Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
DragonParadox said:
Albion has very little land that is good for agriculture, how much the humans might or might not like you in isolation is kind of moot if you end up fighting over land. Of all that I would probably choose Tilea, since the people there are not united politically if one prince wants to kill you as mutants the next one over might hire you. There is also broadly less prejudice against magic than you would find in the Empire or Bretonia, since the further south you go the less hell-like the setting becomes. If they are willing to hire mercenary wizards they would probably be willing to hire gnomes,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People who discover they have magic in Tilea and Estalia don't stay in Tilea and Estalia, they leave for the Empire to learn magic or die. The reason for that is that there are no magical schools or practices in Tilea and Estalia, it's a free for all where you have to figure it out yourself, you have to find a master who's proficient in magic somehow, or you somehow get something else that teaches you how to use magic, like a book or something (unbelievably rare and just as likely to kill you as teach you). Magic is not the sort of things that's all that easy to teach to yourself, so most either turn out as Dhar users, petty magickers, or they blow themselves up. That's why it's generally a better idea to go to the Empire. Bretonnia doesn't accept foreigners and certainly not male casters, and Kislev is the same.

Now, if you're already a trained caster, you'll be highly valued in Tilea. The question is, where the hell did you learn it? If you learned from the Empire, then you're a Magister and you have obligations to the Empire that prevent you from being a random hireling in most cases, unless you go rogue which is a very bad idea if you don't want to be hunted down. The other options are as stated before, get super lucky. All of this combined makes it so that Hireling Wizards are extraordinarily rare, which also means that they're highly valued, but it also means they're a target for assassination because that's how Tilea works.

There is only one actual character on the Tabletop who's a caster from Tilea, and that's the Princess of Pavona Lucrezzia Belladonna. There are dozens of other characters, but none of them are casters.

EDIT: Gelt is implied to be from the Southern Realms, and he was a prodigy who could turn things to gold temporarily, but he only actively started studying magic and at the Empire.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
People who discover they have magic in Tilea and Estalia don't stay in Tilea and Estalia, they leave for the Empire to learn magic or die. The reason for that is that there are no magical schools or practices in Tilea and Estalia, it's a free for all where you have to figure it out yourself, you have to find a master who's proficient in magic somehow, or you somehow get something else that teaches you how to use magic, like a book or something (unbelievably rare and just as likely to kill you as teach you). Magic is not the sort of things that's all that easy to teach to yourself, so most either turn out as Dhar users, petty magickers, or they blow themselves up. That's why it's generally a better idea to go to the Empire. Bretonnia doesn't accept foreigners and certainly not male casters, and Kislev is the same.

Now, if you're already a trained caster, you'll be highly valued in Tilea. The question is, where the hell did you learn it? If you learned from the Empire, then you're a Magister and you have obligations to the Empire that prevent you from being a random hireling in most cases, unless you go rogue which is a very bad idea if you don't want to be hunted down. The other options are as stated before, get super lucky. All of this combined makes it so that Hireling Wizards are extraordinarily rare, which also means that they're highly valued, but it also means they're a target for assassination because that's how Tilea works.

There is only one actual character on the Tabletop who's a caster from Tilea, and that's the Princess of Pavona Lucrezzia Belladonna. There are dozens of other characters, but none of them are casters.

EDIT: Gelt is implied to be from the Southern Realms, and he was a prodigy who could turn things to gold temporarily, but he only actively started studying magic and at the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean if you are blatantly a non-human wizard you can just say 'look we have our own traditions' and show off that you have multiple casters.
 
Honestly, if you're getting hired as a mercenary in Tilea, then it's not like you're escaping the Warhammer hellscape. You just move from one hellscape to another. This time you're getting involved in the twisting politics and constant wars of Tilea. And honestly considering the variety of mercenaries you'll be fighting, chances are it's not much different from fighting the Forces of Destruction elsewhere. Except you can't even reassure yourself that you're benefitting the world, since the people you're fighting are only doing what they're doing for money, not for their desire to destroy the world.

Tilea is honestly not all that much better than the Empire.
 
