A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

[Randino Treviani]

Do you mean soul stones?

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Yes. Thank you.

how about using one of our actions to introduce Eldrad and the SeerLord that we brought with us

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Not a bad idea.


[ ] Second Block : Meet with Ulthwe and their fellow Survivalists. Have Draylin of the True Sight, Seerlord of Meros talk shop with Farseer Eldrad Ulthran.

A good start. Should I go blunt with the inquiries as to their situation and offers of aid, or should we go with subtle and tell the tale of Meros and our managing to repair their engines and avert their doom as a hint as to our industrial capacity and it's potential usefulness post fall?

Also we should absolutely have more important meetings (Eldrad, our faction, Iyanden) twice.

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I don't think we need to have double meetings with Eldrad or our faction. Their the two most likely to coordinate with us post Aeldmoot given their views and the nature of our reveal. Once should be good to lay the ground work for an easier transition into allies post Aeldmoot. We want at least two slots for people, especially the Harlequin's, to come talk to us after all. I'm thinking we hold a reception on the first block of day two and the second block of day 3, before meet Iyanden at the end of the second day.

Speaking of Iyanden, I think discuss their soul stones and our Aversion of the doom of Meros through applied industry and our exotic weapons is the way to go. Acknowledge their contributions to the Aeldari people and maybe have draylin speculate on other uses, before transitioning into a tale that highlights our value as an ally.

Making that deal before the reveal is a mistake, I think.

Right now, Iyanden thinks that getting Biel Tan to back off is a huge favor, and they'll charge us accordingly. once we reveal, that value drops dramatically.

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Indeed. We want to butter them up and talk up our own accomplishment. Averting a doom is no small thing and speaks of our value as an ally.

I think the first block should be iyanden, dropping a teasing hint to our information.
We should also focus on our actions saving other eldar, regardless of what they believe.
Hopefully, that will put them off balance with diplomacy and create some friction between the two.

After that, we should reach out to other adaptationists that are not our allies, and make sure they don't get poached.

And finally, either Saim-hann, the major Craftworld that already respects us. We give them a courtesy visit and show the respect they want... Should be a cheap investment.
Or Ulthwe. We are ideologically aligned on the "fuck chaos" aspect and we have the seerlord, which eldrad doubtless will love meeting. We can discuss engine repairs as well.
But i think ulthwe will keep for the first day, and are very likely to be influenced by our info.
Saim-hann should be first because their pride is key to keeping them favorably aligned.

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Hmm. Yeah. I think that works. Discuss soul stones, hint at news relating to some of the issues afflicting the Aeldari since the fall, and introduce Draylin while talking up our Aversion of Meros's doom.

I think they are the least important faction here for us.
Iyanden is pretty much just important for us because they have the easiest time getting Biel-Tan to fuck off, but I think Saim-Hann with their inclination towards fuck their group would be more than happy to help us to tell Biel-Tan to fuck off.

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It's less about Iyanden telling Beil-tan to fuck off, which we could accomplish easily with the backing of Saim-Han and Ulthwe, as it described in character creation, let alone after becoming the leader of the Adaptionists, and more about convincing Iyanden to reign them in and direct them at more suitable targets in general. It's not just us that Beil-tan has potential to harm after all.

They are weirdly enough one of the more important factions here, but they are also to gain the most from the reveal of the inner workings of the flaw as they can fine tune the paths.

That reveal and us sharing it might at least repair the relationship with Alaitoc a bit even if we don't like each other.

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Good point. That said, I'm having trouble thinking of what to say to them during there meeting. I think we should put them off to day too see what changes after day 1.

We will likely have some pretty strong cross-links to both factions so makes sense talking with at least one of these two. Saim-Hann faction might be best to start with to get our back against Biel-Tan fuckery.

Also our "own" faction getting them more organized and potentially directly introduce Ishari here would likely get them to centralise a bit more.

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Currently I'm in favor of talking to Iyanden in first block and Saim-han in the third block of the first day.

I've decided to be open minded about the middle block, but in general I think we should meet with either Ulthwe for discussion between our seer lord and there Farseer, or independents to swing them towards our alliance and Adaptionist alliances in general, though I'm willing to vote for meeting our faction and getting a feel for the group and identifying the major influences in it. I don't think a follow up on any of them is necessary, because Independents, Adaptionists and Survivalists are all groups we can expect to be most eager to work with us post reveal.

