Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
There only needs to be one.
Also since people apparently seem to think pacisfist trait doesnt make us any weaker.
it explicitly does.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Also since people apparently seem to think pacisfist trait doesnt make us any weaker.
Rude and presumptuous.
I'm fairly sure facing sufficiently superior force would make him back down. But yeah, he's definitely on the "Kakara would likely end up killing" list.
...I have mentioned that Kakara will fight and/or kill if required, right?
And that training won't be negated as she gets older, nor will she become an absolute pacifist unless we deliberately make her so. It's the ideal, sure, but sometimes, someone needs to die, or at least receive a punch to the face.
Limit? Yes, to a degree. But we can minimize that, while maximizing out ability to be so. And yes, the enemy only has to "succeed once", that'd be the case no matter whether Kakara was fighting lethally or not.
And the limitation is "may", and quite frankly, Kakara's growth is limited anyway. So really, nothing new there.
Because I was very violent in my youth, and my name is a constant reminder of that?
Enemies becoming allies is a time-honoured Dragon Ball tradition!
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
We are not going to refuse to defend them. If someone is attacking our allies, as Kakara is now and even with the pacifist trait, the vote would be weighted in favor of fighting them. In case you forget, Pacifist is not the only trait we have.
We already saw some of those triggers. One when Dandeer talked shit about our family. The other when someone we cared about was in danger.
People. We already have the mechanism that favors violence as a last resort. Kakara is not defined by any 1 trait but by the sum of them. This one still applies regardless of our belief regarding pacifism.
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You're right. Nobody has to die. You'll make it so if that's not the case. That's always been your way; you hope for better. You won't stop now!
Frankly, given the nature of her failure, this feels like the conclusión she would draw even with all year to think about it. The issue, of course, would be what to do if we have to kill someone but that can be worked out. There still should be some time before Kakara faces someone on her relative weight class to créate a technique that helps with that and for weaker opponents she should be strong enough to intimidate into surrender like @Gore17 originally wanted. (On a totaly unrelated note, how come someone named Gore is the one that campaigns against violence?)
But your voting for the option that's going to cause... Ugh... Dude what your saying and what your voting for are contradictory...
And... Why to we have both Hot-blooded and Level-Headed... that does not make sense... Anyway... No we are going to defend them and get "Cognitive Dissonance" again.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Yes, but we don't automatically need to kill them.
Remember the brutal and almost murderous crane stylists Tien and Chiatzou who paralyzed someone so their buddy could beat them up quicker?
Goku dealt with Piccolo Jnr, who flat out said he'd return to conquer the world by giving him a Senzu Bean.
Same for Vegeta Vegeta who went to get immortality so he can get revenge on Earth and its people.
That doesn't make us actively weaker.
It just makes us slower to get stronger.
Theres a rather big difference.
Plus look how much use all our strength was just then
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
So if say... we came across a serious(proabably lethal) battle between hmm cabba and an alien, joining cabbas' side wouldnt be penalized?
So we also have a trait that makes us get into fights recklessly? Cool we should work on fixing that hwne it comes up next.
Having a problem with one trait =/= only having a problem with one trait.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
We got Cognitive Dissonance because we ran in and immediately attack.
We didn't call on them to stop, we didn't catch the fist and prevent them from moving while we talked.
Hell we didn't simply erect a Ki Barrier and stand in front of Cabba taking blows (yes, I know we don't have an Ki Barrer technique).
There are plenty of ways to enter a fight that don't involve running in and punching randomly, many of which would prevent the Dissonance.
Because nobody is perfectly one thing?
Clearly we are a typically very level headed person, until someone manages to hit that one issue. In which case we remind everyone that we are the strongest thing in several million miles.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Your logic is shite, a broad debuff to all combat training with an (unknown) chance to be permanently stunted barring exceptional circumstances is pretty fucking bad. Saying that everythings not perfect doesnt make it better.
Having two opposing ideals is generally called cognitive dissonance, we really should have gotten that trait sooner.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
He is too darn prideful...
And we get somekind of negetive status or trait for it....
It will and it seems to be going that way...
Really there are only three limits for Kakara's growth: Time, Need to keep power level's to a certain level and our pacifist trait.
Not all of them... I would say... about... 25-45% of them... Eh... Really depends on if you count the movies...
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
Real talk i like the idea of pacifism and think the world would be better if more people followed it, but karkaras version of it is incredibly flawed harmful to her growth and endangers her allies.
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
Real talk i like the idea of pacifism and think the world would be better if more people followed it, but karkaras version of it is incredibly flawed harmful to her growth and endangers her allies.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I am voting for the option which favors non agressive responses while acknowledging that Kakara has a personality trait that allows her to react violently in a situation such as her loved ones being in danger which is one of the situations that us, the players, feel like merits a violent response.
(Also, could you finish your thought rather than using elipsis so much? Otherwise I don't know what you think I said or what you are responding to, which makes it harder to argue and take more time to do so and is a cause for misunderstandings.
