Actually, they would get some stuff from the Forge, because some of the stuff that the Forge gave Joe was just memories, which Noelle can definitely copy. It's moot, though, since between airtight armour, teleportation, extremely powerful pyrokinesis and his new cyborg body (plus probably some stuff I'm forgetting) there is no way that Noelle will clone him.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
Or just ask Lisa if she remembers he can make super-drones
- Location
- Miami
Ah, right. They would get Joe at that moment, and his original shard. No CF powers, but memories granted could still be there.
- Pronouns
- He, his, him, they
We have a new topic over at the Blacksmithery! Come and join as in-universe citizens of BCF!
- Location
- Philippines
I would say it was a bonding moment, except it was only Lisa that got a locker into her guts.
Lisa: "Joe can't be reasonable. I have to manipulate him to agree to do nothing. Because if he did do something, he would most definitely screw up, only I can deal with this situation properly."
Joe: *Being reasonable and forces Lisa to cooperate*
Lisa: "HOORAY, I DID THE THING"
Joe: *Being reasonable and forces Lisa to cooperate*
Lisa: "HOORAY, I DID THE THING"
I feel a "B-Baka!" would have been appropriate here.
It took two people with social thinker powers to manage it, but they did in fact talk it out in Worm.
I don't get why Lisa directly jumps to evil Survey or evil Aperion when she thinks of confrontation with Noelle or Coil, she knows of Joe's fight with Dragon over the web and knows how powerful just her sensors are which he doesn't even care about anymore and knows Noelle needs direct access to clone someone, she could have just said don't confront Coil directly but any distant analysis will be helpful.
Because at the end of the day Lisa is not as smart as she thinks she is and has massive trust issues with a dash of a superiority complex, paranoia, and complexity addiction? That's pretty much the same as her canon worm character. She has issues.
- Pronouns
- Masculine
What a deliciously satisfying chapter.
I am always loving good Lisa characterization, and this was excellent. Both showing the arrogance from her own power and actually allowing the Negotiator to do its job.
Meanwhile Negotiator is trying to parse all the [DATA] itself and just hitting brick walls of its own. I imagine it is having its own headaches in Shard Space.
Still, Joe handled this extremely well, and is doing so with care and concern for Lisa. Because he recognizes her situation and how utterly dangerous it is, and how it has made her feel. His skills at psychology alone will recognize how much mental trauma she has over this with being forcibly recruited by Coil and so on.
God I can't wait for Lisa to just be walked behind the curtain with the rest of the Undersiders. At some point, likely after Leviathan, Joe will probably just bring them all in. Because once Aisha is revealed, once things are situated and the threats are nailed down? Oh yes... the insanity will only grow.
Still, Lisa needs to talk to Survey and they need to become best friends. She needs to realize that Joe is a weapon in her arsenal. Because he is on her side. And is GOING to help her. And when the horror show of Coil is dealt with... the world of Joe's power is going to open up to her.
Especially as Joe probably realizes the best way to help Taylor is to put her in a training simulator for 'Battle Tactics' 'Restraint to threat' and 'common sense'.
Brian's crushing realization that Aisha is Lethe and She Doesn't Need Him Anymore is going to be amazing. Alec will actually have friends and the ability to save everyone his Father ever hurt. Bitch will get all the dogs. And all the capability to deal with the dogs. And to be the dog with the animal transformation.
Lisa will be happy in her nest of knowledge and friendship.
And Taylor will be able to be the heroine she has always wanted to be.
Joe has, at least, by his very presence... ensured the Bad Ends most of them got will never be. And that is hope inducing.
I am always loving good Lisa characterization, and this was excellent. Both showing the arrogance from her own power and actually allowing the Negotiator to do its job.
Meanwhile Negotiator is trying to parse all the [DATA] itself and just hitting brick walls of its own. I imagine it is having its own headaches in Shard Space.
Still, Joe handled this extremely well, and is doing so with care and concern for Lisa. Because he recognizes her situation and how utterly dangerous it is, and how it has made her feel. His skills at psychology alone will recognize how much mental trauma she has over this with being forcibly recruited by Coil and so on.
God I can't wait for Lisa to just be walked behind the curtain with the rest of the Undersiders. At some point, likely after Leviathan, Joe will probably just bring them all in. Because once Aisha is revealed, once things are situated and the threats are nailed down? Oh yes... the insanity will only grow.
Still, Lisa needs to talk to Survey and they need to become best friends. She needs to realize that Joe is a weapon in her arsenal. Because he is on her side. And is GOING to help her. And when the horror show of Coil is dealt with... the world of Joe's power is going to open up to her.
