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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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One thing I don't quite understand is why any Eldar would oppose the reformation of Eldar Hegemony over the galaxy.

Sure they might want the details of its culture to look and be different, possibly radically different , but does anyone really want to be weak and vulnerable and prey for orks and worse*?

Why would anyone voluntarily stick a 'kick-me' sign to their back?

* I think the Eldar have prophecies that tell them that the Necrons are going to wake up hungry for revenge and annihilation of their old enemies one day, so they know that they probably have a choice, long term, between hegemony and extinction, unless they think they can hear the Necrons without being the hegemon.
 
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Should we perhaps save some time to do a little mocking of Biel-Tan as a treat to ourselves? jk

Alratan said:
One thing I don't quite understand is why any Eldar would oppose the reformation of Eldar Hegemony over the galaxy.

Sure they might want the details of its culture to look and be different, possibly radically different , but does anyone really want to be weak and vulnerable and prey for orks and worse?

Why would anyone voluntarily stick a 'kick-me' sign to their back?
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It could be a case of when we were in charge we screwed up so bad we made a new dark god so lets not try that again or it could be a case not right now shits on fire maybe later.
 
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Alratan said:
One thing I don't quite understand is why any Eldar would oppose the reformation of Eldar Hegemony over the galaxy.

Sure they might want the details of its culture to look and be different, possibly radically different , but does anyone really want to be weak and vulnerable and prey for orks and worse?
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If you're referring to Saim-Hann, their position is basically that the Empire Had It Too Easy, Hard Work Is Good For You. So they're opposed to the people who want "Empire 2.0, with romantic life-partners and moderate amounts of intoxicants!"

Because *gestures at the Eye or Terror* "That's what happened last time we did that."
 
So, it's likely that the Survivalists, Adaptionists, and the Preventionists are liable to strongly appreciate what we bring to bear for their own reasons, and the Asuryani aren't fundamentally opposed even if we've irritated Alaitoc, simply because what we bring to the table is Important and can help solve one of their major issues by allowing them to adjust accordingly, so we can mollify that coalition somewhat.

Revanchists are absolutely a political foe, but Iyanden has no special feelings against us. They're also the biggest Craftworld by far, so a meeting with them wouldn't be out of line.

@Mechanis , are we mostly just picking "Which factions are we courting in any given day?" Or specific Craftworlds?
 
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Here's what I'm thinking so far thoughts people?

[] plan
-[] day one
--[] First Block (Adaptionists)
--[] Second Block (Saim-Hann)
--[] Third Block (Ulthwe)
-[] day two
--[] First Block (Iyanden)
--[] Second Block (Independents)
--[] Third Block ()
-[] day three
--[] First Block ()
--[] Second Block ()
--[] Third Block ()
 
I'll be honest, I kind of want to see if any eldar factions would be interested in buying Ithilmar armor, plasma weapons, or the designs for either of those.
 
Mechanis said:
They are, however, strongly opposed to the Revanchist cause and Biel-Tan specifically, and therefore likely to be an ally in that matter even without any coxing on your part, simply for the opportunity to thwart Biel-Tan who have offended them mightily.
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Based, and I love those guys. Those are my people (well, my people other than our craftworld).

As for what to do, I obviously want to arrange a meeting between our old seer guy and Eldrad for sure. Definitely meet with Saim-Hann if only to pay respect to someone who managed to get 60 dragonlords to leave their world for the first time in few thousand years, probably.

Probably meet with Iyanden, maybe try to get Alaitoc to understand our position somewhat.

In general, the Survivalists seem the most interesting people; I really want to see how First Archon Tiraekr Daemonsbane reacts to our best plant-elf, also forwarding him that the everqueen is alive could be important, especially if he could be regent to the next regent-everqueen, or said REQ went Padme and is hidden in his entourage. First Princess Garin Yn'resh and her blade are a must for us given the very nature of said sword
 
Candesce said:
Looking at the various camps, I think that while the Survivalists might not care much about us, we probably care a fair bit about them - going over to talk about what disasters are ongoing and what help we might be able to lend would be just generally beneficial, even outside of the acquiring allies goal.

We probably want to talk to Alaitoc and Iyanden at least once. Alaitoc might be mad at us, but that's not reason to snub them further. We definitely don't want to snub Iyanden.

The Exodites might be interested in things we have to offer; certainly refitting fleets for them is simple and cheap for us, I'm generally in favor of doing it. Also, while we shouldn't be committing to larger projects at the moment, knowing what might be out there is worthwhile.

We should talk to other radicals, too; some of them will have done stuff we haven't, and we'll want to know about it even if all we learn is what not to do.
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We've got enough meeting slots to ping all five major factions at least once, with four slots to focus down. So this is really more about who do we talk to this first day, or more accurately who we don't.

