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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Resonant said:
I know there's been a lot of momentum behind the Rider in Red aesthetic, but wouldn't the Whispering Darkness have more synergy with Mathilde's Staff of Mistery? I feel like the massive bonuses we could apply to a shadow/fog-based apparition is really underrated, especially since they can also track and eat Dark Magic.

[X] Plan Redshirt v4.53236
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See that's one of the things I just find mildly annoying. The staff isn't "underrated" everyone and their mother in this quest wants spells that synergises with it so that it's easier to cast. Which is fine! But it also means that everytime something isn't mist or fog based but still cool there will be a voice poping up saying "but if it's mist based we get the bonus."

I know that, I don't care.
I want to get the riders because their inherently cool to me the same way I want pit of shades because it's inherently cool.
Could we make everything mist based? Probably. Do I want that to happen? Absolutely not.

Edit: sorry for ranting at you, it's just something that has been cooking inside for a while.
 
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DragonParadox said:
We can track dark magic by looking with our magesight.
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We can't eat it though :p

Tobtorp said:
But it also means that everytime something isn't mist or fog based but still cool there will be a voice poping up saying "but if it's mist based we get the bonus."
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That's not the main point, a fog-based apparition is a subtle and versatile addition to the tool-belt which we can reflavor in a lot of different ways if you want a cool aesthetic.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
We can also stab things with a sword. Why is nearly every argument against the Darkness a variation of "we can already do that", but no one seems to care that the Red Rider is just a weaker, slower, non-spellcasting version of Mathilde?
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Both the Darkness and the Riders help us at things we're good at but we're better at the things the Darkness would help with than what the Rider would help with, we're more in need of an extra body to help tip the scales in a fight that isn't going our way or a meat shield distraction to throw at the enemy while we flee for a fight that's really not going our way than we are for a way to be slightly better at something we're already spectacular at.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
We can also stab things with a sword. Why is nearly every argument against the Darkness a variation of "we can already do that", but no one seems to care that the Red Rider is just a weaker, slower, non-spellcasting version of Mathilde?
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Because we don't care if the Red Rider's physical form is killed and we do care if Mathilde is killed, so we can have the Rider do things we wouldn't be willing to have Mathiode do.
 
Resonant said:
That's not the main point, a fog-based apparition is a subtle and versatile addition to the tool-belt which we can reflavor in a lot of different ways if you want a cool aesthetic.
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No I get that wasn't the main point, I exploded a bit at you and I'm sorry for that. Just a pet peeve I have.

But generally the question is, do we want to be better at assassination and ambush or at combat and battlefield usefulness.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yes, but seeing things twice does not make it more visible, stabbing things twice tend to kill something more.
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I believe the original point was "tracking dark magic". During the Alberich hunt, Mathilde was able to determine which direction he was in based upon the trail of dark magic his ritual left, but could only identify direction, not distance or location.

It seems likely that a Darkness apparition could follow such a trail, since one of the main aspects of apparitions is that they can relentlessly follow their target almost anywhere.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I believe the original point was "tracking dark magic". During the Alberich hunt, Mathilde was able to determine which direction he was in based upon the trail of dark magic his ritual left, but could only identify direction, not distance or location.

It seems likely that a Darkness apparition could follow such a trail, since one of the main aspects of apparitions is that they can relentlessly follow their target almost anywhere.
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That is possible, but it does not seem likely, the Whispering Darkness is a very minor Aetheryc gribble and Mathilde has the best mage sight of any mortal in the Old World.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
We can also stab things with a sword. Why is nearly every argument against the Darkness a variation of "we can already do that", but no one seems to care that the Red Rider is just a weaker, slower, non-spellcasting version of Mathilde?
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Can all Grey Wizards stab things with a sword? No, because Ulgu is not very stabby. Shadowsteed was a stroke of genius, pushing the boundaries of what's appropriate for Grey Magic, and the Nazguls are valuable for the same reason. There's a ton of misty foggy dark whatever manifestations of Ulgu. There's not a lot of stab.
 
It is inherently a pretty good bodyguard spell, the only problem is probably that the rider in red doesn't want to loom as backup, he wants to hunt... So like... Don't bring it to negotiations?
 
DragonParadox said:
That is possible, but it does not seem likely, the Whispering Darkness is a very minor Aetheryc gribble and Mathilde has the best mage sight of any mortal in the Old World.
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I'm not sure I'd go that far. The Grey Lords exist, for one. Volan was apprantly better than her too, though not too far off, but it shows there still a ways to go. There's also the thousand year old Grandma. And there's a whole bunch of LMs that could rival her.

Like, I fully agree that hers is among the best of the colleges, probably in general, and in the field of divine magic it probably outright is the best. But I'm damn sure grandma is better at seeing spirits, some LM enchanting specialists better at the fine details, the LMs of their respective winds are better at sensing those winds, and the Grey Lords have been doing high level magic for ten times longer than the collges have existed.

Which brings me to the final point that Whispering Darkness is particularly noted for being good at a thing, so it's bound to be hella good at that thing. And inclination matters. Kragg has also been doing magic at incredibly high levels for a very long time, but his ability to feel magic is worse than Mathilde's. So why shouldn't a being of magic that eats magic have naturally excellent sense for magic? Especially for dark magic.
 
