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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.
[X] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
 
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.

[X] ACTION: Turn back

Edit:
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
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Chlof said:
[X] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.
[X] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
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Waystones regularly move dhar through them with it out corrupting the land, that's sort of normal operation? You can't really corrupt a waystone either it's pumping magic through the world or it isn't. You can clog them you can turn the winds of magic to another purpose on the faucet end, but I don't think you can corrupt the plumbing so to speak.

Frankly the idea that this is wood elves helping Karak Dum makes even less sense.

[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.

[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
DragonParadox said:
It's literally made of Chaos and madness second only to actual daemons. You aren't fixing Morghur with behavior therapy only magic
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I mean it could just be a look alike. Bony posted that there are similar looking beastmen. It's looking like it's either:

1:Golden age dawi super illusion
2:Enslaved beastmen with a morghur look alike
3:Those are actually dwarves that have kickflipped into cyberpunk level body transformation
4:Actual Beastmen allies, with non-chaotic beastmen
5:Surprise tree spirits/dryadd
 
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Burned_Cookie said:
Set the Dhar on fire.

Im just kidding of course, but can you imagine second secreting the entire stream?
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My impression is the Second Secret only applies to unraveling Dhar constructs, since it's linked with the First Secret of how to make Dhar more stable by braiding it and bracing against itself. The Second Secret can be used to tear apart undead and necromancy and other spells built with Dhar, but still leaves behind environmental Dhar poisoning. It won't annihilate Dhar entirely.
 
[JK] THEORY: Fuck if I know.
[JK] ACTION: Lets just leave, one Karak is good enough.

But in all seriousness, I am not willing to risk the expedition for the sake of our collective curiosity.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] ACTION: Turn back

We can leave, we should leave. We've reclaimed one Karak, and Borek told us to head back and tell the Karaz Ankor, so lets commit a mugging and go home.
 
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.

[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
I think we need to investigate from a meta-perspective because if Thorek can he'll probably try and cut off the flow from Karag Dum if he truly believes it has fallen to Morghur. Sure the magic flow is fine now, but he can't exactly have experts check it and be certain they're right. And even if it's okay now it could be used to attack the entire Karaz Ankor at any time.
 
From a meta perspective, I don't think Boney would have set all this stuff up if he didn't expect us to interact with it in at least some way. This isn't a mundane threat for which the options are fighting and running. This is probably either a mystery that can be solved somehow, or a very elaborate probably-Slaaneshi Chaos plot to trick us into going deep and getting tempted or something. The former seems more likely, certainly none of the other Dwarfs seem at all tempted.

Mind, this doesn't mean we aren't likely to die investigating that mystery, but since we're all the way here, I feel we're obliged to. It's important to at least know whether the Waystone energy from Dum is sus. Mathilde's life is worth risking for that, I think.

I am not sure what specifically I'll be voting for, but it won't be turning back. Not... yet.

Most likely, some variety of scouting ahead while everyone else holds position.
 
[X] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.
[X] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
 
shepsquared said:
I think we need to investigate from a meta-perspective because if Thorek can he'll probably try and cut off the flow from Karag Dum if he truly believes it has fallen to Morghur. Sure the magic flow is fine now, but he can't exactly have experts check it and be certain they're right. And even if it's okay now it could be used to attack the entire Karaz Ankor at any time.
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Why can't we just find the next mountain downstream and turn that off?
 
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has built magical flesh golems, and Morghur is one.
[X] THEORY: This is a mass hallucination.

The "it's all an illusion!" plans make sense, but seem to forget how completely uncharacteristic this is. Dwarves don't do illusions. Even the Chaos Dwarves don't behave like that - they're still Dwarves, just with a demonbinding and blood-sacrificing habit.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Well... okay...

Wasn't expecting that. So Borek was the changeling?
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The changeling? Have we been expecting a changeling to turn up soon? And I thought those were a wood elf thing.

I think the best course of action is to scout out what's happening some more, clearly something fucky is going on and I feel like if we just turn tail and run we're never going to get another opportunity to find out what's what.

My theory right now is... Fuck it, I've got no clue what's going on. I just don't want us to give up right now. Even if it's dangerous I feel like investigating a mystery like this is Exactly what we're here for, and if anyone in the expedition could get in and yet back out again, it's Matty-D. I say we snoop around solo and be prepared to bug out while having the expedition formed up for immediate retreat.
 