Codex said:
Honestly, if you're getting hired as a mercenary in Tilea, then it's not like you're escaping the Warhammer hellscape. You just move from one hellscape to another. This time you're getting involved in the twisting politics and constant wars of Tilea. And honestly considering the variety of mercenaries you'll be fighting, chances are it's not much different from fighting the Forces of Destruction elsewhere. Except you can't even reassure yourself that you're benefitting the world, since the people you're fighting are only doing what they're doing for money, not for their desire to destroy the world.

Tilea is honestly not all that much better than the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

But it does probably pay better so it depends on what you value most between your conscience and your wallet. Depends on how bad off your people are at quest start.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
Honestly, if you're getting hired as a mercenary in Tilea, then it's not like you're escaping the Warhammer hellscape. You just move from one hellscape to another. This time you're getting involved in the twisting politics and constant wars of Tilea. And honestly considering the variety of mercenaries you'll be fighting, chances are it's not much different from fighting the Forces of Destruction elsewhere. Except you can't even reassure yourself that you're benefitting the world, since the people you're fighting are only doing what they're doing for money, not for their desire to destroy the world.

Tilea is honestly not all that much better than the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If you use Machiavelli's description of Condottieri as a model, mercenary conflicts in Tilea might be more of a spectator sport than a form of warfare. Everyone on a given battlefield is just there to get paid and not super enthusiastic about dying for the cause, so there'd be a widespread unspoken understanding to get onto the field for long enough to put on a good show for the employers and then the smaller side withdraws. A group capable of impressive but harmless illusions might fit in extremely well.
 
Boney said:
If you use Machiavelli's description of Condottieri as a model, mercenary conflicts in Tilea might be more of a spectator sport than a form of warfare. Everyone on a given battlefield is just there to get paid and not super enthusiastic about dying for the cause, so there'd be a widespread unspoken understanding to get onto the field for long enough to put on a good show for the employers and then the smaller side withdraws. A group capable of impressive but harmless illusions might fit in extremely well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's quite fascinating, but I imagine it might be difficult to get people like Ruglud's Armored Orcs, Golgfag's Maneaters, Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz, Mengil Manhide's Manflayers and Beorg Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo to understand that they shouldn't be taking this too seriously. Maybe they just don't get hired if the intent is not to kill.
 
Codex said:
That's quite fascinating, but I imagine it might be difficult to get people like Ruglud's Armored Orcs, Golgfag's Maneaters, Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz, Mengil Manhide's Manflayers and Beorg Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo to understand that they shouldn't be taking this too seriously. Maybe they just don't get hired if the intent is not to kill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe that's why there's still demand for such exotic mercenaries despite unreliability and difficulty communicating, because they're more likely to actually get stuck in.
 
Well, as much as I tend to focus on all the exotic and out there companies and Regiments, I do think it should be noted that a lot of these guys are literally "just some guys with one gimmick". Vespero's Vendetas are a bunch of fancy duelists that try to look cool and edgy. Bronzino's Galloper Guns are just a guy and his crew carrying a small mobile cannon that can be dragged around the battlefield by a horse. Marksmen of Miragliano are a bunch of guys with good shooting skills. Birdmen of Catrazza are kinda fancy because they can fly and shoot, but it's such a situational gimmick that wouldn't be effective if they weren't fighting in a place that has vantage points all over like Tilea with its mountains. Braganza's Besiegers got their claim to fame by being very patient and well defended crossbowmen.

Voland's Venerators became famous because heavy cavalry is extraordinarily rare in Tilea so they were glad to have some in store. Ricco's Republican Guard are just some guys with pikes who scream about liberty. The Alcatani Fellowship are just some guys who are willing to be hired even by those who can't afford it to spread their good name. Leopold's Leopard Company is just a well funded and well trained elite unit of soldiers from a guy who was bribed off by the Prince of Luccini so he would stop trying to take the throne from him (both contested the throne of Luccini).

There's a lot of fancy units from Tilea, but there are also a lot of normal guys. I believe the stated reasons for this was that the initial Dogs of War run was an interest check where they went with a lot of relatively mundane concepts and if people were interested enough they would release more bizarre, outlandish and colorful concepts with newer White Dwarf articles.
 
