Why would we? Clean seeds are a valuable commodity and the potential return on investment is shit.

Either:
- Nothing happens.
- Witch absorbs the clear seed and we're down a seed.
- Clear seed starts to absorb grief from the witch. Which is useless to us.
- Clear seed starts to feed the witch, making it stronger.

There is literally no good outcome unless a miracle occurs for which we have absolutely no leads. We might as well try to do a song and dance routine at the witch and hope something cool happens.
 
Why would we? Clean seeds are a valuable commodity and the potential return on investment is shit.

Either:
- Nothing happens.
- Witch absorbs the clear seed and we're down a seed.
- Clear seed starts to absorb grief from the witch. Which is useless to us.
- Clear seed starts to feed the witch, making it stronger.

There is literally no good outcome unless a miracle occurs for which we have absolutely no leads. We might as well try to do a song and dance routine at the witch and hope something cool happens.
Song and dance routine might actually have a better chance of success, against Walpurgisnacht (or Homulilly, for that matter).
 
[x] Godwinson
[] German organization
-[] Hierarchy: Is it a dictatorship, a democracy, what?
-[] History: How long has it been around? Is there much infighting, or mostly stable?
--[] Walpurgisnacht: Given the German name, do they know anything about it?
-[] Methods: Do they do anything different from other groups? What can Nadia tell us about them?
-[] Meeting: Would they be willing to talk with us? Because getting a 200-magical girl boost against Walpurgisnacht would be amazing

[] Older magical girls
-[] How old is the oldest magical girl that Nadia has heard of? That she's met? (Not counting Homura)
-[] Do older magical girls change in any way? Do they actually grow or stay age-locked?

[] Feathers?
-[] Stop asking and redirect if any of these start to go toward witchbomb:
-[] Does any magical girl that Nadia knows (of) have black feathers?
-[] Are there any magic beings that she knows/has heard of beyond magical girls, witches, and Kyubey?
-[] Has Nadia heard of any time or time-travel related magics?
EDIT: @Godwinson incorporated most of these, so going with that instead. Old vote in spoilers in case it gives anyone ideas.
 
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I specifically said to vote for anything you might be interested in
@Mami, we might have a problem.


[x] Who's dating who?
[x] Who broke up with who?
[x] What have the other Pants Girls been up to?
[Χ] Smooth: "What about your three sizes?"
-[Χ] Freeze when everybody gasps around you (except Nadia).
--[Χ] "I-I meant Mami's sizes!"
---[Χ] Flush and hide your face in embarrasment.
----[Χ] Do note down Nadia's answer, though.

[X] Godwinson

Oh, we should also probably tell her about the Ishinomaki conflict, let her know that general area might be a little volatile for a bit, and that we're going there for a cleansing trip later today.
Oh yes, we probably should freely give the information broker this information. She'll probably apreciate it.

Hell, we could offer to tell her all about it. Or hell, take her with us on the trip! :p
 
Why would we? Clean seeds are a valuable commodity and the potential return on investment is shit.

Either:
- Nothing happens.
- Witch absorbs the clear seed and we're down a seed.
- Clear seed starts to absorb grief from the witch. Which is useless to us.
- Clear seed starts to feed the witch, making it stronger.

There is literally no good outcome unless a miracle occurs for which we have absolutely no leads. We might as well try to do a song and dance routine at the witch and hope something cool happens.
If it weakens them, because it doesn't have any Grief, then we have a weapon. If it makes them stronger then we have something to hold over QBs head.
 
If it weakens them, because it doesn't have any Grief, then we have a weapon. If it makes them stronger then we have something to hold over QBs head.

But we don't care if they can act as a weapon. We could probably glass the entire planet if we wanted to. There is absolutely no need for us to get additional firepower. Especially firepower against witches, which we can already rip apart with a stray thought.

And Kyubey would be delighted if we managed to make stronger witches. His purpose is to get Madoka to contract and stronger witches = more dangerous situations = more chances for Madoka to contract.

What we need is social and workarounds to extend our influence past our range limits.
 
Everybody, we seem to have missed something.

