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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Karnewarrior said:
[X] DschingisKhan

Hey by the by, you think you guys could help provide the salt for my new LIFTR Nuclear Power Plant? There's certainly more than enough here...

All this talk about abuse and all I can see is two sisters fighting. My own siblings did way worse than anything Niko's done, but y'all are right about Hijiri being our prisoner.
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Firstly, it's difficult to overstate how legitimately dangerous emotional drama is to magical girls. This is the sort of thing, left unchecked, that leads to "I'm such an idiot" moments, and a sudden, graphic witchbombing is something exactly nobody wants.

Secondly, it's difficult to overstate how tight the Pleiades are with each other. They're nice people, generally, but meguca are far from having a clean bill of mental health on the whole; PMKM is about the desperate lengths they go to bring Michiru back when she's no longer there to keep them in check. Just having a friend made Mami so deliriously happy that it got her killed in the anime. Friends are a magical girl's most precious treasure, and they do not brook having them threatened. Notice how Saki is ready and willing to fight us just over butting in? Hijiri might still be a threat, but don't forget, these people are capable of de-facto genocide under the right circumstances.

Actually, thinking about it, meguca are kind of like Space Marines in that way. They're superhuman in every respect, including how emotions affect them.

I personally think we should we should be talking down Kazumi instead of or while we intervene, because she's the one capable of bringing the rest of the saints to heel. Mami can separate the Kannas as needed, as well-- I'm not worried about her, given that she's capable of immediately disabling everyone on the roof with the possible exception of ourselves.

[X] Telepathy Mami to be ready to restrain Saki if necessary; brush her off with the utility fog.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now, it's the person she's treating like a thing."
[X] Intervene.
[X] Physically separate. Cleanse.
-[X] Warn Hijiri that this exact brand of horseshit is dangerous for her; if she won't step away from the device so that we can cleanse her, we'll have to take it from her.
[X] Talk down Kazumi first, then the Kannas; this is absolutely unacceptable.

oh btw Saki has lightning powers; don't want the update to get cut short by her tasing the fuck out of us since she's touching us right now 'n' all
 
DschingisKhan said:
Yooo, hold the phone, what the hell is this?

Either this is an author error or she's been eavesdropping on our private telepathic conversations with the Saints.
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Hijiri's wish in PMKM was to connect with others without them knowing. The fact that she can use Kazumi's finishing move would seem to indicate that she made a similar wish in this timeline. That connection might include being able to tap into their telepathy. Or she could just be using copied mindreading powers; remember that one of our biggest concerns when coming here was that she was a mindguca.

If that connection also lets her sense where the Pleiades are, that might explain why it was one of the teams with no Pleiades in it that stumbled on her, and why it freaked her out so much that she blew her cover by attacking.


@Godwinson I agree that we need to intervene, but you're taking too hostile an approach to the Pleiades. The idea here is to break up the fight and deescalate things, not to turn it into an all-out brawl.
 
Hmm. A few points, now that I'm awake:

• Given the additions to the update, I no longer think anything productive will come of letting Niko and Hijiri continue their conversation on its current track. Thus, we need to interfere in some way to make things go in a productive way.

• That said, allowing Sabrina to intentionally get angry in our votes? It has literally never worked. Every single time it's happened, it has made the situation worse, and we've had to do damage control afterwards. Stay. Calm.
 
OK, I was hoping for 'see if the situation de-escalates; if not, step in', but with the added bit to the update, it looks like the Kannas are just going to be shouting the same things at each other without stopping to consider each other's point of view.

So 'see if the situation de-escalates' is done, and it's not de-escalating.


Thoughts:

So... Going by the internet, apparently Japan has a thing about non-intervention in family matters, so no matter what, getting involved will hurt our standing, at least temporarily, which hurts our chances of helping successfully.

[X] Telepathy Saki and Kazumi: Niko just hit a defenseless prisoner, is verbally abusing her and treating her like an object. This is bad for both Hijiri and Niko.
-[X] Ask for help in calming down the Kannas and helping solve this civilly.
-[X] If they won't help, apologize, but you can't just let abuse happen.

