Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success
[X] Plan Redshirt v3.14159265 w/Riders and Busy Eike & Seviriscope, no speculum
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Redshirt v4.53236
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes and Ranald

Links to my WEB-talk
 
Last edited:
Cutting down to my favorite plan before I go to bed, since it's currently winning:

[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope

For the record, I don't expect this to produce a usable Seviroscope in one action. But I think it will be a useful learning experience, both about Windherding and about what challenges lie on the road of making one. We need to Try It before we Find Out. And I also expect it will be a useful learning experience for Eike, both on a technical level (I have mentioned how much I really like the synergy of the Windfall paper and the Windherding action being with the same three people, because it establishes a narrative through-line of Windsight, which is a very important thing to Mathilde and which we'd obviously love to pass on to Eike) and on a moral level (because it is very likely that Eike will see Mathilde fail, and getting to watch her Master try something difficult that might not work and accept the failure as an opportunity to grow is really important for someone with hero-worship like she's got).

That said, I would be happy with any of the top five plans or so winning. My priorities going into this turn were the Waystone actions, AV, Lustria with Max, Apparitions with Johann, the Windfall paper, and copying the Grand University of Nuln, and all of the leading plans have all of those, so I can kick back, chill, and try to get this omake I'm writing to cooperate.

For the sake of folks staring at a ton of similar plans and wondering what to vote for, I will once again link my flowchart to help you decide.

Merry turnvote to all, and to all a good night.
 
If we do get a functioning Sevirscope I suspect it'll function on similar principles to a design I proposed a long while ago.
NexusEye said:
One of the big difficulties of the the Sevirscope seems to be interpreting the abstract and metaphorical nature of the Winds into a concrete representation without using a biological brain. So... why not use a biological brain? Split it into two components, first part grants Windsight to a subject, second one trawls their brain and projects a real-time feed of what they're seeing using Illusion/MAPP/whatever. We know spells that grant Windsight by mental perception are possible and we know spells that read your mind are possible from when we were researching dictation magic (although they were noted as very dangerous).

Using this on a human would be a non-starter since our target demographic is runesmiths and they would never allow an umgi to watch them while they work (also the fact that brain magic is highly dangerous and it would be unethical to risk their sanity/life/souls if something goes wrong, yadda yadda). But if it can be cast on an animal, those security issues would be solved, I doubt runesmiths meticulously sterilize their workshop of all animal life every time they work out of fear that the fly on the wall will leak runelore secrets (actually, now that I think about it, some of them probably are that paranoid, but most aren't).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Get either an animal or artificial familiar (both Lights and Greys can make them), use a spell to give it Magesight, Eyes of Truth might work here it lets you "see through all illusions, invisibility, concealment, darkness and disguises nearby" and it could be argued that the reason you can't see Winds is becausee they're invisible to most. For the part where the animal/familiar's mental image is turned into visible light Illusion trawling the Sevirscope's brain (or whatever the equivalent might be in an artificial familiar) is probably the best candidate. So long as Eyes of Truth is localized to the eyes and Illusion is localized to the brain or if both Eyes of Truth and Illusion are localized to the brain but are localized to different portions of the brain it should work. If we go the artificial familiar route and that familiar comes out with innate Windsight we could probably drop the Hysh part and if we can't get the Illusion to read the Sevirscope's mind or if the Ulgu and Hysh interfere too much we could replace the Illusion component and replace it with a Hysh MAPP and try to get the mind reading to work by deriving something from Clarity or Inspiration since those are both mind magic based, though if the display mechanism uses a Hysh-based MAPP that will be objectively worse off because a Hysh MAPP could only display white and no other color. Having to scrap either the Ulgu or Hysh parts to make it work would be a failure on the Windherding front but as long as the result is functional we could still present it to Kragg which is the main goal of building a Sevirscope so it would still be a success overall.
 
