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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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DB_Explorer said:
Thought brought on by Kaizuki mentioning Niko might not condone our means of holding her

[Q] Let Hijiri Go
-[Q] Telepathy her that you doubt Niko would approve of what we would need to do to hold her

random thought from the night watch....
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Why stop here?

[Q] Describe in excruciating detail your every idea about neutralizing Hijiri.
-[Q] Let Airi listen in.
 
Kaizuki said:
But... we can't talk to her then? Am I missing something? I've been monofocusing on Hijiri on the assumption that anything to do with Anri was less important as long as it involved attacking her.
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Well, no. This is something I've realized these past few days: We try to 'Social' too hard at inappropriate times.

We try to do too much at the same time, we try to solve everything too perfectly too quickly. This flustercuck right now is an example.

Once we capture Anri, we're gonna have to deal with the repercussions of losing Hijiri; we need to focus that time on the Pleiades, on Niko who's gonna react badly... and on everyone else who's gonna react badly.

What's more, right after we beat Anri, she's gonna be at her worst. That's really no time to talk. That's the moment where you drop one liners, not The Social. ;)

Furthermore, I want to actually share and ask opinions of others before trying talk sense into Anri; in this case, that means Oriko, since she's one of the only Witchbombed meguca on the team. That and I want Oriko to have a role in the team, and she's a Socialguca, not a Combatguca.

Furtherfurthermore, Anri's gonna need some time to calm the hell down. We'll need a Privacy Field for that, to stop her from telepathying things nobody should hear.

TL;DR: My idea for how to deal with Anri.

-Knock her out cold as quickly as possible: She needs to be prevented from talking and telepathying because Witchbomb threat; furthermore, once she's down, her words will be her only weapon, so the chances of bomb dropping increase dramatically. (Furtherfurthermore, she is never actually defeated in PMKM, so we don't know how she'd react to that).

--Before knocking her out, if very appropriate, say something... but don't take long; Anri will be super mad then, and in no state to be Social'd.

-Deal with the Pleiades and Hijiri. Anri can wait.

-Anri will need time to cool down and accept her defeat. Pretty much literally go through the stages of grief until she's ready to talk. This means she needs to be awake. Due to possible bomb drops, this needs to happen in a Privacy Field; someone will have to watch her; we should ask Kirika to make some antimagic handcuffs or something, for safety.

--So Anri should be woken up only once we can actually put this much attention on her for an extended period of time.

-Once Anri is ready to talk, we talk.

-- Before this, consult with Oriko: Actually share the details we know, and ask if she's got her own idea about how to deal with Anri. Even ask if she wants to try her hand at it, instead of us. Try to cement Oriko's position on the team as the Social Advisor.



(As an aside, if we could go back to the moment we decided to take Hijiri along on the hunt, I'd now try and push for leaving her under guard, probably with Oriko and Kirika, for antimagic and possible Social; if Sayaka's/Kazumi's copied Shadow Grief constructs are not range limited, we could have left them on a Privacy Sphere to avoid Hijiri from telepathying Anri.)


Kaizuki said:
See, the point of this is that virtually everything negative about Niko that Hijiri believes is sourced from Kyubey. I... honestly, I don't like the "she has to work for it" business, because Hijiri's belief is that she can't reconcile staying in her life as she wants with Niko's existence going by what she's heard. The only work she can do there is... violent.
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I don't really know what to say to Hijiri, but the idea is that she can do work non violently... if she does it right, if she actually tries to solve her problems.

Instead of, you know, being a child and wanting to punch/magic her problems into submission. Or running away. :V
 
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Onmur said:
Well, no. This is something I've realized these past few days: We try to 'Social' too hard at inappropriate times.

We try to do too much at the same time, we try to solve everything too perfectly too quickly. This flustercuck right now is an example.
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*considers thread*

Nope can't argue this. Do you think this occurs due to the fact that as a thread/Quest we can stand off to the side and comment on situations while lacking IDK... more subtle social cues that in real life might tell some of us when to and when not to social?

also what I'm getting from your plan is

[Q] Knock Anri out cold
-[Q] Turn back to Hijiri and try to social her

which just leaves me picturing Sabrina going 'hold on a sec' proceeding to do a lot of violence then turning back to the matter at hand like nothing happened.
 
If we snatch Hijiri's gem while she's teleporting, we'll not keep her from teleporting. She'll teleport and drop dead somewhere we have no idea where to look and no way to track her body.

Even if you do want to gem her for a period of time for some reason, you should still make your one action before she teleports an interruption in her focus so she doesn't teleport. So you have a body if you decide to ungem her at some point.
 