I didn't know what to do about this, but in the end, I think turning things around and asking the Pleiades to help their friend could maybe let them see that non-intervention is not a good thing.

Of course, they might not agree...

Now, unless Sayaka blasts them with anti magic, we're limited in what actions we can take.

[X] Let some of your conflict through and call out Niko.
-[X] Be disappointed: Same points made to Saki and Kazumi.

[X] Hijiri: She might've done something wrong, but she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
-[X] Ask her to give up the Privacy Device: It's not helping her.
-[X] We want to help both of them. Ask Hijiri to let you mediate.

Aaaaand... a way to mitigate the harm in stepping into a situation everyone else sees as 'not concerning us' would be for one of the participants to invite us to do just that, I think.
 
Onmur said:
[X] Telepathy Saki and Kazumi: Niko just hit a defenseless prisoner, is verbally abusing her and treating her like an object. This is bad for both Hijiri and Niko.
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Honestly, I'm not really getting the impression that Niko is treating her like an object. The kind of things they're yelling at each other put me more in the mind of an argument between an overbearing parent and an irresponsible child.
 
The Narrator said:
Honestly, I'm not really getting the impression that Niko is treating her like an object. The kind of things they're yelling at each other put me more in the mind of an argument between an overbearing parent and an irresponsible child.
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This. There's definitely an element of de-personization, but no real de-humanization, and it's evident that Niko does care about Hijiri to some extent.
 
Reorganization with less anger at the forefront. Plus some bits shamelessly stolen from Onmur.

[X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
[X] Intervene
[X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
- [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
- [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. Regardless of what she's done she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
- [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or put it off and interrogate Hijiri a to give her a chance to prove her bonafides.
[X] Convince Hijiri to give up the memory field. Even as a bargaining chip, it's worse than useless to her at the moment. Offer her collateral if you must.
[X] Cleanse.

Bah, out of time.

If anyone has thoughts, especially about the final subportion for offering a choice of how Niko and Hijiri would like to go forwards, I'd very much like to hear them.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Reorganization with less anger at the forefront. Plus some bits shamelessly stolen from Onmur.

[X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
[X] Intervene
[X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
- [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
- [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. Regardless of what she's done she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
- [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or put it off and interrogate Hijiri a to give her a chance to prove her bonafides.
[X] Convince Hijiri to give up the memory field. Even as a bargaining chip, it's worse than useless to her at the moment. Offer her collateral if you must.
[X] Cleanse.

Bah, out of time.