Codex said:
That's quite fascinating, but I imagine it might be difficult to get people like Ruglud's Armored Orcs, Golgfag's Maneaters, Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz, Mengil Manhide's Manflayers and Beorg Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo to understand that they shouldn't be taking this too seriously. Maybe they just don't get hired if the intent is not to kill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I guess they're who you call in when you don't want to fuck around and want to kill your enemies.
 
Tilean mercenaries in general do actually fight. I don't know why, but they do, because if they didn't, that wouldn't be much at all to base a wargame around.
 
I think they of course do fight. But I imagine they avoid doing shit like dead checking bodies on the field to make sure someone is down. And giving people chances to withdraw if the very clearly look like they want to retreat.

They still of course shank the shit out of each other. But they have a measure of respect about it and don't go total war on each other's asses.
 
Last edited:
Generally holding back on each other would also make it easier when today's enemy becomes tomorrow's ally. Giving each other some respect helps in not getting stabbed in the back or left behind to die when you end up fighting on the same side.
 
Boney said:
They do say that they are twins and that they have a fierce rivalry, but instead of warnings to balance both, they say that it can lead to disaster to try to court both sisters at the same time. They believe that one should concentrate either on the pleasures of the flesh or the mysteries of the immaterial, and not both at once.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ooh. Exact opposite. Nifty.

That might also mean that Tindomiel are somewhat ascetic, which I didn't expect.
Boney said:
The official line on sentient sacrifice is that We Don't Do This, then in small print the qualifiers "any more, unless we have to". It's considered sensible that it would be better to sacrifice a few volunteers to a God that can avert a disaster than to allow dozens or hundreds of the unwilling to die in that disaster.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I imagine that being something along the line of more general books talking about sentient sacrifice using negative adjectives and using past tenses exclusively while info books on Hekarti mention some of the results of said past sacrifices that seem maybe even like they kind of justified the "barbarisms of the past". And also has detailed descriptions just in case.
Boney said:
It's seen sort of like the magical equivalent of steroid abuse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As in low status and not acceptable during contests, artistry or among polite society? But sensible to use if necessary during times of war?

At least we can expect that its use is not widespread among Tindomiel, except if related to what would be a hidden scandal.
Codex said:
Honestly, if you're getting hired as a mercenary in Tilea, then it's not like you're escaping the Warhammer hellscape. You just move from one hellscape to another. This time you're getting involved in the twisting politics and constant wars of Tilea. And honestly considering the variety of mercenaries you'll be fighting, chances are it's not much different from fighting the Forces of Destruction elsewhere. Except you can't even reassure yourself that you're benefitting the world, since the people you're fighting are only doing what they're doing for money, not for their desire to destroy the world.

Tilea is honestly not all that much better than the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mercenaries facing off are less likely to fight to the point of annihilating the opposing force. Losing a battle means a loss of pay and reputation. And waiting to attack until there is a clear advantage is just smart policy. Everywhere else where gribblies are the main opponent losing a battle means that you condemn yourself and anyone you were protecting to horrible death or worse. And repeatedly marching around each other without attacking on the look of an opportunity (or even a victory through pure posturing) is very rarely an option.

In general, irl casualties of battle used to be much smaller percentages than one might expect iirc.
 
Rafin said:
Ooh. Exact opposite. Nifty.

That might also mean that Tindomiel are somewhat ascetic, which I didn't expect.

I imagine that being something along the line of more general books talking about sentient sacrifice using negative adjectives and using past tenses exclusively while info books on Hekarti mention some of the results of said past sacrifices that seem maybe even like they kind of justified the "barbarisms of the past". And also has detailed descriptions just in case.

As in low status and not acceptable during contests, artistry or among polite society? But sensible to use if necessary during times of war?

At least we can expect that its use is not widespread among Tindomiel, except if related to what would be a hidden scandal.

