A thought on the Radicals. How disparate, Tolstoyian* are, they?

If all Radicals are Radical in their own unique way at we may want to meet with them at the end when we've had chance to hear gossip in advance about which are radical in ways we like and which are in ways we really don't like.

For example, if there are some minor craftworlds that have started down the psychic vampire route and are have spread more mundane versions of Eldar sports to a bunch of human worlds and are harvesting the fans' passion that's one kind of thing, and it's a potentially a different problem if another Craftworld has done what I discussed before and set themselves up as the pantheon for a swathe of different species and is harvesting their worship.

Radicalism could be incredibly disparate, and could easily be very opposed to each other's approaches.

Unfortunately, with our small party, we may not gather much gossip as we'll be in meetings all the time, but we may pick some things up.

* all happy families look the same, all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way

We have absolutely said it. That's why Alaitoc is mad at us and Biel-Tan is murderous.

And they're one of the five major factions I mentioned, yes.

We've publicly rejected the paths and said we don't think re-establishing the Dominion is possible. So have the Exodites. I think that's it, unless I'm missing something.

I'm not sure that people would know that we're Adaptionists rather than Preventionists unless we tell them. Or they meet the Ishari.
 
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I'm thinking touching base with every faction (the five major, and feeling out the independents) and at least two timeslots to listen to other people's concerns. Is there anyone we want to talk to twice?
Iyanden, meet them first day 1 and at the end of day 3. By being the first in the door they know we mean business about allying with them and by waiting until the end of day three they'll have had time to feel out others and realize we are there best shot.

We should make ourselves available first meeting time on the second day and second meeting time on the first.

The Radicals can be met first on the last day. Their already in our corner and the news we bring will be enough to get them to follow up for certain in the aftermath.
Our camp, Ulthwe and Saim-Hann for the first day for sure.
Our camp is on our side already and certain to be extremely grateful for vindicating there rationale. We can meet them day 3 and come out perfectly fine, or they can come meet us on the make ourselves available slot in day two. Their the most likely to meet with us post Aeldmoot given our successes and disposition, so we can afford to not make them number one priority.
Should we perhaps save some time to do a little mocking of Biel-Tan as a treat to ourselves? jk


It could be a case of when we were in charge we screwed up so bad we made a new dark god so lets not try that again or it could be a case not right now shits on fire maybe later.
I think it's more "the old empire were sort of egotistical dicks who managed to fuck over even those of us who didn't follow there ways. Let's not be those guys ever again".
There are more than just us in the faction.
Yes, and we traveled here with them. Planned out who we were bringing and what our objectives were according to basic plot logic. They don't need an entire third of the day put aside for them, because we all arrived relatively on the same page. They'll be attending all the meetings alongside us.
I think meeting with them at least two times is my main thought.
We can meet with them once and be fine. We don't need to convince them of anything so much as get them up to speed. Their ideology and the power this gives them will have them in our corner regardless, and their the most likely to try and maintain contact post Aeldmoot and coordinate given the work we've done and a likely desire to contribute and benefit. Giving them as little time as possible to spill the beans to independents is too our benefit.
 
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So: having a general idea of who we want to talk to - we also need a what.

Ulthwe and the Survivalists are easy - we want to know if there are any fires we can help put out.

Saim-Hann and the Exodites I think we just poke around saying hi and asking if anyone wants to refit fleets in our docks.

Alaitoc I think might be interested in tech if we want to try and bribe them into being less hostile; Iyanden is almost certainly interested, but if they get it we can assume Biel-Tan gets it, and there's stuff we'd rather they not have. Then again, Alaitoc might make sure Biel-Tan gets anything we trade them, too - they are hostile to us.

Independents we can probably get away with talking to just to talk to; we're not one of the majors, but we're still a large Craftworld and a relatively generous one, so talking to them is something of a gift of its own; once they've talked to us, other factions are likely to talk to them too just to find out if we let anything spicy slip.
 
This isn't planning for the entire Pre-Aeldmoot, is it @Mechanis ? Just the first day?
First day of three, yes. after all the entire point of this section is to acquire (more detailed) information in advance of the main event, and lay groundwork for further diplomatic efforts. and depending on the information you obtain, you may alter initial plans.
 