Personally, I think we should honor Saim-Hann with our first meeting--emphasis our mutual respect, and incidentally get in contact with their Exodites--and sound out Ulthwe. I kind-of don't want to meet Iyanden on the first day until we know who else is in our camp, but at the same time every day we snub them is a day Lightning Blade gets to convince Firecaller of his position, so that has to happen on the first day, too.

F0lkL0re said:
Here's what I'm thinking so far thoughts people?
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If I'm understanding correctly, we're just voting for the first day right now. We'll have the chance to reassess and adjust our plans for subsequent days.
 
Mechanis said:
If you're referring to Saim-Hann, their position is basically that the Empire Had It Too Easy, Hard Work Is Good For You. So they're opposed to the people who want "Empire 2.0, with romantic life-partners and moderate amounts of intoxicants!"

Because *gestures at the Eye or Terror* "That's what happened last time we did that."
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Hmm. It seems a fine line though. For example, the Eldar. I think, have prophecies that tell them that one day the Necrons are going to wake up, and wake up angry and omnicidal.

Hard work may be good for you, but there's only so much you can handicap yourself before you wake up and there's a shard of a Star God eating your face and you can't do anything about it.
 
Alectai said:
So, it's likely that the Survivalists, Adaptionists, and the Preventionists are liable to strongly appreciate what we bring to bear, and the Asuryani aren't fundamentally opposed even if we've irritated Alaitoc, simply because what we bring to the table is Important and can help solve one of their major issues by allowing them to adjust accordingly.

Revanchists are absolutely a political foe, but Iyanden has no special feelings against us. They're also the biggest Craftworld by far, so a meeting with them wouldn't be out of line.

@Mechanis , are we mostly just picking "Which factions are we courting in any given day?" Or specific Craftworlds?
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You can pick an ideological faction or any of the specifically named Craftworlds to arrange meetings with, yes. Especially if you intend to basically have a pre-meeting pre-meeting to determine what your pre-meeting meeting is going to be about. welcome to politics.
Profilozof said:
Based, and I love those guys. Those are my people (well, my people other than our craftworld).

As for what to do, I obviously want to arrange a meeting between our old seer guy and Eldrad for sure. Definitely meet with Saim-Hann if only to pay respect to someone who managed to get 60 dragonlords to leave their world for the first time in few thousand years, probably.
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Just for clarity: there are 60 Exodite worlds who sent representatives, basically to witness the proceedings and go "yeah, right!" for their faction. Only a handful have their Dragonlords attending in person, though, and those are specifically named as doing so.

edit: Granted, even sending a representative at all is a pretty big statement, as far as the Exodites go.
 
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dgr11897 said:
I'll be honest, I kind of want to see if any eldar factions would be interested in buying Ithilmar armor, plasma weapons, or the designs for either of those.
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I'm pretty damned sure the Revanchists are going to want the ability to create psy-scopes and starcrystal. The question is to what degree we're willing to trade with them, because those are very mean weapons we'd prefer not to have pointed at us, and *waves* Biel-Tan.

The survivalists are probably interested in tech, but that comes second to putting out fires. Depends on how many fires they have ongoing, which we might find out when we talk to them.

Independents and Adaptationists are probably grab-bags, but our suncasters in particular are very solid weapons that don't require maintaining exotics production. There will probably be interest.

The Conservationists... not sure. They're not exactly the kinds of people who consider technological advancement an unalloyed good, but we've certainly seen plasma-armed Exodite ships before. I'd assume they're not up for the exotics, though. Only stuff they can make for themselves.
 
[] plan
-[] day one
--[] First Block (Adaptionists)
--[] Second Block (Saim-Hann)
--[] Third Block (Ulthwe)
-[] day two
--[] First Block (Iyanden)
--[] Second Block (Independents)
--[] Third Block (ask Ulthwe for help making a seer circle)
-[] day three
--[] First Block (Try to see how strong the Iyanden - Biel-tan relationship is)
--[] Second Block (ask Saul-Hann is they have ideas on how to train more bone signers)
--[] Third Block (Does any need fleet repairs?)

I now this isn't good just giving ideas
 
Another thought. As I understand it, we IC, think the Revanchists' goals are infeasible.

That means that we don't need to oppose them. We can just nod and smile and let them get on with it. We can do business with them, look for any objects or goals of common interest, and just politely say we have a headache if they ask us to help with any particularly silly galactic conquest ideas that we don't see as being useful on a more immediate scale.

If we think they're going to fail anyway, we don't need to spend any political capital to thwart them. We can just take advantage of them where we can.

This may also be true for the other Adaptionists. We should be happy to work with the Revanchists where our local interests overlap.

This is different to the Preventionists. The logic of their position is that the Revanchists might succeed, and effort needs to be spent to thwart them.

We may be able to be a bridge between the two. Particularly as I think the Revanchists goals are so far away from being possible that even if they're feasible in the very long term, I the long term we're all dead either in a soul stone or out temporary embarrassment is over and we're demigods again.
 
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Right, a reminder: we can leave slots open for people to talk to us, and we probably should.

