Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Vebyast said:

I half-expect that resolving this issue will involve dewitching Yuuri, so the motivation is completely legitimate. In addition, singling that seed out for research has the useful side effect of giving us an excuse to grab it later when we need to start doing science. On top of that, turning it into a Clear Seed guarantees that it'll remain in our control instead of being given to Kyubey.

[x] Thank Madokami.

[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Goals
--[x] Continue to undermine the foundations of her anger.
--[x] If Niko set things up right, guilt-trip her about hurting Niko.
---[x] Totally by accident, of course. You know nothing about any half-rate wannabe masterminds.
-[x] Potential specifics
--[x] Shrug. Helplessly smug - you told her that Niko cared.
--[x] She's still with you. Ask her to keep helping with Yuuri/Airi.
--[x] Continue questions about Airi from the various previous votes.

Basically, double down on what Niko's just done - keep Hijiri off balance and questioning her motives by asking her to help us deal with Airi/Yuuri. And she's done an amazingly good job of deflecting any questions about her historical behavior - we still don't even know what she might have been looking for in Niko's lab, or what she told Hijiri that convinced her about the "truth".

[x] ALL CAPS
-[x] Goals
--[x] Act to ensure she doesn't get thrown away or lost
--[x] Try to give yourself an excuse to get hold of her later if necessary
-[x] Potential specifics
--[x] Make her into a Clear Seed

Goals-focus, let brinapilot come up with something. We've talked about it enough.

[x] Hunting.
-[x] Goals
--[x] Keep your friends safe from infohazards.
-[x] Potential specifics.
--[x] You want to talk to her yourself. Crazy assholes are still redeemable.
--[x] Warn of infohazards. If they can't disengage, try to gem her and don't listen.

We've already vote for "warn them about infohazards" once or twice. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal now. Probably spill-over from the "LET'S WITCHBOMB EVERYONE" crowd. I think that we're pretty much safe if we just tell them that they shouldn't talk to Yuuri and that asking questions is a bad idea. Lean on "I have magical knowledge of many things" and "My teammate is a precog, I ain't gotta explain shit" if they get suspicious.

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This vote looks very passive-aggressive. Especially the Hijiri bits.

I really don't think that's going to help accomplish anything we want to.

Vebyast said:

[x] ALL CAPS
-[x] Goals
--[x] Act to ensure she doesn't get thrown away or lost
--[x] Try to give yourself an excuse to get hold of her later if necessary
-[x] Potential specifics
--[x] Make her into a Clear Seed

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Memes aside, it's less confusing to refer to Arzt Kochen by a non-too-memetic name.

Always Happening said:

HEY KIDS WANNA SEE A DEAD BODY
>shot by Homura

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Why, at this point I feel Homura would give us the benefit of the doubt and wonder just what are we trying to accomplish by shoving a deadguca in the Shiogama girls' faces.

I'm sure she'll (try to) play along.

Up until the point she realizes Sabrina's just brain damaged.

The Phoenixian said:

This vote looks very passive-aggressive. Especially the Hijiri bits.

I really don't think that's going to help accomplish anything we want to.

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What do we want to accomplish here? I've got basically nothing for Hijiri past "I told you so" and "continue previous vote", nobody's come up with any better ideas for the grief seed than "clear it out so it doesn't get lost", Yuuri-hunting has gotten bogged down. If you're seeing passive-aggressive, it's probably because I think that this entire situation has gotten silly. Nobody seems to want to do anything; I just threw out something so we at least had some discussion.

Mind putting together an edit that'd seem less annoying, just so we have something to talk about? I don't think that it really matters, since two-thirds of the stated goals include some element of manipulation so the actual implementation really shouldn't reflect the tone of the vote itself, but if it generates useful discussion I don't care how it happens.

Let's not make Homumom sad because her daughter's brain damaged.
More than usual.

[X] Join Hugpile

Anri: Yes....cmon blonde, join the mass too..... Yes...... Got you all.
*pulls trigger on bazooka*

[X] Thank Madokami.

[X] Help Hijiri out of hugs if she's too uncomfortable.
-[X] Observe how she's doing.
-[X] Once appropriate, bring up that Hijiri could help search for Airi.
-[X] Futhermore, ask Hijiri to offer any relevant knowledge she might have held back.
-[X] If necessary, nudge her RE: Oriko's visions.

[X] Ask Saki for a Seed to Clear. Make sure to get Arzt Kochen.

[X] Privately tell Mami: Once you catch Airi, you might need to talk with her alone. Ask for help convincing Kazumi if that's the case.

[X] Once the search starts, beware Hijiri.
[X] If Airi is found, be there, be ready to shut her up if she threatens to drop infohazards.

