifically. It feels like that would be a different flavour of nervous he would sense.

 

[Mesaphrom]

I'm confused as to why Joe isn't picking up that Lisa is scared of his finding out about Dinah specifically.

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I think the thing she is nervous about is more about him finding out about Equidna and saying "I can take her", only to then have mustachied Apeirons running around. Though him learning anything about Dinah would make him go into a warpath immediately.

Not a Tattletale hater, but it is part of her character to be an over controlling piece of work who isn't half as smart as she thinks she is, even if she is legitimately very intelligent.

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But I am! Seeing TT suffer gives me life! Lisa is Taylor's best friend? Wrong! Her best friend is Rachel (somehow), Lisa is just who she likes more! And I'm tired of it being denied!

Etc. Etc.

It isn't anything new for Lisa to put her entire leg into her mouth over trying to take control of a situation instead giving support with that smart brain of hers. Or asking people for help intead of manipulating a situation so they have no other choice.

Though AFAIK she doesn't know anything about Dinah yet. Sure, she suspects Coil had something to do with her dissapearance, directly or indirectly, but not that he have her drugged up in his basement with Dr. Disrespect so he can take advantage of her powers.

But then Garment was like: "You realize I was flirting with you from the start, right?"
And Joe is like "MHM ANYWAYS ABOUT FLECHETTE"

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A reminder that she used to just "undress" in front of him. She can't get more direct than that!

Though, as Aisha have said, he already gave her the keys to his home. Suck on that, Crystal! Garment already won the race!

SS IRONCLOTHES ALREADY LEFT PORT YEARS AGO!

(I do like Crystal though, hope shit doesn't hit the fan when she learns Joe=Ape)

 

[Narsauce]

Man, there would be NOTHING left of Lisa after Joe deals with Dinah and Noelle. I would say "Reduced to atoms" but that would imply that there were atoms left. She would be annihilated on conceptual level, retroactively erased out of existence. And I am here for it.

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I mean, Joe ain't gonna kill her, but disappointment from Joe is a damn harsh thing.

Joe: "No scanner for you."

Lisa: Soul fucking melts.

I'm not confused about why she isn't telling Joe. I'm confused as to why Joe isn't picking up that Lisa is scared of his finding out about Dinah specifically. It feels like that would be a different flavour of nervous he would sense.

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Ah, that's what you meant. Hmm. Honestly, I can't think of a solid answer for that one. It might be that Lisa is too heavily focused on the Noelle issue to even begin to care about the Dinah issue. Might also be that she thinks Joe would understand her not wanting him to bumrush a guy with all the contingencies and an S Class threat in waiting just to save one girl.

Honestly, I've got no idea.

 

[Nimeroni]

I hate these transition chapters where nothing really happens

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Nothing ? We touched on the situation in the city with Lisa's call ("AAAAHHHH, THERE'S AN OUT OF CONTEXT TITANIUM MONKEY WREAKING OUR PLANS") and on the current proposal to deal with Jack's brainwashing (megadeus).

There was some power explanation diluting the chapter, but that's to be expected with 600 CP perks, and at least super-reverse-engineering is a cool power.

Joe's anger at Lisa leaving a child to be stuck drugged up to the gills in a creeps basement, and specifically causing her to stay in that position because of her need to be in control, will be legendary I reckon.

Permanently working relationship tarnishing legendary. The only reason I think he's put up with so much is because his passenger likes her. Saving Dinah, ending Coil and even fixing Echidna would be, and would have been for a long time now, absolutely trivial had she not been deliberately taking advantage of his trust and willingness to asure her to keep it from him.

Not a Tattletale hater, but it is part of her character to be an over controlling piece of work who isn't half as smart as she thinks she is, even if she is legitimately very intelligent.

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No. The only reason Joe put up with Lisa is because he need to protect Taylor (due to her perceived importance for the end of the world). Joe will be pissed, but not end-of-collaboration pissed.

Additionally, you all forget that while Lisa knows Coil captured Dinah, she doesn't know it's for her power (and that he keep her drugged). As far as Lisa is concerned, Coil captured Dinah because she's the mayor niece.

Not quite. She was very, very much reminded by her Trigger yes, but not enough for a Second Trigger. Remember, the last straw for Parian had been finding out that her father died. Unless her mom died during the charity show and she found out soon after she got herself chased out of the afterparty for accusing Joe, she wouldn't have been able to Second Trigger even without their help. She would've been much worse off without them, yes, but not Second Trigger levels.

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Then it's a writing failure, because the chapter read like a 2nd trigger that got interrupted at the last second.

 

[ExploerTM]

I'm not confused about why she isn't telling Joe. I'm confused as to why Joe isn't picking up that Lisa is scared of his finding out about Dinah specifically. It feels like that would be a different flavour of nervous he would sense.

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Though AFAIK she doesn't know anything about Dinah yet. Sure, she suspects Coil had something to do with her dissapearance, directly or indirectly, but not that he have her drugged up in his basement with Dr. Disrespect so he can take advantage of her powers.

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Exactly that. She made the connection that bank job was a distraction and that Coil got his hands on Dinah BUT since she doesnt know Dinah is actually parahuman, she thinks Coil keeps her around as a tool to put pressure on Mayor later.

EDIT: Lethe'd

Then it's a writing failure, because the chapter read like a 2nd trigger that got interrupted at the last second.

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Ugh. I love this fic with all of my soul but I will be the first one to say that from writing perspective the entire Parian's arc (NOT Gala in general, JUST Parian's arc) is a disaster. Thats the first thing I count as a total miss on LordR's part. It left everyone on both sides of opinion about Parian dissatisfied and can be safely cut out without impacting plot much if at all.

 

[Tiz Goldeneye]

Am I misremembering? Pretty sure Truth is 600CP.

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In the new FMA jump it is, in the FMA jump the Forge uses it is 800.

Lisa thinks she was taken as a political hostage and doesn't care enough to look into it so she has no idea Dinah is the precog or that she's being drugged. I also wouldn't be too sure Echidna will be trivial to deal with because once again a perk was rolled that should have altered the timeline of tracking Bakuda's lab and once again it's impact on the timeline was denied or negated. Aside from the irritation it's getting increasingly worrying lord is planning something major with Butcher and March's scheme possibly even having Uber fully revive her in a feeble attempt to justify them getting to Noelle.

Truth is one of the 6 currently available 800s 2 of which we actually came fairly close to rolling since they are also in knowledge.

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I suspect the reason Joe's alien reverse engineering perks have stopped stacking in universe, is because out of universe even Lord can only write so many things a day. Like it would suck if Joe went, "Ok cool tracking Bakuda, so we will know where she is Friday morning" now the viewers expect him to find out about March, but whoops the S9 are attacking that day so now he can't attack Bakuda because in universe she is low priority, so the viewers don't get their pay off. This is why all projects in universe have been depriorotized over fighting Jack's shard for control of the network, because otherwise Joe is at a fast enough crafting speed and high enough tech level he would cause too many plot points to happen simultaneously.

I think this is also the reason the S9 keeps being delayed in universe due to stuff with curses, arguments, and random problems. If they were going to attack during their original timeframe Lord wouldn't be able to do any of his planned stuff for today regarding Joe learning Taylor's trigger, Brian's identity, healing the hostages etc. all long awaited plot points. So as a result things things in universe have coincidencely kept delaying the S9 until the 1 day a week Joe isn't busy (since if they were even a day later his schedule would be packed again). In universe this is probably Joe's luck powers, but out of universe this is Lord spacing events out for the readers.