If anyone has thoughts, especially about the final subportion for offering a choice of how Niko and Hijiri would like to go forwards, I'd very much like to hear them.
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What do you mean by offer her collateral?
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by defenestrator on Nov 6, 2017 at 10:21 AM, finished with 128340 posts and 28 votes.
  • [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now, it's the person she's treating like a thing."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Get rid of memory device. Physically separate. Stay between them. Cleanse.
    [X] To Niko:
    -[X] What you're doing is wrong. Hitting someone who can't do anything about it, otherwise your friends might beat them down? In what world is that acceptable? Is that the sort of person you want to be? You want her to be happy, and you do this?
    -[X] She isn't you. She's her own person, and she's scared to death of you, enough to get caught up in all... this. Is that what you want?
    [X] Stand your ground, observe.
    -[X] Calmly, out loud but quiet: Saki is not aware of the full context here. Certainly Niko can "handle herself," but Niko and Hijiri misunderstand each other in a way that makes this volatile and toxic. You're not leaving until you're certain that Hijiri isn't going to end up in a grief spiral.
    [X] Short update; break at any point where Niko says or does something really not okay to Hijiri (or potentially vice versa) -- crying, threats, Niko ordering Hijiri to do something, Niko getting physical again, etc are all really not okay.
    -[X] Break by immediately stepping in; forcibly separate the two if you have to.
    [x] Null
    [x] Don't even dignify Saki with a response. If she doesn't see how wrong she is, it's not worth it.
    [x] Brainmail Kazumi: "Hopefully be with you in a few but things are way toxic down here and we've let it go too far already."
    [x] Enlist Mami and Sayaka's help to separate them and deescalate. Again. Jerry Springer is not a model to emulate!
    -[x] Fuck it, Sayaka, antimagic. This paranoia over memory bullshit and what precisely the device does has gone far too long. It can be rebuilt.
    -[x] Quiet down, don't make me get the spray bottle.
    -[x] Saki will probably interfere more insistently. "I'm sure you mean well, Saki, but I will NOT allow this to become a lynching."
    [X] Telepathy Saki and Kazumi: Niko just hit a defenseless prisoner, is verbally abusing her and treating her like an object. This is bad for both Hijiri and Niko.
    -[X] Ask for help in calming down the Kannas and helping solve this civilly.
    -[X] If they won't help, apologize, but you can't just let abuse happen.
    [X] Let some of your conflict through and call out Niko.
    -[X] Be disappointed: Same points made to Saki and Kazumi.
    [X] Hijiri: She might've done something wrong, but she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
    -[X] Ask her to give up the Privacy Device: It's not helping her.
    -[X] We want to help both of them. Ask Hijiri to let you mediate.
    [X] Send in the chibis - All the chibis! Even Chibis of Meguca we have yet to meet.
    -[X] Have them hug every Niko they see.
    [X] No, slapping and yelling doesn't end well. And we're not leaving them alone, that's a recipe for evil-clone shenanigans.
    [X] Interject, tell Hijiri that created doesn't mean "fake" and argue the point briefly.
    -[X] Niko and Hijiri are scientists. Empiricism, then: What is the observable difference? Hijiri can't tell that you woke up in an alley with no memories and a giant hole in your chest not three weeks ago, you can't tell that Hijiri is anything but normal.
    [X] Break to voting after seeing the reactions to that line.
    [X] Telepathy Mami to be ready to restrain Saki if necessary; brush her off with the utility fog.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now, it's the person she's treating like a thing."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Physically separate. Cleanse.
    -[X] Warn Hijiri that this exact brand of horseshit is dangerous for her; if she won't step away from the device so that we can cleanse her, we'll have to take it from her.
    [X] Talk down Kazumi first, then the Kannas; this is absolutely unacceptable.
    [X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
    - [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
    - [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. Regardless of what she's done she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
    - [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or put it off and interrogate Hijiri a to give her a chance to prove her bonafides.
    [X] Convince Hijiri to give up the memory field. Even as a bargaining chip, it's worse than useless to her at the moment. Offer her collateral if you must.
    [X] Cleanse.
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How exactly do we get rid of the memory device? It would be best if Hiriji gets rid of it on her own, but it kinda prevents us from getting too close and interferes with direct gem cleansing which is something both Niko and Hijiri will probably need. Would Sayaka anti-magicing them work and make it fizz out?
 
Guilop said:
How exactly do we get rid of the memory device? It would be best if Hiriji gets rid of it on her own, but it kinda prevents us from getting too close and interferes with direct gem cleansing which is something both Niko and Hijiri will probably need. Would Sayaka anti-magicing them work and make it fizz out?
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There's a chance Anti Magic might affect Hijiri as badly as it affects Sabrina.

Also, yes it would be better if Hijiri gave it up on her own.
 
So, someone pointed out...
Firnagzen said:
"Who?" you ask, stomach going abruptly into freefall. You feel like you know the answer already.

"Yuuri," Hijiri says. "That's- that's what she said her name was."

"Who-" Saki's eyebrows all but meet in the center of her forehead as she realises. "Yuuri."

"That's her!" Hijiri says, suddenly eager to please. "She- we broke into her lab, and she let me have the memory device when I figured out what it was."
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Firnagzen said:
"Yeah," you say to Niko. "I'm sorry, Niko. But... what do you think. Plausible? Do you think we should still be searching for Anrii, just in case?"

At the same time, you nod at Hijiri. "Look. We're not after you, specifically, we're after whomever attacked our friends."

"I... I might lie to cover my tracks," Niko admits. "Under similar circumstances. But... the best lies have a kernel of truth."

"Damn," Kazumi hisses. "Miss Oriko, Miss Kirika, are you still there?"

"Yes," Oriko responds. "We'll continue searching, but we cannot cover ground as quickly."

"Us too," Umika says. "We'll keep searching, right, Satomi?"