Mercenaries facing off are less likely to fight to the point of annihilating the opposing force. Losing a battle means a loss of pay and reputation. And waiting to attack until there is a clear advantage is just smart policy. Everywhere else where gribblies are the main opponent losing a battle means that you condemn yourself and anyone you were protecting to horrible death or worse. And repeatedly marching around each other without attacking on the look of an opportunity (or even a victory through pure posturing) is very rarely an option.

In general, irl casualties of battle used to be much smaller percentages than one might expect iirc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


They kinda had to be- when there is countless polities and they are all warring with each other periodically, the casulties need to be kept low if you still want people. As in, at all.
 
Rafin said:
As in low status and not acceptable during contests, artistry or among polite society? But sensible to use if necessary during times of war?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It gets results in the short term, but in the long term there's all sorts of negative results to the user's health, appearance, mental stability, and possibly sexual performance.

Rafin said:
In general, irl casualties of battle used to be much smaller percentages than one might expect iirc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A very rough historical average would be one in twenty casualties if you win, one in five if you lose, and most of the losers' casualties would be from fleeing soldiers being run down, rather than in the melee. Battles that resulted in the complete annihilation of the loser were extremely rare, despite a whole bunch of generals studying the few times where it was managed and doing their best to replicate them. Things would be different in Warhammer in general, of course, but clashes of mostly conventional forces in Tilea would be a lot closer to our history.
 
Is the term casualty here referring to death, or to "can't keep fighting anymore"? Humans are incredibly fragile. A good hit to the head can cause permanent damage that prevents someone from ever fighting again, or at least not properly. Long time athletes who play in organised sports with set parameters and the best medicine of this age still suffer from career ending injuries or long term effects from an organised, refereed sport. Battle has so many additional variables added to this, with the horrible medicine of the time, and also counting the mental trauma from battle, and I imagine that the casualty rate for people who can't fight anymore after battle to be significantly higher.

In Warhammer, this is even worse. Magical phenomenon, monstrous creatures, unreal weather conditions, and a wide variety of horrific stuff from both the environment and the enemy would make casualty rates notably higher. Not just in death, but in "there is no way I'm going to a battlefield ever again".
 
Codex said:
Alarielle was literally just a footnote in 6th Edition High Elves, she got a White Dwarf statblock then they decided to actually give her some attention in later Editions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, she got an entry in 5th, and then nothing until 8th.

Suppose she's at least doing better than Ariel- entry in 4th and never again.
 
Boney said:
It gets results in the short term, but in the long term there's all sorts of negative results to the user's health, appearance, mental stability, and possibly sexual performance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Don't Druuchi prove the last one wrong?

Like, yes, their health, appearance and mental stability leave much to be desired, but by all accounts, their sexual performance is... boosted, if nothing else.
 
storryeater said:
Don't Druuchi prove the last one wrong?

Like, yes, their health, appearance and mental stability leave much to be desired, but by all accounts, their sexual performance is... boosted, if nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The only ones who actually cast are the Sorceresses of Ghrond. 6th Edition says they are not allowed to have children. The vast, vast, vast majority of the Druchii don't actually use Dhar. A possible exception is the maybe canonical Doomfire Warlocks, and I say maybe because their lore is deeply connected to the Slaanesh loving Elf souls tidbit that Boney does not like and doesn't use.

Now, technically them not being allowed to have children doesn't mean they're not sexually active. Atharti also encourages all manner of pleasure and satisfaction, and carnal satisfaction is one of those. However, just because you're sexually active doesn't mean you're good at it. Certainly, no one who shares a bed with a Sorceress is likely to mention how bad they are in bed.
 
Codex said:
The only ones who actually cast are the Sorceresses of Ghrond. 6th Edition says they are not allowed to have children. The vast, vast, vast majority of the Druchii don't actually use Dhar. A possible exception is the maybe canonical Doomfire Warlocks, and I say maybe because their lore is deeply connected to the Slaanesh loving Elf souls tidbit that Boney does not like and doesn't use.