Yet another comment, based on this:

or were put in contact with each other by the Harlequins, suggesting at least tacit support from the Laughing God.

I'll have to find a reference as I can't track it down, but I dimly recall reading something that a large part of the reason for the Harlequins' position in Eldar society was that they were, on the whole, scrupulously neutral. They performed for all the other factions without fear or favour, and that's why they were welcomed everywhere, because they didn't put their finger on the scales on a macro level.

Now, Harlequins are tough cookies, but they're not invincible (see the piece of Dark Eldar war gear apparently made by flaying the face from a Shadowseer). Their neutrality is valuable to them, not least because of how they are dependent on recruiting from their audiences. If some of the factions decide that the Harlequins are not neutral, and close their gates to them, that could be an issue for them.

We've already seen that many Craftworlds are prepared to discard key tenets of Pre-Fall theology/morality. The custom on hospitality for Harlequins is something not dissimilar to that.
 
Yes, and we traveled here with them. Planned out who we were bringing and what our objectives were according to basic plot logic. They don't need an entire third of the day put aside for them, because we all arrived relatively on the same page. They'll be attending all the meetings alongside us.
I think he meant the rest of the Adaptionists, not our entourage--who aren't even mostly Adaptionists themselves. The Dragon-Lord's more in Saim-Hann's wheel, and Arach-Quinn, Meros, and Zar-Tann could go either which way in the future.

Which emphasizes our need for broad outreach among the Survivalists and the Preventionists as well as the Adaptionists, if we want to keep our current coalition.
 
I'll have to find a reference as I can't track it down, but I dimly recall reading something that a large part of the reason for the Harlequins' position in Eldar society was that they were, on the whole, scrupulously neutral. They performed for all the other factions without fear or favour, and that's why they were welcomed everywhere, because they didn't put their finger on the scales on a macro level.
Well that and a tendency to being able to pull off some very impressive acts of vengeance.
 
I think that most people don't get is that those meetings will probably take 3 hours, maybe 5 if we are luck and include walking from place to place. These meetings won't be (or at least shouldn't be) "I want X, I can give you Y, lets trade." there will be time for that for sure, but now before the news drops we will be negotiating from our weakest position, what we need to do is get to know people, leave the impression so they are more receptive of the reveal, and maybe defuse potential bombs.

Another thing is the importance of when the talks will take place, which I interpret thusly.
  • The meetings on day one as a whole will be most important as we present who we value and respect the most as well as why the moot takes place.
  • Day 1.1 will set the tone and expectation for what others expect. We called the meeting for this. Meeting anyone other than Ulthwe/Survivalists or Adaptionists will be a bad move, as other players will play the wrong game. While I would love to waste Biel-Tan's time, this would also waste everyone else's time.
  • Day 1.2. If we meet our people, I really think that we need to meet Survivalists next. Meeting other radicals doesn't point out the nature of our news, only that we want/are representing other Adaptionists. Meeting survivalists or Ulthwe who are based and hate chaos means that the news is of a psychic nature and most likely a great enemy, which means that we aren't just doing the meeting for our own sake.
  • Day 1.3. This and all other 3rd meetings will follow a full day of meetings and, as such, should be focused on less difficult talks, ones which allow both us and other delegations to somewhat destress while not fully wasting our time. As such, I think that meeting Saim-Hann & Exodites will be perfect here; we honour them by virtue of meeting them before any other faction that won't be the major talking point of the moot, give them vague warnings and probably have a good time to end (hopefully) the successful first day.
  • Day 2 as a whole is just meh in terms of importance
  • day 2.1. more important than 2.2. so whatever is more important, stopping Biel-Tan from throwing shit on us (and thus weakening their future position when the reveal happens) or making sure that Asurayni knows that we don't think that they are stupid, goes her while the other-
  • day 2.2. -goes here
  • Day 2.3. After likely the most difficult meetings of all prelude to the moot, this is likely the day when we will be on our most tired, I think that we should either meet Independets this time or one of the lesser craftworlds like Varantha or Lanimayash.
  • Day 3 This day is different because 3rd meeting will actually be the most important as it will give precise warnings to a particular faction/craftworld and the general one to all others based on which we will choose.
  • 3.1. same rules as before: talking now is more important than talking later, I personally want to talk with our hater, who we stand a chance of convening not to do something stupid the next day, so I would put meeting Alaitoc here now that I think about it
  • 3.2. Ulthwe would appreciate a warning even if vague, and Eldrad could talk with our seerlord so that they may talk shop (and maybe have a follow up meeting, which will create a better seer circle)
  • 3.3. The 2nd most important meeting other than 1.1. and I personally want to use it to solidify our position as leader of the Adaptionists
And I know that planing all 9 meetings now before someone throws a wrench in the plans by suddenly appearing (like maybe faction of people who wanted to ditch the galaxy but we called meeting before they could), but this is my attempt at explaining why whens are important and why.
 
