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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Can we please let Nadia and the Shiogama girls know of the hiccup in our meet up already? Why are we procrastinating so hard on this?
 
Okay, finally got some time to write a vote. Let's get this show on the road.

[] Simultaneously: Mami
-[] In a minute? You want to talk Hijiri into a state where she won't try to backstab you while you're distracted
-[] Discuss Hijiri's state of mind, ask for more advice

[] Simultaneously: Homura, Nadia, Sayaka
-[] Apologize to Nadia for being a bad host.
-[] Explain the situation.
-[] Don't let her try to help - You have it under control and the girls she's bringing need peace and quiet more than anything.

[] Simultaneously: Oriko
-[] Implement Mami's suggestion - explain your problem, ask for some seer mysteriosity.

[] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[] Goals
--[] Be empathybrina
--[] Get too distracted to exploit your slight distractedness.
-[] Potential specifics:
--[] Ask her what she's thinking about.

[] Ribbons.
-[] Goals
--[] Find Yuuri first - the less Pleiades exposure the better.
--[] Soul-snugggles with mami <3
--[] Don't get backstabbed.

@Firnagzen, To see if I can head off a debate: How distracting is the ribbon thing for Sabrina?
 
So, a (faux edit: another) vote proposal:

[] Multitask: Nadia
-[] Notify her Homura, and possibly Sayaka, will likely be meeting them as you and Mami were called out for an emergency.
--[] You should still be able to talk over telepathy if needed.

Simple enough: Nadia needs to be informed and we can multitask so we can keep talking to her and the Shiogama Girls as long as we don't bring up a telepathy blocker. Might also fit in filling her in if I can wrangle the space

[] Multitask: Oriko
-[] Consult with her on how to keep people safe from infohazards.

Simple, barebones, as suggested by Mami in the update. Could be expanded with some efficiency updating.

[] Hijiri
-[] Goals: Gain her trust, give her therapy, learn more of her motivations.
-[] Potential Specifics (go for less sensitive issues first)
--[] How is she holding up; is anything troubling her?
--[] Worried about Anri?
--[] About Niko?
--[] What Hijiri wants to do once this is over.

Significant Onmur cribbing for this block, but I agree with the spirit of it.

--[] Privately: How much did Anri tell her about her past, and in how much detail?
--[] She talked earlier like she was still in contact with Anri.

Question for this: What exactly are we aiming going for with confronting Hijiri about this? @AuraTwilight I'd particularly be interested in your take given that I'm inclined to think your "she might be talking Anri down" is a worthwhile thing to pursue and should be gone after first and foremost since making other guesses precludes making that one later.

Depending on the answer: I might include something like:
---[] Do not speak of intercepting her telepathy, go off of conversational clues.

[] Searching
- [] Conventional searching, per Kazumi's directive, until you can trust Hijiri.

Per earlier debate.
 
Alright. I even got inside an archive
Vebyast.github? Hmm.

Actually, was UKG in the show every Witch ever?
Or was she more like: at the end of the time, all the Witches will become one.
Because if it's the first, then the theory is plausible.
Mami's and Homura's memories, also Sayaka. And Kyouko. They would not become a part of UKG otherwise, so we wouldn't have had their memories.
Like, at all.
Bah. I feel like I'm inside a labyrinth made of mirrors, and behind every corner there's Firn politely sipping tea and saying "All in good time, my friends." Instead of say, maniacally laughing.
Which makes it even worse.

Vebyast's looking good. Their vote, I mean.
We don't have time exactly to engage in therapy.
Besides, being "empathybrina" never failed us.
At least, not too badly.
 
Appletank said:
Not confirmed, but there have been some ... heated theory crafting a few weeks ago. Check the link in my sig, "Firn is a precog hoebag piece of shit"
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Quick question: What exactly is a Doppel? The thing that Sayaka apparently pulled in Rebellion of transcending her despair and summoning her Witch to fight alongside her? If yes, can we call it a Persona instead? (The last one's halfserious, I'm just inordinately fascinated by the idea of a crossover between PMMM and Persona. And Black Rock Shooter, for that matter.)