[X] Plan We Need A Hero That Isn't Borek
[X] THEORY: This may be a powerful illusion cast by a Runelord, using one or more Master Runes powered by Karag Dum's Waystone. Karag Dum spent so long preparing for Chaos, including knowing that Chaos was waxing at least years in advance back before the Great War Against Chaos, so they may have realized long ago that the only way to survive such an event would be a powerful illusion capable of deceiving any Chaos-aligned forces into thinking that Karag Dum had already been conquered. Those who were not deterred by the lack of a target Karag Dum presented would then fall for the second part of the illusion, which was "Morghur", a figure universally revered among Beastmen; by placing any foes into a position from which they would be extremely vulnerable to a sudden and deadly ambush by Karag Dum forces or rune magic (or a superweapon like the Eye of Gazul). The illusion works because it is very potent and based on Waystone-backed Master Runes and not by any Wind-based magic. In other words, it's an outside context problem that, by its nature as dwarf runes, counters magic, and thus the magical senses of all other foes/casters. The entire "Cor-Dum" thing makes this more likely, because a great way for an illusion to work reliably is to magically convince the target(s) that it's true the moment they see it. Additionally, there's no way this is the real Morghur, because Morghur would not be satisfied with this kind of patient long-game against a dwarf hold deep in the Chaos Wastes. Additionally, Morghur would never act so affectionately towards a dwarf while also not mutating them at all (and letting them pass/leave without hesitation). The fact that this illusion also works effortlessly on dwarves despite the distance and despite being so blatant lends some credence to this: it works so effortlessly on dwarves, even from a distance, because it's rune-based, not Wind-based. Furthermore, the fact that this looks like Beastmen turning a mountain into a Wyrdstone makes little sense--illusions like this would not be tolerated by Khorne, and Beastmen are loyal to all four of the Chaos Gods--certainly, Morghur is not any more affiliated with Slaanesh than it is with Tzeentch and Nurgle. Lastly, there is no way the figure is actually Morghur or a Beastman at all. Beastmen are not known for restraint, especially against a dwarf that is alone and in enemy territory.

[X] ACTION: In order to confirm that this is not Morghur, Mathilde and a volunteer Slayer (who, as best as Mathilde can tell under the circumstances, would seem to be most resistant to Slaaneshi or Tzeentchian illusions/temptations) will wait in place while the rest of the Expedition backs off a bit, ready to run away at full speed should Mathilde not return within a set amount of time (if a Slayer is not available, a volunteer Ranger will do). If this "Morghur" does not challenge them after an hour, Mathilde will watch as the volunteer Ranger or Slayer approaches the "Morghur" figure under the strict instruction to turn back and return to Mathilde after meeting this "Morghur", no matter who or what they see or hear. If he reports back, check him over for dhar corruption, mutations, or being mentally compromised--from a safe distance. If he checks out, then we make another decision/plan from there. If he does not return or obey instructions/orders, then we make a new plan from there. Of course, if there are no remaining Slayers or volunteers, then we will approach "Morghur" ourselves...with some serious backup--Asarnil and Deathfang (if they're willing), and any Rangers or Knights that are willing to go with us, along with the light Choir (given their sheer power against daemons) and Esbern and Seija (given they're capable in direct melee without relying on magic).


I'm worried that it might be the Changeling instead of Morghur; sending a volunteer out to this "Morghur" under strict orders to return back after meeting it, no matter what, will give us more data. If it's a dwarf-based illusion, then we'll expect to see that no harm or challenge will come from "Morghur". If he returns, we get even more data. If he does not obey orders, but is not harmed, then we'll have more data. Borek would have been perfect for this, but he went and wandered off himself without even giving anyone a chance to say anything about it.
 
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[X] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.

[X] THEORY: Karag Dum converted their Rune of Valaya into a Rune of Valaya's Vengeance, and used it to burn away all of the surrounding Dhar, causing a cataclysmic explosion and presumably wiping out whatever threat they were facing. But having lost their Rune of Valaya, they no longer had a defence against the Winds of Chaos, and they knew it. They could not simply die, for they had a critical duty to protect their hold, for reasons that are secrets of my Guild and Karak Eight Peaks, and so they decided that if they could not survive to defend it as Dwarves they would no longer be Dwarves. They found a way for dwarves to become beastmen, and know that they must defend their Karak as though it were their herdstone. Pity them.

[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.

[X] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.

[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.

[x] ACTION: Form up the steam-wagons for defence.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.

[X] ACTION: Mathilde will infiltrate the hold and look for more answers. In the mean time the convoy should circle the Steam-Wagons and avoid provoking a fight they can't win. If she has not returned within 24 hours they should turn back and attempt to make their way back to civilisation to inform the Karaz Ankor, Empire and Kislev what they found.