Now, technically them not being allowed to have children doesn't mean they're not sexually active. Atharti also encourages all manner of pleasure and satisfaction, and carnal satisfaction is one of those. However, just because you're sexually active doesn't mean you're good at it. Certainly, no one who shares a bed with a Sorceress is likely to mention how bad they are in bed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wouldn't be surprised if making sex deliberately unsatisfying is a common power play. That seems to fit their sadistic, power obsessed society. Probably applies to other partner activities. Training to dance in such a way that it's miserable for your partner (but still looks like you're good at it) seems totally in character. Hell, I imagine that a Druchii ball would involve a lot of subtley making your rivals like shitty dancers (along with trying to poison them, but I guess getting poisoned while dancing is the mark of a bad dancer).
 
So, when Mathilde first arrived in Laurelorn, she expressed confusion over something:
Boney said:
So, the High Council is the legislative body, and it has twenty-four members: twenty-one Major Houses, plus the three Wardens - the Vicarii, some of whom are also Princes for reasons you're not yet sure of
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mathilde might have figured it out by now, but I think I found out why some of the Vicarii are Princes and others are not. First, who is called a Prince, and who isn't?
Boney said:
"Vicarius Galenstra of House Fanpatar, Prince of the Rain. Welcome to my realm." He speaks Eltharin in a thick accent - or perhaps more accurately, he speaks a different dialect of it than the one you were taught. "It is my duty to escort you as far as the Rainbow Falls."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
"That is where Vicarius Lindialoc fell. He was the Warden of Frost, and the last Prince of Frost. As his uncle and son fell in that same battle, House Elwyn went extinct. If it weren't for that, you wouldn't be here at all."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
"Me, the Queen, and this year the Warden of the Sun, Lady Delynna."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
For centuries the vote had been fifteen to ten against, or sixteen to nine when the Stormwitch was Triumvir.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
The current Warden is Kaia, known as the 'Stormwitch', who advocates peaceful relations with the Empire... and also with the Druchii and the Norscans. Huh.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kaia is known as "The Stormwitch", and Delynna is known as "Lady Delynna". Galenstra and Lindalioc on the other hand, are Princes. As it turns out, the reason for that is this:

"The outer reaches of the Laurelorn consist of three wards (Frost, Rain, and Storm). These wards were princedoms of Tor Lithanel long ago, before the War of the Beard." Page 79 4th ED Archives of the Empire

The Wards of Frost, Rain and Storm are, or at least were, Princedoms. Therefore the Warden of that realm is a Prince, at least if they're Toriour/from a Major House or something. That means Galenstra and Lindalioc gain the title, but Kaia, being Forestborn, is not a Princess. Lady Delynna is Toriour, but she's the Warden of Sun, and being the Inner Ward it was never a Princedom.
 
Codex said:
the term casualty here referring to death, or to "can't keep fighting anymore"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Historically the latter afaik. But if you fight against cannibals, Chaos cultists and necromancers it quickly becomes one and the same. That's another reason why I think that it's better to be a mercenary in Tilea than a soldier in most other places.
Codex said:
So, when Mathilde first arrived in Laurelorn, she expressed confusion over something:

Mathilde might have figured it out by now, but I think I found out why some of the Vicarii are Princes and others are not. First, who is called a Prince, and who isn't?





Kaia is known as "The Stormwitch", and Delynna is known as "Lady Delynna". Galenstra and Lindalioc on the other hand, are Princes. As it turns out, the reason for that is this:

"The outer reaches of the Laurelorn consist of three wards (Frost, Rain, and Storm). These wards were princedoms of Tor Lithanel long ago, before the War of the Beard." Page 79 4th ED Archives of the Empire

The Wards of Frost, Rain and Storm are, or at least were, Princedoms. Therefore the Warden of that realm is a Prince, at least if they're Toriour/from a Major House or something. That means Galenstra and Lindalioc gain the title, but Kaia, being Forestborn, is not a Princess. Lady Delynna is Toriour, but she's the Warden of Sun, and being the Inner Ward it was never a Princedom.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Another reason could be that the Princes are nobility from the original Princely Houses. The new Wardens, like Kaia for instance, are people who have the job and responsibilities of a Warden, but never were raised into the noble title of Prince. So even a city-born that somehow gets a Warden title doesn't just become a Prince.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top