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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Vebyast said:
Stuff I'm putting in my vote:

[] Thank Madokami.

[] Leave Hijiri in the hugpile.
-[] Semi-smugly. What'd you tell her? As bad as Niko is at expressing it, Niko cares about her.
-[] Take a picture.

[] Ask Saki to toss you that Grief Seed so you can clear it out. Now that Yuuri's confirmed to have the Clear Seed, you want to minimize the chances of one of your allies fighting her at a disadvantage.

Things that I think need discussion:

[] Warn of infohazards

I maintain that this needs to happen in one form or another.

[] Make the case that Airi needs help

The issue here is - what is our case, and what do we explain? Whoever finds Yuuri will find out that she believes the Pleiades killed someone. Do we break that early so they're prepared, or as backup for "Don't listen to her, she's delusional and will say anything to break you"?

[] Confront Hijiri about her giving instructions to Airi

I think that we don't want to be this blatant. However, if someone can come up with good wording for it, I think that a subtle little thing to let her know that we know might be in order. Something like "[] You don't think that she'd tell Yuuri where you are or anything like that. Right, Hijiri?". We could probably guilt her hard right now, with what Niko just said. Or would it be better to let her stew for a while?
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Maybe we should wait a bit, then if Hijiri needs a save, do a round of Grief cleansing.

We're not in the habit of taking pic, though.

Asking Mami for a Seed on the sly, then asking Saki for a Seed to clear and swapping them could work.

As far as warning of infohazards, we need to pay extra attention to Kazumi, and to Mami of course.

Maybe we can take Kazumi aside and inquire if she has learned any secret about the meguca system she feels she can't share with anybody. If she doesn't react as a Witchbombed Kazumi, it's not that bad. Just warn her about the existence of infohazards and ask to let us handle Yuuri when we signal her.

And for her to make sure to pull the other Pleiades out of hearing range when we ask.

The chances Kazumi ends up Witchbombed for warning her of infohazards is not much higher than otherwise.

And Kazumi is resistant to Witchbomb. And the Pleiades trust Kazumi, so if we get her to agree to let us handle the Yuuritheraphy, the Pleiades will be kept away from the Witchbomb threat.

For Hijiri, I'd ask her to please be as honest as she can. If she's on the fence about it, tell her what we know due to precognizance. Let her draw her own conclusions. Say it'll be better for her if she volunteers all the information.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Niko!" Kazumi's off like a shot, and you all hurry after her, rushing past haphazardly arrayed shelves.

And-

There's Hijiri, standing petrified.

And there's Niko, down on her knees and wailing with her arms thrown around Hijiri's waist.

Hijiri looks very uncomfortable, her eyes darting over to all of you.

And then there's Kazumi, wrapping herself around Niko. Mirai joins in seconds later, and then Kaoru and Saki.

... Hijiri looks even more uncomfortable, with a hugpile gathered around and clinging to her legs.
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...I guess the talk went well?
 
An idea for how a redeemed Hijiri could avoid wish rejection (assuming she made her canon wish):
Therapy Niko, so that she gets over her issues, at which point she might stop considering herself to be a fake, and subsequently decides to stop using the name "Niko". Niko is now "dead" and Hijiri's wish is fulfilled.
 
Since Sabrina is the only one with refined Grief Manipulation, she can easily claim that Saki's Grief Seeds would be best for quickly making another Clear Seed. That way there's no need to stealthily swap and the biggest potential issue (Saki being reluctant to hand over the Seeds) is easily solved by Kazumi asking nicely. Overall though, I would say Sabrina really should clear Yuuri's Grief Seed as soon as possible- Both to ensure she doesn't get fed to Kyubey and to further calm down Anri (especially if Anri has an empathic connection due to her Wish).

When it comes to explaining why Sabrina wants to help Anri, first and foremost she can point out how all of them would react similarly (Sayaka irrationally hating Homura, Mami "the OG Suzune", the Pleiades going full on psycho mad science templar knights). Basically, Sabrina should explain to the team how they're not so different from Anri and that Sabrina would want them & herself to be saved if the situation was reversed. Sabrina could also explain how she already encountered a similar situation, but failed to properly help the grieving Magical Girl then.
 
JarringToaster said:
No. Her reaction to the Witchbomb was to fall into depression and give all of the Grief Seeds she was gaining to the rest of the Pleiades before herself, which caused her to Witch out right in front of all of them.
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Soo. Essentially exactly what she had been doing by the looks of it until we came along?
Alright, alright, I'll not restart that argument.
But, objectively speaking, her reaction is in the upper curve.
*Trying to glare at Mami, failing and sighing instead*

Edit: Somehow, it feels like I have been ninja'd.
 