We can reserve the first day to keep friends close. Our own faction meeting, Samm-Hain, Harlequins.

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I think we should just leave time slots available for people to come meet us the second and third day and trust Harlequins to know whether it's important to talk.

Day 1,
block 1 we should talk to Iyanden as a sort of neutral allied with someone we want better restrained so they do less harm in the long run, not to us, but to the Aeldari in general.

block 2 we should meet with one of the three I talked about in the paragraphs after the the previous quote.

Block 3, Pay our respect to Saim-han, maybe invite them to visit the shrine of last hour.

 

[DarkLight140]

I think they are the least important faction here for us.
Iyanden is pretty much just important for us because they have the easiest time getting Biel-Tan to fuck off, but I think Saim-Hann with their inclination towards fuck their group would be more than happy to help us to tell Biel-Tan to fuck off.

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It's not clear to me if Iyanden is even aware that Biel-Tan was planning to slaughter our people in the first place- certainly Biel-Tan wouldn't have told them, and I can only imagine that Iyanden's seers are heavily overburdened with work at this point so they could easily have missed anything, all the more so if Kairos decided to block any visions they had of what Biel-Tan is up to so as to encourage the more antisocial of their activities. When we talk to Iyanden, actually telling them what we almost had happen should be at the very top of our agenda- because if they don't know that Biel-Tan needs to be held back they won't be doing any holding. Who knows what other slaughters Biel-Tan already managed to pull off without anyone noticing, attributing any deaths to the Fall?

Conveniently, this is a political issue that we can address pre-conference which does not require any early reveal of our research into the Curses and which will be reinforced, rather than undermined, as a point when that comes out later. It's a good way to productively spend a timeslot.

They are weirdly enough one of the more important factions here, but they are also to gain the most from the reveal of the inner workings of the flaw as they can fine tune the paths.

That reveal and us sharing it might at least repair the relationship with Alaitoc a bit even if we don't like each other.

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Since a large fraction of their faction is following Alaitoc because they offer an unquestionably effective solution to the current most obvious problem, if only a partial one, we can probably afford a bit of optimism here. That massive twenty-eight (!) Craftworld faction isn't made up largely of ideological hardliners, it's made up of pragmatists who were willing to bite the bullet on a radical social overhaul in order to get something that works. And when it comes to making it work, we are indeed doing the Asuryani a huge favor here by giving them critical data they can use to fine-tune their Paths system- they can probably adapt it to include mental exercises against Nurgle's side of the curse, for one, which is something that they've totally overlooked so far.

We should be trying to leverage that to gain as much friendliness and credibility from their faction as possible, because while Tyrellian Kulkessrin dislikes us (due to what's basically our error, as I understand it, since we didn't hold back on throwing a lot of insults his way when turning down the Paths system) he's the only one that does, and he's presented as willing to hold back for political reasons. If everyone else in his faction likes us, then he'll hold back against us until he can change their minds, since he won't want to spend influence that he doesn't have to when he's already asking a hell of a lot from all his followers by forcing the lifestyle sacrifices that the Paths demand. We can make a lot of friends here as long as we play things right.

Repairing the Alaitoc relationship proper rather than just doing a diplomatic offensive on their followers will be harder since it stems from a personal grudge, and I have doubts that Aresh-Vul, who was modeled on Feanor of all people, is particularly inclined to swallow his pride and apologize for throwing shade when that's the obvious necessary step one in getting Tyrellian Kulkessrin to put past grudges behind him. I'm not sure that we have an approach which would be in-character and bring about true rapprochement, so any ideas on that score would be welcome.

Also our "own" faction getting them more organized and potentially directly introduce Ishari here would likely get them to centralise a bit more.

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Agreed; directly introducing the Ishari to the other Adaptionists is high on the pre-conference to-do list. There is apparently a huge variety of possible solutions to the situation being thrown around, but it sounds like most Adaptionist groups are still in theoretical/planning phases when it comes to actually implementing such solutions; the Ishari are a working example of what can be done. It might not be one that any given group will like, but being able to show them off as a possible option that has already been implemented and is working is both a huge prestige booster and a practical aid as a point of reference for anyone else considering something along those lines.

Honestly, the same logic applies to introducing them to the Independents. Right now while most groups have priorities, Alaitoc and their paths are offering immediately working solutions, which means that everyone who is increasingly desperate is going to gravitate to the Asuryani. By showing off the Ishari we show that there is at least one other working solution available right now for anyone who is willing to take drastic action in order to escape the threat of soul-eating. It will immediately mark the Adaptionists out as a viable choice for future survival, if not a comfortable one for most.