First of all, there is no doubt that Nadia knows about witches. It's clear from her demeanour and her reaction when our girls said they knew about soul gems. More importantly, she seems to be aware of the general zero-sum nature of the cycle of despair, which is why she brought up the example that she did - girls wished to avoid the consequences of magic use, so the consequences were passed on to other girls. The system protects itself from abuse.

Which makes us ... strange. What's our drawback, Nadia is (reasonably) wondering? We seem to be cheating the system in a fundamental way.

However. However. Nadia knows about Kyuubey. The first big question that we need answered is, is the cycle of despair an unavoidable consequence of the metaphysics of wishes? Or is it imposed by the Incubators due to their hope/despair double-dipping?

Another interesting thing: we know for a fact that the Wish system is open-ended. Wishes can close over the cyclical consequences of their desired outcomes, because that's exactly what Madoka did in the series. It's like a Hilbert Hotel - a wish can be made to outrun its own drawbacks. This is the second big question: is our wish one that outruns its own drawback? Or is there a hidden drawback, that we don't know yet?

Do we know if our grief is negentropic for Kyuubey? If it isn't, I could see it try to use that as a griefbomb against us at an opportune time.
 
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But we don't care if they can act as a weapon. We could probably glass the entire planet if we wanted to. There is absolutely no need for us to get additional firepower. Especially firepower against witches, which we can already rip apart with a stray thought.
...Can someone else please tell this person what not testing anti-walpurgisnacht things, That have a unknown damage to fallout ratio, counts as? I feel like i might get banned for making that report.
And Kyubey would be delighted if we managed to make stronger witches. His purpose is to get Madoka to contract and stronger witches = more dangerous situations = more chances for Madoka to contract.

Oh god. You are one of those "You can't win that way because i say so" people aren't you? One of those people who are just born Doylists? He wants anti-entropy material. And if you want to tell me more then that you should be ready for me to open a can of Carl Sagan on your ass.
 
Oh god. You are one of those "You can't win that way because i say so" people aren't you? One of those people who are just born Doylists? He wants anti-entropy material. And if you want to tell me more then that you should be ready for me to open a can of Carl Sagan on your ass.
Dude, tone down the confrontational. Just try to imagine everybody else as basically well-meaning. Whether it's true or not, it'll make you look better.

That said, yes I'm fairly sure Madoka is negotiable. The Incubators do not want Madoka as a terminal goal, they want her as an instrumental to the terminal goal of reducing entropy. Kyuubey does not win if Madoka contracts, Kyuubey wins if the universe perpetually avoids heat death. Of course, he'll probably never stop trying to get girls to contract unless we make him stop, and he cannot be trusted to keep to it - he's running a decision theory that's incapable of precommitment. We'll probably need to acquire the power to wipe out the Incubators merely as a defensive weapon against them locking us in a dreamworld, Rebellion-style. That or figure out how to modify them to make them trustworthy. (Now there's an idea for Mado-Wish.)

[edit] I wonder if we can find a magical girl that has "truth-telling" powers and we can pair them up with Oriko to hold the Incubators accountable. We may not need to fix the problem on the Incubator side at all. Something else to ask Nadia.
 
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Why, you don't want Mami's wrist, shoe and ring finger sizes? How are we gonna buy her shoes and jewelry like that?

You heartless man.
Mami and Sabrina practically live with their arms wrapped around each other these days. If anyone is going to know her measurements, it's Sabrina.

And yeah, getting into creeper territory here; let's just not, ok?

Oh god. You are one of those "You can't win that way because i say so" people aren't you? One of those people who are just born Doylists? He wants anti-entropy material. And if you want to tell me more then that you should be ready for me to open a can of Carl Sagan on your ass.
Okay,
1) Keep a civil tongue, please, if only because we have two mods who are reading this thread, and the QM is an admin.
2) We know QB would be perfectly fine destroying all of Earth to get Madoka to Contract: it says as much itself.
 
...Can someone else please tell this person what not testing anti-walpurgisnacht things, That have a unknown damage to fallout ratio, counts as? I feel like i might get banned for making that report.