Especially as Joe probably realizes the best way to help Taylor is to put her in a training simulator for 'Battle Tactics' 'Restraint to threat' and 'common sense'.
Brian's crushing realization that Aisha is Lethe and She Doesn't Need Him Anymore is going to be amazing. Alec will actually have friends and the ability to save everyone his Father ever hurt. Bitch will get all the dogs. And all the capability to deal with the dogs. And to be the dog with the animal transformation.
Lisa will be happy in her nest of knowledge and friendship.
And Taylor will be able to be the heroine she has always wanted to be.
Joe has, at least, by his very presence... ensured the Bad Ends most of them got will never be. And that is hope inducing.
Barbaric Bob
The Barbaric One
- Location
- Soon to be plundering a village near you
I know right?
With Apeiron tech punching eachother in the face is feasible over a phone call! I feel robbed of my comicbook tropes of punch first ask questions after everything's on fire
- Location
- Somewhere in The Woods
The coins jangle and moan, the water screams for mercy as you drink.
The lamps judge and the cobbles curse.
Your undergarments rebel.
The Sea of Voices is not silent thanks to a gem-shard shorn from the body of Sun's Daughter and put in the King Who Became A City.
South has Life not permitted by the Judgments.
West is Hell, be wary.
East is an endless Horizon
Do not open the gate in the North without due consideration.
The light at the edge of sleep once belonged to him.
His name was Mr Candles.
He will not be again.
A reckoning is not to be postponed indefinitely.
The most important things to Noelle not cloning Joe are the old wog it's so unlikely to happen it's basically impossible and not worth talking about, The cyborg body that per wog Amy's noble lv shard couldn't make heads or tails of and so couldn't copy. Finally the absolute most important Weld's selective manton limit ability has been copied and worked into the bodies of Fleet, Survey and Matrix per wog this is a standard thing like bone steel that gets worked into all his things as standard and so doesn't get mentioned every time.
This is important because in canon Weld is very important in that fight as he can touch Echidna without being cloned or absorbed due to this property and remember the cyborg body has already undergone one brief round of upgrades with more scheduled so Joe will get it very soon if he doesn't already have it which he is very likely to.
- Location
- spain
Yeah ok just say you're a bitch and get on with it.
Like man. I get that she's seventeen or whatever. But she keeps pressing. All. Of my buttons. The smug "I know better than anyone" attitude is bad enough, but then she starts whining about how she can't talk about Noelle to Joe because he might?? Do something??? Bitch what? So it's better that he go unaware?
Look, I like kind characters. I especially respect those who keep being kind, despite having been burned. Being kind is a choice. But I even respect those that own being assholes! They decide they won't care for the world? That's their prerogative. But I can't stand them going "woe is me, I would be kind, but I just can't!" Boo-hoo. Characters with such flimsy convictions are the worst.
She spends all this time thinking about how disastrous it would be for anyone in the Celestial Force to be captured, but then she won't tell them of the dangers?? And on top of that, it's not like she's doing it to save Brockton Bay or the world or whatever. She ain't Taylor. She's just a paranoid thinker with control issues, and she expects Joe to trust her when she doesn't trust Joe with his own damm self.
I'm not saying she's badly written, and I get that she's in a bad place, blah blah blah. But I don't care. At some point, people have to take responsibility for their actions.
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This chapter did a very good job at making me understand why Lisa is so worried. It also made her worries seem justified based on what she knows. I think it ended up casting her in a much more favorable light than previous Lisa interludes. We've seen Joe's mental journey from behind his eyes more or less so we can see that even with everything perks have changed the core of his personality is still intact just with added confidence and personal growth. Lisa doesn't have the benefit of that insight. And Joe isn't explaining things like his immunity to mind editing and precognition so she doesn't understand that Dinah is pretty much useless to Coil.
The sad thing is I don't see a path towards Lisa feeling comfortable. She has such a strong need for control, something I can definitely relate to, but her situation is just not going to give her that. That ship has definitively sailed and now she needs to find a new way to be okay. I hope I'm wrong and she can find one.
Replies to the thread:
Separately the WoG about Joe being copied has been confusing, sometimes there's references to his original powers other times there's references to his memories and his magical abilities (remember shard/magic equivalence) I think the more recent WoG is on the side of abilities that are actually present. Mental Fortress makes him immune to mind reading so that avenue is closed off leaving Joe's considerable magic based abilities as the risk if somehow all other countermeasures fail.
"Fleet and Survey are also working out details for stealth drone deployment. We're going to trial a batch tonight. Provided they don't raise any alarms, we can go for wider scale observation and searches."
