[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
 
@Simon_Jester
Not really, if it would unbalance the fleet too much I simply opt to add the skirmish ship to both phases of the battle *shrug*
Well, what I'm getting at is that in the old "whole fleet fights whole battle" system, there was a very simple balance that could be tweaked to influence how well small ships perform against large, and whether it's worth building large ships, small ships, or a mix of the two.

Now, there isn't, especially if small and large ships never confront one another directly, even in relatively small battles where this means that one side's commander is inexplicably ordering half their force to just not participate in the main phase of the combat.

It's... an extremely drastic change in the basic assumptions that underlie how people build fleets, after we've already built our fleet. And we don't really even know, in any rigorous sense, how the balance effects things.

It used to be we had a pretty good idea of the relative worth of two Miranda-As and one Excelsior in combat- they have roughly equal stats, so they contribute more or less the same. Now, the contributions from the Mirandas and the Excelsior aren't even commensurate, they don't do the same things. Insofar as what the Mirandas do benefits the Excelsiors' part of the fight, the benefit is going to be complex, situational, and hard to account for. Swapping out one Excelsior for two Mirandas to a fleet that has five Excelsiors and no frigates might be highly beneficial... but then again, it might be highly counterproductive. We can't know. And any conclusions we draw about that situation would be invalid in the context of "three explorers four frigates" or "one explorer eight frigates."

So since we're precommitted to this idea that it's actually productive to have a mix of light and heavy ships in the same fleet... Has this combat engine been playtested to make sure that's actually true?
 
Actually, I may be confused. I'm not sure if Oneiros is saying that light ships do not or cannot participate in the main clash, or if they do so infrequently, or what.
 
Actually, I may be confused. I'm not sure if Oneiros is saying that light ships do not or cannot participate in the main clash, or if they do so infrequently, or what.
I'm saying the presumption is that the lighter ships have already been played out during the skirmish/vanguard phases, so it is time to let the fresh ships work as the skirmishers pull back.

However: I still manually assign the phases rather than doing so automatically to avoid perverse outcomes. As a result: not all small ships go into the skirmish line. Not all skirmish line ships do pull back. I balance it.
 
I'm saying the presumption is that the lighter ships have already been played out during the skirmish/vanguard phases, so it is time to let the fresh ships work as the skirmishers pull back.

However: I still manually assign the phases rather than doing so automatically to avoid perverse outcomes. As a result: not all small ships go into the skirmish line. Not all skirmish line ships do pull back. I balance it.
What about having the skirmish make retreat rolls instead, and fighting at a penalty to simulate them being played out?

Or assign more weight to the retreat option for the skirmish ships once the heavies arrive.

Torpedo charge and flanking run sound great. Will these be added to the doctrine tree?
 
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich

Y'all, is it beyond us to make sure the the Rigellian [IND2] heavy team is fixing the Megatortoise? :p

Ka'Sharren in TF2 is down two ships, the Hood and the Winterwind. It makes more sense to send TF1 to support, which is down no ships.
???

I'm pretty sure the Winterwind is fine. Are you thinking the Blizzard? That's Thiur's.

[lol a blizzard is a winterwind, if we're mixing this up there is no way other member species aren't having trouble when you add Yukikaze to the mix]
 
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[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich

Y'all, is it beyond us to make sure the the Rigellian [IND2] heavy team is fixing the Megatortoise? :p


???

I'm pretty sure the Winterwind is fine. Are you thinking the Blizzard? That's Thiur's.

[lol a blizzard is a winterwind, if we're mixing this up there is no way other member species aren't having trouble when you add Yukikaze to the mix]
I like this.

[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich

He's in navigation, he's also a recent enlistee in Starfleet. I like "spacer" a lot more than "crewman" and it has the advantage of being gender-neutral, so I think I'll stick with it for now.

Sorry. I think literally all the pushback you received was based on those of us who badly misunderstood what you were trying to accomplish.

Okay, fair enough. Spacer doesn't quite have the same feel as Private though.
 
on no less than two occasions the Radlawxa blew up,

Would've been worth it if Lwaxana herself had been aboard.

He turns around and the image of a large installation built into the surface of a moon appears on the viewscreen behind him. "The Anoxa, a super-weapon built into the moon of Gammon itself, Naravonn. We need to take this out of commission before any advance on Gammon can be contemplated. Sisters, brothers, this is likely to be the most dangerous, elaborate mission that Starfleet Intelligence has attempted in a very long count of years, and one of the most crucial. This is a dangerous mission, and one that can easily become a one-way suicide run if we fail to execute it with precision."

Please tell me their callsign is Rogue One or something else suitably pop-culture.
 
They probably pronounce the names phonetically, untranslated, just like we do with most alien ships.
I see the USS Ne Pas Amusement Permis has arrived in-system on schedule. :p

If some level of translation doesn't occur than explain the Scimitar! Checkmate, atheists

As I've said before this probably only happens with a subset of weirdos who set the literl translation setting on their translators to 'rly high'.

Would've been worth it if Lwaxana herself had been aboard.
I cannot be the only man in the fandom who thinks Lwaxana is baller af
 
I see the USS Ne Pas Amusement Permis has arrived in-system on schedule. :p

If some level of translation doesn't occur than explain the Scimitar! Checkmate, atheists

As I've said before this probably only happens with a subset of weirdos who set the literl translation setting on their translators to 'rly high'.