So, I've been thinking the talk with Hijiri should be private... but maybe not? Just bring up her helping with the search, then use some social pressure to try and get her closer to admitting to her evil plans?

About Arzt Kochen, I have this mental image in which Saki says Sabrina could Clear any other Seed, so Sabrina offers to Clear more than one Seed, as long as she gets Arzt Kochen... and ends up Clearing ALL the Seeds just for that.

I think the drawbacks of de-gemming Airi first thing are... important. We really should be able to beat her in a fight; canonically, she owns the Pleiades, but the Pleiades aren't exactly... strong, at least then and there, they suffer from Conservation of Ninjutsu. Mami should be able to take her, all things told.

So I think the plan should be to capture Airi the good old fashioned way (she's not up to talking things through yet). Then ask Mami to help with the horrifying Social of letting the Pleiades deal with the offender in their territory. Mami will understand. Let her convince Kazumi.

Also, we should keep in mind Hijiri might yet pull a dumb! Keep an eye on her!

BTW, completely unrelated, but can I say I find this shot of Kaoru practising plagiarism casting her magic to look pretty cool?

So, uh - more votes?

[X] Onmur

I mean, hopefully Hijiri doesn't have Niko under Fantasma Bisbiglio with this whole crying and hugging session being a charade that got weird as everyone decided to join in.

[X] Riseth

Kinda hard to decide, but I doubt we'll run into and fight Airi in the next update. We can focus more on the battle plan next vote. For now, lets focus on Hijiri and info gathering.

Model DC.14F said:

[X] Riseth

Kinda hard to decide, but I doubt we'll run into and fight Airi in the next update. We can focus more on the battle plan next vote. For now, lets focus on Hijiri and info gathering.

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If people are going to vote for me, maybe I should actually revise the whole damn thing to be more presentable...

Oh, and it's Raiseth, thank you very much

Revised vote, 30% less shitposting.

[X] Thank Momokami.

[X] Gauge situation.
-[X] Offer Hijiri to help extract her from the hugpile only if the hugpile remains undisrupted afterwards.

-[X] When ( if ) hugpile ends, ask Saki and Kazumi to clear Azrt Kochen. Elaborate that, according to your metaknowledge, the Witch could be very important to Anri.

[X] Privately, Hijiri:
-[X] Don't ask about what happened. Unless Niko or Kanna decide to share, it's not your business.
-[X] Be supportive, remain hopeful that some progress was made.
-[X] Kindly ask to share any information she might've withheld: say that Airi is suffering, too, and you'd like to help her if you can. Nudge her with Oriko's visions, if necessary.

[X] Publicly
-[X] Ask for Hijiri to participate in search of Airi. Don't press if Niko has problems with that.

Still under 150, I think.
So. How does it look now?

Firnagzen said:

So, uh - more votes?

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Were I in Firn's position, I would consider it entirely justified to make a mini update based on this joke vote.

I think I'mma go with

[X] Onmur

[X] Thank Madokami.

[X] Gauge whether uncomfortable being there, or because she doesn't know what to do. Extract, advise, or join in as appropriate.

[X] Privately, Kazumi, Mami.
-[X] Warn them Anri has dangerous information and loose lips and the two of them are the most at risk if they learn. They need to be careful not to listen to her.

[X] Privately, Hijiri:
-[X] Don't ask what just happened. It's not your business.
-[X] Be supportive, remain hopeful that some progress was made.
-[X] Kindly ask to share any information she might've withheld: say that Anri is suffering, too, and you'd like to help her if you can. Nudge her with Oriko's visions, if necessary.
-[X] Find out how much Anri told Hijiri about her circumstances, carefully. Pay attention to anything about Anri's contracting.

[X] Publicly: Ask Hijiri if she's willing to help search for Anri. Don't press her or Niko on it.

[X] Leave Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ be, for now.


Leaving off Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ because Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ will keep for at least a few hours. Her existence confirms that dewitching her is a possibility but --- as anything we do with Dewitching is not going to happen inside a single day --- there's nothing we particularly need to do, right here and now. (And yes, thanks to a suggested "ALL CAPS" nickname, Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ is in small caps.)

Slightly edited asking Hijiri for help to change tone a bit, added Anri's circumstances to private talk as carefully as I can construct it.

Infohazards...

So, there is a significant problems with keeping the infohazard stuff secret. Namely, only the people we tell will know to stay away.

We warn tell everyone and let them sort it out, we can tell Kazumi and our whole team, or just Kazumi and Mami. Those two, at least, need to know not to talk to Anri. Just having her talk to us instead probably won't do. I honestly don't know which approach is best. Right now I'm sticking with the less drastic, more contained approach.

