- Pronouns
- Male
Her shard is a fresh bud so it is very weak as far as powers go. It wouldn't be able to do the necessary precog effects to nulify its own damage by itself.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
- Location
- Unitied Kingdom
...Let me reiterate a point in my post that you might have skimmed over. Specifically, that there is more than the logic of the situation at play.
Even if the provided handwave explanation holds, even if Wildbow's explanation remains cohesive and logical in-universe- The drive for people to write Vicky's power in a more complex and messy manner remains, because it creates more opportunities for storytelling than the canon explanation.
Wildbow's explanation, while sufficient for the story he wanted to tell, also killed off possible storylines that, hey- some people decided they wanted to see as well. For people who want to see those possibilities resurrected, Vicky's power operating not strictly as the Wildbow wrote is the price of admission.
Yes, I can suspend my disbelief and accept Wildbow's explanation. But, I am also open to stories being told that want to utilize the possibilities created by Vicky's power having a messy emotional manipulation aspect.
These are two different stories being told, they can have mutually exclusive explanations, even if one is a fanfic of the other. The important part is that the stories remain internally consistent.
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No other shard had ever been seen doing a sort of staff like preventing long-term psychological emotional effects of its own power, so yeah I doubt that it makes sense that Fragile One, one of the weakest shards, is the one to do it. Plus, even if it could, why would it. It's against Shard's goals to prevent effects of its own power that could give it more data, why would the weakest one use its limited power to go against its own goal. And, Fragile One cares about Vicky, so it will not try to prevent any part of its power from helping her, it would make more sense for the shard to give her all possible benefits, long-term included.
So, it doesn't have established precedent, it goes against what Shards are, and it doesn't makes sense from Fragile One's character standpoint. I find it hard to buy, can you blame me? Well, you can, but can anyone reasonably blame me. Yes, I'm still angry from that "turn your brain off" argument.
- Location
- 𐌂 ̢͎̩̤̲̙͓̑̀͂͒̀͆̏𐋏 ̛͏̫̚𐌀 ̛͉̥̩̤̰͈̂̅͒͊͟𐍈 ̣͛𐍃 ̡̅̈́
You will be going in circles in this discussion. What author of this fic told about this specific piece of original story and how they wanted to interept it? Were they going to treat this piece of setting as in original story or changed something, or add some intricacies? What do we know for sure and how many things are we just assuming?
Edit: Because this situation doesn't have just two possible answers, but has two extreme cases. And truth can lie between them easily. So is it discussion in search for truth or just game of 'who convinces people better'? I like a bit of chaos, but these kinds of circles become bothersome at some point. 😅
Edit: Because this situation doesn't have just two possible answers, but has two extreme cases. And truth can lie between them easily. So is it discussion in search for truth or just game of 'who convinces people better'? I like a bit of chaos, but these kinds of circles become bothersome at some point. 😅
Edit 2: Ok, I found piece of WoG, which can be useful to prevent this situation to go infinite or aflame.