But, we don't need to know the fallout of chucking clean seeds at Walpurgis. We aren't planning to toss clean seeds at Walpurgis to defeat her. We're planning to dissolve her into component grief. And in case that doesn't work we'll blast her with lasers from our impermeable grief fortress.

The real question is, do you have a good reason to believe that tossing clean seeds at witches will achieve something useful? Preferably something more concrete than "I got a hunch" or "You never know!". Because both of those apply to many other possible experiments we could be doing.


Oh god. You are one of those "You can't win that way because i say so" people aren't you? One of those people who are just born Doylists? He wants anti-entropy material. And if you want to tell me more then that you should be ready for me to open a can of Carl Sagan on your ass.

Yes, Kyubey wants anti entropy stuff. But Kyubey has already demonstrated that Madoka is such a potent anti entropy source that he's willing to sacrifice the entire earth to get her to contract. So anything we offer him in exchange for Madoka must be truly astronomical. Something that we currently cannot do, so Kyubey will continue to pursue Madoka. That's not Doylism, it's logical reasoning from known premises.

Do you have a valid counterargument as to why stronger witches would somehow hinder Kyubey's goals?
 
Dude, tone down the confrontational. Just try to imagine everybody else as basically well-meaning. Whether it's true or not, it'll make you look better.
Right. Sorry. I was trying to say that i was willing to use "anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" to go into a "yuh huh" "nuh uh" bullshit thing but didn't want to. I mean you can see how that would happen with some people right? Or am i just insane?
But, we don't need to know the fallout of chucking clean seeds at Walpurgis. We aren't planning to toss clean seeds at Walpurgis to defeat her. We're planning to dissolve her into component grief. And in case that doesn't work we'll blast her with lasers from our impermeable grief fortress.
Of course we aren't planing to do that. We don't know what would happen. That's sort of my whole point. And why are you so against having options besides "LOL. NOPE. XD." and "Press the button. May god have mercy on our souls."?
The real question is, do you have a good reason to believe that tossing clean seeds at witches will achieve something useful? Preferably something more concrete than "I got a hunch" or "You never know!". Because both of those apply to many other possible experiments we could be doing.
It's almost the most simple experiment we could do with these souls. We would literally be throwing them at eachother and seeing what happens.
Yes, Kyubey wants anti entropy stuff. But Kyubey has already demonstrated that Madoka is such a potent anti entropy source that he's willing to sacrifice the entire earth to get her to contract. So anything we offer him in exchange for Madoka must be truly astronomical. Something that we currently cannot do, so Kyubey will continue to pursue Madoka. That's not Doylism, it's logical reasoning from known premises.
Well don't use shorthand around here. It could cut people off from good ideas. You know what people are like. You should be better then this.
Do you have a valid counterargument as to why stronger witches would somehow hinder Kyubey's goals?
Because it could get the amount of value the world has to be higher then that gained by Kriemhild Gretchen? Oh, hang on, that isn't something that would fit into the format you asked for. So either that answer couldn't help anything or you need to start asking better questions. I bet that now you really don't want us testing thing.
 
Right. Sorry. I was trying to say that i was willing to use "anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" to go into a "yuh huh" "nuh uh" bullshit thing but didn't want to. I mean you can see how that would happen with some people right? Or am i just insane?

Of course we aren't planing to do that. We don't know what would happen. That's sort of my whole point. And why are you so against having options besides "LOL. NOPE. XD." and "Press the button. May god have mercy on our souls."?

It's almost the most simple experiment we could do with these souls. We would literally be throwing them at eachother and seeing what happens.

Well don't use shorthand around here. It could cut people off from good ideas. You know what people are like. You should be better then this.

Because it could get the amount of value the world has to be higher then that gained by Kriemhild Gretchen? Oh, hang on, that isn't something that would fit into the format you asked for. So either that answer couldn't help anything or you need to start asking better questions. I bet that now you really don't want us testing thing.

Please read the thread banner and exit the thread temporarily while you cool off. This is toxic, discourteous behavior and your ability to post like this with a thread banner telling you not to is disturbing.

Go to bed, eat lunch, do whatever it is you need to do.
 
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