Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
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...Honestly I hadn't even considered that it might include their books on Dhar when I wrote that, lol. It's more just that magical theory in general is militarily relevant and thus not normally available for sale.Do you mean their books on Dhar, including select in-Sarvoi's-view legitimate use cases? You can just say you mean their books on Dhar, no additional suspicion will be acquired.
As for whether or not we make Omegahugger very happy with this deal, I'd give it maybe 50/50 - it's not as though Mathilde is able to barter for them in specific without raising some awkward questions about herself. Yeah, she has the waystone project exemption, but the waystone project already has access to those books so I can't see a way for mathilde to get books about dhar if the queen decides to haggle over them in particular.
Yet it's still possible because from the queen's perspective mathilde can't use those books outside of the waystone project, and if weber doesn't point that out and use it to drive the price down by excluding dhar books, that's to Laurelorn's advantage, right? She may decide to just let Mathilde make the "mistake".
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Chess is a wargame, so it doesn't have to involve chance. Scouts honor can work too, though Qretch would absolutely cheat and assume everyone else does too. He probably has a whole elaborate theory of how to do it properly. After all, claiming bad rolls and winning anyway is the greatest display of dominance.
I imagine reenacting historical battles would be poplar, which means it would be a lot of human vs human (because most don't want to pay as vampires or orks or Godforbid chaos).
Reflecting on the differences and similarities, like the eternal infighting, sounds interesting.
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"Qrech starts playing wargames with people via post" Qrech accidentally armchair general-ling an actual army Ender style makes my innards quiver.
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Hey, if the Library of Mournings gives us their books on Dhar, then maybe we get to write yet another paper in which we launder our insights with the excuse that we just so happened to run into these books and studied them for means of undoing them, honest.
We take the plausible deniability where we can get it.
We take the plausible deniability where we can get it.
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[X] Initiate
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[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Witch Hunter
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[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.
[X] Entrance Examination
[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Witch Hunter
[X] The Festival Lord
[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.
I don't think the Eonir would make any distinction with Dhar. Unless ai am mistaken, they're elves, for them using Dhar should be no more different than using other any of the other Winds of Magic as their soul cannot (or rather should not) get tainted with it.
Something I think is interesting though is, if this is the cases they might have books about Dhar + Wind (like Dhar + Ulgu, the one we Shaw Eshin Friend using).
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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Say, here's a question some of the older people in the thread might know the answer to. I was looking back to the time Mathilde first went on her book-buying spree and made friends with the Barak Varr bookseller, and ran into this quote:
I imagine that across the years some library categories got folded together or simplified for the sake of library cleanliness, so I'm curious: Does that still hold up? Is our current Beastmen book topic mostly about Gors and Ungors, which form the basis of Beastmen culture in the Old World?
Or does the current Beastmen topic we have include all Beastmen that the writers of those books know about (e.g. all Bovine-based Beastmen for most of the Old World's sources, tiger-men for Ind sources, etc)?
I'm wondering out of curiosity, because the Eonir probably have a whole bunch on most of the Old World varieties and I'm wondering whether that's multiple topics or not.
But I do think that if we ever get questioned on how we know so much about it, Eonir Dhar books would add a fourth source of plausibility to defend ourselves. Now we have actual academia from a friendly polity to back up this knowledge. Those books are probably gonna have a fat note in the library index saying 'you need permission from Gunnars or Kragg or Mathilde to read these', and-
Actually, you know what I just realized? Speaking of forbidden, it's quite likely the Eonir have books on the Four. Now those would be super forbidden. The Eonir have thus far been quite open about letting people copy books on the Cadai and the Cytherai, but I wouldn't be surprised if books on the Four were normally restricted. If they do have them, would they still give them to us? That'd be kinda scary in a way.
I imagine that across the years some library categories got folded together or simplified for the sake of library cleanliness, so I'm curious: Does that still hold up? Is our current Beastmen book topic mostly about Gors and Ungors, which form the basis of Beastmen culture in the Old World?
Or does the current Beastmen topic we have include all Beastmen that the writers of those books know about (e.g. all Bovine-based Beastmen for most of the Old World's sources, tiger-men for Ind sources, etc)?
I'm wondering out of curiosity, because the Eonir probably have a whole bunch on most of the Old World varieties and I'm wondering whether that's multiple topics or not.
I don't think we can quite launder our general insights of Dhar - knowing how to counter it like Mathilde does means you know how to use it better, our relevant trait tells us as much. That's not something you want out in the world for Magisters to learn.
But I do think that if we ever get questioned on how we know so much about it, Eonir Dhar books would add a fourth source of plausibility to defend ourselves. Now we have actual academia from a friendly polity to back up this knowledge. Those books are probably gonna have a fat note in the library index saying 'you need permission from Gunnars or Kragg or Mathilde to read these', and-
Actually, you know what I just realized? Speaking of forbidden, it's quite likely the Eonir have books on the Four. Now those would be super forbidden. The Eonir have thus far been quite open about letting people copy books on the Cadai and the Cytherai, but I wouldn't be surprised if books on the Four were normally restricted. If they do have them, would they still give them to us? That'd be kinda scary in a way.