So this isn't optimal but I feel we have to go full in character at some point while visiting Ulthwe's coalition and ask to check out the blade Vaul made.
 
Anyway, for Day One, I think it's a day where we should map out our boundaries. I think we definitely want to chat with Ulthwe and Iyanden early on, but spend a Faction action on ourselves.

Iyanden gets a private meeting because we're giving them face as a First Among Equals and letting them know "This shit is serious and we all need to know it, and I trust you to be responsible enough to run herd on the extremists until we've informed everyone", and Ulthwe so we can get an introduction to the rest of the Survivalists and start politicking there. Then we want to start consolidating our own natural allies into a cohesive block, as they're presently the only one that lacks a major champion. We're not a Major, but we've got the tacit approval of the Clown, and that matters quite a bit especially given the coalition we've already mobilized, they're scattered for now, getting them backing us will matter quite a lot in the days ahead.

The intent for the second day would be to capitalize on what we learn day one, but at present it's mostly "One Open Slot, 1x Asuryani, 1x Survivalists", but there's a lot to figure out still, and we don't know what openings we need.

Third Day is too dependent on how day one and two goes to make predictions.
 
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I'll have to find a reference as I can't track it down, but I dimly recall reading something that a large part of the reason for the Harlequins' position in Eldar society was that they were, on the whole, scrupulously neutral. They performed for all the other factions without fear or favour, and that's why they were welcomed everywhere, because they didn't put their finger on the scales on a macro level.

Now, Harlequins are tough cookies, but they're not invincible (see the piece of Dark Eldar war gear apparently made by flaying the face from a Shadowseer). Their neutrality is valuable to them, not least because of how they are dependent on recruiting from their audiences. If some of the factions decide that the Harlequins are not neutral, and close their gates to them, that could be an issue for them.

We've already seen that many Craftworlds are prepared to discard key tenets of Pre-Fall theology/morality. The custom on hospitality for Harlequins is something not dissimilar to that.
It's a pretty big reach to say that Harlequin's helping the Radicals means that they are biased in their favor.

Harlequin perform for and offer support to all Eldar factions and all them lending the Radicals a helping hand means is that they still regard the Radicals as Eldar regardless of their unorthodox beliefs.

The Radical Eldar take the fact that the Harlequin's are helping them as tacit support from Cegorath because all other Eldar factions are getting help from him through his servants which tells them that they are still considered Eldar in his books.

If the Harlequin's refused to help the Radicals that would be a far greater indictment on their neutrality than if they did because it would mean that they are blatantly refusing to help a faction of Eldar.
 
I disagree we should allow the Biel-Tan to be stupid for one day and then come to them first thing tomorrow so they can shut them up.
We can't get Iyanden to make Biel-tan stop without both justification that they plan/are capable of kinstrife and in only 3-5 hours without having the achievement of discovering the true nature of the curses. These are pre meetings, so I think Saim-Hann alone will be able to lesser the extend of Biel-Tan talking shit in 4~ish meetings.
and Ulthwe so we can get an introduction to the rest of the Survivalists and start politicking there. Then we want to start consolidating our own natural allies into a cohesive block, as they're presently the only one that lacks a major champion. We're not a Major, but we've got the tacit approval of the Clown, and that matters quite a bit especially given the coalition we've already mobilized, they're scattered for now, getting them backing us will matter quite a lot in the days ahead.
I disagree again; while I agree that we should meet with Ulthwe/Survivalist early on (1st or 2nd meeting), we are smaller than Ulthwe, and as such us asking to meet them first before we meet the rest of the Survivalists, could look like us thinking ourselves better than the rest of survalist. Like asking parent for permission to touch their kids, which we all can agree isn't in it of itself bad, it does infantalise other survivalist, as such I think that general meeting first would be better
 
