- Location
- FL
accept compromise does not mean completely bowing down to people trying to murder us modify our starting position does not mean abandoning it.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
You are aware that it states nowhere that this is a thing we can do? As far as text shows rescuing Isha is to stop Nurgle's curse and have Isha back, that is it.
And nothing says we can't do it either. Hence defeatism. As I say it may be rational defeatism, best before we try, how do we know. Defeatism is assuming failure befor me even trying, which is literally what you're doing here.
This is the doomsteism people complain about.
No one, I believe, has ever suggested bowing down to anyone, so I'd appreciate it if you retracted that.
I said we should update our plans based on the new information we've learned. That's what sensible people do. When the facts change they should change their minds, not cling on to their earlier choices in the face of new evidence.
If we learn, for example, one neat trick that makes Soul Forging unnecessary (not that I think we will), why would we still insist on going through with it?
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- Location
- FL
you have been constantly talking about how we need to appease the conservatives of which beil'tan is the leader when your trying to make nice with the guy who is trying to murder you i would call that bowing down. especially since now your talking about no longer walking the path that they are trying to murder us for walking. we call letting someone dictate your policy's via violence and its threat bowing down.
- Location
- United Kingdom
If it wasn't for the slot swapping penalty I'd be tempted by either dual heavy mortars or even 1 vehicle-scale one, but this is probably the best we could get.
No. I've been consistently arguing that we shouldn't hammer on their sensitivities and instead try to change the subject at the conference to something we can find some agreement on (or rather, neutral intermediary can)
That is not bowing down. That is the most basic and primitive 'how to diplomacy'.
Another, slightly more advanced form of diplomacy is empathy, trying to put yourself in the other parties' shoes and understand why they think they're right. If you can't do that, you're also a terrible diplomat.
And lastly, diplomacy is the art of the compromise. You have to interrogate your own position so you know what you can compromise on and what you can't. Importantly, it's very easy to get too attached to means, not to ends, so you need to be particularly hard on yourself when you're adamant that there is only one way, and other methods can't work.
Our goal here isn't soul forging for the sake of it. It's to overcome the Curses. We should, IC, and OOC, go in with an open mind and be prepared to evaluate the various different methods of doing so.
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- Location
- The Cosmos
I gotta ask when a craftworld is "destroyed" in canon does it mean the whole thing was blown up, its inhabitants were wiped out, or rendered incapable of sustaining life or transport (without monumental repairs). The former is implausible due to its size, the later two are more acceptable.
Also warhammer 40k is laughably inconsistent and events that certain characters and factions achieve are inconceivable. I'd take certain lore statements about the imperium destroying this or that with a planets worth of salt, as many times(as in nearly always) the authors of warhammer never consider how implausible or outright impossible some of the things their characters accomplish are, they just think how cool it will make them look. With the outlandishness of some stated feats in 40k I personally headcanon some of it as propaganda and completely fabricated, it wouldn't put it past the Imperium to embellish or out lie about battles they lost.
Also warhammer 40k is laughably inconsistent and events that certain characters and factions achieve are inconceivable. I'd take certain lore statements about the imperium destroying this or that with a planets worth of salt, as many times(as in nearly always) the authors of warhammer never consider how implausible or outright impossible some of the things their characters accomplish are, they just think how cool it will make them look. With the outlandishness of some stated feats in 40k I personally headcanon some of it as propaganda and completely fabricated, it wouldn't put it past the Imperium to embellish or out lie about battles they lost.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
As big as they are I feel that 'blow up' starts to lose all significance. They are big enough that gravity alone could hold them together.
- Pronouns
- Kho
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Well the best we can get just now, later on we'll be getting actual military chassis so that should change things.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
"A Warband of Night Lords no-diffs a Craftworld, how scary!"
(Craftworlds are planetoids)
But yeah, generally speaking, Craftworlds usually don't get completely destroyed, just their population wiped out and all the necessary equipment needed to sustain it smashed by angry monkeys or possessed by Daemons.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Has it become excessively spherical?
That would be my test, because that would mean the antigravity holding the thing together has stopped working, and everything inside is being squashed into a moderately-sized Wraithbone scrap planet by its natural mass.
Didn't Battle fleet Gothic Armada two have an inquisitor try to go after one of the near Eye of Terror craftworlds with a bunch of two stage cyclonic torpedoes?
If that is the general plan of action (either using a boarding party plus exterminatus weaponry or just using it via torpedoes) it would explain how the Imperium can destroy craftworlds. With the larger craftworld sizes having the population sizes that ensure that they can better fight off such attacks.
Yes, the GW canon 'policy' is that everything is a reflection of an IC narrative.
Some of the authors of those are wrong or lying.
?
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
granted, that doesn't necessarily correspond to livable space---the things are (rather sensibly) designed to be structurally sound even with all the gravity stuff turned off, and then a lot of the volume is machinery spaces and such, but yes, Craftworlds generally have a floorspace more in common with a planetary surface or three than a typical voidcraft.
Craftworlds, as mentioned, do have such defenses---from truly colossal macro-weapons too large for any lesser voidship, to batteries of more typically sized weapons---but due to their scale, these emplacements are less in the manner of a voidship's weapons batteries and more greatly resemble a planetary-defense fortress built on the vast expanses of their outer hull. Some even maintain strange and exotic engines from before the Fall, whose makings are now beyond the Aeldari, the knowledge of how they were built and the skills and tools for doing so long since perished from the galaxy, but unspeakably deadly when roused to war.
mass-scattering a Craftworld is difficult, yes. Blasting it into a spherical pile of rubble and ruin, on the other hand, is perfectly doable.
It varies. sometimes "destroyed" is "the wards failed, everyone died, and now there's possessed aspect armors shambling around looking for things to kill all over the place." sometimes "destroyed" is "the entire population got wiped out by something or other."
Sometimes it's "Be'lakor suplexed it into the local star."
There's lots of ways to destroy a craftworld, and odds are that by 40k there's at least one of them that were so destroyed.
Either that, Or start judging Based on how much of its Mass has been forcibly separated and sent moving at speed in Different directions, Given the existence of Deamon Magicks and Exterminatus weaponry even from humans, Actually shattering a Craftworld into a debris cloud should be Rare, But possible.
As I showed, we could make a light grav vehicle with double vehicle scale mortars. Takes one slot swap, but that's a big enough vehicle that's mostly negligible, and not that much pricey compared to the speeder design.
I suppose it depends on the compressive strength of wraithbone, assuming that's a meaningful consideration. If wraithbone simply asserts, this is my mass, this is my volume, these are my dimensions, and reality has to accommodate that, lots of problems of megastructures go away.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Will we eventually get to a point where we can construct new craftworlds?
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
It does have some limits as to how strong it can be made, how dense it is, and so on, with an extremely complex relationships on those matters, but suffice to say that yes Wraithbone's properties are to a considerable degree arbitrary. Comes with being basically literally imaginary material that the Eldar force into being Real Material by dint of being absolutely nonsense broken Psykers.
One thing I noticed before was your mention of Meros having kine-shields, which I think you mentioned elsewhere usually exploded into daemons: along with the people who were old and experienced enlightenment to know how to make it.
I don't suppose Meros' leader is an exception…