- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Not his call. Seers pick Scions.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Then sadly us not being a warrior also isn't his call.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
That's changing goalposts though. You're acting like he shouldn't have picked us as scion- when he didn't- if he didn't want us to be a warrior.
It's also missing that Berra's issue is explicitly our status as a child, which Mato is an even younger child, if I'm not mistaken. A 'problem' that will pass in time, and unavoidable.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Honestly, I think Berra's got about the best approach possible.
Sounds like he made a mistake borne out of his parental instincts and viewpoints being stronger than his Lordly instincts and viewpoints. Which...is pretty understandable.
It's almost like he's actually a pretty decent person who loves his daughter!
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
There are a lot of ways to do that without being, instinctively, a warrior. A good leader spends a lot more time organizing things than punching things, no matter how powerful they are.
I could live with that- but given that Pacifist is a foundational trait, I wouldn't expect it to get flipped off like a light switch that easily. The "violence is the answer" vote choice might blow away Pacifist entirely, but "I need to think" really, really shouldn't.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
My point still stands, even if it's not his choice and he doesn't want us to be a warrior it is already our fate.
Didn't he basically spend several years snubbing his preteen daughter and she had to be the bigger person and mend the bridges? not to mention his ongoing neglect of Mato and possibly the other siblings.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I voted the 'I need to think' option because I'd like to see Kakara actually conclude, on deeper analysis, that 'pacifism is right, but I was going in unprepared for the difficulty' type of thing, rather than... mentally sweeping the problems under the rug or something.
... And I'm not even really attached to the idea of her as a pacifist, per se.
And why are you assuming we were picked as Scion to be a warrior?
Kakara is in an emotionally and mentally unstable state right now, however. Sudden shifts in traits, especially foundational ones, require extreme stresses. Guess what Kakara is going through right now?
Mind, I don't actually think that'll be the case, but it's a possibility. It's possible all options are shit, and just the starting point for a long, slow recovery that leads down different routes.
"Being a warrior" is not actually part of the criteria to our knowledge.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Say, what happens when someone besides a lord or scion of house goku or vegeta goes super saiyan?
The job of a scion and lord is to defend Exiles from any threat.
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Depends on the reason and cause! <- The literal answer.
And the job is actually "to keep a bunch of fight-happy monkeys from blowing up the planet, directly or indirectly".
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah. The obvious examples of people who are more about being a clan lord than they are about being a parent are, well... Lord Yanmar (who broke his son's mind by forcing him to participate in the torture and execution of House Talt), and Lord Vegeta (who was obsessed with his son's power level and otherwise a vicious, abusive ogre of a man).
There are a lot of things I can say about his treatment of Mato, some of which I've already said, but the fundamental point to make is that loving your child does not automatically make you a good parent. A parent can love their children dearly but be unable to have productive conversations with them. A parent can love their child dearly and fail to understand their needs. There are a lot of ways that a human being (or saiyan) can fail as a parent, and not all of them boil down to "He is an idiot" or "she doesn't love her child enough."
And "spent several years snubbing his preteen daughter" strikes me as a grossly unfair characterization of the situation. A lot of children, again, have deteriorating relationships with their parents, it is not automatically a sign of defective character on the parent's fault. Good parenting skills tend to repair such relationships, but there is (again) a difference between "Berra loves his children" and "Berra is always a good father to his children).
Yeah. Besides, if Seers pick Scions, then they picked two Scions for this generation. And the other was was Jaffur...
I'm pretty sure that whatever Kakara was selected for it was not for pure martial prowess. That would be kind of redundant.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Two warriors are better than one, do you also think it'd be redundant if jaffur had a lot a social skill? and non-combat skills?
Did he even try though? you could argue that he's made mistakes because of being unskilled but the most damning thing has been his inaction, you could say he's always busy but then there's specific choices he made in spending his time with his family that widened the divide like training Mato in oozaru only because he was mad at karkara
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
Sensible choice.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Healthy progression of thought after doing something heavily against your own values. Going for the 'no one has to die' vote seems more like wallpapering over the probleml and ignoring it instead working through it.