Because we are usually a level headed person but we have a few trigger issues. It says in the skill description of Hot-Blooded that it is only on certain topics, which is perfectly natural.
Well, that mostly depends on how the battle is going. I mean, do we have another option to finish this hypothetical battle without resorting to violence? Is Cabba about to die/completely outmatched or does he have the means to trivialy avoid that if it seems it will turn that way? Is the alien about to die or completely outmatched?
Does the trait text says it makes us get into fights recklessly? Or rather, are the situations in which it triggers those in which we don't want an aggressive response?
Level headed and Hot-blooded are not ideals but personality traits that apply to different situations though. I could be apathetic to most things but have a few topics I feel very strongly about yet most people would probably call me apathetic in that case without m being passionate about those few being any less true.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Many thanks! I'd forgotten Sensei was Gokun, probably because Kakara's response (in the following threadmark) was a Vegetan bow.
And given that Sensei's power level at max is 2-3 million (if I recall correctly), it does make sense that his 'resting' level would be much smaller than I said.
Thanks for the feedback, and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I hope we never have to redeem that bonus...
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Many thanks! I'd forgotten Sensei was Gokun, probably because Kakara's response (in the following threadmark) was a Vegetan bow.
And given that Sensei's power level at max is 2-3 million (if I recall correctly), it does make sense that his 'resting' level would be much smaller than I said.
Thanks for the feedback, and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I hope we never have to redeem that bonus...
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
*Bolded for emphasis*
While I'm not entirely against your point, I do want to point out that that bit about "especially in dragonball" is a little absurd... I mean, did you watch/read the Dragon Ball series? I mean, look at all the major bad guys in the later parts of the series. King Piccolo? Sadistic prick, had a whole "every day is the purge" thing going on there. Saiyan saga Vegeta and Nappa? The worst of all bad saiyan stereotypes. Frieza and every one of his minions who got a name and more than five minutes of screen time in the Namek saga? Jolly murdering assholes, the lot of them. Cell? Pretty much a collection of the worst parts of everyone who went into him... see above. And you've already called out Buu as a "murderbot", so I don't even have to say anything there. Heck, even minor villains like the androids and Garlic Jr. thought nothing about casually murdering people for their own amusement.
Now, don't think I'm trying to counter your stance or point or anything. But trying to use the dragonball canon setting to say that the universe isn't populated with sadistic murderhobos isn't going to help your point when canon shows us that one'll pop up practically every time you turn around if you're not careful.
PRE-POSTING EDIT:
Probably. I am writing this at 7 (PRE-POSTING EDIT: Now nearly 9... writing on a phone sucks.) in the morning after having no sleep at all, while on my phone, so I figured that absurdist wording in my post would substitute well enough for smilies to let everyone know that I wasn't taking this entirely seriously. Obviously this isn't the case. Bummer.
But since sleep seems to still be eluding me, let me clarify my position:
Right now, our illustrious author is giving us a quick and easy way out of the hole that we've dug ourselves into. We are being given a chance to make a quick choice that can deal with this pesky little conflicted mind we've got going on. We can either totally abandon pacifism, double down and leap back into pacifism head first, or not take the easy way out and admit that... maybe we don't know what the right answer is. That being said, taking that easy way is in and of itself a trap, at least how I see it. Let me explain.
The defining trait of Kakara so far has been that she's been the nonviolent saiyan. (Such as she can be. I still disagree with the current "definition" we're using for pacifist, and all the loopholes and drawbacks and such that go with it, but if I get into that I'd probably be awake until tomorrow morning, so I'll let it slide. That being said...) If we were to just drop the Pacifist trait wholesale, I feel we'd be doing a disservice to the character... the current vote choice insinuates that pacifism is stupid and that we were stupid for trying it. And to be totally honest, even if we do drop pacifism and become the second coming of Son "Loves to Fight More Than Anything Else Other Than Food" Goku, I still think that as a part of Kakara, this was a pretty big part.
On the other hand, doubling down is a risk that I'm not sure we as players can justify, since we still haven't solved the underlying problem: that what we as a voter base and what Kakara believe are just two different things. Sure, we might say we think that it'd be nice to have a pacifist character, (and not all of us are) but when the chips come down and we're in a time sensitive situation where our friends and family are on the line (either in mortal peril and/or being hurt/tortured) and violence is the only quick, efficient option available to us? I have to wonder how many will vote for the diplomatic option, and how many will vote to do the violence and save our family/friends. And until we get this settled out, we're in danger of having this BS happen again and again, so long as the voter base is split.
Of course, neither of these options is wrong, per se, but there is one factor I've left out until now: this has been... what, less than an hour? Maybe two at the most?... since we had our entire worldview shaken to its very core. If we immediately jump into a hard decision either for or against, what does it say about Kakara? To me, it seems a little too much like Berra and his Atoner trait, wherein he jumps head first at any opportunity to "fix his mistakes," rather than use some of that patience he's well known for to sit down and think for a while about whether it is the right thing to do. And it's, in my opinion, the same with jumping to the extreme in this vote. Doing so here, in either direction, would be, in story, a knee jerked reaction on Kakara's part.
