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Mathilde is not a genius librarian per se, but her Learning 29 isn't for nothing. What she lacks is experience, and she can make up for that by hiring Verenan consultants, which we should already do since we're making a library and we want their help. They might not have a central structure, but they have lots of experience over many years working in libraries themselves, and Mathilde can pick and choose what works best with their advice.

For example, there might be certain things that Verenans have always wanted, but for one reason or another the general libraries they've worked on could never do it. Either because of lack of funding or a lack of craftsmanship expertise. If there's anything this library doesn't lack in, it's those two things.
 
I'm gonna modify the Other Purchases plan a bit with something I think is good.

[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. Eonir: Romance. (300g)
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Weaving Spider silk
[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. Eonir: Romance. (300g)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
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While people can do what they want.

I would like to remind everyone that we are likely to be spending 2000g next turn on Labs.

do we really want to be spending 300g on books we can get later for 'free'?
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Weaving Spider silk

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Geography of Laurelorn

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Weaving Spider silk
[X] Runed pistols
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

If it's not an urgent buy I'm not a big fan of spending personal funds on books that we can get through the library later at this point, especially considering Mathilde is hitting the career/social stage of prominence/project independence where it's expected she shells out for a good amount of stuff herself, rather than lean on a backer. so conserving funds seems quite important, considering she's not actually very wealthy.
 
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@Boney I'm curious about something, now that Thorek is in on the project are his needs in terms of laboratory equipment going to be included in the action and if so will they cost more? Or is he going to handle his own workshop like Kragg did in K8P?
 
Yes he did.



They are probably ecstatic right now.
They will probably split off a branch family to live in Kvinn-Wyr permanently.
Someone else's perspective on the Eonir is nowhere near as useful as what the Eonir think of themselves. Keep in mind that this policy has been largely isolationist for hundreds of years, which probably means that there are massive blind sport in what anyone reading solely imperial/dwarven books can know.
Yeah, but the library bonus is an abstraction. Boney won't and shouldn't give us a +20 just because certain books were written closer to the source of their knowledge.
Honestly we usually gather it through the Open World Protagonist method, aka killing and/or ransacking people we don't like. I don't think we've... hell even back when we were working for Abelheim we were skimming some gold off the top. She gave back the taxes from her territory. I suppose if it doesn't involve some level of violence or illegality she's not really interested :V.
She didn't give them back IIRC. She told the steward to male use of them as needed, but I'm pretty sure that if we are really hard on funds, a small pile of money waits for us in the Shadowkeep.
Nah. Pedantic and fastidious.
For that it is worth I think it is unreasonable to assume that debt can or will ever be called in. We are talking about a legal and religious snarl in the Karaz Ankor. I think it will take decades at the earliest if not centuries to reach any sort of consensus.

We can pretty much pretend that debt does not exist.

As for books costs that is all out of Belegar's pocket, all grand ideals aside the library is a way to get Belegar to subsidize Mathilde's books buying habits now that she no longer works for him.
Who inherits Mathilde's debts currently? Because while I don't think we should float 2000gc indefinitely I also don't think we should just forget about and have Dwarves knock at some random schmuck's door three generations down the line. 2000gc isn't pocket change.
Lord Ulric and the Making of the World (The book that contains that legend about Ulric saving the world from Skaven)
Wait, does that book also include the Ulrican world creation myth and cosmology?
Which is why I voted to add Medicine and Tradecraft texts to the library, so that the people living in K8P can learn that knowledge freely. Want to learn carpentry? Come down to the tradecraft section. Interested in blacksmithing? We have a bookcase full of it. (Also voted for religious texts, because our Divinity section has like 50 books on Ranald and a dozen each on Ulric and the Ancestor Gods and pretty much nothing else).

The Library of Kron-Azril-Ungol is for the people, and it's with that in mind that I want to build the collection for. Not to give Mathlide a +5 bonus when speaking to elves, and not to get silk sheets, but to create an institute of knowledge and learning that even the common human/dwarf/halfling can utilise.

That is my vision for the library, and I don't know, maybe I've misunderstood why we even built the thing. I'm just trying to build as broad a collection as possible, not hyperfocus on one very narrow topic in the hopes that it will solve a specific problem.
They haven't even started building the library yet. Books right now should be stuff we want for ourselves. That's either 3 specific topics for specific stuff we want to do sooner rather than later, or two Eonir topics to either increase an already maxed out bonus we want to apply next turn or to get books on stuff that isn't available elsewhere, or just Backfill and hope we get lucky.
These two options combined would fully encompass Eonir perspective of history in the Old World.
-[*] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[*] Karaz Ankor
The Eonir don't have books on the Empire that surrounds them? Also, what was their trade specialized House actually doing for all these generations of isolation?
It is day one of construction. It is a little early to be declaring that the library has failed to fulfil its primary principle. Do your best to scrape together a glimmer of faith in me as a QM and reserve judgement a little longer.
Sorry about that. I think it's mostly my own failure of imagination that had me struggle to come up with incredibly awesome Organization architecture that is incompatible with the stuff you described for Comfort or Holy.
So I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for you to blow my mind once more.