Regarding Hijiri's covert telepathy, a good way to go about it might be 'So just out of curiosity, what have you been talking about with Anri anyway?' after all the other, more relaxing topics.
Shows that we knew all along, but are not judging her for it, while at the same time asking the question in a way that puts her off-balance and increases the chance that she'll have answered honestly on sheer reflex before she had time to think about how to spin her answer, and after we've had the opportunity to get a friendly conversation going.
 
Votes seem mostly complete and fine...
Vebyast said:
--[] Get too distracted to exploit your slight distractedness.
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What is this, though? I don't get it.

veB said:
[] Simultaneously: Mami
-[] In a minute? You want to talk Hijiri into a state where she won't try to backstab you while you're distracted
-[] Discuss Hijiri's state of mind, ask for more advice

[] Simultaneously: Homura, Nadia, Sayaka
-[] Apologize to Nadia for being a bad host.
-[] Explain the situation.
-[] Don't let her try to help - You have it under control and the girls she's bringing need peace and quiet more than anything.

[] Simultaneously: Oriko
-[] Implement Mami's suggestion - explain your problem, ask for some seer mysteriosity.

[] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[] Goals
--[] Be empathybrina
--[] Get too distracted to exploit your slight distractedness.
-[] Potential specifics:
--[] Ask her what she's thinking about.

[] Ribbons.
-[] Goals
--[] Find Yuuri first - the less Pleiades exposure the better.
--[] Soul-snugggles with mami <3
--[] Don't get backstabbed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To this I'd add more specifics about what to try and talk with Hijiri, and the goal would be to get some sort of agreement out of Hijiri to cooperate; give us a chance; to trust us; etc.. Try to get her onboard for real; give her a good reason to really cut ties with Airi if that's what she's thinking. Pacify her urges to do violence on us and run away.

I think we can accomplish all that by reaching an agreement. To an extent.

The Phoenixian said:
[] Multitask: Nadia
-[] Notify her Homura, and possibly Sayaka, will likely be meeting them as you and Mami were called out for an emergency.
--[] You should still be able to talk over telepathy if needed.

[] Multitask: Oriko
-[] Consult with her on how to keep people safe from infohazards.

[] Hijiri
-[] Goals: Gain her trust, give her therapy, learn more of her motivations.
-[] Potential Specifics (go for less sensitive issues first)
--[] How is she holding up; is anything troubling her?
--[] Worried about Anri?
--[] About Niko?
--[] What Hijiri wants to do once this is over.

--[] Privately: How much did Anri tell her about her past, and in how much detail?
--[] She talked earlier like she was still in contact with Anri.

Depending on the answer: I might include something like:
---[] Do not speak of intercepting her telepathy, go off of conversational clues.

[] Searching
- [] Conventional searching, per Kazumi's directive, until you can trust Hijiri.

Per earlier debate.
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Click to shrink...
For the Nadia block, I agree more with veB's, though I could also shorten that to:

[ ] Nadia, Homura:
-[ ] Explain the situation to Nadia, apologizing profusely.

I agree with expanding the Hijiri part; I'd mostly want to start with lighter talk (or as light as it gets for this), then bring up the carrot (what does Hijiri want? Talk about the future; offer transport if she wants to go somewhere far away, support Hijiri's freedom, etc.), then try to reach an agreement with her, fold her into the team.

Then I'd feel we've done all we can to make the Ribbon Range thing safer. After that, I'd consider confronting Hijiri about her telepathy.
 
Gnarker said:
Quick question: What exactly is a Doppel? The thing that Sayaka apparently pulled in Rebellion of transcending her despair and summoning her Witch to fight alongside her? If yes, can we call it a Persona instead? (The last one's halfserious, I'm just inordinately fascinated by the idea of a crossover between PMMM and Persona. And Black Rock Shooter, for that matter.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I guess we could, but it's an actual named ability from the recent mobile game Magia Record, in which a bunch of the characters are in a (from what I understand, I haven't played it or even looked too far into it) city approximately as fucked up as Asunaro magically speaking. In this city, they have the ability to manifest their witches to fight for them, an ability labeled their "Doppel," presumably referencing Doppelgangers.
 
