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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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AntaeusTheGiant said:
Ahh, but there is that whole contract thing. The S9 all have kill orders. That amounts to a pre-approved contract with anyone to kill the S9 or any member of it at any time. Isn't that how kill orders work? Isn't that something Mercenary capes traditionally do to make money?
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Technically yes, they would work like that, but I also be the feeling that Joe wants to maintain an image of "People come to me to ask for contracts," not "I do whatever contracts are available at the time."

If he had, say, the Mayor or someone, give him a direct contract to off the S9 so that he had a fallback option to justify his actions, it wouldn't be a problem, but as it stands Joe wants to maintain the current narrative that most thinkers, save Tattletale, believe.

That he will only act under contract or when provoked.

So while technically true that kill orders are pre approved, government sanctioned contracts, they are also general contracts, not ones specifically tailored to Apeiron. Meaning that, if Joe were to run off and unalive the Slaughteredhouse None, it would be wildly out of what the world considers to be Apeiron's modus operandi.
 
Apeiron has an excuse though. These are the S9, they don't exactly have active media accounts and Q&As so they can't exactly confirm they've never interacted with him before. For all anyone else knows he has a personal vendetta from the past against them, and given it's the S9 I don't think it'd be hard to believe they did something he considers bad enough that he'll go against his code for payback.

Also, it hasn't been that long in-story. People aren't going to surprised if it turns out he'll accept general contracts if the reward is high enough and he wants to
 
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AGiantB said:
Apeiron has an excuse though. These are the S9, they don't exactly have active media accounts and Q&As so they can't exactly confirm they've never interacted with him before. For all anyone else knows he has a personal vendetta from the past against them, and given it's the S9 I don't think it'd be hard to believe they did something he considers bad enough that he'll go against his code for payback.
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Well if Joe ever attempts to build narrative that he is not a recent trigger it might help. However all major players at this point know that he IS a fresh trigger so it would be a waste of time just to troll PHO.

AGiantB said:
Also, it hasn't been that long in-story. People aren't going to surprised if it turns out he'll accept general contracts if the reward is high enough and he wants to
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Giving what Apeiron throws around I suspect people will call bullshit on this (which is ironic considering Joe somewhat actually hardpressed for cash lol)
 
ExploerTM said:
(which is ironic considering Joe somewhat actually hardpressed for cash lol)
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Joe is hardpressed for cash on his civilian account. His cape account could just transmut some gold or sell an item like the Persephone rainbow.

Joe have a bit of a cash flow problem because he left his job a few days ago. But it's alright, he just got a nice jig for that new cape, Garment. She need help with a kind of charity auction in the next few days, and he proved he was good as a handyman when he helped the gym where Garment made her debut.

It's really nice of Garment to let her room-mate mooch money help a poor man who isn't secretly the most sought after cape in the city. :whistle:
 
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Knaka said:
-This was clarified on AO3, but LordR mentioned that Joe doesn't plan to let the S9 take any meaningful action in the city. Once they arrive, Joe can safely counter them.
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I know "it's only Hubris if you fail", but there is also such a thing as taunting Murphy!

Joe is lucky he has the author in his pocket ready to have reality bend backwards for his stupid plans...
 
Ayashi said:
I know "it's only Hubris if you fail", but there is also such a thing as taunting Murphy!

Joe is lucky he has the author in his pocket ready to have reality bend backwards for his stupid plans...
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Ah yes, waiting till overconfident enemy like a moron steps into carefully laid trap with dozen people lying in ambush while cutting off any and all escape paths is a stupid plan.

Tactical ans strategic genius of this thread keeps growing each hour I swear.