DB_Explorer said:
*considers thread*

Nope can't argue this. Do you think this occurs due to the fact that as a thread/Quest we can stand off to the side and comment on situations while lacking IDK... more subtle social cues that in real life might tell some of us when to and when not to social?

also what I'm getting from your plan is

[Q] Knock Anri out cold
-[Q] Turn back to Hijiri and try to social her

which just leaves me picturing Sabrina going 'hold on a sec' proceeding to do a lot of violence then turning back to the matter at hand like nothing happened.
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Well, Hijiri would be gone. We'd be trying to Social her through telepathy, and dealing with the fallout of her getting away, with the Pleiades.

Also,

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 5206

On to why we have this problem with Social... Maybe it's the IC/OOC, maybe many of us tend to skip all the steps of dealing with Grief :V, I don't really know.

People need time to deal with shit, and we usually don't give it to them.

For us, we're like, "Hey look! This is a Clear Seed, it lasts decades, so the Grief Seed problem is solved, yay!"

While the megucas are "My whole life turns around collecting Grief Seeds to survive; I can't deal with this change."

And maybe, if we gave them like, fifteen minutes, they wouldn't come to resent us so much when we insist. And boy, do we insist. :p
 
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Well, I buy the "we time social stupidly" business. So... Knock out Anri and go meet up with the Pleiades to discuss Hijiri? I really like that plan tbh.

Alterations in yellow.

[X] Let Hijiri go.
-[X] ... unless Mami can stop her with ribbons, in which case, emphatically do not stop Mami from stopping Hijiri with ribbons. (If this happens, immediately break to voting. Absolutely no pauses.)
-[X] Reply to Hijiri via telepathy: I think you'll find that the "can's" and "cant's" of the world are very different from how Kyubey would imply them to be. Lying by omission has been the majority of his job since before the dawn of history, not that he'd characterize it that way.

[X] Take down and capture Anri ASAP.
-[X] Use overwhelming speed, force, and defense (solid Grief). Accept Mami's support.
-[X] Mami stays out of hearing range.
--[X] Knock Anri out.

[X] Telepathy the Pleiades, Sayaka, Mami: Hijiri, it would seem, has the entire powerset, including teleportation and fast transit. Why she didn't just break that out the first time you have no idea, but you completely failed to anticipate it and you had no way to stop her without excessive force, which... you don't think Niko would have wanted. Anri is caught and has the clear seed with her.
-[X] Meet up? Anri will keep but you should probably discuss Hijiri.
 
[X] Kaizuki
Kaizuki said:
[X] Telepathy the Pleiades, Sayaka, Mami: Hijiri, it would seem, has the entire powerset, including teleportation and fast transit. Why she didn't just break that out the first time you have no idea, but you completely failed to anticipate it and you had no way to stop her without excessive force, which... you don't think Niko would have wanted. Anri is caught and has the clear seed with her.
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Is this particular point supposed to happen simultaneously with letting Hijiri go, after that but before Anri, or after dealing with Anri?

Also, can't we tell others about Hijiri escaping in-between that and engaging Hijiri? I know it isn't gonna take a minute but it's a situation where immediate warning about Hijiri being at large might be a crucial detail.
Adhoc vote count started by Faraway-R on Dec 13, 2017 at 11:57 AM, finished with 393 posts and 46 votes.
  • [X] Let Hijiri go.
    -[X] ... unless Mami can stop her with ribbons, in which case, emphatically do not stop Mami from stopping Hijiri with ribbons. (If this happens, immediately break to voting. Absolutely no pauses.)
    -[X] Reply to Hijiri via telepathy: I think you'll find that the "can's" and "cant's" of the world are very different from how Kyubey would imply them to be. Lying by omission has been the majority of his job since before the dawn of history, not that he'd characterize it that way.
    [X] Take down and capture Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Use overwhelming speed, force, and defense (solid Grief). Accept Mami's support.
    -[X] Mami stays out of hearing range.
    --[X] Knock Anri out.
    [X] Telepathy the Pleiades, Sayaka, Mami: Hijiri, it would seem, has the entire powerset, including teleportation and fast transit. Why she didn't just break that out the first time you have no idea, but you completely failed to anticipate it and you had no way to stop her without excessive force, which... you don't think Niko would have wanted. Anri is caught and has the clear seed with her.
    -[X] Meet up? Anri will keep but you should probably discuss Hijiri.
    [x] So she's giving up because her perfect life can't be handed to her on a platter? It'd be ironic if it weren't so pathetic. She needs to try harder if she wants to achieve her goals.
    [x] After that, broadcast, including to Hijiri: Let her go. She's not going to try anything.
    [x] Hand tracking of Anri off to another sensor suite - grief telescope, more focused Mami ribbons, something else - and disconnect so Mami can start getting back up to speed.
    [x] Fade back to buy time.
    [x] Tell the Pleiades to form a perimeter.
    [X] One action: Take Hijiri's Gem.
    -[X] If she's still in range afterwards, restrain her.
    -[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [x] Gem her
    [X] Fully encase her in Grief, pulling from all of the Grief that's immediately available closest to her. Yank her Soul Gem--though don't take it out of range. She'll only lose the connection if she teleports out herself.
    [x] "I think I was also created by someone's wish, Hijiri. I was hoping we'd be able to connect over that. Please stay and we can work this out together"
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] null
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] Cause Hijiri physical pain.
    -[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] Any vote that doesn't involve deliberately hurting a 14 year old girl.
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Faraway-R said:
Also, can't we tell others about Hijiri escaping in-between that and engaging Hijiri? I know it isn't gonna take a minute but it's a situation where immediate warning about Hijiri being at large might be a crucial detail.
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If Hijiri attacks the Pleiades I would want a break to voting and the subsequent vote would be "Prima Luce bodykill Anri, figure out whether you can gem Hijiri without Homura or if you need to call Homura in temporarily."