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This isn't planning for the entire Pre-Aeldmoot, is it @Mechanis ? Just the first day?
From when you arrived, there are Three (3) Days until the Moot proper begins
It's the first three days, with 3 time slots to arrange meetings, or set aside time for people to meet us.
Saim-Hann and the Exodites I think we just poke around saying hi and asking if anyone wants to refit fleets in our docks.
I think we just need to touch base with them and suggest that maybe they can earn more promance and respect if they help the survivalists as well. Arrange some manner of of permanent representative exchange between us and them. We'll likely be too busy helping the survivalists to refit any of their 60 exodite allies for a while.
Alaitoc I think might be interested in tech if we want to try and bribe them into being less hostile; Iyanden is almost certainly interested, but if they get it we can assume Biel-Tan gets it, and there's stuff we'd rather they not have. Then again, Alaitoc might make sure Biel-Tan gets anything we trade them, too - they are hostile to us.
Offer them tech, clue them in about Isha's survival with minimal explanation to shake them up a little going into the Aeldmoot proper.

Independents we can probably get away with talking to just to talk to; we're not one of the majors, but we're still a large Craftworld and a relatively generous one, so talking to them is something of a gift of its own; once they've talked to us, other factions are likely to talk to them too just to find out if we let anything spicy slip.
Mention the galactic north is relatively free of chaos forces, with only a slightly troublesome Ork infestation in it's Western half. A good place for less martial worlds to rest and recover under the protection of our allied forces.
I'll have to find a reference as I can't track it down, but I dimly recall reading something that a large part of the reason for the Harlequins' position in Eldar society was that they were, on the whole, scrupulously neutral. They performed for all the other factions without fear or favour, and that's why they were welcomed everywhere, because they didn't put their finger on the scales on a macro level.
If the Harlequin's have something to say, we can leave a time slot open on the second and third days each, and they'll likely use one of them. We should assume they'll be aware of everything we have done and are planning to do.
can these pre-meeting meetings be used to facilitate trade deals to those we meet?
Aeldari trade in services and large asset trades rather than general goods, based on the quest thus far, so it's not a thing really. We would want to reserve our aid for the Survivalist in the most dangerous part of the Galaxy and suggest the independents come north for relative safety and lack of chaos foes.
Anyway, for Day One, I think it's a day where we should map out our boundaries. I think we definitely want to chat with Ulthwe and Iyanden early on, but spend a Faction action on ourselves.

Iyanden gets a private meeting because we're giving them face as a First Among Equals and letting them know "This shit is serious and we all need to know it, and I trust you to be responsible enough to run herd on the extremists until we've informed everyone", and Ulthwe so we can get an introduction to the rest of the Survivalists and start politicking there.

The intent for the second day would be to capitalize on what we learn day one, but at present it's mostly "One Open Slot, 1x Asuryani, 1x Survivalists", but there's a lot to figure out still, and we don't know what openings we need.

Third Day is too dependent on how day one and two goes to make predictions.
Edit: nevermind. I'm an idiot. We do get to meet them day by day.

I think we should meet Iyanden first day one before anyone else gets to politic them. If we do that we have to meet Saim-han as well so they know we are giving them the same respect and suggest maybe we can split Iyanden from Beil-tan and divide the Imperialist cause, or just to suggest to them that they could earn much respect by helping the survivalists with their fleets.

We can use the middle slot for Ulthwe or independents, depending on what we have planned for Saim-han.

Day two should have the first meeting of the day us providing open reception, Incase the Harlequin's have something to say or someone else want to meet us. We can meet two of the factions we haven't met day one with our other two timeslots.

