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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I think the Dwarven Runemasters made some crazy forbidden runes and one of them had the result of turning Dwarves to beastmen, or at least what looks like beastmen.

We know that Dwarven Runes can empower empower dwarves with presumably magic, so presumably some forbidden rune magic could have this as an unintended effect. Maybe some sort of chaos rune. I remember Kragg being unwilling to use runes that he was utterly sure were not chaos afflicted in the slightest.
 
BoneyM said:
"What were the Elves doing?"

"Pursuing the Beastman demigod Cor-Dum, but that was not known at the time. The Phoenix King Finubar was still new to the throne, and many Dwarves suspected the worst when his forces made landfall in the Old World."
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Way back from the briefing on Karak Dum Runesmiths from Thorek.
Cor-Dum was around roughly the time of the Great War against Chaos.
 
This is not my proposed vote, just trying to clean up some of the suggestions offered into short vote options that are easy to copy-paste, instead of run-on paragraphs with long explanations. Mathilde does not need absolutely everything spelled out in the vote text. Suggested additions are welcome and I'll edit them in until the vote opens. I'm aware that several of these overlap, and some are more generic than others.

[] THEORY: Karag Dum is intact, and has a vast illusion of Morghur for protection.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum's inhabitants have mutated into beastmen, and Morghur is one.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum has built magical flesh golems, and Morghur is one.
[] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[] THEORY: This is a mass hallucination.
[] THEORY: There is a shapeshifter involved that is neither Dwarf nor Beastman.
[] THEORY: Distance in the Chaos Wastes is fluid. This is a real place, but not Karag Dum.


pucflek said:
[] THEORY: Karag Dum is intact, created/is masquerading runemaster as Morghur to attract and command beastmen.
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I like this, I turned this into the slightly more generic: 'Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.' in my list.
 
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Set the Dhar on fire.

Im just kidding of course, but can you imagine second secreting the entire stream?
 
[]THEORY: This does not appear to actually be Morghur. He does not behave as one would expect him to. The winds behave around him in a way that could be his famous aura of doom, but i have seen similar around Runelords. Hard to say in chaos wastes. I think it may be disguise for something that attracts beastmen as sort of ablative armor, as well as nominally steer them from attacking the Hold proper.
[]THEORY: It appears Morghur has been suborned by the dwarfs to do their bidding, namely protect the hold.



I got nothing for action. I would also appreciate if someone collated this into something more attractive looking.

EDIT: ninja'd. Thanks Exmorri, better than anything i could put together.

[] THEORY: Karag Dum is intact, created/is masquerading runemaster as Morghur to attract and command beastmen.

is one that i did not see.

EDIT2.:
Exmorri said:
[] THEORY: Distance in the Chaos Wastes is fluid. This is a real place, but not Karag Dum.
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How did we not consider this more?
 
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King Arthur said:
I'm pretty tempted to vote to punch Borek in the face.
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Literally a fucking explanation before he trotted of to the demigod would have been nice, ya know! We got him here, the ungrateful wanker, the least he can do is help answer some questions before leaving.


Just a thought for if we do turn back now: A note should be made recommending that Kragg or Thorek should slap a couple of Runes of Valeria at Karak Vlag (or at the relay waystone on the north side of it) to prevent/block/shut off/burn away incoming dhar from Karag Dum on the assumption that the waystone here will become corrupted in the next 10-1000 years, assuming that the waystone network doesn't have that built in - unless this is 'remember to breath' tier, it's just something that occoured to me.


Two not mad ideas: Getting the other wizzards here and asking them if they think the energies coming off Morghur look to have a dhar component.
Getting them all to take copious notes about all of this before we leave because wtf

Moderate idea: make contact with one of the two tribes (or both) currently attacking the Karak and ask them for more details somehow.