NexusEye said:
2. Sperm donors. Two sections:2.1. Choosing the biological mother.2.1.1. Mathilde as the biological mother. Would inherit the genetic component of Mathilde's magical potential which is likely to be significant. Likely to result in a magically gifted child. Downsides: Pregnancy may cause drop in productivity especially in physical tasks and birth and recovery would take time, might be represented by lowing an AP. Also depending on if the Jade's druidic faction's lineage system works they may not consider a child not biologically descended from Panoramia to not be truly her child, excluding them from inheriting any privileges or secret traditions from Panoramia's bloodline
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Note that this would cause the child to kinda-spiritually and legally be a half-dwarf, right? Or would the other methods also convey that?
 
BurnNote said:
I'm not sure I'd go that far. The Grey Lords exist, for one. Volan was apprantly better than her too, though not too far off, but it shows there still a ways to go. There's also the thousand year old Grandma. And there's a whole bunch of LMs that could rival her.

Like, I fully agree that hers is among the best of the colleges, probably in general, and in the field of divine magic it probably outright is the best. But I'm damn sure grandma is better at seeing spirits, some LM enchanting specialists better at the fine details, the LMs of their respective winds are better at sensing those winds, and the Grey Lords have been doing high level magic for ten times longer than the collges have existed.

Which brings me to the final point that Whispering Darkness is particularly noted for being good at a thing, so it's bound to be hella good at that thing. And inclination matters. Kragg has also been doing magic at incredibly high levels for a very long time, but his ability to feel magic is worse than Mathilde's. So why shouldn't a being of magic that eats magic have naturally excellent sense for magic? Especially for dark magic.
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They Grey Lords are not mortal, I meant actual mortal as in will die of old age, I was basically paragraph the GM in a post that was recently quoted.
 
BurnNote said:
I'm not sure I'd go that far. The Grey Lords exist, for one. Volan was apprantly better than her too, though not too far off, but it shows there still a ways to go. There's also the thousand year old Grandma. And there's a whole bunch of LMs that could rival her.

Like, I fully agree that hers is among the best of the colleges, probably in general, and in the field of divine magic it probably outright is the best. But I'm damn sure grandma is better at seeing spirits, some LM enchanting specialists better at the fine details, the LMs of their respective winds are better at sensing those winds, and the Grey Lords have been doing high level magic for ten times longer than the collges have existed.

Which brings me to the final point that Whispering Darkness is particularly noted for being good at a thing, so it's bound to be hella good at that thing. And inclination matters. Kragg has also been doing magic at incredibly high levels for a very long time, but his ability to feel magic is worse than Mathilde's. So why shouldn't a being of magic that eats magic have naturally excellent sense for magic? Especially for dark magic.
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This quote to be exact.
Boney said:
The titles she can claim are 'probably the best Magesight amongst mortal Wizards of the Old World'
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Though you could argue elf's aren't mortal in the traditional sense.
 
Somic said:
Can all Grey Wizards stab things with a sword? No, because Ulgu is not very stabby. Shadowsteed was a stroke of genius, pushing the boundaries of what's appropriate for Grey Magic, and the Nazguls are valuable for the same reason. There's a ton of misty foggy dark whatever manifestations of Ulgu. There's not a lot of stab.
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Pretty much. Shadow Knives, the most powerful Ulgu non-Battle Magic spell aside from the extremely situational Burning Shadows is noted as having to exploit a very weak association of short blades and stealth to create a spell as deadly as the Relatively Simple spells of many other Colleges. And while Ulgu does have powerful direct damage spells in the form of Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades those are very high level and difficult to cast. A Red Rider spell could fulfill a niche of a direct damage spell that isn't super hard to cast by frontloading the difficulty to catching and binding the Apparition in the first place.
 
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The Whispering Darkness can grapple foes and pull them to the ground. The only Ulgu spell that can do that isn't a spell, it's a mastery, and has a very short range.

Sending an independent, non-corporal fog to harass and hinder our foes is, in my eyes, better than sending out a fully corporal knight to act as a meat shield.
 
mathymancer said:
On the subject of the vote, did I miss some sort of discussion or argument regarding why the Seviroscope is a good fit for a Hysh/Ulgu Windherding enchantment? Is there any idea behind how it even could work, or are we just trying a thing and hoping for the best?
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The latter, mostly. There's a vague idea that the "See through hidden things" aspect of Hysh and the "Create an Illusion" aspect of Ulgu may work together in a manner synergistic to the goal, but it's very much in "Try it and find out" territory. Boney has at least verified that it can be tried, with no word on likelihood of success.

However, the intent for the action is less to get a working prototype and more to explore Windherding in general with the prototype being a nice bonus if it happens. None of the proposed Windherding projects are more than test-fodder; Mathilde's not going to swap out her robes for a Cloak of Flashy Escapes even if we roll a 100 on it.

So if even the more likely-to-succeed projects will get tossed away after they're done, we may as well use the action to shoot for the moon. We'll get Windherding data either way.
 
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DragonParadox said:
They Grey Lords are not mortal, I meant actual mortal as in will die of old age, I was basically paragraph the GM in a post that was recently quoted.
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Are dwarfs mortal? Because they don't die of old age if they don't want to. Are elfs mortal? Because something very similar seems to apply to them. Just that most don't seem to want to live enough after a certain time. And high level human spell casters, like Mathilde, aren't so bound to age either. So is Mathilde disqualified?
 
BurnNote said:
Are dwarfs mortal? Because they don't die of old age if they don't want to. Are elfs mortal? Because something very similar seems to apply to them. Just that most don't seem to want to live enough after a certain time. And high level human spell casters, like Mathilde, aren't so bound to age either. So is Mathilde disqualified?
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We are still currently part of a mortal species and ourselves mortal. We live a lot longer now but Mathilde can still die of old age.
 
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