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There are absolutely distinctions between Dhar and the other Winds from an Elven perspective. Asur don't use it at all, and the Asrai use it only with a Qhaysh user there to counter the unfortunate side effects. From what we've seen, the Eonir don't have a full-on prohibition, but they're very careful and don't use it much...it's categorically different in its effects on users and they are aware of that.
Remember that Mathilde found Sarvoi's Dhar use kinda amateurish...she's already beyond the Eonir in Dhar, it seems like. Perks of reading the Liber Mortis.
Now, using Eonir books on Dhar as an excuse for knowing about it, that's possible, but getting actual insight from them is very unlikely.
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They do make a distinction, but not for the same reason. More importantly, Sarvoi at least is aware that for humans dhar is always dangerous, even if it took him a moment to remember during the reverse engineering meetings.
Frankly, that's funny as shit. I think we're more likely than not to learn at least a thing or two from the eonir dhar books, but I do recall Boney saying that if Mathilde had thrown her hat into the Dhar lore smackdown between Sarvoi and the Druchii diplomat that Weber could have schooled them both lmao.
Ultimately, our magical knowledge isn't some number that can only be bigger or smaller than somebody else's. Different knowledge on the subject is still beneficial to get even when Mathilde's body of knowledge is objectively superior to the corpus we're learning from.
I believe Boney has said that we could, in theory, make an attempt to codify the dhar-bane trait as a teachable paper without dhar-use, but that it would be really hard and take a high roll or something.
So I suppose that might be about to get easier.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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Omegahugger can have a little Dhar, as a treat.
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I was going to say "no, that's not true", and then I realised I was getting mixed up with the Second Secret. I don't suppose you have a source, though?
The Beastmen topic that the library currently has is about their society and military. There'd be separate categories under Fauna for the various species that would go into anatomy, physiology, and how they act as individuals.
It's potentially possible, but honestly considering the difficulty and attention it would bring doesn't seem worth it to me, probably also why no one's brought it up in a while.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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That makes sense. I can see situations where you might one of those but not the other.
Do you know where Boney said Mathilde could smackdown the Druchii over dhar? I could see the Secrets giving a large advantage over them in combat and even lore to an extent, but I don't know of a quote from Boney saying that of the Druchii. Something similar was said about Sarvoi. Which, considering that Sarvoi is one of Laurelorn's foremost experts in magical theory, implies that Laurelorn only has a perfunctory understanding of Dhar. The First and Second secrets were discovered by Nagash by torturing random Druchii sorceresses. I'd be surprised if they didn't know of it.
Incidentally I found the quote describing how the Eonir see using Dhar.
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I mean it could be more focused on Chaos Dwarves where he uses his knowledge of them to simulate a wargame of a theoretical attack on K8P or the Empire or somewhere else.
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Will it be?
I think +5s to fighting and planning to fight the beastmen guarding some of the nexus sites in the near future would be pretty impactful on its own (via strategy and tactics - Beastmen perks), nevermind bonuses to trying to codify anti-dhar knowledge, bonuses to the orbflex, and the narrative benefits of a broader foundation of Telsian than what the colleges have access to.
Hell, I think we might finally learn about Qhaysh! There's definitely gonna be books about that in the library, only question is whether or not they're among the books this trade lifts the restriction on. That'd be kind of priceless on its own.
It's just, this is the wood elf super library with texts going back to the beginning of the known world. It's easier to describe what it wouldn't help than to describe what it does.
You found the quote I was thinking of when I said she could school them.
Sarvoi schooled the diplomat, and when somebody asked if Mathilde learned anything from watching Boney said unprompted that Mathilde could teach Sarvoi how to do it better - the implication was pretty clear that in a dhar for dhar lore contest, Mathilde might have Sarvoi beat.
I still absolutely think we can learn stuff from the eonir corpus about dhar. We just, you know, aren't going to get anything that rivals the liber mortis. Legendary tome and all that.
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When did he do that? Are you talking about the Foundation roll? That was a draw, with neither party getting anything out of it. Sarvoi also wasn't casting magic, he was trying to trick the Sorceress into revealing magical secrets the he could use. That he went to the Sorceress for hints on the Foundation implies that he thinks that random Druchii sorceresses have a better understanding of Dhar than he does. Which honestly isn't that surprising.
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I edited my post to include the exact exchange I was referring to for clarity. The in-quest event was the social gathering where Mathilde met the druchii diplomats, specifically the part where Sarvoi embarrassed the druchii sorceress who was bragging about her magical knowledge.
But you know, again, "different knowledge is still good knowledge even if one body is better than another". Just because Sarvoi was able to point out that the sorceress had been deliberately trained wrong doesn't mean he's discarded the possibility that she knows something he doesn't.
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Yes, I had quoted that. I know that Mathilde could give Sarvoi lessons. I'm asking about the notion that she can give the Druchii lessons. When did Sarvoi 'school' the Druchii diplomat?
I think you're confusing Sarvoi with Harathi, who's one of the Grey Lords and had the confrontation with the Sorceress.