First off, I'm not making excuses for anything. What happened to Vicky in Worm was horrendous. Understanding contributing factors towards Amy's actions in no way excuses them or lessens the impact they had. That is actually close enough to one of the main themes of this story that I felt I needed to state it outright. With respect to the 'Aura Theory', I am not subscribing to it. The passenger is fully onboard, but that is because it is pretty much a staple of Worm fanon, and that is what the passenger represents. The disconnect between fan interpretations of events and reality is something Joe struggles with when dealing with his passenger. While I'm not subscribing to the idea that Amy was mind controlled I think it would be equally foolish to pretend that Glory Girl's aura had no impact. Regular emotion shifts when exposed to someone will have lasting effects on a brain. Wildbow clearly knew about this effect since there were two other characters (Cherish and Peral) who used it as part of their powerset. |
The only way for it not to permanently impact someone is if there is some safety measure that negates any long-term effect. That was the stance that Ward took, and frankly it is nonsense. Glory Girl's shard does not have the resources or experience to moderate a power like that. It would be an incredibly complex operation to induce emotions while also preventing any form or conditioned response and or the creation of favorable memories of the experience. That is a level of mental control that exceeds the best masters in the series, and the idea that a barely functional shard was able to manage it doesn't make sense. Amy's problems stem from a significant number of sources. Her relationship with Carol, her self-image, her feelings of obligation, her relative isolation, and her lack of positive influences in her life. I'm not taking the fanon view of Amy working herself to death, but she clearly drives herself hard. Even without the aura Amy would have developed a dependent relationship with Vicky as the only consistently positive part of her life. With her brain being consistently altered at the same time there is no reasonable way to say it had no impact on the situation. I also want to say that I am not blaming Vicky for this. Through the story this issue is anything but clear. This is a sensitive topic and if the fact that this element of Worm is going to be explored makes you uncomfortable then I understand if you want to drop the story, and thank you for giving it a chance. |
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It's like, readers can easily accept healing powers healing major injuries and kyptonite poisoning or whatever, but show that same superhero healing aids and they go, "Whoa, that's kinda... something, insensitive?"
It doesn't feel the same. It gets too real.
Same with emotion-manipulation powers. Get goons to fight one another, that's a-okay. Use emotion-manipulation powers to erase the trauma of rape, not okay.
Thing is, we can put ourselves in the place of Amy. She's stuck in a shitty place. We can imagine our emotions being a rollercoaster. We all went through puberty. Having that state being imposed on us would be a violation, and we have difficulty handwaving away the consequences of violation.
We're okay with super-science because we're used to science evolving fast and only a small percentage of people really understand science anyway, but we're not okay with easy solutions to fundamentally human experiences.
[edit] Or rather, intractable human experiences.
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I've covered this before, but basically…
Okay, the first thing you're overlooking is that you keep saying "effect", but you seem to be trying to use it to mean "affect". "Affect" is how it does something, but "effect" is the end result of what it does.
Like in A Certain Scientific Railgun, there are lots of people whose powers include a Mind Reading effect. However, the affect that causes this ability can vary — it's usually an electricity-based power, but there are at least two examples where it's a water-based power.
PRT classifications are engagement guidelines, so they deal with the Outcome, not the Cause. How Glory Girl's power works is irrelevant, only what it does as a result.
The second thing is… basic psychology. Operand Conditioning — like Pavlov's dog. The fact that her aura affects people when she is present, causes them to associate the resulting sensation with her presence. Conditioning… and the same basic principle behind various addictions. Eliminating that impact means basically mind-controlling people to somehow ignore the effects of her Aura when they are not under it, even when reviewing memories of being under it.
In other words: the only way for her aura not to be causing a Master Effect is for her to instead be causing a different Master Effect to cancel it out.
By contrast, Superman could just be using his telekinesis to form a Bussemann Biplane–type effect around him, to cancel out the sonic boom and prevent damage in a way that lets everything except him continue to line up with regular science.
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Who says it couldn't do that? Let me remind you that her Shard created a forcefield that can tank Scion's Stilling. Yes, it pops after getting hit for a few seconds or so, but it can still tank that.
But even ignoring what I just said, you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how shards work. Vicky's shard is connected to the network, it is a live shard, so it can ask for information/data and help from all other shards connected to the network.
Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The shard probably could, with a separate effect, fix any conditioning caused by the aura. However, NO EVIDENCE OF SUCH A POST-AURA-EXPOSURE EFFECT EXISTS.
Plus the arguments of "it isn't in line with the goals of Shards as a whole or Fragile One in particular" and "Fragile One explicitly is small and underpowered, with her shield being a new trick she figured out to shunt damage"
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Except it's straight up stated in Ward and in WOG that Vicky's aura doesn't cause long term effects. It also wasn't stated that it did cause long term effects in Worm. So obviously something's going on.