We can reserve the first day to keep friends close. Our own faction meeting, Samm-Hain, Harlequins.

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Are the Harlequins someone that we can effectively talk to here? They have a presence, obviously, but they're not presented on the faction list except as a mention that they've been helping out the Adaptionists. Do they have a meaningful faction presence with prominent members present as a delegation or are they trying to stand as neutral? There was mention that they're at least here enough to make their displeasure known if someone tries something, but "we're acting as security" doesn't mean they've got someone able and willing to talk politics.

And even if we do manage to meet with someone significant within their leadership... what would we want to say and accomplish?

 

[Skjadir]

It's not clear to me if Iyanden is even aware that Biel-Tan was planning to slaughter our people in the first place- certainly Biel-Tan wouldn't have told them, and I can only imagine that Iyanden's seers are heavily overburdened with work at this point so they could easily have missed anything, all the more so if Kairos decided to block any visions they had of what Biel-Tan is up to so as to encourage the more antisocial of their activities. When we talk to Iyanden, actually telling them what we almost had happen should be at the very top of our agenda- because if they don't know that Biel-Tan needs to be held back they won't be doing any holding. Who knows what other slaughters Biel-Tan already managed to pull off without anyone noticing, attributing any deaths to the Fall?

Conveniently, this is a political issue that we can address pre-conference which does not require any early reveal of our research into the Curses and which will be reinforced, rather than undermined, as a point when that comes out later. It's a good way to productively spend a timeslot.

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Problem is that we have no direct proof that they wanted to do it apart from a vision.
It's why we didn't get a choice to talk with the other major craftworlds about this, before we got the curse information.

And Biel-Tan how is their direct ally will deny any knowledge of it or plans to do so.

 

[Randino Treviani]

Are the Harlequins someone that we can effectively talk to here? They have a presence, obviously, but they're not presented on the faction list except as a mention that they've been helping out the Adaptionists. Do they have a meaningful faction presence with prominent members present as a delegation or are they trying to stand as neutral? There was mention that they're at least here enough to make their displeasure known if someone tries something, but "we're acting as security" doesn't mean they've got someone able and willing to talk politics.

And even if we do manage to meet with someone significant within their leadership... what would we want to say and accomplish?

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I think the key is using a block on the second and third days to make ourselves available for people to come see. That way, if the Harlequin's want to talk to us, they can come and do so. I'm in favor of Block 1, day 2 and block 2 day 3 being made available for people to come talk to us if they want to.

 

[DarkLight140]

Problem is that we have no direct proof that they wanted to do it apart from a vision.
It's why we didn't get a choice to talk with the other major craftworlds about this.

And Biel-Tan how is their direct ally will deny any knowledge of it or plans to do so.

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Will they? Biel-Tan strike me as the kind of arrogant that would go "yeah, and they would have deserved it" if confronted on the matter before our reveal of the Curse research (after which even they will know admitting to planning our murder would be foolish).

And even if they go "nope, never happened, their seers are incompetent", Iyanden isn't made up entirely of suckers. They can scry the past to check on Biel-Tan's actions even if they can't check for future branches that never happened, so anything that's been done against others can be found. They can also keep an eye out in the future on a trust-but-verify principle, and if we tell them what we believe about Biel-Tan's previously planned actions then they will be more willing to as a political favor for us, post-Curse reveal.

Never mentioning anything about it will never gain us anything, at least. What's the downside to bringing it up?

 

[Skjadir]

Will they? Biel-Tan strike me as the kind of arrogant that would go "yeah, and they would have deserved it" if confronted on the matter before our reveal of the Curse research (after which even they will know admitting to planning our murder would be foolish).

And even if they go "nope, never happened, their seers are incompetent", Iyanden isn't made up entirely of suckers. They can scry the past to check on Biel-Tan's actions even if they can't check for future branches that never happened, so anything that's been done against others can be found. They can also keep an eye out in the future on a trust-but-verify principle, and if we tell them what we believe about Biel-Tan's previously planned actions then they will be more willing to as a political favor for us, post-Curse reveal.

Never mentioning anything about it will never gain us anything, at least. What's the downside to bringing it up?

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The problem is that Biel-Tan is for all their stupidity quite good at being politically savy in ways that allow them to get away with a lot of shit and not go over red lines where others can see them.