Chlof said:
Martin Luthor Huss might still be an agitator in the future but I think a lot of that stuff centered around Valten and I'm not sure Boney would want to reuse that particular piece of lore
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
GW actually knew who Jan Huss was, enough to glom his name together with Martin Luther? Cool.
 
picklepikkl said:
Cutting down to my favorite plan before I go to bed, since it's currently winning:

[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope

For the record, I don't expect this to produce a usable Seviroscope in one action. But I think it will be a useful learning experience, both about Windherding and about what challenges lie on the road of making one. We need to Try It before we Find Out. And I also expect it will be a useful learning experience for Eike, both on a technical level (I have mentioned how much I really like the synergy of the Windfall paper and the Windherding action being with the same three people, because it establishes a narrative through-line of Windsight, which is a very important thing to Mathilde and which we'd obviously love to pass on to Eike) and on a moral level (because it is very likely that Eike will see Mathilde fail, and getting to watch her Master try something difficult that might not work and accept the failure as an opportunity to grow is really important for someone with hero-worship like she's got).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure this is accurate - Mathilde 'failing' has already been covered. Kind of. Eike already saw Mathilde not be good at a thing - fighting with a light great sword in her off-hand - and disarmed Mathilde a number of times.

Now developing a new skill is very different from failure, but much like Mathilde failed to learn a number of spells on her first try and then either succeed later or just didn't come back to them, failing at windherding here might well look like the kind of thing that just happens.
You could be a Lord Magister who recuses Karaks and heads international research projects and failure is still a thing and you need to be able to handle than fact.

Basically, if we succeed, then great. and if we fail then I think there is a fair chance Eike will feel better regarding her own future failure more than having a more reasonable evaluation of Mathilde. Which might even be better, though both would be best.

----
The real trick is to be the highest ranking wizard during a reclamation of kakrak and also be in the right place to empower your patron, who also must be the god of Luck.

---
If we go for the enchanting this turn then my highest priority will be for Eike to develop her tradecraft next turn, but a close second that I think is valuable to develop is Eike's piety score/traits, to put it in mechanical terms.
 
Last edited:
Thoughts on making the sevirscope.

I expect that Egrimm and Mathilde would probably start off separately with their own attempts at making the scope. If there's no need to combine magics then why bother?

That said if one of them meets difficulties with a part of the project that's where windherding can come into play. So for example if Egrimm has problems with visualizing the results or Mathilde has problems with getting a clear image of the winds they can combine their projects.


There's also a plan that includes doing Arcane Marks and Sevirscope creating. Spending a month poking her soul with some arcane mark work will if nothing else likely get Mathilde more familiar with her soul in preparation for stapling an apparition onto it.

Vote for it today and become a being of mystery and magic.

[X] Plan Path to Ascension with Sevirscope
-[X] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[X] EGRIMM: Windherding (Sevirscope)
-[X] Waystone: Foundation (Everyone)
-[X] Attempt to gain control of one of your Arcane Marks (Mantle of Mist)
-[X] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[X] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[X] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[X] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (Egrimm as primary author)
-[X] Eike Actions: Lustrian books and rubbings study, Windfall paper, Windherder enchanting, EIC negotiation
-[X] Eike Study: Study tradecraft with the Hochlander

[X] Plan Path to Ascension

Boney said:
"So these eggs, were you laying them or siring them?"

Cython turns to look at you with both eyes, and from what you've been learning of draconic expressions, it looks amused. "Does it matter? I have delved far deeper into Hysh since then. Such distinctions now only exist when I have reason to will it so. I am a being of light and magic, not of flesh and blood."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also Panoramia would probably be pretty impressed if Mathilde can reach the, 'such distinctions now only exist when I have reason to will it' stage. Time to delve deeper into some Ulgu. Then learn from Cython's example and sire some eggs.
 
Looking way back in the story, here's how the Battle Wizards first reacted to Roswita.
Boney said:
"They're like cats!" Roswita shouts, waving her arms out the window of the briefing room in the general direction of the battlefields of Sylvania. "Every day, someone with fire instead of hair or surrounded by birds or a skull instead of a face wanders in and drops off a Vampire skull or the head of some forest mutant or a cartload of bones and I say thank you and they act like I've thrown a party and named my firstborn after them, and they go off to find something even worse to drag back! Look what they did to my table!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They reacted positively to her despite her phobia of magic. And I believe the reason they did so is because she was afraid of magic. Roswita's fear of death was so strong Mathilde could see it in her soul.
Boney said:
But most of all, boiling within her brain like a thunderstorm about to break, is a level of Shyish that wouldn't be out of place in an Amethyst Apprentice.