All indications are that Hijiri means to flee, not to re-engage the Pleiades. It wouldn't be consistent with the model and it... I mean... It's not going to happen. That's something Anri would do, not Hijiri.

I don't think the delay between Hijiri leaving and us capturing Anri will be significant. It's going to look something like "solid grief consolidates around Sabrina and she then accelerates directly at Anri, burying her in a tidal wave of grief. Two seconds later Mami buries Anri in ribbons and we knock her out."

That said, I would like telepathying Hijiri to occur in simultaneity with us going ham on Anri. I think the "ASAP" in that line is sufficient indication for that, but otherwise I could trade it for a "Simultaneously:".
 
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Kaizuki said:
If Hijiri attacks the Pleiades I would want a break to voting and the subsequent vote would be "Prima Luce bodykill Anri, figure out whether you can gem Hijiri without Homura or if you need to call Homura in temporarily."

All indications are that Hijiri means to flee, not to re-engage the Pleiades. It wouldn't be consistent with the model and it... I mean... It's not going to happen. That's something Anri would do, not Hijiri.

I don't think the delay between Hijiri leaving and us capturing Anri will be significant. It's going to look something like "solid grief consolidates around Sabrina and she then accelerates directly at Anri, burying her in a tidal wave of grief. Two seconds later Mami buries Anri in ribbons and we knock her out."

That said, I would like telepathying Hijiri to occur in simultaneity with us going ham on Anri. I think the "ASAP" in that line is sufficient indication for that, but otherwise I could trade it for a "Simultaneously:".
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My request has a little bit more to deal with concerns as following:

1) If the Pleiades start looking around sooner, they might spot Hijiri through chance if she's teleporting near them
2) On the off chance Hijiri decides to make one last raid on the Pleiades' stockpiles, this might be an advance warning

I don't think either of these will happen, but I'd like to cover bases. Pale orange line as suggestion:

[ ] Let Hijiri go.
-[ ] ... unless Mami can stop her with ribbons, in which case, emphatically do not stop Mami from stopping Hijiri with ribbons. (If this happens, immediately break to voting. Absolutely no pauses.)
-[ ] Reply to Hijiri via telepathy: I think you'll find that the "can's" and "cant's" of the world are very different from how Kyubey would imply them to be. Lying by omission has been the majority of his job since before the dawn of history, not that he'd characterize it that way.
-[ ] Immedialtely after Hijiri escapes: warn Pleiades and Mikunis Hijiri escaped.
 
I think that we have to handle telling the Pleiades a bit more carefully. Announcing it like that is going to hurt Niko a bit. I'm not sure what the right thing is there.
 
Faraway-R said:
My request has a little bit more to deal with concerns as following:

1) If the Pleiades start looking around sooner, they might spot Hijiri through chance if she's teleporting near them
2) On the off chance Hijiri decides to make one last raid on the Pleiades' stockpiles, this might be an advance warning

I don't think either of these will happen, but I'd like to cover bases. Pale orange line as suggestion:

[ ] Let Hijiri go.
-[ ] ... unless Mami can stop her with ribbons, in which case, emphatically do not stop Mami from stopping Hijiri with ribbons. (If this happens, immediately break to voting. Absolutely no pauses.)
-[ ] Reply to Hijiri via telepathy: I think you'll find that the "can's" and "cant's" of the world are very different from how Kyubey would imply them to be. Lying by omission has been the majority of his job since before the dawn of history, not that he'd characterize it that way.
-[ ] Immedialtely after Hijiri escapes: warn Pleiades and Mikunis Hijiri escaped.
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I am not going to add this because it gives an opening for mass negative reaction from the Pleiades which is exactly what so many people, including myself, have spent most of this vote trying to avoid. By opening with "well shit, Hijiri can teleport, why the fuck wasn't she using that earlier?", the vote as-is blunts any opportunity for that sort of thing. Adding this line completely destroys that effect.