Also, "Murphy working EVERY TIME but ONLY if you a good guy" is the stupidest and most annoying cliché in all fiction
 
Knaka said:
The alternative would be to allow the S9 to come to him, in which case there would be damage, but he would have the plausible excuse that the S9 attacked him, or at least was about to. That fits with the current model of Aperion that others have, that he won't take action unless provoked.
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AntaeusTheGiant said:
Ahh, but there is that whole contract thing. The S9 all have kill orders. That amounts to a pre-approved contract with anyone to kill the S9 or any member of it at any time. Isn't that how kill orders work? Isn't that something Mercenary capes traditionally do to make money?
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AGiantB said:
Apeiron has an excuse though. These are the S9, they don't exactly have active media accounts and Q&As so they can't exactly confirm they've never interacted with him before. For all anyone else knows he has a personal vendetta from the past against them, and given it's the S9 I don't think it'd be hard to believe they did something he considers bad enough that he'll go against his code for payback.
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He doesn't really need a specific excuse. For part of the S9, the kill orders are in recognition of how their powers work, where the killing is assumed to be self-defense. For example, simply having Shatterbird sing within a mile of you, or Jack holding a knife where you can see him, is a death threat. A tinker's only reasonable defense might well be to kill Shatterbird before all his tech breaks.

Unless Apeiron intends to release detailed recordings, he does not need any pretext to tie the S9 ambush to his existing agreements. He simply says that they had started interfering with the city's reconstruction and everyone will take his word for it.
 
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Graviator said:
He doesn't really need a specific excuse. For part of the S9, the kill orders are in recognition of how their powers work, where the killing is assumed to be self-defense. For example, simply having Shatterbird sing within a mile of you, or Jack holding a knife where you can see him, is a death threat. A tinker's only reasonable defense might well be to kill Shatterbird before all his tech breaks.

Unless Apeiron intends to release detailed recordings, he does not need any pretext to tie the S9 ambush to his existing agreements. He simply says that they had started interfering with the city's reconstruction and everyone will take his word for it.
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I meant people could just assume that, not that Apeiron would say anything, and that since the S9 don't have a confirmed presence like some other capes might they couldn't attempt to correct these claims if they wanted to or knew of them (assuming that the elimination of the S9 happens over the course of several days to prevent them teaming up, or if they have some random Bonesaw back up (not reinforcements) like they apparently did in Worm
 
....
I am looking forward to how Aperion is going to make the S9 go from being biology to physics.
Very energetic physics!
 
A question: could Apeiron hybridize a Tengu made from Lung with one made from Crawler and the one that will become Tetra? And if so how scary would it become?
The traits that would be most important would be the costant growth of Lung, the adaptability of Crawler and the everything of Tetra, all of it at an extremely high quality.
What do you think Tetra's new body would be like?
 
White_Chaos said:
A question: could Apeiron hybridize a Tengu made from Lung with one made from Crawler and the one that will become Tetra? And if so how scary would it become?
The traits that would be most important would be the costant growth of Lung, the adaptability of Crawler and the everything of Tetra, all of it at an extremely high quality.
What do you think Tetra's new body would be like?
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He probably could, but I doubt he would since Tetra's sapient and since Tengu have that whole spiritual aspect it would most likely affect her personality in some way
 
Joe ambushing and killing the s9 would be perfectly understandable, have no legal problems because of kill orders, and everyone would rejoice. It will still cause panic though, because aperion is suddenly going from passively reacting, even his contracts so far have been reactive rescues, and to actively locating and destroying threats.

The moment he does a first strike, everyone else with any power is gonna worry that they are on his list, and since his logic and rational for actions is totally opaque no one will be able to calm thr worry down.

It is completly a PR issue and no amount of post-hoc justification will fix it, because it creates the possibility that aperion might just decide to blap you, and no one is really safe from an out-of-the-blue first strike from aperion.
 
Huh, the S9 coming in before Leviathan (or whichever EB decides to attack in a few more weeks)?

I'll be honest, I really want to see something completely insane. Something like Tybalt breaking the Siberian's arms and legs even though it is a projection, just shattering them conceptually so that even if Manton resummoned it the projection would still be crippled.