Roswita Van Hal genuinely believes she is soon to die. And from the well-worn grooves in her soul, she has believed it for quite a while.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Her fear of being near Battle Wizards was probably similarly noticeable to them. And yet despite that terror she swallowed her fear and earnestly thanked them for what they were doing, for risking their lives and souls for her province. She did not mindlessly hate magic users like many bigots do, she merely feared it and given how badly Battle Magic can go wrong I think Battle Wizards can empathize with that fear. I think the reason they liked her was because she had every reason to shun them and didn't, conquering her base inclinations, and they could tell that the praise she gave them was sincere and her respect was genuine. Something I doubt many of those Battle Wizards had ever experienced from a non-Wizard before.
 
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope

I don't like that every plan with a chance to win has the Liminal Realm, I personally think that's something we shouldn't mess with, ever.
Or at least until after the next Everchose came and went.

[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
 
Last edited:
Artemis1992 said:
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope

I don't like that every plan with a chance to win has the Liminal Realm, I personally think that's something we shouldn't mess with, ever.
Or at least until after the next Everchose came and went.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I observe that Plan Redshirt v4.53236 puts the coin on it, if you'd prefer to make that specific action safer in lieu of avoiding it.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Fun thought while I'm rereading stuff for a write up: One of the names for the Hedgewise of old was the "Cunning folk." Which pairs interestingly with how some of their architecture (the brass keep most notably, IIRC) is described as ancient beyond belief but with techniques of skill sufficient to impress both Dwarf and Elf in the old days.

Mathilde guesses the Old Ones are "The cunning beings in silver ships," after Deathfang in his telling describing them as "Cunning beings" repeatedly.

Resultant question: Are the Hedgefolk the descendants of disenfranchised starship pilots? (That or descendants of the Old Ones in general, or at least those of them who stayed behind to fight for the World-That-Is rather than flee.)

On the one hand, yeah that's pretty far out there, but on the other hand it would be cool If the Hedgefolk's magic is so attuned to liminal realms and so opposed to Chaos because their first Liminal Realm was the realm between worlds. That is to say, Space.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Timeline does not match up, humans were made very late in the process of species creation, after lizardmen elves and dwarfs.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Fun thought while I'm rereading stuff for a write up: One of the names for the Hedgewise of old was the "Cunning folk." Which pairs interestingly with how some of their architecture (the brass keep most notably, IIRC) is described as ancient beyond belief but with techniques of skill sufficient to impress both Dwarf and Elf in the old days.

Mathilde guesses the Old Ones are "The cunning beings in silver ships," after Deathfang in his telling describing them as "Cunning beings" repeatedly.

Resultant question: Are the Hedgefolk the descendants of disenfranchised starship pilots? (That or descendants of the Old Ones in general, or at least those of them who stayed behind to fight for the World-That-Is rather than flee.)

On the one hand, yeah that's pretty far out there, but on the other hand it would be cool If the Hedgefolk's magic is so attuned to liminal realms and so opposed to Chaos because their first Liminal Realm was the realm between worlds. That is to say, Space.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I doubt they're Old Ones or literal descendants of such directly, since by all indications humans were part of a series of designed species in Warhammer and as such the Old Ones probably weren't human.

However, there's precedent for the Old Ones sticking around and giving lessons to humans more-or-less directly, specifically in Albion. So the "cunning folk" might be spiritual descendants through the teachings of the "cunning being" Old Ones, maybe?
 