The whole team approach would probably look like this:

[] Keep your friends safe from infohazards.
-[] Potential specifics.
--[] Warn of infohazards. Do not listen to Anri.
--[] You want her to talk to yourself or Oriko.
--[] Everyone should have something at hand
--[] Memory fields, privacy fields, and just plain gags might stop her speech and telepathy if Urgently needed.

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Alternatively, there's the direct approach:

[] To Anri, one word: "Dewitching."
- [] It's not a bargain, nor trade, nor promise, simply something you already intended to first learn, then do. To every witch and seed you find, if possible.
- [] If she seems stabler: You would still appreciate it if she didn't blurt anything out.

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@Firnagzen: Would you be willing to say whether Hijiri's face has more of a "I don't want to be here," kind of discomfort or a "Oh god, what do I even do?" discomfort?

Shadowhisker said:

Incidentally, I remember from a binge of Asuka Quest that SB!suka was like 80% Angel after going berserk a few to many times, and also the interference of Asuka's mom. Was that from canon, something original, or ripped from another fan work?

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Soooorta? The mechanics of Evangelion is that Angelic entities can contaminate and infect you, and they usually do so for their attempts at mind-melding. So while it never happens in the series, there is concern from NERV's staff of combat going sour and the Angels accidentally corrupting the Eva or the pilots. And the Evas are clones of an Angel, so...

[X] Onmur

[X] Thank Madokami.
[X] Gauge whether uncomfortable being there, or because she doesn't know what to do. Extract, advise, or join in as appropriate.

[] Privately, Kazumi, Mami.
-[] Warn them Anri has dangerous information and loose lips and the two of them are the most at risk if they learn. They need to be careful not to listen to her.
Removed in favor of things below.

Removed mostly in favor of the infohazard warning below. Also, while Mami might be particularly vulnerable, there's every possibility that Kazumi already knows, so this just seems unnecessary.

[x] Keep your friends safe from infohazards.
-[x] Potential specifics:
--[x] Warn of infohazards. Do not listen to Anri.
--[x] You want her to talk to yourself or Oriko.
--[] Everyone should have something at hand

Not entirely sure what the goal for this line is, so removing for wordcount.

--[x] Memory fields, privacy fields, and just plain gags might stop her speech and telepathy if urgently needed.

[X] Privately, Hijiri:
-[X] Don't ask what just happened.

Last sentence removed for wordcount.

-[X] Be supportive.

Again, trying to get extra words, and really, we're probably going to be hopeful about that regardless.

-[X] Kindly ask to share any information she might've withheld: say that Anri is suffering, too, and you'd like to help her if you can. Nudge her with Oriko's visions, if necessary.
-[X] Find out how much Anri told Hijiri about her circumstances, carefully. Pay attention to anything about Anri's contracting.

[X] Publicly: Ask Hijiri if she's willing to help search for Anri.

Shortened for wordcount.

[] Leave Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ be, for now.

Honestly, this isn't that big of an issue, but there's really no reason not to keep the thing safe while we can.

[x]Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ
-[x] Act to ensure she doesn't get thrown away or lost
-[x] Try to give yourself an excuse to get hold of her later if necessary

[x] To Anri, one word: "Dewitching."
- [x] It's not a bargain, trade, or promise, simply something you already intended to do. For everyone.
- [] If she seems stabler: You would still appreciate it if she didn't blurt anything out.

If she doesn't think of using the witchbomb on her own, I don't want to potentially make her realize it could be a weapon.

Exactly 200 words, I believe.


Okay, we've definitely been overcautious about the witchbomb. Any time it's brought up, there's this knee-jerk reaction that it's too dangerous to risk people finding out about. Frankly, though, our presence is the best assurance anyone we talk to is going to get for surviving the witchbomb, and it's a pretty fundamentally important aspect of being a meguca. Unless we're intending for our friends to die before it becomes an issue, they're going to find out some time, and we're not doing them any favors by letting that wait until some one or some situation makes learning the witchbomb urgent. If we decide to discretely ask Kazumi about her knowledge and it (somehow) leads her to being witchbombed, the world doesn't end. She is entirely capable of surviving the knowledge, and the grief buildup she showed in canon is not really a problem here. Looking back, I'm actually having trouble finding characters in canon that immediately grief-spiraled when they learned the witchbomb. There are a bunch of characters that got homi-/suicidal, but there don't seem to be that many that witch out faster than we can save them. Anything short of that, we can deal with.