Sensible choice.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Healthy progression of thought after doing something heavily against your own values. Going for the 'no one has to die' vote seems more like wallpapering over the probleml and ignoring it instead working through it.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Basically this. Berra didn't "snub" Kakara, he just didn't know how to deal with the pain and rift between them, and he was afraid of making it worse and hurting her worse. He was in a situation that's not really very typical for parents in general, it's understandable to have problems.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
@Carrnage your bias is showing. Again.
It wasn't several years that he was fighting his daughter. It was less than one and Kakara was the one that pulled away, even if how he handled it later left a lot to be desired.
He didn't say he didn't want us to be a warrior. He said that if Kakara didn't want to be a warrior then she shouldn't force herself to be one just because others think she should be one.
A Lord's duty is to defend and rule. The first can be done by preventing it coming to that and the second is not necessary to be a warrior to do it.
In case of super saiyan rebellion, the fact that the Lords keep how to become FPSS secret ensures they akways keep power level superiority by a huge amount. Skilled warriors Yanmar and Vegeta are but you need more than that to beat a whole House of super saiyans.
Yes, two warriors are better than one when they need to fight. When the issue is ruling, not so much. Saying that Jaffur is a combat specialist is not about having redundant skills being bad but that we have someone who covers our weakness while we cover their own. The Scions come as a pair.
Mato feels neglected because of the heavy focus on Kakara which is Berra's job. Yes, a big part of it is Berr's fault. He is not perfect but he tried to reach to Kakara just to be rebuffed, got into arguments with her constantly in big part because of her passive agressive attitude and while he failed when he let his feelings get in the way he was extremely quick about consoling her and claim all the fault because he was the adult.
Which, frankly, is something that is of some concern to me. Kakara has the excuse that she is a child for making mistakes and Berra has the reason of him being an adult to have to be the bigger person and somewhat absolving her of responsability. But the playerbase is older than Kakara. We don't have her excuse to be unreasonable or to not trying to see the other's perspective. We don't have the excuse to ignore that, sometimes, she can be a brat or make mistakes and then dumping all the blame on him.
You know, it is starting to feel as if you are twisting what happens on purposein order to bash Berra.
It wasn't several years that he was fighting his daughter. It was less than one and Kakara was the one that pulled away, even if how he handled it later left a lot to be desired.
He didn't say he didn't want us to be a warrior. He said that if Kakara didn't want to be a warrior then she shouldn't force herself to be one just because others think she should be one.
A Lord's duty is to defend and rule. The first can be done by preventing it coming to that and the second is not necessary to be a warrior to do it.
In case of super saiyan rebellion, the fact that the Lords keep how to become FPSS secret ensures they akways keep power level superiority by a huge amount. Skilled warriors Yanmar and Vegeta are but you need more than that to beat a whole House of super saiyans.
Yes, two warriors are better than one when they need to fight. When the issue is ruling, not so much. Saying that Jaffur is a combat specialist is not about having redundant skills being bad but that we have someone who covers our weakness while we cover their own. The Scions come as a pair.
Mato feels neglected because of the heavy focus on Kakara which is Berra's job. Yes, a big part of it is Berr's fault. He is not perfect but he tried to reach to Kakara just to be rebuffed, got into arguments with her constantly in big part because of her passive agressive attitude and while he failed when he let his feelings get in the way he was extremely quick about consoling her and claim all the fault because he was the adult.
Which, frankly, is something that is of some concern to me. Kakara has the excuse that she is a child for making mistakes and Berra has the reason of him being an adult to have to be the bigger person and somewhat absolving her of responsability. But the playerbase is older than Kakara. We don't have her excuse to be unreasonable or to not trying to see the other's perspective. We don't have the excuse to ignore that, sometimes, she can be a brat or make mistakes and then dumping all the blame on him.
You know, it is starting to feel as if you are twisting what happens on purposein order to bash Berra.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm not going to confirm or deny whether or not a vote will lead to a trait every time. Bad habit to get into.
Kakara knows for a fact that her father teaching Mato wasn't a simple matter of petty revenge. Berra made a mistake, yes, but it was not malicious. They had that discussion, way back when they reconciled.