Onmur said:
To this I'd add more specifics about what to try and talk with Hijiri, and the goal would be to get some sort of agreement out of Hijiri to cooperate; give us a chance; to trust us; etc.. Try to get her onboard for real; give her a good reason to really cut ties with Airi if that's what she's thinking. Pacify her urges to do violence on us and run away.

I think we can accomplish all that by reaching an agreement. To an extent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So I've been thinking about this. I don't think that Hijiri can take a shot at us. Let's look at what would happen if she did.
  • Say that she misses. She's in range of our divination, instant game over, and she's spent all her goodwill and will have a far worse outcome from the Pleiades.
  • Say that she hits and OHKOs both of us. Doesn't matter if she kills or just incaps, we're out. Now what?
    • We'd have been in the middle of... honestly, probably the single biggest work of magic that any of the Pleiades will have ever seen. It will be immediately obvious that we've been taken out.
    • Hijiri can't break contact. Odds are that Mami isn't the only one with a tracking device on her. The MOF will dissipate, leaving her in the middle of the sky surrounded by people with super-senses that were already looking at her. She may not even be able to fly without some time to flip through her powers.
    • She's betrayed Sabrina, Obvious Force for Good, and Mami, Beloved Senpai. We were her only advocate and were doing nothing but trying to help her. Sayaka will be out for blood, Niko will flip out, Kazumi's wrath will be so terrible that she will single-handedly tear open a new Eye of Terror from which a newborn chaos god of vengeance will sally forth, and the rest of the Pleiades will not be far behind them. I do not expect any of them to be fighting to subdue. Sayaka or Kazumi may straight-up declare no quarter.
    • Hijiri dies, actual gemsmash, within about fifteen seconds.
So what does Hijiri value? She'd hurt the Pleiades badly. But is that worth it? Is that what she wants? Or does she just want control over her life? 'Cause being dead isn't exactly conducive to having control of anything, much less over your life.

Can Hijiri follow that chain of logic? I don't think that I'd want to explicitly give it to her if she doesn't, it's a bit... threatening... but it's trivial to talk to her for a bit and shift her horizons outward and get her thinking more about control than about vengeance. Just ask her what she's thinking about and what she wants to do with her life.

On top of all that, I think that the ribbon thing will not actually distract Sabrina, and that means that we can engage Hijiri in therapeutic discussion concurrently. That'd be far more distracting to her than it would be to us, increasing our relative advantage if she can decide to throw her hopes for the future away right in the middle of a discussion about them.

Trying to negotiate an explicit alliance with Hijiri against Yuuri is... risky. From her perspective: Why do we need it? She's already helping, and more importantly, why would we be worried about her trying to backstab us in the first place? It looks super fishy. While I think that asking her to commit to working with us is a good idea, this isn't the right commitment for her. Rather, I think that we should ask her to envision some concrete bit of future that she wants for herself and we can commit to helping her achieve it together. Visualize success - don't just say "I want to be more responsible", say "I want to be able to take care of a cat, and I need these skills and those habits to do so, and this is what that future will look like". Don't just say "I want to live my own life", say "I want to be living in my own apartment and cooking my own food and signing up for my own classes". Not only is that useful therapy, it shifts Hijiri into a strongly constructive long-term mindset that will sharply limit her ability to drive decisions with short-term vengeance logic.
 