Just something to give Jackie boy an idea of just how badly he fucked up before the end.
 
dracklor said:
Huh, the S9 coming in before Leviathan (or whichever EB decides to attack in a few more weeks)?

I'll be honest, I really want to see something completely insane. Something like Tybalt breaking the Siberian's arms and legs even though it is a projection, just shattering them conceptually so that even if Manton resummoned it the projection would still be crippled.

Just something to give Jackie boy an idea of just how badly he fucked up before the end.
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As fun as it would be I am fairly sure general idea is to annihilate them before they can even realise how fucked they are
 
AntaeusTheGiant said:
Is this truly how most people feel? It is completely alien to everything I have experienced or believed in my entire life. I had thought I was beyond being disillusioned at my age. I always assumed such people were aberrations and not "most people".
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It is not, its the whole white page with red point on it, everyone focused on the point to the point (heh...) of saying that the page was used when the 90% or more is perfectly usable, in this case this minority of not so good people is considered "common" because their acts are more noticeable, and part of the good people dont do things because they are afraid of the bad ones, so basically? Most people are not and the rest are part of the concerned/afraid group or just plain good in public.
Slentoru said:
Now, can Joe develop another magic detector, with better range? Probably. Will it be better or even on par with Analysis scanners? Nah. Nothing beats fiat. It just works.
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Well wasn't he able to upgrade anything at all with another fiat perk? And even if those were magical in nature wouldnt Mega Bomb from Chrono Trigger allowed him to use other technological perks on the analisys tech?
 
I was just thinking isn't the gate of truth basically the root in the nasu verse? It's basically the root of all knowledge. So I don't think it will actually happen but one of the ways to get a True Magic is to get to the root and then leave or turn back. I wonder which one joe would get?
 
Iridesce said:
I was just thinking isn't the gate of truth basically the root in the nasu verse? It's basically the root of all knowledge. So I don't think it will actually happen but one of the ways to get a True Magic is to get to the root and then leave or turn back. I wonder which one joe would get?
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Probably the first. Denial of nothingness, the ability to say no, this thing DOES, infact, exist and reality going "sure, whatever you say man". It is basically creating something ex nihilo by denying the fact that it does not exist. Would fit the forge well in the resource constellation. It would not be all that broken as certain crafting perks would not trigger as it would not count as being made by hand, on top of being 1000 points(same as the kaleidoscope is in the fate doc), but literally infinite anything as long as you understand what you want to deny the nonexistence of is pretty good for throwaway gear mid battle.
 
Iridesce said:
I was just thinking isn't the gate of truth basically the root in the nasu verse? It's basically the root of all knowledge. So I don't think it will actually happen but one of the ways to get a True Magic is to get to the root and then leave or turn back. I wonder which one joe would get?
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Those are not from the same universe, so by default Truth and the Root are not the same entity (unless Lord decide so).
 
Fits Dreia said:
It is not, its the whole white page with red point on it, everyone focused on the point to the point (heh...) of saying that the page was used when the 90% or more is perfectly usable, in this case this minority of not so good people is considered "common" because their acts are more noticeable, and part of the good people dont do things because they are afraid of the bad ones, so basically? Most people are not and the rest are part of the concerned/afraid group or just plain good in public.
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While I think it's true to say that the hardline of 'most people hardly care at all about people they don't know personally' is inaccurate, I think it is also true that although most people do have some degree of care for strangers, it isn't that much. I remember seeing a fairly recent poll on Reddit which had thousands of respondents, and there were a bunch of options, but there two most chosen ones were 'you lose a limb' and '10,000 random strangers die instantly, with the latter being the more popular of those two (although accounting for the other options I think it was a large minority rather than a majority).

Now obviously that's just a poll on Reddit, but I do think that it is still a good demonstration of people's regard for strangers. There's definitely better evidence than a poll like that, but I just thought that it's pretty interesting and gets my point across.
 
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