Rolls Analysis:
Time (100): Time starts at 600
Knowledge (200): There was a 2/15 chance to either get more Star Trek Skills like last chapter or the Titanfall reverse engineering perk. Four Star Trek Skills remain: Weapons, Espionage, Communication and Piloting.
Capstone (300): 4/8 Capstone clusters were in play. Monstrous Strength massively enhances the already strong collection of Unnatural Skills, Divine Weapon would synergize with Joe's Cyborg body, Synchronicity Event would massively boost Feel it Out and have other implications besides, and Spectre massively increases the effectiveness of his Mass Effect related knowledge and abilities.
Magic (400): Another 1/3 chance at Synchronicity Event.
Resources and Durability (500): A 1/3 chance at the Armsthrift fiat ability that lets Joe make unbreakable weapons (and via use of duel purposes items and the Fashion fiat make himself unbreakable).
The sad thing is I don't see a path towards Lisa feeling comfortable. She has such a strong need for control, something I can definitely relate to, but her situation is just not going to give her that. That ship has definitively sailed and now she needs to find a new way to be okay. I hope I'm wrong and she can find one.
Replies to the thread:
Survey and Fleet have had Weld's Manton based immunity to basically all shard powers incorporated into their bodies. Canonically this granted immunity to Noelle. I expect that Joe will find a way to upgrade his own body with the same.
Separately the WoG about Joe being copied has been confusing, sometimes there's references to his original powers other times there's references to his memories and his magical abilities (remember shard/magic equivalence) I think the more recent WoG is on the side of abilities that are actually present. Mental Fortress makes him immune to mind reading so that avenue is closed off leaving Joe's considerable magic based abilities as the risk if somehow all other countermeasures fail.
Coil asked her for help in dealing with them.
Which is why he's deploying small numbers of stealth drones to test the waters ahead of wider deployment. From the last non-interlude chapter:
"Fleet and Survey are also working out details for stealth drone deployment. We're going to trial a batch tonight. Provided they don't raise any alarms, we can go for wider scale observation and searches."
Rolls Analysis:
Time (100): Time starts at 600
Knowledge (200): There was a 2/15 chance to either get more Star Trek Skills like last chapter or the Titanfall reverse engineering perk. Four Star Trek Skills remain: Weapons, Espionage, Communication and Piloting.
Capstone (300): 4/8 Capstone clusters were in play. Monstrous Strength massively enhances the already strong collection of Unnatural Skills, Divine Weapon would synergize with Joe's Cyborg body, Synchronicity Event would massively boost Feel it Out and have other implications besides, and Spectre massively increases the effectiveness of his Mass Effect related knowledge and abilities.
Magic (400): Another 1/3 chance at Synchronicity Event.
Resources and Durability (500): A 1/3 chance at the Armsthrift fiat ability that lets Joe make unbreakable weapons (and via use of duel purposes items and the Fashion fiat make himself unbreakable).
Lisa Interlude 74.2 - This is fine meme (PinkShadowReader)
- Location
- Deep inside the sand
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Lisa Interlude 74.2 - This is fine meme.
This what I think represents Lisa quite well this chapter.
This what I think represents Lisa quite well this chapter.
We told you so! (Chronocidal)
Okay, that phone call was satisfying, after I spent the first half of the chapter wishing that I could reach through the screen, slap Lisa, and tell her to let go of her ego and control-freak tendencies before they got someone killed.
I love that everyone else is agreeing that Rachel's "just call/ask" policy is the best option. As such, have an Omake.
We told you so!
Lisa rolled her shoulders as she shut the door to the hideout behind her with a faint 'click', working out some of the stiffness from how tense she had been during the call with Joe. Fortunately, he had agreed to stand back, and let her take the lead on dealing with Coil.
As she trudged up the stairs, she could smell pizza — three flavours: margherita; pepperoni; anchovie and black olives. One sourdough, two normal base. Hand-made, not restaurant. Excellent quality. Still warm, her power supplied — and heard the screeching and roaring of Alec's latest purchase, a new racing game for their games console. From the sound of the voices, it seemed he was playing with Brian, and… someone else?
She scrambled up the last few steps, and burst into the room, grabbing her concealed pistol.
"Oh, hey Tats," Alec called over his shoulder, in his usual irreverent style. "Me and Brian needed a third, and we figured he would be good at the game." At the word 'he', Alec nodded his head sideways at the third player on the couch.
"Greetings, Tattletale," said Fleet, still looking at the screen, as he clipped a curb, flipped his vehicle over an obstacle, and landed flawlessly to take the lead.
"Bullshit! I call bullshit! There's no way that's possible, right Brian?"
"I achieved it, so clearly it is indeed possible. I believe the correct response here is 'Git Good, n00b'."