Day three should have us meeting Iyanden last to get a read on what direction their heading and how to lean on them during the rest of the event, as well as getting a read on how the rest of their meeting since the beginning of day 1 have gone. We leave the middle slot of the day open for whoever is interested and the Hearlequins if they don't show up day two. The first slot of the day can go to the Radicals to get them on the same page but leave them very little time to spill the beans.
I disagree we should allow the Biel-Tan to be stupid for one day and then come to them first thing tomorrow so they can shut them up.
We can't get Iyanden to make Biel-tan stop without both justification that they plan/are capable of kinstrife and in only 3-5 hours without having the achievement of discovering the true nature of the curses. These are pre meetings, so I think Saim-Hann alone will be able to lesser the extend of Biel-Tan talking shit in 4~ish meetings.
No. Meet them first. Showing that we made them our first priority will earn browny points and sends a message to the rest that Iyanden considers Vau-Vulkesh a serious player. It let's us make the first impression, and get a read on how they are day one, for a better comparison at the end of day three.
 
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I'm fairly certain that doesn't bear from the text. In particular, the fact that the update is titled 'Pre-Meeting Meetings, 1/3'.

But let's be sure. @Mechanis ?
Yeah. I'm bouncing around too much big politics in my head and missing small mechanics details.

Now, assuming we meet Iyanden first block day one, do we focus entirely on revealing the existence of Isha and feeling them our as potential allies, or are there other concerns?

Is it more important to get an early start on the independents or Ulthwe?

If we are are meeting Saim-han, what is our goal? Touching base? Maybe convincing them to help us help Ulthwe?
 
I think we need to focus upon 2 things for these meetings.

1. Convince the Independents to become Radicals
2. Convince the small bands of Radicals to start heading north to join us in the Halo Stars.

With our tech, our willingness to defend our allies, and our ability to leverage our exotic tech production we should be able to convince a few minor Craftworlds to join our coalition.
 
No. Meet them first. Showing that we made them our first priority will earn browny points and sends a message to the rest that Iyanden considers Vau-Vulkesh a serious player. It let's us make the first impression, and get a read on how they are day one, for a better comparison at the end of day three.
It will also send a message that we called the moot mostly to get them to shut Biel-tan up. It will send a message that we treat Iyanden as more important than other major craft worlds and that they are leaders of "the smallest faction by total population." This would be a very bad message, which could taint our relationship with Conservationists, who will otherwise support us if only because Revanchists don't like us.

For the love of Isha, Iyanden is reasonable, they can afford waiting a day as they will probably be busy meeting with Biel-tan, other Revanchists, Ulthwe, Asuryani or Alaitoc. This isn't Iyanden of 30k-40k who was the unofficial leader of all eldar and who did a lot to deserve such title, so far their biggest achievement is sharing the soulstones which they had surplus and being individual the largest.

While I agree that getting their opinion of things on day one could prove useful when meeting Asuryani in general or Alaitoc in particular, we don't need them instantly. We need them to be open-minded during the reveal and make Biel-tan behave afterwards, all of which won't be that hard; getting some concession from them, like researching the last flame of Assuryan, would make it so buttering them up, would be necessary,, but for now, without even seer circle that isn't a priority.
1. Convince the Independents to become Radicals
I think that just making them not Revanchists would be good enough for me
 
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I'm pretty damned sure the Revanchists are going to want the ability to create psy-scopes and starcrystal. The question is to what degree we're willing to trade with them, because those are very mean weapons we'd prefer not to have pointed at us, and *waves* Biel-Tan.
What I think they're gonna take from this is the belief that they need to git good at god crafting.
Eventually, that is.

And one thing we don't want is for Biel-bed-shitting-Tan to have any say about "what are the Alderi gods like."

Though that is likely to be a commonly held position of most Alderi, so it's not like we'll be the only ones worried about such.
 
my focus day 1 would be on our faction, then the survivalists. Biel-tan/iyandan/everyone else can wait. focus in firstly on those that need help. show that despite our diffrence in views, we are still eldar, and we still care. politics can come day two and three, once we actually have met our colaition and understand what they are needing from this meeting, and once we have met the craft worlds most in danger, and what they need to not get eaten by the thirsting one (probably more everything, but we should be able to provide that i hope.) I want to leave a slot open day one to find out who comes to us. but i am worried that we will not have enough of a impression to have anyone swing by and it wastes a slot.
 
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