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Hmmm. Idea: Expedition turns around and starts to leave, Mathilde relocates to quite far away and casts an illusion shouting a demand for answers to Borek, and hopefully is not attacked. Hopefully get answers (and give a 'fuck you' or two), then Mathilde catches up to expedition.
 
agumentic said:
To lay it out a bit more properly, my theory is:

1) Those are not actually Morghur and beastmen, those are dwarfs of Karag Dum.
2) They changed their bodies using the knowledge gained from living at the edge of the Wastes.
3) They did so because when the Wastes expanded, usual protection ritual failed, and they needed better bodies to either live here at all or to fight outside of the protection of the stone/runes.
4) "Morghur" is actually an important member of a Royal Clan/Runemaster that is either related to or knows Borek very closely, which is why he used a very intimate gesture.
5) Borek knew that such plan was possible, which is why he was not surprised, but he finds it horrible for obvious reasons, and thus orders us home.

@BoneyM, is there anything wrong with this theory that Mathilde would obviously know, but I missed?
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Morghur's "immortality" would make sense. It's not one being at all, but a category of beings.
 
@BoneyM Can we extent the mortarium I am still confused and some more discussion might help. Also still catching up to discussion so please?
 
Tasoli said:
@BoneyM Can we extent the mortarium I am still confused and some more discussion might help. Also still catching up to discussion so please?
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This quest has a very strong track record of pivoting when new information comes to light, so the vote opening doesn't really calcify the possibilities. You can make your vote whenever you're ready, you don't need to be ready to go when the countdown ends.
 
I suppose it's possible that a defeated Shadowgrave could reform in the warp and make his way down into reality, which could explain how he ended up at Karag-Dum.

And perhaps if captured early on in the process, he could actually be affected in terms of Behavior?

It's a little Meta, but BoneyM has waxed poetic about the redemption and the like, so maybe even a "young" Shadowgrave could be "redeemed"?
 
Okay, I have two theories, and I'm not sure which is more likely...but I'm leaning towards the first:

1) The hopeful theory: Karag Dum spent so long preparing for Chaos, including knowing that Chaos was waxing at least years in advance back before the Great War Against Chaos, so they may have realized that the only way to survive such an event would be a powerful illusion capable of deceiving any Chaos-aligned forces into thinking that Karag Dum had already been conquered. Those who were not deterred by the lack of a target Karag Dum presented would then fall for the second part of the illusion, which was "Morghur", a figure universally revered among Beastmen; by placing any foes into a position from which they would be extremely vulnerable to a sudden and deadly ambush by Karag Dum forces or rune magic (like Algard's Screaming Towers). The illusion works because it is very potent and based on Waystone-backed Master Runes and not by any Wind-based magic. In other words, it's an outside context problem that, by its nature as dwarf runes, counters magic, and thus the magical senses of all other foes/casters. The entire "Cor-Dum" thing makes this more likely, because a great way for an illusion to work reliably is to magically convince the target(s) that it's true the moment they see it. Additionally, there's no way this is the real Morghur, because Morghur would not be satisfied with this kind of patient long-game against a dwarf hold deep in the Chaos Wastes. Additionally, Morghur would never act so affectionately towards a dwarf while also not mutating them at all (and letting them pass/leave without hesitation). The fact that this illusion also works effortlessly on dwarves despite the distance and despite being so blatant lends some credence to this: it works so effortlessly on dwarves, even from a distance, because it's rune-based, not Wind-based.

Furthermore, the fact that this looks like Beastmen turning a mountain into a Wyrdstone makes little sense--illusions like this would not be tolerated by Khorne, and Beastmen are loyal to all four of the Chaos Gods--certainly, Morghur is not any more affiliated with Slaanesh than it is with Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Lastly, there is no way the figure is actually Morghur or a Beastman at all. Beastmen are not known for restraint, especially against a dwarf that is alone and in enemy territory. Thus, if Morghur IS present (which would be unlikely for a lot of reasons, including the fact that Morghur has better things to do than stand around in the Chaos Wastes, not plotting against anyone outside of the Chaos Wastes for so long), him not attacking or challenging what is clearly something built by either the Empire of Karaz Ankor indicates that he isn't truly present where he looks like he is.