"He's got you there Alec." Brian set his own controller down as the race ended, and twisted around to face Lisa. "Alec suggested it, and I agreed. Since we've worked closer with Joe than anyone else, we wanted to get to know his team better. So, we phoned them up, and asked if they wanted to hang out. Fleet agreed —"
"Still wish he'd brought his sister!" Alec leered, and Brian grimaced briefly at the interruption.
"Survey," he explained at Lisa's visible incomprehension. "As I was saying, Fleet agreed to come over, play some games, tell us a bit about himself and his teammates, and brought some food. Pizza?" He grabbed a box off the table, and held it awkwardly over his shoulder for her to take a slice. Her power was right, she decided after a bite. Excellent quality indeed.
Mind whirling, Lisa decided she should probably leave any more questions until the morning. As she headed off to her room, Fleet called out to her once more.
"Tattletale. Apologies for the presumption, but I have taken the liberty of correcting your signage. Do not feel bad about missing her on Sunday."
Frowning, she turned to the wall with her notes on, only to faint in shock.
'THE CELESTIAL FORGE HASSEVEN EIGHT MEMBERS.'
I love that everyone else is agreeing that Rachel's "just call/ask" policy is the best option. As such, have an Omake.
We told you so!
Lisa rolled her shoulders as she shut the door to the hideout behind her with a faint 'click', working out some of the stiffness from how tense she had been during the call with Joe. Fortunately, he had agreed to stand back, and let her take the lead on dealing with Coil.
As she trudged up the stairs, she could smell pizza — three flavours: margherita; pepperoni; anchovie and black olives. One sourdough, two normal base. Hand-made, not restaurant. Excellent quality. Still warm, her power supplied — and heard the screeching and roaring of Alec's latest purchase, a new racing game for their games console. From the sound of the voices, it seemed he was playing with Brian, and… someone else?
She scrambled up the last few steps, and burst into the room, grabbing her concealed pistol.
"Oh, hey Tats," Alec called over his shoulder, in his usual irreverent style. "Me and Brian needed a third, and we figured he would be good at the game." At the word 'he', Alec nodded his head sideways at the third player on the couch.
"Greetings, Tattletale," said Fleet, still looking at the screen, as he clipped a curb, flipped his vehicle over an obstacle, and landed flawlessly to take the lead.
"Bullshit! I call bullshit! There's no way that's possible, right Brian?"
"I achieved it, so clearly it is indeed possible. I believe the correct response here is 'Git Good, n00b'."
"He's got you there Alec." Brian set his own controller down as the race ended, and twisted around to face Lisa. "Alec suggested it, and I agreed. Since we've worked closer with Joe than anyone else, we wanted to get to know his team better. So, we phoned them up, and asked if they wanted to hang out. Fleet agreed —"
"Still wish he'd brought his sister!" Alec leered, and Brian grimaced briefly at the interruption.
"Survey," he explained at Lisa's visible incomprehension. "As I was saying, Fleet agreed to come over, play some games, tell us a bit about himself and his teammates, and brought some food. Pizza?" He grabbed a box off the table, and held it awkwardly over his shoulder for her to take a slice. Her power was right, she decided after a bite. Excellent quality indeed.
Mind whirling, Lisa decided she should probably leave any more questions until the morning. As she headed off to her room, Fleet called out to her once more.
"Tattletale. Apologies for the presumption, but I have taken the liberty of correcting your signage. Do not feel bad about missing her on Sunday."
Frowning, she turned to the wall with her notes on, only to faint in shock.
'THE CELESTIAL FORGE HAS
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I suddenly want to see Apeiron convert one of L33t's old pokeball projects into a parahuman capture and containment device.
That whole "kindness and anger are two sides of the same coin" thing was kind of bullshit. I get what she was going for about Joe in particular, but as the general rule it's presented as it's dumb.
Worm is full of people who are complete misanthropes but still get angry on a regular basis.
It's fortune cookie tier insight at best, which is ironic considering her powers. If that's what Lisa is like without a shard holding her hand then I think she's lost the right to be indignant about the whole thinkers are idiots with mental crutches trope.
Worm is full of people who are complete misanthropes but still get angry on a regular basis.
It's fortune cookie tier insight at best, which is ironic considering her powers. If that's what Lisa is like without a shard holding her hand then I think she's lost the right to be indignant about the whole thinkers are idiots with mental crutches trope.
Any votes on future boss music?
I vote for Doom when Apeiron faces off against his first Endbringer. (It's overdone, I know, but still my vote).
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOsB5AoKDJc
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Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
I think it would be better described as "Care is a fuel to Anger," as Lisa isn't wrong when she says that to become angry at something, you by definition have to care to care about something.