"Ask her if she knows where Anri went," Kazumi says sharply. "Might be worth a try."

"Where did she go?" Saki snaps, focusing on Hijiri.

"Anri? She- she went south-east," Hijiri says. "I think- I'm not sure she stayed in the city. She said something about laying low."
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Might be a typo, might be Hijiri listening into the conversation, might be a slip...
 
[X] Disable the Memory Field safely.
-[X] Ask Sayaka if she can focus the antimagic to a beam.
[X] Send in the chibis - All the chibis! Even Chibis of Meguca we have yet to meet.
-[X] Have them hug every Kanna they see.

What joke vote? I was serious about intervening, and one or both of the fighters can create clones to avoid being pinned too easily.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Nov 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, finished with 128377 posts and 33 votes.
  • [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now, it's the person she's treating like a thing."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Get rid of memory device. Physically separate. Stay between them. Cleanse.
    [X] To Niko:
    -[X] What you're doing is wrong. Hitting someone who can't do anything about it, otherwise your friends might beat them down? In what world is that acceptable? Is that the sort of person you want to be? You want her to be happy, and you do this?
    -[X] She isn't you. She's her own person, and she's scared to death of you, enough to get caught up in all... this. Is that what you want?
    [X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
    [X] Intervene. Get Sayaka's help if necessary.
    [X] Mami's new role is to try to deescalate Kazusa when she lands. She knows Kazusa better than any of us.
    [X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
    - [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
    - [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. She's our detainee, and she has rights. She deserves to be treated humanely. She's not a thing; she's Niko's sister, for better or for worse.
    - [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or skip straight to the questioning.
    [X] The Memory field has to go. We can't cleanse either of them while they're in there, and the last thing we need is for the two of them to get hyped up on grief and start flaying each other alive. We'd like it if Hijiri could just drop the thing, since it's useless to her now anyway.
    [X] Cleanse.
    [X] If Kazumi or Saki tries to interfere, point out that Niko was abusing Hijiri when Hijiri had no chance to fight back. We aren't her friend, but we'll be her defense lawyer if need be.
    [X] Stand your ground, observe.
    -[X] Calmly, out loud but quiet: Saki is not aware of the full context here. Certainly Niko can "handle herself," but Niko and Hijiri misunderstand each other in a way that makes this volatile and toxic. You're not leaving until you're certain that Hijiri isn't going to end up in a grief spiral.
    [X] Short update; break at any point where Niko says or does something really not okay to Hijiri (or potentially vice versa) -- crying, threats, Niko ordering Hijiri to do something, Niko getting physical again, etc are all really not okay.
    -[X] Break by immediately stepping in; forcibly separate the two if you have to.
    [x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Saki, chew her out for condoning Niko's behavior.
    [x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Kazumi, keep her from coming in angry and worsening the situation. Enlist Mami's assistance if necessary.
    [x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Sayaka, tell her to start keeping an eye on the Pleiades, too - they're losing control.
    [x] Simultaneously: Use utility fog to get Saki's hand off your shoulder. Move to present body language separating the parties and protecting Hijiri.
    [x] Simultaneously: Command Niko out of the memory field so you can cleanse her. Keep her from moving back in.
    [x] Excoriate Niko for attacking Hijiri. That was totally unacceptable for so many reasons.
    -[x] Look at how terrified Hijiri is. Does Niko want to be the kind of person that brings all her friends to beat up a helpless victim?
    -[x] The biggest thing denying Hijiri a peaceful life right now is Niko assaulting her.
    [x] Tell Niko and Hijiri that you promise you will find a way for everyone to live peacefully. That is what your wish was for. That is what everything you do is for. That is why you exist.
    [x] But - Hijiri can't live peacefully if she feels like Niko is trying to dictate her life for her. Emphasize to Niko that Hijiri is her own person.
    [x] Tell Hijiri that, as shit as Niko may be at explaining it, she did wish for Hijiri to be able to be happy. Seeing Hijiri apparently reject that hurt her badly and she's not handling it very well.
    [x] Reiterate your promise of a peaceful life - if all else fails, Hijiri wouldn't be the first refugee seeking peace in Mitakihara. Better solutions exist, but even in the worst case you can and will deliver.
    [x] If you get a chance, get rid of the memory device. Hijiri needs a different kind of protection right now.