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JarringToaster said:
No. Her reaction to the Witchbomb was to fall into depression and give all of the Grief Seeds she was gaining to the rest of the Pleiades before herself, which caused her to Witch out right in front of all of them.
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She is.

Of all the Pleiades, she's the one who put up with the Witchbomb on her own, and made it for an amount of time; she witched out in a similar manner to Tsubaki in Suzune. Caring so much for her friends (and because of guilt) that she takes care they're all cleansed before herself, then she witches at one point where she's obviously spiralling due to lack of cleansing, and all the Pleiades go "We're so happy to be meguca, thank you so much, Kazumi!" and bam.

One of the most poignant points for Witchbombed Kazumi? She felt she couldn't come out and talk about it. She wanted to; could've dealt better with the Witchbomb if she had anyone to talk with, but she didn't have anyone like that.

The rest of the Pleiades, on the other hand, heavily supported each other and buried the fact they were fucking terrified about witching out themselves under their Hard Women Making Hard Decisions facade; their Mission to Break The System; their Mission to Save Kazumi. Canonically, they come out and admit the reason why they focused so much on reviving their friend and saving all magical girls everywhere was for their own sakes, in order to deal with their own fear of ending up witches.

Kazumi canonically represses, yes, because she doesn't have an outlet. She wants one, but she doesn't have it.

If she ever ends up Witchbombed, which would be a lot of bad luck, we likely can deal with it. Kazumi's a best.

But that's the worst case scenario (well, there's worst cases...).


The way to address the Witchbomb problem when dealing with Yuuri, so as to avoid Yuuri being able to bomb our friends, is to grab Kazumi aside, tell her that infohazards exist; ask her to not ask, trust us, and keep the Pleiades away, so we can address Airi's problems on our own (maybe with Oriko's help).

Mami can vouch for us, for Kazumi to trust us with this.

If Kazumi agrees to trust us when handling Airi, she'll keep the Pleiades away. Else we'd somehow have to give all the Pleiades as satisfactory explanation why Airi is so dangerous to them. And the rest of the Pleiades can't tank the Witchbomb, if it comes out at some point because we couldn't explain. Because we can't explain.


Otherwise, we just go deal with Airi and hope she doesn't try to witchbomb anyone. Which she might not; canonically, she doesn't try, but that might be simply because she witched out too fast.
 
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The reason the Kazumi clones couldn't have memories was because they'd instantly witch out.

What if cleansing grief from a grief seed removes the instant witch out from having memories?
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
The reason the Kazumi clones couldn't have memories was because they'd instantly witch out.

What if cleansing grief from a grief seed removes the instant witch out from having memories?
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The whole thing is rather iffy, but at least I'll note the Kazumis witched out when fighting witches, not instantly.

I don't think making bodies out of Witch flesh is the way to go.
 
Onmur said:
The whole thing is rather iffy, but at least I'll note the Kazumis witched out when fighting witches, not instantly.

I don't think making bodies out of Witch flesh is the way to go.
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Yeah, what was with that? How do you figure: we want a cuddly Kazumi, so let's make her body from witches?
The other way to go, though, would be growing a new body from scratch. Maybe they didn't have enough resources.
Luckily, we do.
And we have one or two Healguca associates.
 
Raiseth said:
Yeah, what was with that? How do you figure: we want a cuddly Kazumi, so let's make her body from witches?
The other way to go, though, would be growing a new body from scratch. Maybe they didn't have enough resources.
Luckily, we do.
And we have one or two Healguca associates.
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The whole explanation is... far fetched.

They had materials to make a new normal body if they wanted; Niko's power is matter reconstruction.

What the Pleiades did, and this is a PMKM thing, is take Kazumi's Witch's Soul/Core, which they call 'Cor Maleficus' (something we like to poke and get mind blasted for :V ), and somehow use the magical properties of Witches themselves to give Kazumi life again.

Like, Witches have a will to exist. So they made Kazumi a new body with Witch flesh, put her Witch Soul into it, put their own magic into it, and made it work. To an extent.

Perhaps part of the approach (using the Witch's 'core') can work if we somehow manage to theraphy them first. Like, we need to ask Oriko for Aurora so we can do some more science to that Seed, and get some help from Soulguca, too. Maybe we've got something.
 
Raiseth said:
Soo. Essentially exactly what she was doing by the looks of it until we came along?
Alright, alright, I'll not restart that argument.
But, objectively speaking, her reaction is in the upper curve.
*Trying to glare at Mami, failing and sighing instead*
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Her reaction was mostly influenced by her realizing, "oh god, I just persuaded six girls to become Magical Girls all at once and they're all going to become Witches". The fact that they're all incredibly thankful for Michiru for doing that just pours a lot of salt on that wound. This part shows exactly what she was feeling.