I'm not suggesting that we should just blurt this out or anything, I'm not even really supporting any course of action in this particular vote. There have been a number of perfectly good reasons we haven't witchbombed anyone yet, I'm just trying to point out that we don't need to be quite so gunshy in regards to that particular infobomb. We keep panicking that someone might know/find out about the witchbomb and then do nothing to address that issue because we're worried that will risk revelation as well. We should be telling our friends that there are infobombs out there, because that could help them avoid them, and it's a small enough risk that it's worth it. And frankly, the only way to be entirely safe from the witchbomb is to know it already and in that regard, we have done very little to make our friends safer.

Actually.
I took a good look at Onmur's vote
And turns out the only gripes I have with is

Onmur said:

Honesty will only help her in the end.

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For whatever reason, I think it's too poignant and on the nose.
Like I'm the one to talk ( looks at his variant, tsks )
And it's not like we must be buddy-buddy with Kanna. I mean, that would be nice, 'cause believing in inherent goodness of every meguca, but whatever. So would be living in an actual magical girl show universe, instead of this sci-fi cosmic horror bullshit.

So, sorry, @Model DC.14F, but I'm going with

[X] Onmur

For now. There really is not that much difference between mine, Phoenixian's and Onmur's votes. It all differs in timing and wording, but not in intention
Oh, and Omniatrix
Looks good, but saying this one word to Airi is going to gauge a reaction from her. "Gauge" like an eyeball from a socket. I don't know what the reaction would be
Maybe even good, though I doubt it
I guess I'm just a conservative ( in a tender age of 20, welp )

Raiseth said:

Actually.
I took a good look at Onmur's vote
And turns out the only gripes I have with is

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That line was kind of tacked on. Removed it.

I'm trying to look at all the votes to see what they have in common; maybe reducing votes to their common points will make them more agreeable. :|

Raiseth said:

For now. There really is not that much difference between mine, Phoenixian's and Onmur's votes.

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That makes sense, because they're all made from my protovote, which was made from veB's protovote.

EDIT:

[Q] Thank Madokami.

There. That's the whole vote.

Omniatrix said:

it's a pretty fundamentally important aspect of being a meguca. Unless we're intending for our friends to die before it becomes an issue, they're going to find out some time, and we're not doing them any favors by letting that wait until some one or some situation makes learning the witchbomb urgent.

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Everyone dies eventually! TIME TO GO A-MURDERING!

No. Just because someone can survive it does not mean that they are guaranteed to do so under all circumstances, nor that we can casually throw it at them. What do you think would happen if we e.g. dumped it on everyone here right now with no warning or lead-up? Would that be more or less likely to end with everyone dead than if we did it one at a time, with warning and support and infrastructure and time to dedicate to each person's reaction? What doesn't kill you leaves you with a huge open wound that's a magnet for infection and slows you down enough that you can't dodge the next one. We absolutely do need to be careful about this.

That said: I think that, while warning of infohazards does increase the likelihood of those infohazards getting out, that increase in risk is significantly overestimated and, more importantly, the alternative is worse. I mean, really, people, you're going "Oh no! They'll start thinking about pink elephants!" when the non-warning scenario ends with an elephant-shaped pepto-bismol elemental crashing through the wall of their living room to demand a group selfie and an autograph.

I'll also note, on further thought, that gemming Yuuri doesn't actually solve this problem - it just puts it off until we have to argue to the Pleiades and Mami that they can't be present when we interrogate her.

[X] Onmur

Vebyast said:

Everyone dies eventually! TIME TO GO A-MURDERING!

No. Just because someone can survive it does not mean that they are guaranteed to do so under all circumstances, nor that we can casually throw it at them. What do you think would happen if we e.g. dumped it on everyone here right now with no warning or lead-up? Would that be more or less likely to end with everyone dead than if we did it one at a time, with warning and support and infrastructure and time to dedicate to each person's reaction? What doesn't kill you leaves you with a huge open wound that's a magnet for infection and slows you down enough that you can't dodge the next one. We absolutely do need to be careful about this.

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I am absolutely not arguing we can tell people on a whim. We totally need to be careful. But careful is not the same thing as paralyzed, which is what we have been in regard to the witchbomb.

@Onmur: My only issue is that Sabrina doesn't go "She's not so different" to back up her case, though I'm fairly certain Sabrina will manage things anyways. Still, at least some reinforcement of her goal with the side bonus that Hijiri hears seems good.

@Omniatrix: In general, I agree that it is inevitable they'll learn even if Sabrina doesn't bring anyone into her dewitching experiments. Still, even with Anri on the horizon, I don't think Sabrina would have sufficient time to even solidly nail down why these infohazards are dangerous so they don't speculate or ask Kyubey. While Anri could easily be written off as crazy, even Mami & Sayaka are likely to believe Kyubey if they ask.