    [x] Null
    [X] No, slapping and yelling doesn't end well. And we're not leaving them alone, that's a recipe for evil-clone shenanigans.
    [X] Interject, tell Hijiri that created doesn't mean "fake" and argue the point briefly.
    -[X] Niko and Hijiri are scientists. Empiricism, then: What is the observable difference? Hijiri can't tell that you woke up in an alley with no memories and a giant hole in your chest not three weeks ago, you can't tell that Hijiri is anything but normal.
    [X] Break to voting after seeing the reactions to that line.
    [x] Don't even dignify Saki with a response. If she doesn't see how wrong she is, it's not worth it.
    [x] Brainmail Kazumi: "Hopefully be with you in a few but things are way toxic down here and we've let it go too far already."
    [x] Enlist Mami and Sayaka's help to separate them and deescalate. Again. Jerry Springer is not a model to emulate!
    -[x] Fuck it, Sayaka, antimagic. This paranoia over memory bullshit and what precisely the device does has gone far too long. It can be rebuilt.
    -[x] Quiet down, don't make me get the spray bottle.
    -[x] Saki will probably interfere more insistently. "I'm sure you mean well, Saki, but I will NOT allow this to become a lynching."
    [X] Telepathy Mami to be ready to restrain Saki if necessary; brush her off with the utility fog.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now, it's the person she's treating like a thing."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Physically separate. Cleanse.
    -[X] Warn Hijiri that this exact brand of horseshit is dangerous for her; if she won't step away from the device so that we can cleanse her, we'll have to take it from her.
    [X] Talk down Kazumi first, then the Kannas; this is absolutely unacceptable.
    [X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
    [X] Intervene.
    [X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
    - [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
    - [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. Regardless of what she's done she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
    - [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or put it off and interrogate Hijiri a to give her a chance to prove her bonafides.
    [X] Convince Hijiri to give up the memory field. Even as a bargaining chip, it's worse than useless to her at the moment. Offer her collateral if you must.
    [X] Cleanse.
    [X] Disable the Memory Field safely.
    -[X] Ask Sayaka if she can focus the antimagic to a beam.
    [X] Send in the chibis - All the chibis! Even Chibis of Meguca we have yet to meet.
    -[X] Have them hug every Kanna they see.
    [X] Calm down Sabrina. Alright, let's do this.
    [X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
    [X] Hypervene Intervene. Get Sayaka's help if necessary.
    [X] Mami's new role is to try to deescalate Kazusa when she lands. She knows Kazusa better than any of us.
    [X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
    - [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
    - [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. She deserves to be treated humanely. She's not a thing; she's Niko's sister.
    - [X] The memory field has to go. We can't cleanse either of them while they're in there, and the last thing we need is for the two of them to get hyped up on grief and start flaying each other alive. It's not doing Hijiri any good right now anyway. If she gives it up as a show of good faith, then we can help her find a solution to this mess.
    [X] Cleanse.
    [X] Mediate. Rephrase their sentences to each other so nothing is lost in shouted translation.
    - [X] No hitting. Hitting is bad, so make sure they don't hit each other.
    - [X] Let them explain themselves. Gotta understand each other to agree or compromise, y'know?
    [X] If Kazumi or Saki tries to interfere, point out that Niko was abusing Hijiri when Hijiri had no chance to fight back. That's mean. Hijiri is terrified. And look, we look like we're ganging up on her.
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Muramasa said:
What do you mean by offer her collateral?
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While it's probably not what Phoenixian was think of, if she gave up the memory device then we wouldn't have to keep her encased from the neck down just to keep her from fleeing or attacking. We could offer to make her more comfortable with minimal restraints in exchange for the device.
 
The Narrator said:
There is such a thing as reverse interrogation, in which the prisoner learns more from the questions being asked than the captor learns from their answers. If the only names she's given us are ones that we've let slip first, then she might be playing us.
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That was the first thing I checked. The name "Anri" has never been knowingly spoken in her presence by us. Assuming this isn't just a mistake, the only times she could have heard it are when we were talking about known threats in a privacy bubble or immediately prior in telepathic conversion.