Us getting them to go mask off in front of everyone else would be a massive political win for us, but it's not something I think will happen.

For checking the past well they didn't attack us yet.
You would basically have to find a point where the Biel-Tan leadership openly talks and plans out how to wipe us out and then actually go for that, instead of it being contingency plan Z.X.A in case they need it because militaries like to plan out responses to pretty much everything they can come up with so they only have to pull out the folder and start moving.

For downside, not much but it is a slot we can use for other things that might be more productive than trying to get the Biel-Tan leader mad enough that he goes full mask off in front of everyone else (even if that is a very amusing thing to try for).

 

[Copperscale]

The problem with accusing biel tan based on seer derived information, is that our own findings about tzeentch's curse can be used to undermine it.

Sure, we can say that the curse isn't advanced enough yet to feed information, but we would have to prove it.

Which would take a lot of wind from our sails.

We need to give biel tan enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[Profilozof]

For checking the past well they didn't attack us yet.
You would basically have to find a point where the Biel-Tan leadership openly talks and plans out how to wipe us out and then actually go for that, instead of it being contingency plan Z.X.A in case they need it because militaries like to plan out responses to pretty much everything they can come up with so they only have to pull out the folder and start moving.

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I agree we need to let Biel-Tan clear act like assholes to us and others before we go to Iyanden to complain.

While all skill in hidding behind a mask of being civilised, Biel-Tan is very likely to try threaten Idependents and Adaptionists sooner rather than later, we should file the complaint to Iyanden then.

I think that meeting Iyanden during the 2nd day strike the balance between respect and allowing Vile-Tan to show their true face.

 

[Randino Treviani]

I agree we need to let Biel-Tan clear act like assholes to us and others before we go to Iyanden to complain.

While all skill in hidding behind a mask of being civilised, Biel-Tan is very likely to try threaten Idependents and Adaptionists sooner rather than later, we should file the complaint to Iyanden then.

I think that meeting Iyanden during the 2nd day strike the balance between respect and allowing Vile-Tan to show their true face.

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Or we could meet them day one for perfectly ordinary conversation and boasting about averting Meros doom, and then snitch Beil-Tan out at the end of day 3, giving Beil Tan the maximum time to make an ass of themselves and Leaving Iyanden still pissed off at them when the Aeldmoot proper starts.

 

[Draz]

If we want to expose Biel-Tan then we should talk to Saim-Hainn and the independents to collect testimony. Some of the exodites and indie craftworlds will have been attacked by BT or have also got visions about it.

 

[Alratan]

Just a thought, but presumably the leaders of the other Craftworlds aren't just sitting around doing nothing waiting to take our calls.

Do we also have to weigh up whether we think people will prioritise meeting us rather than other people?

For example, if we try to go and see Iyanden first on day 1 will we discover that they're busy in a meeting with Alaitoc all day, or even that Ulthwe has invited all the major craftworlds to sit down in private to try to agree some ground rules for the Aeldmoot?

We're not the only ones with agency here, presumably everyone else is also scrambling trying to maneuver for best advantage ahead of the opening of the conference. We're also probably not people's top priority at this point.

If we're prepared to privately reveal the Curses people will probably rearrange their schedule, but if not we're just one large craftworld amongst several, with no particular claim for preeminence.

If we want to expose Biel-Tan then we should talk to Saim-Hainn and the independents to collect testimony. Some of the exodites and indie craftworlds will have been attacked by BT or have also got visions about it.

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They may have, or they may not. I think we just don't know.

 

[Karnax626]

I feel like people are rushing a bit with what they want to achieve in these meetings, instead of using them to sound other factions out.

12 Hour Moratorium

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Is there any chance we can get a longer moratorium? Feels weird for it to be shorter than the last vote when this one's all write-ins.

 

[Profilozof]

Or we could meet them day one for perfectly ordinary conversation and boasting about averting Meros doom, and then snitch Beil-Tan out at the end of day 3, giving Beil Tan the maximum time to make an ass of themselves and Leaving Iyanden still pissed off at them when the Aeldmoot proper starts.

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I disagree while I do love fucking over Biel-Tan, letting them poison the well of opinion is not a good idea in long run; independents who are likely to be their main targets could either hate us, hate Iyanden and refuse help their really need from them, or hate any larger craftworld and seeing Biel-Tan in them. Of course, seeing Samm-Hain or us, talk to Iyanden and then Biel-Tan behaving would mostly lessen the aforementioned issues.