Matou Sutegobana said:
The reason the Kazumi clones couldn't have memories was because they'd instantly witch out.

What if cleansing grief from a grief seed removes the instant witch out from having memories?
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It's weird as to why the Kazumi clones with the original Michiru's memories degenerated after fighting Witches. All the Pleiades say is that when the clones fought Witches, they went crazy and became murderers, and they interpreted this as "Michiru's will" telling them to stop implanting her memories.

Kazumi (the 13th) oddly enough, who was given a different personality and wasn't directly implanted with Michiru's memories from the start, never went crazy even when her physical form was becoming all Witchy and she learned about her origins.
 
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Onmur said:
The whole explanation is... far fetched.

They had materials to make a new normal body if they wanted; Niko's power is matter reconstruction.

What the Pleiades did, and this is a PMKM thing, is take Kazumi's Witch's Soul/Core, which they call 'Cor Maleficus' (something we like to poke and get mind blasted for :V ), and somehow use the magical properties of Witches themselves to give Kazumi life again.

Like, Witches have a will to exist. So they made Kazumi a new body with Witch flesh, put her Witch Soul into it, put their own magic into it, and made it work. To an extent.

Perhaps part of the approach (using the Witch's 'core') can work if we somehow manage to theraphy them first. Like, we need to ask Oriko for Aurora so we can do some more science to that Seed, and get some help from Soulguca, too. Maybe we've got something.
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JarringToaster said:
Her reaction was mostly influenced by her realizing, "oh god, I just persuaded six girls to become Magical Girls all at once and they're all going to become Witches". The fact that they're all incredibly thankful for Kazumi for doing that just pours a lot of salt on that wound. This part shows exactly what she was feeling.
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Firstly. Thank you, guys, for telling me this instead of making me reread PMKM piecemeal.
"Shudder"

Secondly, yeah. Forgot we have a Soulguca incoming, too. Actually, she might be the most important thing happening to us aside from Walugi and TotallyNotHomucifer Feathers.

Thirdly, yeah, JarringToaster, exactly. I might be a bit cruel when I say this, but for me depression spiral and giving up on living is slightly better than deciding to kill everyone right there.
Granted, the differences in reactions stem from Mami's and Kazumi's different personalities.
And I don't blame Mami or Kazumi for what they did.
My point being that Kazumi is more mentally endurable.
But, after writing this down, I'm not so sure anymore.
 
Hey, things are pretty chaotic right now. It'd be a good time for a hypothetical monster to "collect" some soul gems in the midst of the hurly burly. We should make sure everyone is clear that the monster is not hypothetical and be extremely careful if you encounter her.
 
JarringToaster said:
Kazumi (the 13th) oddly enough, who was given a different personality and wasn't directly implanted with Michiru's memories from the start, never went crazy even when her physical form was becoming all Witchy and she learned about her origins.
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Kazumi13 has her own Soul, is her own person separate from Michiru Kazusa.

Kazumi13 had lots of Michiru's knowledge and traits, but she could reject the Witchification process when she accepted that she was not Michiru.

Michiru, meanwhile, could and did act, to an extent, while hanging as an earring from Kazumi's ear. E.g. Michiru forced Kazumi to transform at one point, and casted one of Umika's protective spells to protect Kazumi.


Curiosuly, there's an extra line in the scanlation I found.



Though it's only on the diary page, not on the thought-text.
 
DschingisKhan said:
Hey, things are pretty chaotic right now. It'd be a good time for a hypothetical monster to "collect" some soul gems in the midst of the hurly burly. We should make sure everyone is clear that the monster is not hypothetical and be extremely careful if you encounter her.
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We have an estimate from Oriko that CrazyTwins are coming in a few days, to Mitahikara, for us specifically.
But yeah, we should eventually get around telling everyone that a crazy lady with two Gems is out there, in the shadows, waiting. Mwahahaha!
 
Raiseth said:
We have an estimate from Oriko that CrazyTwins are coming in a few days, to Mitahikara, for us specifically.
But yeah, we should eventually get around telling everyone that a crazy lady with two Gems is out there, in the shadows, waiting. Mwahahaha!
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I don't think they were stated to be coming for us. Just that they'd come to Mitakihara around two weeks after prediction time.
"Yeah," you confirm. "And one... uh, two more girls. Soujo Ayase and Luca." You form another model, of the twin-souled girl. Or possible single-bodied duo.

"Them," Oriko says, an annoyed tone in her voice. "They may come through Mitakihara in... two weeks."