Artemis1992 said:
I don't like that every plan with a chance to win has the Liminal Realm, I personally think that's something we shouldn't mess with, ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Prime 2.0 said:
I observe that Plan Redshirt v4.53236 puts the coin on it, if you'd prefer to make that specific action safer in lieu of avoiding it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I will observe that Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal, Plan Redshirt v4 (Sevirscope) and Plan Bring Running Shoes and Ranald also all put the Coin on the Liminal Realm, though Plan Redshirt v4.53236 definitely has the best chance of catching up with the leading plans.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Fun thought while I'm rereading stuff for a write up: One of the names for the Hedgewise of old was the "Cunning folk." Which pairs interestingly with how some of their architecture (the brass keep most notably, IIRC) is described as ancient beyond belief but with techniques of skill sufficient to impress both Dwarf and Elf in the old days.

Mathilde guesses the Old Ones are "The cunning beings in silver ships," after Deathfang in his telling describing them as "Cunning beings" repeatedly.

Resultant question: Are the Hedgefolk the descendants of disenfranchised starship pilots? (That or descendants of the Old Ones in general, or at least those of them who stayed behind to fight for the World-That-Is rather than flee.)

On the one hand, yeah that's pretty far out there, but on the other hand it would be cool If the Hedgefolk's magic is so attuned to liminal realms and so opposed to Chaos because their first Liminal Realm was the realm between worlds. That is to say, Space.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think they can be literal descendants, the Old Ones were a completely separate species. They could be descendants in the sense they were created by the Old Ones but the same could be said for other humans, Lizardmen, Elves, and Dwarves. That said they could be descendants of the Belthani, culturally or by direct lineage, who are in turn implied to be the descendants of the Albionese, who were directly taught by the Old Ones so they may have some scraps of stuff from the Old Ones.
 
NexusEye said:
They reacted positively to her despite her phobia of magic. And I believe the reason they did so is because she was afraid of magic. Roswita's fear of death was so strong Mathilde could see it in her soul.

Her fear of being near Battle Wizards was probably similarly noticeable to them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eeeh
There are two things to note here
First is that Mathilde wasn't seeing Roswita's phobia of magic in that scene, she was seeing her certainty that war against Sylvania, and Alkaseltzer specifically, was going to kill her

Roswita's emotional state wasn't even exactly fear, she was dissonantly serene when she thought Alakazam had finally done it and that undead wolf was going to tear her throat out, just nihilistic certainty that she was going to die
Boney said:
But most of all, boiling within her brain like a thunderstorm about to break, is a level of Shyish that wouldn't be out of place in an Amethyst Apprentice.

Roswita Van Hal genuinely believes she is soon to die. And from the well-worn grooves in her soul, she has believed it for quite a while.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
"Necrarch," Roswita says suddenly, diverting your attention from the Greatsword tending to his fallen comrades. "Claims to be one of the eldest, but they all do. Fear of the von Carsteins kept all the others quiet, but when Castle Drakenhof fell and none of them appeared, it rang the dinner bell for them all. The Lahmian in Nachthafen is long gone, but Mikalsdorf and Waldenhof are openly ruled by others. Tempelhof is full of Blood Dragons who delight in testing themselves against the Black Guard of Morr, and Hunger Wood is home to at least three Strigoi and their ghoul courts, growing fat off the fallen. Not a week goes by without us burning some idiot necromancer trying to dredge corpses from Hel Fenn. And, of course, Alkharad. Based out of Teufelheim, but what he's really interested in are the forests. We chased his disciples out of Grim Wood in the west, but according to the Witch Hunter archives and the Slayer Keep's Book of Grudges, he's been lurking in the Tangled Wood for centuries, venturing out to find new creatures to experiment on." Her voice is dry, but you can hear the exhaustion in it.

"Not the first time he's taken a swing at you, I take it?"

"Barely a week goes by without it, ever since the Battle of the Eisig. Bats, birds, wolves, rats, deer... I've already lost more Greatswords than Da did, even including the ones that fell at the Battle of Drakenhof. Eventually he'll get sick of playing and send some terrible thing from the deep forests or the mountains or the Dark Lands."