And then there's her canon wish to connect to the Pleiades Saints without them noticing... Could this be an application of her wish magic? Passive eavesdropping of their telepathy?

@Firnagzen, could you please address whether it was intentional or an accident on your part to have Hijiri refer to Yuuri as Anri?
 
TIL that Sabrina the Teen witch was meant to be an artificial human before being retconned to have parents. :D
 
Gonna try to merge the bandwagons

[X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
[X] Intervene. Get Sayaka's help if necessary.
[X] Mami's new role is to try to deescalate Kazusa when she lands. She knows Kazusa better than any of us.
[X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
- [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
- [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. She's our detainee, and she has rights. She deserves to be treated humanely. She's not a thing; she's Niko's sister, for better or for worse.
- [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or skip straight to the questioning.
[X] The Memory field has to go. We can't cleanse either of them while they're in there, and the last thing we need is for the two of them to get hyped up on grief and start flaying each other alive. Hijiri can drop it or we can get Sayaka to break it. It's useless to her now anyway.
[X] Cleanse.

[X] If Kazumi or Saki tries to interfere, point out that Niko was abusing Hijiri when Hijiri had no chance to fight back. We aren't her friend, but we'll be her defense lawyer if need be.
 
[X] The Phoenixian

The Phoenixian said:
[X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
[X] Intervene
[X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
- [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
- [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. Regardless of what she's done she has feelings just like anyone else. She deserves to be treated humanely.
- [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or put it off and interrogate Hijiri a to give her a chance to prove her bonafides.
[X] Convince Hijiri to give up the memory field. Even as a bargaining chip, it's worse than useless to her at the moment. Offer her collateral if you must.
[X] Cleanse.
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Though I'm not sure about 'separating' them. It might be taken as a rather hostile action.

Also, collateral?
 
Karnewarrior said:
Gonna try to merge the bandwagons

[X] Keep your anger as contained as you can manage.
[X] "It's not Niko I'm worried about right now. Hijiri's afraid she's being treated as an extension of Niko, as an object, and Niko is playing into that fear."
[X] Intervene. Get Sayaka's help if necessary.
[X] Mami's new role is to try to deescalate Kazusa when she lands. She knows Kazusa better than any of us.
[X] Separate the two of them. Deescalate.
- [X] If Niko objects, give her your reasons for intervening. Both personally, as pertains to what exactly she's doing and practically.
- [X] Try to calm Hijiri down. She's our detainee, and she has rights. She deserves to be treated humanely. She's not a thing; she's Niko's sister, for better or for worse.
- [X] Offer the two of them a choice, you can have someone mediate this discussion civilly, or skip straight to the questioning.
[X] The Memory field has to go. We can't cleanse either of them while they're in there, and the last thing we need is for the two of them to get hyped up on grief and start flaying each other alive. Hijiri can drop it or we can get Sayaka to break it. It's useless to her now anyway.
[X] Cleanse.

[X] If Kazumi or Saki tries to interfere, point out that Niko was abusing Hijiri when Hijiri had no chance to fight back. We aren't her friend, but we'll be her defense lawyer if need be.
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Now that is a vote I can get behind! As far as I can tell, it covers all of our bases, and has us intervening without being too furious.

Switching vote to

[X] Karnewarrior
 
[x] Karnewarrior

It's a vote that tries to deescalate the situation instead of escalating it.

I would prefer not to end up in a fight with the Pleiades. It wouldn't be an easy fight to win, and fighting Kazumi would be incredibly traumatic for Mami.


Onmur said:
She's not restrained right now.
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I thought we only freed one hand so she could clean her own gem?

I checked and apparently Hijiri had us let her go when she arrived. Which... is really dangerous considering her abilities and the effects of the memory field, which will make it really hard to get her under control again.
 
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Karnewarrior said:
[X] The Memory field has to go. We can't cleanse either of them while they're in there, and the last thing we need is for the two of them to get hyped up on grief and start flaying each other alive. Hijiri can drop it or we can get Sayaka to break it. It's useless to her now anyway.
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This is incredibly unhelpful language to be using when you're trying to deescalate a situation.
 
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