And I'm not sure I really want Kakara to be the kind of person who would base their entire world view on a decision made while we're still on the emotional roller coaster. What we need is time to sit down, think this over, and come to an informed decision about where to go from here. It make sense narratively, it makes sense logically, and it makes sense psychologically.
Thus I have to, in all good conscience, vote for the options that has us admit we haven't thought about it, and will probably lead us to actually sitting down and thinking about it.
The whole altered Atoner trait thing was a joke, pointing out that the reaction in-thread to the failed violence update was so heavy that it might as well have been guided by said trait. If it was in bad taste, I apologize.
- Location
- United States
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
- Location
- Yes.
-glares in Kagome-
*grumbling* stinking GM stinker stealing my schtick *grumbling*
I'm 99% certain he means that Sensei's PL doesn't break the 100,000 mark even at max power. Seers are generally rather weak.
This also isn't exactly standard Dragon Ball. This is Poptarts take.
And you'll notice that two/three of the main villains listed, and at least two of the minor villains got redeemed.
Rule of nature: it is impossible to create a parody so extreme someone will not believe it. This is on account of there actually people who are that extreme. Sorry for snapping at you, have dealt with far too many assholes who did stuff like that genuinely in my old job.
And I think that the difference in opinion between me, who is voting for the pacifist option, and you, who is voting for the "I don't know" option, comes down to two key points(and likely many non-key points):
1) I have not interpreted the vote as Kakara's decision as instantaneous/snap-decision, but a conclusion she comes to later on in the year. This is on account how these votes normally work, and currently not possessing strong evidence to think otherwise. Before I came to this realization, I was actually voting to wait myself.
2) That Kakara hasn't thought all this before. Kakara, in the end, has had no new revelations to make her question whether her beliefs are right or not. The difficulties she would face holding such a belief? She was aware of them before. What is new is her failure to uphold such a belief, and her failure to properly break it. As such, the vote is less about whether her morals are right, and more about whether upholding them is worth the cost to herself.
The first means that voting indecisive results in Kakara spending months grappling with the issue to no result. The second means that voting indecisive is Kakara backing down from what she knows is right out of fear and pressure.
As for the voters...honestly, I'm not sure how/why there's such an issue. Kakara's character has been clearly layed out multiple times, sticking to it should not be hard, especially since we're not reacting instantly to what is happening.
And if they truly cannot stand and/or understand such a character... what are they doing here/voting in the first place? Kakara being anti-violence was there from day one, afterall.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Except that Kakara did think about it. We got pacifist via The Examined Life.
- Location
- Canada
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
Well I'm kind for anti killing everything and everyone. And I'm a fan of the dragon ball franchise so why would I not join a quest and try to change the character by voting and debating for said changes Gore?
ChildishChimera
A umbran summon
- Location
- New York
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Because I want Kakara to stop and think about this, and then still achieve a highly pacifistic stance.
EDIT:
-[X] Ask him why.
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
Because I want Kakara to stop and think about this, and then still achieve a highly pacifistic stance.
EDIT:
And now several of us are voting to sit down and think about it some more. Because that's a pretty reasonable thing to do. Examining and re-examining your beliefs is a regular part of maturity and adulthood, and if Kakara wants to be super-mature for her age, it's only fitting she actively work on said maturity by giving regular thought and reflection to such a huge, central belief.
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
This is an excellent point. In fact, it is what you should do.
That said, you need to recognize that there are 400 pages of characterization and discussion prior to your joining (estimated) that build the character in a particular way, and you can't force the thread as a whole to change this. You can vote, you can reason, you can give your opinions, but the tyranny of the majority (or the significant minority when a big vote splits) is the law of the thread.
As such, I doubt you'll manage to get Kakara to evolve her pacifism into the typical DBZ 'Punch first, punch second, ki blast, and maybe ask a question of the crater'. We didn't pick Jaffur. We went for hard mode - DragonBallZ, Pacifist style.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
I good try and invite some of the bloodthirsty bleach community into this quest and see how 400 pages goes into the fire pit... Or maybe kindly ask Maugen to advertise this quest... He might ask for a tribute in omakes tho... Hmm...
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Angurvddel
I am Large. I contain Multitudes
[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
I just found this quest (and it took a while to catch up), but I think it might be good for Kakara to seriously take a look at her philosophy. I'll note that it's not actually something she has to navel gaze in a vacuum for, the nuances of pacifism isn't exactly something that hasn't been studied and written about. Maybe actually do some reading about it over the next year?
-[X] Ask him why
[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
I just found this quest (and it took a while to catch up), but I think it might be good for Kakara to seriously take a look at her philosophy. I'll note that it's not actually something she has to navel gaze in a vacuum for, the nuances of pacifism isn't exactly something that hasn't been studied and written about. Maybe actually do some reading about it over the next year?