There is a chance Hijiri will be noticed, yes. I believe it's small and hope it won't happen, but really, in the end, A) Anri is bearing down on us, B) I believe our opening line should still be the one as-is even if Hijiri is seen -- a flat "Hijiri escaped" is a (temporary, but still) disaster.

One option is to split the current "Telepathy Pleiades" into a "Hijiri stuff: now" followed by a "one moment please" followed by "Anri down." I honestly don't think the risk is meaningful and the vote bloat is meh.
 
I am now a step closer to having a thing that will make me more like Mami-chan.
You see, in the mail arrived a long, tubular package. In this package was a barrel. A rifled barrel. Chambered to the same caliber (9mm) as the bullet mold I already own. The rest I think I can make myself.
Percussion lock musket, here I come!
 
Script Mak3r said:
I am now a step closer to having a thing that will make me more like Mami-chan.
You see, in the mail arrived a long, tubular package. In this package was a barrel. A rifled barrel. Chambered to the same caliber (9mm) as the bullet mold I already own. The rest I think I can make myself.
Percussion lock musket, here I come!
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Click to shrink...

Nice. I got a muzzleloader rifle this year for deer hunting, but it's a modern design, not a replica of a period gun.
 
Script Mak3r said:
I am now a step closer to having a thing that will make me more like Mami-chan.
You see, in the mail arrived a long, tubular package. In this package was a barrel. A rifled barrel. Chambered to the same caliber (9mm) as the bullet mold I already own. The rest I think I can make myself.
Percussion lock musket, here I come!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You'll put your eye out;)

Joking, but do be careful.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Dec 15, 2017 at 10:19 AM, finished with 439 posts and 46 votes.
  • [X] Let Hijiri go.
    -[X] ... unless Mami can stop her with ribbons, in which case, emphatically do not stop Mami from stopping Hijiri with ribbons. (If this happens, immediately break to voting. Absolutely no pauses.)
    -[X] Reply to Hijiri via telepathy: I think you'll find that the "can's" and "cant's" of the world are very different from how Kyubey would imply them to be. Lying by omission has been the majority of his job since before the dawn of history, not that he'd characterize it that way.
    [X] Take down and capture Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Use overwhelming speed, force, and defense (solid Grief). Accept Mami's support.
    -[X] Mami stays out of hearing range.
    --[X] Knock Anri out.
    [X] Telepathy the Pleiades, Sayaka, Mami: Hijiri, it would seem, has the entire powerset, including teleportation and fast transit. Why she didn't just break that out the first time you have no idea, but you completely failed to anticipate it and you had no way to stop her without excessive force, which... you don't think Niko would have wanted. Anri is caught and has the clear seed with her.
    -[X] Meet up? Anri will keep but you should probably discuss Hijiri.
    [x] So she's giving up because her perfect life can't be handed to her on a platter? It'd be ironic if it weren't so pathetic. She needs to try harder if she wants to achieve her goals.
    [x] After that, broadcast, including to Hijiri: Let her go. She's not going to try anything.
    [x] Hand tracking of Anri off to another sensor suite - grief telescope, more focused Mami ribbons, something else - and disconnect so Mami can start getting back up to speed.
    [x] Fade back to buy time.
    [x] Tell the Pleiades to form a perimeter.
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [x] Gem her
    [X] Fully encase her in Grief, pulling from all of the Grief that's immediately available closest to her. Yank her Soul Gem--though don't take it out of range. She'll only lose the connection if she teleports out herself.
    [x] "I think I was also created by someone's wish, Hijiri. I was hoping we'd be able to connect over that. Please stay and we can work this out together"
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] null
    [X] Cause Hijiri physical pain.
    -[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] Any vote that doesn't involve deliberately hurting a 14 year old girl.
Click to expand...
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
You'll put your eye out;)

Joking, but do be careful.
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Don't worry, my plan for the first tests is to do so from behind cover. First test, to make sure it doesn't just blow up (and before I've spent the time making the trigger mechanism) will probably involve a fuse, and the percussion cap tests will no doubt include a long string tied to the trigger. Likely helping with the first point (whether or not it can handle the stresses) is that it's fairly small; 9mm is a handgun caliber.

Wonder if Mami had to take such precautions with her muskets...
 
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