As for normal conversation? True enough, especially if the follow-up is us complaining about Biel-Tan, but the thing is that at least to me we have more important people to talk with on the first day, Ulthwe&Survivalists, who are almost guaranteed to go to Respected in a relationship with us following the reveal (who have retinue that we can easily talk with as we have counterparts and can plan to do smaller conference after the moot to talk big shop), other Adaptionists who we need to understand to present a semi-united front that to survive and prevent another fall Aeldari must adapt otherwise trying to left lasting legacy will be futile (and also people who we can make plans to add to our coalition and get an opinion that Biel-Tan sucks) and Samm-Hain&Exodites who respect us and who are vital for us, because they need to kick other Exodites not to be stagnant for mom and any slights like I don't know visiting their political rival before them when they are known for their stubbornness and willingness to hold grudges would cause problem with that (also another people who we can complain about Biel-Tan).

In general, my idea of a plan is as follows:

[] Plan: This will be the day
-[ ] First Block: Meeting with adaptionists, trying to check who is doing what and which solutions are not mutually exclusive, seeing who is the leading voice among us and if there isn't one, try to become one if only so other factions may see adaption and teamwork between different ideas as something that can be done.
-[ ] Second Block: Meeting Survivalists, try to get to know them and leave good impression as well as talk about the possibility of a multiparty talking shops about trying to raise standards of Seers and common trappings (Eldrad and Draylin, tease the stupid pigeon being involved), which solutions to blessing-based shields not longer working are best/viable for the given size of Craftworld's shipyard capacity and general changes to navy doctrine (Zashid and Yranne Kal&Xenael Wraev, as well as with the death of Mathlann, Khaine probably now holds power over the navy, tease us respecting Khaine which would mean that he must have done something that our allies feel free to give some kind of respect to him with us in the same room), how the return of scarcity is being dealt with in craftworlds and how Isha would want her kids not to starve (Tiraekr and Irsfeial&Amar-Ithil, also tease of Isha being important), and honestly talk between Aresh-Vul and Garin Yn'resh about Petalcutter, because priest of Vaul not asking about the sword and reasons why it "woke up" would be strange. Obviously, people should mingle even with people who aren't their main focus as they are all somewhat connected, but this is a general plan.
-[ ] Third Block: Meet Saim-Hann & Exodites & the Conservationists, give them the respect they deserve, see how the fall impacted them, how they are adapting their plan to work with most of the gods dead (make them semi-alert for when we reveal the curse of Nurgle during the moot proper), try to have pleasant last meeting, gather complaints about Biel-Tan, give Saim-Hann a forewarning that we probably will try talking with Iyanden about Biel-Tan being an asshole relatively soon.

 

[BeepSmile]

Things I'd like to see (if Biel-Tsn weren't assholes):

Full sharing of non-exotic tech. And even then, the exotic limitation is only because of the time it takes to train people/build facilities.

Full sharing of webway maps/scouting and general realspace scouting data.[1]
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Things I want to see regardless of the fact Biel-Tan are assholes:

If anyone has working examples of how to make daemon killing weapons, or partial examples, an inter-craftworld/exodite research team on how to make more.

Somehow I think that this'll propsal will be easily accepted, if raised just after we reveal that Isha is imprisoned.
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[1] Maybe this sort of thing might be worth setting up with fellow radicals/others who dislike Biel-Tan?

 

[Alratan]

Even if Biel Tan are assholes, as long as the other major powers are stopping them being assholes to other Eldar I think full tech sharing with everyone is a good idea.

It's just simpler, and it avoids the risk of them trying to steal the tech from someone we give it to and so risk provoking a conflict we want to avoid.

As long as they're not attacking us or our allies then I don't think that what tech Biel Tan has matters.

It also makes us look like the better person, if we're generous and helpful despite past conflicts, and would probably make us look better in 3rd parties eyes as it's a sign we're trying to do the right thing and have all Eldar work together to defeat the Curse.

And if we do one day want to free Isha, a more powerful Biel Tan is in everyone's interests, as they're the most militant craft world so might bring her biggest army, so them having better tech will make the biggest absolute difference.

If we use this logic, that we're even prepared to help near enemies as long as it makes it more likely we'll save Isha and beat the Curses, I think the Harlequins, Ulthwe, and Iyanden in particular will approve. It's a strong message that we consider factionalism to be a distant second to victory over Chaos.