Edit: The last part is not sarcasm. My questions were in fact due to a combination of failure to imagine and impatience and I do trust that whatever you come up with will be awesome in one way or another. Even if I end up thinking that I would have preferred Comfort or Holy after all after seeing the results, I'm sure it will be due to my preference differing to the preference of others and not due to QM implementation.
 
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Mathilde is not a genius librarian per se, but her Learning 29 isn't for nothing. What she lacks is experience, and she can make up for that by hiring Verenan consultants, which we should already do since we're making a library and we want their help. They might not have a central structure, but they have lots of experience over many years working in libraries themselves, and Mathilde can pick and choose what works best with their advice.
Honestly I'm pretty sure whatever Mathilde's gonna hand in for her inevitable essay on library ordering methodology and how it's been impacted by social bias is gonna be put through the wringer by whatever experts on administration and organization that Belegar can hunt down with the authority of a dawi king of the resurgent Eight Peaks by default. Picking Order just lets their advice be a primary influence on how the library would be laid out, and not secondary to making sure certain books are properly locked away, or reinforcing it so it could survive a skaven superbomb.
 
Wait, does that book also include the Ulrican world creation myth and cosmology?
Yeah. I posted the full excerpt but then I had to cut it down to three paragraphs in fear of a copyright dilemma. It has nearly the full cosmology of the Ulrican mythos as well as the development of the Ulrican creed over the ages presented as a myth. It's available in the Ulrican church of Middenheim.
 
Who inherits Mathilde's debts currently? Because while I don't think we should float 2000gc indefinitely I also don't think we should just forget about and have Dwarves knock at some random schmuck's door three generations down the line. 2000gc isn't pocket change.

At a guess whoever we leave the EIC shares to, given that I think they can bear the burden of debt.
 
Who inherits Mathilde's debts currently? Because while I don't think we should float 2000gc indefinitely I also don't think we should just forget about and have Dwarves knock at some random schmuck's door three generations down the line. 2000gc isn't pocket change.

If Mathilde dies the thread will be able to retroactively write her will, and can make arrangements for that.

The Eonir don't have books on the Empire that surrounds them?

They have books about their experiences with the Empire, but those books tell the reader a lot more about the Eonir than they do about the Empire. Until the battle in the Schadensumpf, it's possible that there might not have been a single Elf in Laurelorn that could name more than five provinces off the top of their head.

Also, what was their trade specialized House actually doing for all these generations of isolation?

Dominating the flow of goods between Forestborn and Cityborn.
 
They haven't even started building the library yet. Books right now should be stuff we want for ourselves. That's either 3 specific topics for specific stuff we want to do sooner rather than later, or two Eonir topics to either increase an already maxed out bonus we want to apply next turn or to get books on stuff that isn't available elsewhere, or just Backfill and hope we get lucky.

This is the first official purchase order Kron-Azril-Ungol will be making. It's not wrong to use that purchase order to round out categories that the people of K8P will be using the library for.

We should start as we intend to go on; collecting knowledge for the benefit of the people. We should not be using the library solely as a personal resource. Hell, if that's what people wanted, we should have voted to spend the boon on having Belegar fund our private library indefinitely, not build a brand new public library from scratch.

Kron-Azril-Ungol is not Mathilde's library. It is the library that Mathilde administrates, and we have a responsibility to ensure it sticks to the charter we chose—"for the people".

This is the hill I'm going to die on.

Besides, do people really think there will be a practical benefit to obtaining 4000 years worth of texts on elven textiles and textile manufacture? "Welcome to the greatest library in the Karaz Ankor. Here is the closet where we keep our religious texts, and over there is the floor hosting all our books on how elves make clothes."
 
Something funny that fits remarkably well into WH Empire-aesthetics: Bookwheel - Wikipedia

It may look weird, but who among us does not use the ability to have multiple tabs open at once?

Edit: It's particularly useful for bibliographic catalogues, since describing the entire content of our library, even in short titles and keywords, will likely fill multiple huge books and before more modern card catalogues are invented it's very handy to have these multiple huge books on easy access at a central place in the library.
 
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So, what do we actually want to do next turn(s) where non-magical books would help us?
  • Explore Laurelorn some more.
  • Smooch with specific Laurelorn Houses.
    • Hekarti
    • Hoeth
    • Vaul
    • Ulric
    • Forest spirits?
  • Things I don't prioritize but others might:
    • Bedsheets
    • Greatsword training (some Elves use greatswords right?)
    • Edit: Please feel free to add more to this list.
Based on that, my vote:

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Hekarti

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Hoeth

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Vaul

I personally want go approach one of the magic Houses next turn. I also have a hunch that sending Max to the Vaulites will win next turn, so any bonus he can get would help.

[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

[X] [PURCHASE] Imperial Verena Extensive.

I do not want to buy basic Laurelorn books on Elven gods when we can and should be buying two whole topics on them each turn, which includes Extensive and probably another tag like Obscure/Antiquarian/Esoteric. I am very sure that already owning the basic ones doesn't somehow give us extra options when we copy the rest, so this would literally be money thrown out the window for each god that we don't have an action with exactly next turn.