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Wow.
Just. Wow.
Have an "insightful" bigger than my head.
Honestly? All very true, but it depends on how much Hijiri is her own person, instead of what we've seen in Kazumi Magica. By the end of it, I don't think she really wanted anything that much. She just hoped to hurt as many people as she could.
Let's not forget that she is a teenage girl with very big problems with authority. She might not be very rational about the whole thing.
She looks more subdued, though. I think she's not committing to one course of action right now, she's watching for how things would turn out. Her talking with ( probably ) Airi is more of that: exploring options. So the best course of action for us would be not giving her opportunity to be tempted with.
But, well. Mumi soul snuggles.
Decisions, decisions. :V
 
Well, okay, I say that ribbons won't distract Sabrina, but under better circumstances I'd be expecting Sabrina to ask Mami to do the thing for her. Just a bit. If Mami wants to.

<_<

>_>
 
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Vebyast said:
Rather, I think that we should ask her to envision some concrete bit of future that she wants for herself and we can commit to helping her achieve it together.
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Just ask her what she's thinking about and what she wants to do with her life.
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This is what I've been going for since a few updates ago.

Talk about the future, freedom from the current circumstances, her life (away from here or here, whatever she likes), etc., and offer help. This is basically our carrot.

Vebyast said:
Trying to negotiate an explicit alliance with Hijiri against Yuuri is... risky. From her perspective: Why do we need it? She's already helping,
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Not an explicit alliance; get her to agree to give us a chance with this whole mess. She's not helping us yet, actually; asking her for some help and trust in return for our own would help seal the deal in her mind.

:thumbsup:
 
[] Simultaneously: Homura, Nadia, Sayaka
-[] Apologize to Nadia for being a bad host.
-[] Explain the situation.
-[] Don't let her try to help - You have it under control and the girls she's bringing need peace and quiet more than anything.

[] Simultaneously: Oriko
-[] Implement Mami's suggestion - explain your problem, ask for some seer mysteriosity.

[] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[] Goals
--[] Be empathybrina
--[] Get Hijiri thinking constructively about her future. Good therapy and will discourage short-sighted backstab attempts.
-[] Potential specifics:
--[] Ask her what she's thinking about.
--[] Help her think about what she wants to do with her life.

[] Simultaneously: Mami ribbons!
-[] Goals:
--[] Find Yuuri first - the less Pleiades exposure the better.
--[] Soul-snugggles with mami <3
--[] Don't get backstabbed.
 
Anything for snuggles with Mumi.
I mean
Soul-snuggles
Completely platonic
Agh
[X] Vebyast
As long as we are not distracted by Mami being distracted.
 
[X] Simultaneously: Homura, Nadia, Sayaka
-[X] Apologize to Nadia for being a bad host.
-[X] Explain the situation.
-[X] Don't let her try to help - You have it under control and the girls she's bringing need peace and quiet more than anything.

[X] Simultaneously: Oriko
-[X] Implement Mami's suggestion - explain your problem, ask for some seer mysteriosity.

[X] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[X] Goals
--[X] Be empathybrina
--[X] Get Hijiri thinking constructively about her future. Good therapy and will discourage short-sighted backstab attempts.
-[X] Potential specifics:
--[X] Ask her what she's thinking about.
--[X] Help her think about what she wants to do with her life.

[X] Simultaneously: Mami ribbons!
-[X] Goals:
--[X] Find Yuuri first - the less Pleiades exposure the better.
--[X] Soul-snugggles with mami <3
--[X] Don't get backstabbed.
 
[X] Simultaneously: Homura, Nadia, Sayaka
-[X] Apologize to Nadia for being a bad host.
-[X] Explain the situation.
-[X] Don't let her try to help - You have it under control and the girls she's bringing need peace and quiet more than anything.

[X] Simultaneously: Oriko
-[X] Implement Mami's suggestion - explain your problem, ask for some seer mysteriosity.

[X] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[X] Goals
--[X] Be empathybrina
--[X] Get Hijiri thinking constructively about her future. Good therapy and will discourage short-sighted backstab attempts.
-[X] Potential specifics:
--[X] Ask her what she's thinking about.
--[X] Help her think about what she wants to do with her life.

[X] Simultaneously: Mami ribbons!
-[X] Goals:
--[X] Find Yuuri first - the less Pleiades exposure the better.
--[X] Soul-snugggles with mami <3
--[X] Don't get backstabbed.
 
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