Wasn't referring to that(specifically), but in general, such as whether this vote is something that Kakara arrives to right now or something she'll come to over the remainder of the year.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Which is why he stopped doing it the second he reconciled with Karkara? and where did i say it was out of revenge, petty or otherwise?
Just re-read it, really he is bad at parenting, his first actions was to try and defend his position then telling karkara she must understand, then he went back to acting like everything was normal, then he started avoiding karkara.
It feels like you are wrapping me in straw so you can bash me, I do not think Berra is a bad person i think he is a heavily flawed parent and ruler.
Thinking on Berra i think he has a trait which causes him to be really bad at dealing with his mistakes.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
talking strait here you say that, but your other posts read extremely bashy on this subject
just saying
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I have been a bit too vehement but such is the nature of arguments. really stepping back and examining Berra his biggest problems seem to stem from having issues dealing with past mistakes and either overcompensating or avoiding them.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think that given what an incessant repetition of this one note you've been playing, you would be arguing that Jaffur developing high social skills was redundant and a detraction from the pure awesomeness of his combat abilities.
Uncharitably, I suspect it'd go something like "Killing our enemies is what's important! Kakara can do all the namby-pamby soft stuff! And she does too much of it anyway! We should be making her fight more too, because one and a half warriors are better than one!"
Look. we could have been playing the belligerent Scion who develops amazing combat abilities left and right, while dealing with a father who's an objectively terrible person and should be cast aside at the first available moment. We call that game... "Jaffur Quest."
Instead we are playing the peaceful Scion with prodigious ki abilities and tremendous budding political skills, while dealing with a father who's an essentially decent person but once in a while makes a mistake like everyone else in the world. In other words, we're playing Kakara Quest.
I'm truly sorry if you're upset that we're not playing Jaffur Quest, with the martial prodigy of a Scion and the obvious, insanely villainous father.
But no amount of salt poured onto Kakara Quest is going to turn it into Jaffur Quest. You might as well stop trying; it's getting exhausting even reading the arguments that result from it.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's her immediate impression; this is what she decides right now.
You didn't explicitly, but your arguments are heated enough that it is difficult to believe the implication was accidental. He stopped doing it when he reconciled with her because the underlying cause of the unfairness was addressed and brought out into the open where it could be killed. Confronted with his mistake, he elected to stop making that mistake.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I apologise for any miscommunication on my part.
Dammit Berra, the problem wasn't you training Mato, it was that you lied to your daughter and deliberately avoided her, you've solved one problem but exacerbated another. Poor Mato.
Nope Jaffur needs good social skill. maybe not a specialisation if he winds up tying together the clans with karkara again but having huge blindspots is dangerous.
jaffur quest would be fucking boring i like pacifism.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It occurs to me...
That can of whoop-ass Jaffur unloaded on Lord Berra back in the 'prologue?' With the Kaio-Ken? The one that ended with Berra out cold with a scorch mark on his chest?
That can of whoop-ass was meant for Lord Vegeta. And I strongly suspect it would have been sufficient whoop-ass.
Of course Jaffur learned Kaio-Ken early. Of course Jaffur did everything in his power to develop a unique style to let him punch above his weight. All the remarkable features of Jaffur's combat techniques? They were ideally suited to letting him take down his father at the earliest possible age...
That can of whoop-ass Jaffur unloaded on Lord Berra back in the 'prologue?' With the Kaio-Ken? The one that ended with Berra out cold with a scorch mark on his chest?
That can of whoop-ass was meant for Lord Vegeta. And I strongly suspect it would have been sufficient whoop-ass.
Of course Jaffur learned Kaio-Ken early. Of course Jaffur did everything in his power to develop a unique style to let him punch above his weight. All the remarkable features of Jaffur's combat techniques? They were ideally suited to letting him take down his father at the earliest possible age...
Thank you SO MUCH I was worrying about that.
Then act like it, and stop pouring mountains of salt onto Kakara Quest and its pacifism and constantly treating pacifism like it's a weakness of Kakara's character that we need to train out of her.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
How about you actually read what i post more often, I have no problems with pacifism. the trait as it stands is flawed and both wastes time when serious combat is already in progress and, reduces Karkara's martial growth.
Also i will not stop "pouring salt" when you define it as disagreeing with you about a Currently relevant choice.
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