[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.

I really *really* don't think that this is an illusion. If Mathilde "Best Windsight in the old world" Webber, Lady Magister of Ulgu and Favoured of Ranald can't see even an hint of illusions here when activily trying I think its safe to assume that its not illusions.
 
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Luxon said:
[X] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads, Elgi and illusions
[X] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads and illusions.




[X] Action - Approach Cor Dum
His warping effect isn't affecting the area around him, it is not really Morghur. Borek was allowed to pass in on his own because the group watching on the other side of the illusion recognise him as a friend.
Approach alone at first to see if they recognise us as coming with him as friendly.

Not attached to the action at all. Might well change it once I see what other people have put forward.
Will be heading off in not too long, will respond to queries about my two suggestion if any exist when I get back.
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Mathilde would be able to tell if this was an Athel loren pumped illusion. Not going to lie the "Actually it's wood elves" idea is kind of crazy.
 
Luxon said:
[] Action - Approach Cor Dum
His warping effect isn't affecting the area around him, it is not really Morghur. Borek was allowed to pass in on his own because the group watching on the other side of the illusion recognise him as a friend.
Approach alone at first to see if they recognise us as coming with him as friendly.

Not attached to the action at all. Might well change it once I see what other people have put forward.
Will be heading off in not too long, will respond to queries about my two suggestion if any exist when I get back.
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I will note that this is a very high-risk action. If this is either real Morghur somehow, or something else that protects Dum but is also very powerful and won't recognize us as a friend, we're probably just dead if we try approaching.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
[X] ACTION: In order to confirm that this is not Morghur, Mathilde and a volunteer Slayer (who, as best as Mathilde can tell under the circumstances, would seem to be most resistant to Slaaneshi or Tzeentchian illusions/temptations) will wait in place while the rest of the Expedition backs off a bit, ready to run away at full speed should Mathilde not return within a set amount of time (if a Slayer is not available, a volunteer Ranger will do).
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For the record, we are out of slayers and have been since Karak Vlag.

Unless some of the remaining dwarves want to take up the vows?
 
Repeating previous comment for vote purposes and stuff
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
There is some sort of link between Karak Dum and Cor-Dum. Borek was not surprised to see Cor-Dum. Disappointed, but not surprised. He knew this was always a possibility.

[ ] THEORY: When Karak Dum warned the others about Chaos, the other holds instead chose to freak out about the elven army that had just landed upon the shores of the old world. The elves were later revealed to have been chasing Cor-Dum. What if K-Dum tried to remove C-Dum so the elves would go away and the dwarves could send reinforcments up north. However, they bound the demigod to their waystone instead—possibly by accident, possibly on purpose, definitly with forbidden knowledge. They weren't able to prevent the great war in time, so they chose to double down and make Cor-Dum their protector.
[ ] ACTION: ???FLEE???

Also, when was the last confirmed sighting of Cor-Dum? I know he can teleport from forest to forest, but if he's playing guard dog for K-Dum that leaves him less time to destroy civilisation.
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[X] THEORY: When Karak Dum warned the others about Chaos, the other holds instead chose to freak out about the elven army that had just landed upon the shores of the old world. The elves were later revealed to have been chasing Cor-Dum. What if K-Dum tried to remove C-Dum so the elves would go away and the dwarves could send reinforcments up north. However, they bound the demigod to their waystone instead—possibly by accident, possibly on purpose, definitly with forbidden knowledge. They weren't able to prevent the great war in time, so they chose to double down and make Cor-Dum their protector.

[JK] ACTION: ???FLEE???
[JK] ACTION: Investigate Cor-Dum
[JK] ACTION: Infiltrate the forest and/or the mountain
[JK] ACTION: Go full necromancer and raise up an army of skellies to retake Dum
[JK] ACTION: Find and punch Borek, then question him.
[JK] ACTION: Go home, this is too big for us to understand
[JK] ACTION: Roll to disbelieve

[X] ACTION: Offer Snorri command of the expedition, take it if he declines, then fetch the chaos cup and then go home.
 
Lupercal said:
[X] ACTION: Mathilde will infiltrate the hold and look for more answers. In the mean time the convoy should circle the Steam-Wagons and avoid provoking a fight they can't win. If she has not returned within 24 hours they should turn back and attempt to make their way back to civilisation to inform the Karaz Ankor, Empire and Kislev what they found.
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I don't think Mathilde is that good an infiltrator.
Those guys have defended against Ulgu-shamans for a long long time.
 
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