I actually really like the aura theory btw, I really do, my problem is that Fanon treats it as canon when both text and WOG state otherwise, and only because fans have a completely different idea of Amy as a character then what she actually is in canon.
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Cave_Canem
Miniature Cyberwolf
People have already linked you the OP's WOG on this. The argument is irrelevant, because the wild bow wog you quoted is not being followed in this story.
Ugh
look man the author already explained how glory girls powers work in this fanfic and quite frankly you can write all day wildbow said this shard do this bullshit I am sorry man but majority of us on this story already accepted that glory girls aura affects brains so let's not get into a argument that will go nowhere
RogerDodger123
look man the author already explained how glory girls powers work in this fanfic and quite frankly you can write all day wildbow said this shard do this bullshit I am sorry man but majority of us on this story already accepted that glory girls aura affects brains so let's not get into a argument that will go nowhereSure. I'm really not trying to argue here, I'm genuinely enjoying peoples responses to my comments.
Don't worry about it, you didn't come across as too aggressive. I won't comment and/or respond to anything about Glory Girl's aura from now on.
Finbar
Generic Minion #314
- Location
- Sydney
I love this fic, I love almost everything about it, but I am really getting Wheel of Time vibes here.
So I am very happy that finally, something is going to happen. I mean, yes, the date with crystal was awesome. But with so many descriptions, and thought and such, the plot is moving at a glacial pace.
So I am very happy that finally, something is going to happen. I mean, yes, the date with crystal was awesome. But with so many descriptions, and thought and such, the plot is moving at a glacial pace.
I think I get your point, but I personally disagree with it.
* From my impression, the traffic scene is more of a scenaristic hook to have a non-powered humain look at the recovering state of the city, to discuss the Dallon situation, and the upcoming nanite delivery (I am sure nothing bad will happen when Joe will contact Panacea AGAIN to provide uncertified healing... or when Panacea encounter Joe in a civilian situation when meeting her cousin's boyfriend...).
And many other plot points were introduced in this chapter: a potential issue with the Duplicates and temporal interaction was underlined, we now have new team costumes that are probably S-rank by themselves (what could go wrong?), and the hook into Armstrong conversation etc
* So, my point is that a lot of things are still happening. Most of them are planning and talking, but this is actually the best approach that Joe could take (instead of blazing into every situation in power armor to kick everyone collective asses).
Even the next "fight scene" planned (the S9 situation) will probably not be much of a fight.
Joe and Survey are not taking chances, and looking at the amount of power disparity, the actual fight will probably be more of an "Apeiron push a button, and the S9 are all dead 5ms later". The interesting part will probably be more about the "cleaning Broadcast influence" (who might react by breaking even more rules) and the nationwide fallout from Apeiron's action.
This is not a typical Worm fanfic, in which the fight scenes and crazy clutch situations are often their main focus.
"Taylor Varga" is indeed following a similar approach (overpowered protagonist which tries to fix things very carefully with minimal causality, thus lots of PR management).
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- Location
- Philippines
I think the main issue is, so many things get introduced, so many plot points being juggled...and it takes literal years to start making a dent in that list.
The progression is so ice age, and it's not helped that Lord keeps adding in more things to juggle that only delays the resolution or progress on prior plot points.
Essentially, it's not that nothing's happening. It's the opposite. Too many things are happening, and all at the same time and Lord wants to cover it all in way too much depth, so that everything grinds to a snail's pace because everything is happening all at once while Lord puts every situation and interaction under a proverbial microscope to analyze and take note of even the smallest details to elaborate on it.
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- Location
- Germany
I must agree, too much naval gazing this chapter.
Though we get a look at Apeiron Endgame: become an Entity himself, except, well, better.
Also, the Duplicates are Meeseeks confirmed 😄
Though we get a look at Apeiron Endgame: become an Entity himself, except, well, better.