As a side note, I've just seen that Asurmen and Jain Zar come from the same core, now crone world that Biel Tan comes from.

 

[Skjadir]

Hm, day one being the meet and greet day, I would go for our own faction, the independents.
Get our own part more organised / hardened against poaching and maybe draw in independents.

Then it's either Saim-Hann & Exodites / the Conservationists or Ulthwe / the Survivalists.
Slightly leaning towards Saim-Hann as they are pretty much our allies already and having some plan for both of us to follow for the rest of the diplomacy parts would be very useful.

Full sharing of non-exotic tech. And even then, the exotic limitation is only because of the time it takes to train people/build facilities.

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Kind of dead for at least 20 turns due to the amount of resources that needs to be put into just getting the production of one running, and then you also need to teach how to use said resources to actually build the domain era weapons with it.

Pretty sure people underestimate hard just how much AP that would eat (and we are already hard-pressed for the AP we do have)

 

[Alratan]

Another thought. Do we need to warn everyone not to scry each other as soon as possible? It would presumably be normal for the Eldar to have seers investigate the potential moves that their rivals might make.

Kind of dead for at least 20 turns due to the amount of resources that needs to be put into just getting the production of one running, and then you also need to teach how to use said resources to actually build the domain era weapons with it.

Pretty sure people underestimate hard just how much AP that would eat (and we are already hard-pressed for the AP we do have)

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It's the kind of thing we can suggest as a potential future option if the initial tech sharing goes well for a century.

I do want to spread knowledge or how to make the exotics widely, as a backup in case we're attacked and damaged, but that has to be a long term plan, as you say.

 

[Copperscale]

[] Plan: This will be the day

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I like this plan, though maybe we should collect complaints about Biel-Tan from the adaptationists as well?
They're likely in the same boat as us with them, just lower on the prio list.

Then if we have a pile of Biel-Tan complaints, we present them all to Iyanden, phrased along the lines of "I know they're your friend, but they're toxic, and they're going to bring you down with them"

 

[Alratan]

Thinking of the Revanchists more generally, I'm not sure what net impact our news will have on them.

What we've learned shows that they (probably only almost certainly, given this is a setting with time travel) can't precisely recreate the Eldar Dominion; that doesn't mean they can't create an Eldar Dominion. It'll just be different to what came before, although how different isn't yet clear.

I suspect that they'll rapidly pivot to that approach.

If they do, then in some ways we've helped them. Their old plan seems to have been this.

1: Fight Chaos
2: …
3: Profit!

With the information we've brought they can fill in the …s. They can go to potential allies and propose freeing Isha and establishing a new Phoenix Court in exile that the Eldar are sworn to or somesuch. It's be very hard, but it's a much easier sell than '…' when they try to recruit potential allies to their cause.

I suspect that's why they have so few allies, because they couldn't previously come up with a plausible way to reach their goal.

Particularly as everyone will want to free Isha anyway.

I like this plan, though maybe we should collect complaints about Biel-Tan from the adaptationists as well?
They're likely in the same boat as us with them, just lower on the prio list.

Then if we have a pile of Biel-Tan complaints, we present them all to Iyanden, phrased along the lines of "I know they're your friend, but they're toxic, and they're going to bring you down with them"

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Do we want to completely alienate Iyanden from Biel Tan though? Arguably we want them to stay close so that Iyanden can better influence Biel Tan and persuade them to focus on more appropriate targets than other Eldar.

In the long run, we may well need Biel Tan's military strength, as long as it's pointed at our enemies.

They're massive assholes, but as long as they're stopped from being assholes to us or people we care about, they can stay out of sight and out of mind.

Biel Tan may want to mess with us, but that doesn't oblige us to spend time or political capital messing with them.

Us ignoring them as not worth our time may gall them more than anything else.

 

[Profilozof]

I like this plan, though maybe we should collect complaints about Biel-Tan from the adaptationists as well?
They're likely in the same boat as us with them, just lower on the prio list.

Then if we have a pile of Biel-Tan complaints, we present them all to Iyanden, phrased along the lines of "I know they're your friend, but they're toxic, and they're going to bring you down with them"

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Good point. I think that Biel-Tan talk with Iyanden should be more like "I know that you want to get the stability and protection of dominion back, but Biel-Tan want just the power."

Sidenote, if not for us bringing the news of Isha's survival, I am sure that Aeldmoot would be known as trial of Biel-Tan.