I am voting Extensive Verena mostly because nobody else is voting No purchase. At least that will give us another good target for a lucky Backfill roll in the future.

By the way @Boney I think this was asked already, but what kinds of books does the Karaz Ankor have available on Human or Elven gods, if any?

Edit for approval votes:

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Beastmen

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Karaz Ankor

[X] [DWARF] Runed pistols
 
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By the way @Boney I think this was asked already, but what kinds of books does the Karaz Ankor have available on Human or Elven gods, if any?

The only God with books available for purchase is Sigmar. It's possible they might have books on Elven Gods, but if they do they'd be buried deep in some extremely old archives so wouldn't be available to Mathilde right now.
 
If Mathilde dies the thread will be able to retroactively write her will, and can make arrangements for that.
All my debts I bequeath on Malekith durr hurr.
Im joking of course, but my assumption was that while we can give any of our possessions to whoever we want, rules on Dwarven debt inheritance would be much more stringent and specific.

Possibilities I see:
A) It goes to a specific person whose inheritance we make conditional on accepting our debt in the will proper and said person does in fact accept as witnessed by a notary the Dwarves trust. This is conditional on us actually writing that into the will though so in case we don't, one of the below applies.
B) It goes to whoever inherited liquid cash from us proportional to the amount of cash they inherited.
C) It goes in full to whoever inherited whatever the Dwarves consider to be of the biggest monetary value.
D) It follows family lines and some peasants get royally fucked.
E) Mathilde was considered as adopted fully into her Guild as a Clanless and the Grey College inherits the debt before random blood ties.

Anyway, my personal plan was to bequeath all our liquid cash to the Grey College as one last tithe and "fulfilment" of the Vow of Poverty. So if that's more than 2000gc then they should also keep the debt in their books in my opinion. But that's just me.
They have books about their experiences with the Empire, but those books tell the reader a lot more about the Eonir than they do about the Empire. Until the battle in the Schadensumpf, it's possible that there might not have been a single Elf in Laurelorn that could name more than five provinces off the top of their head.
What category would those be in?
This is the first official purchase order Kron-Azril-Ungol will be making. It's not wrong to use that purchase order to round out categories that the people of K8P will be using the library for.

We should start as we intend to go on; collecting knowledge for the benefit of the people. We should not be using the library solely as a personal resource. Hell, if that's what people wanted, we should have voted to spend the boon on having Belegar fund our private library indefinitely, not build a brand new public library from scratch.

Kron-Azril-Ungol is not Mathilde's library. It is the library that Mathilde administrates, and we have a responsibility to ensure it sticks to the charter we chose—"for the people".

This is the hill I'm going to die on.

Besides, do people really think there will be a practical benefit to obtaining 4000 years worth of texts on elven textiles and textile manufacture? "Welcome to the greatest library in the Karaz Ankor. Here is the closet where we keep our religious texts, and over there is the floor hosting all our books on how elves make clothes."
There's three rebuttals that come to mind.

As long as the Library isn't open to literally anyone, all books bought for it count as "first purchase". I'm with you with buying those basic knowledge books until then, but there is nothing actually special about the literal first purchase other than sentimentality.

Eventually the library should be filled with literally every topic of note. Including Elven weaving or whatever else. So buying it when it is already useful to us just makes sense. In fact, once the Library stands there should be a team hired that independently of our personal needs just goes out into the world to acquire books based on a cost/usefulness calculation.

Elven textiles specifically (which is not something I am even voting for by the way) would directly help the people of K8P. And I don't mean just by enriching their local economy. I mean helping all those Empire weavers Francesco was supposed to import on a personal level.

That said, @Boney , if we wanted to just buy basic books on spider silk weaving instead of the whole Mourning sortiment on textiles, could we do that with the [][PURCHASE] option? What would we have to write in? Textiles +1? Something more specific?
 
Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. The most prominent Gods of Laurelorn.
Huh, it's interesting that Kurnous isn't a top god for them.

Then again, I imagine that comes down to prominence being defined by the Cityborn? I'd imagine Kurnous is more prominent among the Forestborn.

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Weaving Spider silk
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
 
Magesight has many advantages over conventional vision, but one that it lacks is depth - regular sight has two eyes, but Magesight only has one soul, so with Chamon on every side it takes utter concentration to make out any details.
@Boney, would fixing that be a possible research avenue? We only have one soul, but we do have Wolf's soul which is somehow linked to ours. I don't know if the nature of the soul/mind link allows for this (or if it allows for Wolf to use Magesight - Wolf can use magic to speak but I don't know if he can actually see the Winds) but it seems like a valuable research avenue for someone as Windsight-focused as Mathilde!
 
@Boney To rephrase: Would this be an acceptable write-in? What would be the total cost?

[][PURCHASE] Laurelorn books on Spider Silk Weaving translated into Reikspiel as a gift to the Viceroyalty of Karag Nar.
(Edit: Conditional on him sharing a copy with the K8P library once it opens).

Doing it this way around and getting all books on one specific deity instead seems much more sensible than doing it the other way around IMO.
 
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