2) The "shit is still fucked" theory: Slaanesh is pulling a gambit vaguely along the lines of Karak Vlag, but on Karag Dum. Borek isn't surprised by anything because he's being mindwhammied by Slaanesh hard. Slaanesh is trying to ground Karag Dum away over time, using constant attacks from northern tribes and beastherds to keep the pressure up. The "Cor-Dum" mindfuckery is just like Slaanesh's "stone is an excellent insulator of magic" shtick.
 
Shovern said:
And perhaps if captured early on in the process, he could actually be affected in terms of Behavior?

It's a little Meta, but BoneyM has waxed poetic about the redemption and the like, so maybe even a "young" Shadowgrave could be "redeemed"?
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It's literally made of Chaos and madness second only to actual daemons. You aren't fixing Morghur with behavior therapy only magic
 
@BoneyM can Mathilde tell what killed all those skeletons?
Mostly in the sense of if they were killed by weapons or claws or whatever beastman use or more dwarfish weapons?
 
BoneyM said:
To Mathilde's eyes, they don't look any different to the ones of the Empire. But she's not really in the habit of paying much attention to trees.
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Ah, so Panoramia has not beaten it into her yet.

Don't worry, Mathilde, it'll come with time. Soon you'll be seeing things in plants you didn't even know could exist. It's a botanist's curse, and it is contagious.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's literally made of Chaos and madness second only to actual daemons. You aren't fixing Morghur with behavior therapy only magic
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Not "I'm a good guy now Redeemed" but more "I'm brainwashed" sort of a thing. Plus if he is raw Chaos well, that's not exactly a solid working material, It could be possible for Radical Runemasters to fuck with it.

Like give them God knows how many subjective years, and who knows what they could do with a captive Shadowgrave.

Hell if they caught him when Borek left that might explain his lack of surprise.
 
Wakes up.

Reads.

BY ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE MOUNTAINS WHAT FOULNESS HAS CORRUPTED THESE DAW SO?!
/Undwarf

Alrighty.

Alrighty!

Can I just say the fact that there's Beastmen in DL's Karag Dum is hilarious from my perspective? :^V

Anyway, my initial notes. Borek was not turned into a hulking chaos spawn. Mathilde only saw Morghur and the outline of Beastmen.

The Dryad theory, as some have postulated, would be compelling for a number of reasons. From a meta perspective: the ambient heat is an odd and specifically noted thing, which paired with the forest to me at least implies the Dawi have something to do with it. Involving Dryads while radical isn't chaotic. Do I believe Beastmen being enslaved is a thing ? Hell ya, I literally wrote that in my own quest :^V.

The thing is, we dont have a close up look o Cor Dum, nor would Mathilde want to have a close up look, but frankly it's the only way to see for sure.

Because I should note, Dryads have been noted to shapeshift and sufficiently old Branchwraiths are very powerful spell casters.

Anyway
/redwarf

Drinks heavily.
 
[X] ACTION: Reguardless of what is going on here, we've got a cover story to keep if we want a mostly peaceful drive home. Talk to the Kul about their "Siege" of Col-Dum, and try to figure out what is going on.
 
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Hey I know lets all die to make sure curiosity is sated! That can't go wrong, after all there's always necromancy.

Look it's clear that the Karak Dum Dwarves have successfully bound Morghur in some way, whether it's @Alratan idea or something else. None of the suggested theories fit for why Morghur would be intimate with a dwarf outside of Alratans and that one doesn't explain why Borek would save that Karak Dum can't be forgiven by the ancestors and why he said to say they tried their best.

Some mysteries aren't worth the cost of unraveling them whilst it sucks that Gotrek died for nothing (on the going to dum leg) we found the answer to what happened. Karak Dum has some how bound Morghur and the beastmen are fighting for Dum against the chaos tribes.
 
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