I'm thinking touching base with every faction (the five major, and feeling out the independents) and at least two timeslots to listen to other people's concerns. Is there anyone we want to talk to twice?
 
Profilozof said:
This makes me want to build craftworld but for war, just imagine

Circa Siege of Terra, gathering grounds of "freeing mom" force
Biel-Tan representative with token force: Where are those mad northerners?
Eldrad&Harlequins smug beyond belief: Oh they needed to take longer path, many webway paths were to small
Biel-Tan: What do you...
Northern coalition arriving with multiple swords of vaul, voidcanons and fully militarised craftworld that they have built
Biel-Tan who planed to do kinstrife after the heirst: By the will of Khaine
Khaine of last days, who was made self-sustaining and remorseful by us: You're right, laddy. Now we are getting my daughter out.
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Don't you wish we were arriving with our crone sword class?
Mechanis said:
First Princess Garin Yn'resh with Petalcutter, the ancestral blade of her house
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And us with no sons present to woo her.
Mechanis said:
Biel-Tan who have offended them mightily.
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Ahh. Beil-tan is going after exodite worlds because more than individual craftworlds, they are targets which can't just flee since their worlds don't just need engine repairs to be mobile.
Mechanis said:
[ ] First Block (Write-in, subject to QM approval)
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We want to meet with Iyanden first, before they have time to politic with anyone else and be convinced of any in other stances, and get them considering allying with us. For all that their imperialists their reasonable and can be convinced of the fact that they certainly can't restore the empire while three curses diminish them and convinced of the need to rescue Isha. It's probably the one shot we have. We'll want to meet with them at least once more before this ends, probably at the end of day three, when we'll have a better idea of how things are shaking out and they'll have had time to feel out other parties, to convince them they should work with us.

If we are meeting with Iyanden we need to meet Saim-han to assure them we aren't going imperialist and get them up to speed. With 60 exodite worlds their a pretty strong faction in their own right and would go a long way to consolidating them under us. We only need to meet them once however. Our goal should be to try and convincing them it's worthwhile to try and separate Iyanden from Beil-tan and leave the imperialist cause divided.

From there we start on the neutrals and independents. Feed them the Tale of Meros and convince them we have fleets to throw around to aid friends and that we have a strong coalition in the north. We aren't the best situated for this do to leaving the serpent behind, but we should still do well.

Thoughts?
 
Candesce said:
Right, a reminder: we can leave slots open for people to talk to us, and we probably should.

I'm thinking touching base with every faction (the five major, and feeling out the independents) and at least two timeslots to listen to other people's concerns. Is there anyone we want to talk to twice?
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I don't fully agree with this, I think we should talk with our own faction as well. Get to know people and know their views/what they have.
 
Mechanis said:
You can pick an ideological faction or any of the specifically named Craftworlds to arrange meetings with, yes. Especially if you intend to basically have a pre-meeting pre-meeting to determine what your pre-meeting meeting is going to be about. welcome to politics.
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Okay in that case I think that we should go something like that:

Day One:
  1. Adaptionists/Radicals: we are one of the bigger Craftworld and coalitions here, so trying to position ourselves as first among equals is important. And even if the premeeting won't allow us to get said position, knowing what others thing will be important in meetings to follow.
  2. Survivalists: They are quite important to greet and it also signals to all other factions that what we will share involves the great enemy so they are likely to waste less time (Biel-tan is stupid and will probably waste it anyway, but others don't deserve that). While meeting Ulthwe could work here it is important to remember that most people will be busy with that and before our information bomb they are likely to be busy
  3. Saim-Hann & Exodites / the Conservationists: We treat them with respect and have pleasant meeting at the end of the day. Mostly to continue our mutual respect relationship and maybe destress for a bit.
Day Two:
  1. Iyanden: Pls big guy control your rabid friend
  2. the Asuryani: We don't hate them. They don't hate us. We should make sure that bad blood between us and Alaitoc won't change that.
  3. Independents: Acknowledge that they exist and maybe see who is who and where, maybe try to begin sway them to our view
Day three:
  1. Ulthwe: Because we really need to check in with them
  2. Alaitoc: Because maybe being nice to them now will make their reaction to the next day news better
  3. Adaptionists/Radicals: Meeting people similar to us and giving them hope and or reminding them that they and we will be vindicated tomorrow could make us into leader
 
[] [First Block] Meet with our fellow Adaptionists to rally them towards our banner.
[] [Second Block] Touch base with Saim-Hann to see if they're amenable to forming a coalition against the Revanchists.
[] [Third Block] See where we stand with Ulthwe and what we can do to improve that.

Here's my reasoning:
  1. The Radicals/Adaptionists are described as having no central voice, so we should start gathering supporters now. In the best-case scenario, we get nearly the entire faction at our backs. In reality, I expect we'll be sharing leadership with several other craftworlds.
  2. It'd be pretty easy to push them towards our camp with a couple concessions.
  3. Including Draylin in the Ulthwe meeting would help immensely in negotiations.
 
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