I cannot be the only man in the fandom who thinks Lwaxana is baller af
Lwaxana's pretty cool. I mean, she can be annoying at times, but that's true of most characters.
 
[ ][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[ ][IXIRA] Order Task Force 2 to join the attack
[ ][IXIRA] Launch the attack on Gammon immediately to draw off forces
[ ][IXIRA] Offer no aid

[Ked Paddah attack force: 2 Modern Capital, 2 Old Capital, 6 Modern Frigates, 2 Old Frigates - roughly half of available forces]

So if we send Task Force 1 to aid the Ixira attack, we're going to double their heavy metal.

Sarek + Excelsior (Excelsiors = "modern capital"), Lexington and Krinuk (Constitution-B = "old capital"). Then we'd add 3 frigates, the Lightning, the Calgary, and the Torbriel.

11 Frigates ought to decisively win the skirmish phase... I can't imagine that Ixira will be about to muster more than half that many. Nor are they likely to have more than a couple of cruisers to face off against 8 heavy ships. It's those fixed defenses that are going to be brutal.

That's a big reason to send TF1 to support directly. It simply makes it more likely that the strike wins.
 
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich

Y'all, is it beyond us to make sure the the Rigellian [IND2] heavy team is fixing the Megatortoise? :p
I favor using them to rush the construction of the second mega tortise
 
Basically, we could go for the 2-pronged attack, or combine forces at each objective.
 
Also, lol, Q2 sees the repair of Courageous, and Kumari, the completion of Pathfinder, and Sojourner, and the completion of the last Starfleet Connie-B I'll need to come up with a name for. That's some decent heavy metal rejoining the fray.
...
@Simon_Jester, got a name in mind for the Connie-B? NCC-1752.
We've been pushing Huáscar almost forever on this. (If there was another one, it would have probably been Mikasa.)
This. Very much this. I don't know if I initiated that push or not, but Huáscar is one of the Anglosphere's most oft-forgotten hero ships.

It also allows us to keep the "old Earth warships" theme that the Constitutions really did have in TOS, in all its glory, while recognizing that "Earth" isn't the same as "English-speaking world." Latin America may have mostly sat out the World Wars, but that doesn't mean they have no stories to tell.

And yeah, there isn't any ConnieBee I'd want to rename, but if I had just one more I'd want both Huáscar AND either Mikasa or Kongo (the latter is even a canon name for a TOS-era Connie!)

[Note: Mikasa and Kongo are both fine names, and there is strong canon support for Kongo in particular. That said, if you pick Kongo you WILL get Kantai Collection jokes, to go with our RWBY, Dune, and My Little Pony jokes. It is inevitable, and whether it is good or bad I cannot say.]



I favor using them to rush the construction of the second mega tortise
Which gets us a fresh megatortoise faster? Rushing completion of the one that's still being built, or rushing repairs of the one that just got its shell dented?

I'm saying the presumption is that the lighter ships have already been played out during the skirmish/vanguard phases, so it is time to let the fresh ships work as the skirmishers pull back.

However: I still manually assign the phases rather than doing so automatically to avoid perverse outcomes. As a result: not all small ships go into the skirmish line. Not all skirmish line ships do pull back. I balance it.
That's... extremely reassuring. :) I think the idea of making it situational and/or dependent on retreat rolls makes a lot of sense. It's perfectly reasonable for some small ships to get out of the skirmish line, it's just a thing that has the potential to be counterproductive* or disastrous** if there isn't a sensible shark with his fin on the tiller.
_________________

*For instance, a situation like this recent battle- say, two explorers and five frigates show up to fight an outpost and two frigates. The five frigates will almost certainly win any skirmishing handily with relatively minimal damage, and at least three or four of them are in fighting shape. If those extra frigates show up to help the explorers handle the outpost, the outpost battle will probably go very well for the attacker, with the attacker having overwhelming numbers, firepower, and probably a durability advantage. Without the frigates, the attacker has no durability edge (comparing most known explorers to an H12 L12 outpost), and only a limited firepower advantage.

**For instance, something like Apiata or presumably Klingon doctrine, where they build so many small ships that their entire fleet design doctrine is invalidated unless they're able to press on into the main offensive using 'swarm' tactics to mob heavier enemy ships two-on-one or more.



Would've been worth it if Lwaxana herself had been aboard.
She's a ten year old child, give or take a year. There's still time to hope she grows up not-insufferable.

They probably pronounce the names phonetically, untranslated, just like we do with most alien ships.
Headcanon: All our 'winter storm' themed escort names are actually Andorian names. Because the Andorians have like eleven jillion names for 'snowstorm.'
 
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And yeah, there isn't any ConnieBee I'd want to rename, but if I had just one more I'd want both Huáscar AND either Mikasa or Kongo (the latter is even a canon name for a TOS-era Connie!)

Could always go for Hiei instead. Not many Japanese ships actually have great names when you translate them, but naming a spaceship "The Cold" has just the right combination of poetry and menace.
 
Honestly, my preference has always been to either stick with canon TOS Connie names, or to take ships from Earth history that were absolutely flipping legendary in their culture of origin. Kongo qualifies under the former, Huáscar or Mikasa under the former. Hiei, I'm not so sure about.
 
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