You raise an eyebrow. "Hmm?" you say, interested. "Can you backtrack her, uh, them to Asunaro?" And isn't she supposed to die there? And how the hell are you supposed to refer to them, anyway?

Oriko purses her lips, regarding the model carefully, her Soul Gem beginning to bubble with Grief again. Her eyes slide shut, brow furrowing as she spreads her powers.

Eventually, she shakes her head, eyes opening. They're slightly glazed over. "Too far, too many events." She jerks her head at the models still floating in the air and immediately winces. "The Pleaides Saints are still alive."
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Also, by the way,
You'd ask about Witches in general, but you already did. "This is a Witch, one that should be appearing within Mitakihara within the next few weeks at most," you say. "Can you tell me anything about it?"

Oriko studies the model, looking uneasy. "It..." she frowns. "Are you sure you should be revealing this? Here?"
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:p
 
I'm admittedly interested in seeing what happens if the Soujus encounter Sabrina. Most likely they'll want to claim a Clear Seed for the sake of their 'collection', but I feel like there's a scenario where Sabrina could convince them not to gem her (Sabrina obviously wouldn't want them getting away though). Of course, what I'm really interested about is the backstory they'll be given. For one, I'm curious if the fact they share a body is connected in some way to their gemming motivation. The fact they know how to share and use other Meguca's bodies brings the question why they learned how.

Overall, I feel like the Souju encounter could be rather enlightening to Sabrina- If not synchronization with Mami to ribbon cleanse the world, then as a possible avenue for restoring Witches/creating Sorceresses (preferably by getting a Clear Seed to synchronize with a cloned body). Very least, Sabrina and Co would have to perfect a new bit of science so the liberated Meguca can get new bodies. Hmm... Probably all the more important Sabrina peacefully deals with Anri & Hijiri, to have even more credibility when convincing a Magical Girl she'll help them.
 
Kkutlord said:
I'm admittedly interested in seeing what happens if the Soujus encounter Sabrina. Most likely they'll want to claim a Clear Seed for the sake of their 'collection', but I feel like there's a scenario where Sabrina could convince them not to gem her (Sabrina obviously wouldn't want them getting away though). Of course, what I'm really interested about is the backstory they'll be given. For one, I'm curious if the fact they share a body is connected in some way to their gemming motivation. The fact they know how to share and use other Meguca's bodies brings the question why they learned how.

Overall, I feel like the Souju encounter could be rather enlightening to Sabrina- If not synchronization with Mami to ribbon cleanse the world, then as a possible avenue for restoring Witches/creating Sorceresses (preferably by getting a Clear Seed to synchronize with a cloned body). Very least, Sabrina and Co would have to perfect a new bit of science so the liberated Meguca can get new bodies. Hmm... Probably all the more important Sabrina peacefully deals with Anri & Hijiri, to have even more credibility when convincing a Magical Girl she'll help them.
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The real problem with the Soujus is that, if Firn wants them to have an interesting impact in PMAS, he'll have to rework them himself. :p

Because canonically they're just so... useless to the story. They're just there as part of Hijiri's plan to make the Pleiades waste magic and build into their Grief spiral. Which only worked because of the bullshit, poorly explained 'JB cleansing only cleanses superficially' thing.

To be fair, the Soujus were enough to push Niko over the edge and Witch out, but that was after... a rather poor display of their powers, for all that they somehow managed to take down 13+ meguca offscreen.

And the Soujus are even more batshit crazy than Airi, I think, while having even less stated reasons for it. Poor Firn, why did we have to come to Asunaro...

Oh, right, for Mami's sake.

Damn it, mumi.

[Q] Hug Mumi
 
Thinking about the Soujus, that does remind me of some triva: Kyouko could of taken over Sayaka's body if she only knew the technique. Yet being Kyouko, pretending to be Sayaka seems like something that could only end badly. So the scenario that lends itself the easiest to "Shared body" is if one of the Soujus lost her own or it got seriously damaged (not sure how the Wish answer would produce pyro/cyromancy). Plus the fact souls aren't normally supposed to be constantly synchronized... Could be entirely possible prolonged Soul Synchronization has corrosive effects, at least for Meguca (due to the possibility of suffering the effects of Grief twice as normally). So... Admittedly probably not a good idea to get reckless with Soul Synchronization before figuring out the potential issues.
 
Kkutlord said:
Kyouko could of taken over Sayaka's body if she only knew the technique. Yet being Kyouko, pretending to be Sayaka seems like something that could only end badly.
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Silly idea: Kyouko and Sayaka get body-swapped, and try to act like each other, pretending that nothing is wrong. This leads to Hilarity (and possibly a side helping of Shipping).
 
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