That explains the Shyish. Plenty of citizens of the Empire live under threat of attack, but few have the personal attention of the beings that rule the night.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Secondly Mathilde's Windsight is significantly better than the typical Wizard
And it's not a simple matter of "More powerful Wizard = better Windsight", Mathilde has specifically invested into Windsight improvements that most other Wizards don't have

I can't for the life of me find the exact quote, but I'm certain Boney has at one point listed the various claims to fame that Mathilde had accomplished, and one of them was something along the lines of "Has one of the most potent Windsights in the Colleges though not on the level of Volans or Teclis"

Most Wizards cannot do her thing of judging the mental state of the people they're talking to through Windsight, Mathilde herself only unlocked that ability when she got the Windsage trait


That all being said I do agree that the Battle Wizards probably took an instant liking to her because she tried to actually treat them like human beings and they aren't accustomed to basic kindness
But I don't think they needed special insight into her mental state for that to be the case
It's just a big enough contrast to the way most people usually treat them that Roswita saying "thank you" feels like she threw them a party


Edit: found it
Boney said:
Mathilde is very good at a number of things, and that is recognized in-universe. But at the same time, she's not the shrewdest, wisest, killiest, savviest, puissantest, or most learned. She's aspiring to be, and one day she might reach those heights, and if she does it will be all the grander because it was earned. The titles she can claim are 'probably the best Magesight amongst mortal Wizards of the Old World' and 'most well-liked living human by non-traditional Dwarves', and those took time and effort and giving up other avenues of empowerment to attain, and are all the sweeter for it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
Parabola said:
I will observe that Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal, Plan Redshirt v4 (Sevirscope) and Plan Bring Running Shoes and Ranald also all put the Coin on the Liminal Realm, though Plan Redshirt v4.53236 definitely has the best chance of catching up with the leading plans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I added the first one, but not the one with the long version number, due to a preference for riders over darkness.
Thanks for the tips.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Fun thought while I'm rereading stuff for a write up: One of the names for the Hedgewise of old was the "Cunning folk." Which pairs interestingly with how some of their architecture (the brass keep most notably, IIRC) is described as ancient beyond belief but with techniques of skill sufficient to impress both Dwarf and Elf in the old days.

Mathilde guesses the Old Ones are "The cunning beings in silver ships," after Deathfang in his telling describing them as "Cunning beings" repeatedly.

Resultant question: Are the Hedgefolk the descendants of disenfranchised starship pilots? (That or descendants of the Old Ones in general, or at least those of them who stayed behind to fight for the World-That-Is rather than flee.)

On the one hand, yeah that's pretty far out there, but on the other hand it would be cool If the Hedgefolk's magic is so attuned to liminal realms and so opposed to Chaos because their first Liminal Realm was the realm between worlds. That is to say, Space.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cunning folk is what the Ranaldite Hedgewise call themselves, and cunning is certainly a word that fits Ranald. I doubt there's anything more to it.

On the subject of the vote, did I miss some sort of discussion or argument regarding why the Seviroscope is a good fit for a Hysh/Ulgu Windherding enchantment? Is there any idea behind how it even could work, or are we just trying a thing and hoping for the best?
 
mathymancer said:
Cunning folk is what the Ranaldite Hedgewise call themselves, and cunning is certainly a word that fits Ranald. I doubt there's anything more to it.

On the subject of the vote, did I miss some sort of discussion or argument regarding why the Seviroscope is a good fit for a Hysh/Ulgu Windherding enchantment? Is there any idea behind how it even could work, or are we just trying a thing and hoping for the best?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It is a way to get the action attempted without using more scarce Mathilde only actions, also it makes use of the skills of two enchanters as opposed to ones. Basically this is the equivalent of spending an action and 10 favor for a Lord Magister's help with something only because we have a skilled enchanter on board already we are spending a half action. Would it maybe work better with another Grey Enchanter? Maybe, but that is not enough to make up the difference IMO.

All that said thematically using the wind of Truth and revelation to help made something that is meant to reveal a part of the world hitherto unseen makes sense. If anything it is Ulgu that is not a good fit, but she is the one with the deep windsight who can actually see that rune on the soul of the elemental.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top