What we've learned shows that they (probably only almost certainly, given this is a setting with time travel) can't precisely recreate the Eldar Dominion; that doesn't mean they can't create an Eldar Dominion. It'll just be different to what came before, although how different isn't yet clear.

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Oh, I am sure that Iyanden was planning on that in the first place, but Biel-Tan? I can see a bad roll for them become a moment when they split from Iyanden (who I still think will get the most power from independents).

Is there any chance we can get a longer moratorium? Feels weird for it to be shorter than the last vote when this one's all write-ins.

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I think that a shorter moratorium makes sense because the pre-meetings won't do much, but I agree that the moratorium could be extended by 2-4 hours if only so people who were sleeping when the update dropped and were later at work could have their chance at the mic.

 

[Niksol]

We should use the opportunity to make the eldar United Nations. An arena to come together and solve problems. Starting with immediate mutual non-agression pacts; no eldar should kill another when the soul of the dying feeds the great enemy. And immediate food aid to all who needs it.

Probably ambitious, but...

 

[Durin]

Another thought. Do we need to warn everyone not to scry each other as soon as possible? It would presumably be normal for the Eldar to have seers investigate the potential moves that their rivals might make.

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thinking of this
you know how much we are making decisions based on Biel-Tan coming to attack us
something that our seers foresaw
yeah, we might need to consider that

 

[vsh]

I think it's not a plan vote, but if it was, I'd do this:

[] Plan Friends Come First
-[] Assemble the Adaptionists
--[] Agenda: get to know them better, show off our bling and allies, establish ourselves as the faction thought leaders
-[] Meet Durran Fellwinter of Samm-Hain
--[] Agenda: affirm them as the foremost Major Craftworld for us, find out what it'd take for them to enter a mutual defense pact
-[] Keep a slot open for people who are our friends or want to be our friends. If Harlequins want to take this slot of shove someone in this slot, prioritize them.
--[] Agenda: let's find out how we can help each other

 

[Alratan]

I'm not sure that the Adaptionists are coherent enough to have thought leaders, as they may be a bit of the 'none of the above' category. If all they can agree on is that things need to change, that can mean very many and quite possibly radically contradictory things.

It could be like trying to make a faction of communists; libertarian anarchists, and neo-monarchists on the basis that they all oppose the current system. It's possible that they disagree with each other more than they disagree with members of the other factions.

Oh, I am sure that Iyanden was planning on that in the first place, but Biel-Tan? I can see a bad roll for them become a moment when they split from Iyanden (who I still think will get the most power from independents).

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I wonder what a good result would look like for Biel Tan?

It's pretty unlikely, but our best case is that some of their dickishness was a displacement activity to distract themselves from the fact that they had no idea whatsoever how to achieve their goals, so they were desperately flailing around picking fights to avoid acknowledging that fact.

If we're lucky enough for that to be the case, if they can be shown a series of steps they can actually take that would take them closer to it, they may stop what they're currently doing and pivot to focus on that.

For example; if they can be persuaded that Isha being rescued is a critical, very challenging but potentially achievable step towards the birth of a new Dominion, but one the Eldar aren't currently strong enough to manage, it may be possible to convince them to conserve rather than fritter away their strength, to focus on a military buildup of the total strength of the Eldar as a whole.

As I say, unlikely, but perhaps Iyanden could persuade them.

thinking of this
you know how much we are making decisions based on Biel-Tan coming to attack us
something that our seers foresaw
yeah, we might need to consider that

Click to shrink...

I'm assuming we're right that the Curse isn't strong enough yet to falsify visions, although it would certainly be a cunning, Tzeentch style plan within a plan to layer the Curse so that whenever it is discovered it looks like it's not strong enough yet, when it actually is, to prevent the Eldar doubting already falsified visions, as a fall back.

 

[Copperscale]

It's a longshot, but I want to court Iyanden into leading the Adaptationists.

Their defining feature is Hope.

But we have proof that they are hoping for something impossible (the gods smiling at the Aeldari again), and we have the documentation to prove it.
But along with that bad news, we bring a (smaller) spark of hope, and an actionable, if extremely dangerous plan.

Our "faction" does not yet have a leader, and are a hodgepodge of craftworlds that think they have a plan. There is not much else that unites us.

A major craftworld would be shoe in for that leadership role.
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At this stage, the biggest difficulty to that plan is Alaitoc snowballing and absorbing the Revanchists, because they have a solution that works immediately.