Also, the Duplicates are Meeseeks confirmed 😄
Does this work on Aisha's nanobots while she is in the workshop?
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I felt this way too at first, but I've come around. Think of it as "I can't really kill the Simurgh unless I disarm all of her bombs." And disarming Jack's bombs means letting the world experience the dissonance that happens in their head when one second, they're like "Jack is a terrible, terrible threat looming in the dark like a lovecraftian horror" and the next they're thinking, "why have we killed the dumbass knife guy already?"
Ho boy bank of 500 next roll for 700 going into this Joe better hope he gets a big roll while on the phone or on the way as there aren't many point depleting ones left that aren't hugely significant iirc the only 300s are the last skill/blessing combo and spectre which lord said in wog will have a big effect and I don't think there's any 400s left.
Basically Aura theory came about because of Cherish because in her interlude she states that her power doesn't have long term effects on it's own but it doesn't need them because alter someone's emotions in responce to the same stimulus enough and basic conditioning and the pavlov will take over. Significantly very close to that Vicky's aura was described in the same way tho without that conclusion which made people go it's the same type of stand as star platinum. Considering Vicky's bud is the fragile one with barely any resources and being brand new it makes sense that would happen.
It was Vicky was going to have her make it but the fandom bullied wildbow into changing it tho he was really salty about it which shows in the epilogues and his wog they'll all die anyway because the network will collapse and kill them all.
That seems extremely unfair and disingenuous because it's not like they've been doing an 8 hr cruise just that they were roughly that far away for the modern conditions but they'd be slower accounting for factors like stealth, them being in a big van, being indirect and the area being messed up by the mega emp. Heck there was an entire in story day where they barely advanced at all because they spent so long messing around with people.
If anything the problem also isn't nothing happening it's that too much happens because there are so many side plots even with the car journey there stuff still did happen as they talked and explored what's happening with new wave, the nanites, healing the abb victims and other such things.
Basically Aura theory came about because of Cherish because in her interlude she states that her power doesn't have long term effects on it's own but it doesn't need them because alter someone's emotions in responce to the same stimulus enough and basic conditioning and the pavlov will take over. Significantly very close to that Vicky's aura was described in the same way tho without that conclusion which made people go it's the same type of stand as star platinum. Considering Vicky's bud is the fragile one with barely any resources and being brand new it makes sense that would happen.
It was Vicky was going to have her make it but the fandom bullied wildbow into changing it tho he was really salty about it which shows in the epilogues and his wog they'll all die anyway because the network will collapse and kill them all.
That seems extremely unfair and disingenuous because it's not like they've been doing an 8 hr cruise just that they were roughly that far away for the modern conditions but they'd be slower accounting for factors like stealth, them being in a big van, being indirect and the area being messed up by the mega emp. Heck there was an entire in story day where they barely advanced at all because they spent so long messing around with people.
If anything the problem also isn't nothing happening it's that too much happens because there are so many side plots even with the car journey there stuff still did happen as they talked and explored what's happening with new wave, the nanites, healing the abb victims and other such things.
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- Location
- Elsewhere
They aren't treating it like scheduled entertainment.
They're treating it like a movie that was adapted from a cancelled stage-play, and put off due to numerous production delays.
"Vengeance isn't the answer! Look at you! You're lashing out indiscriminately at everyone around you!"
"..."
Information == Manipulation.
Even if there is no specific goal, giving someone information changes their perception unless they ignore it entirely.
And they can't ignore The Enigmatic Artificer.
"Eldritch Rangers Ready! We need to combine to make Chthulu-zord!"
*Reality shatters*
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- Location
- Georgia
You do realize in order to stop the negative long term affects the Vickie's aura would have to be a far stronger master power then it already is? Far more wide reaching and long term.
Also love how people are shilling wildbow a writing at this point when it's been a Vapid point for years how bad his writing is and the fact he stole several of his main characters/antagonists from other series.
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