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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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We should make a bunch of Golems in the following turns, hunting down different Golem-Based Runic Combos before choosing one to use with the heart.

There should be no guesswork when it comes to using the heart.
 
I'd rather make something Super Awesome soon than Super Duper Special Awesome as much as ten turns down the line. The dwarves are in the beginning stage of a serious crisis right now after all.
 
BungieONI said:
So is a golem? Making a T5 masterpiece golem is an inspiration for other Runesmiths, and has an advantage over armor. Don't need to put dwarfs in it and risk their lives if we don't want to.

They both have wide benefits from a hold, so framing your suggestion as helping the hold over the golem doesn't hold a lot of weight. Snorri is a runelord, basically anything he does except doing nothing and/or trying to do something insane will help the Hold because it will be creating some Runic masterwork.

Material wise you're right, it would require less, but that sort of material can also just go on a golem to clad it. And a golem requires less fiddling around with runes so it can be made sooner.
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The way I see it, golems seems to need close supervision, so their controllers need to be exposed to danger on the battlefield. The dwarves that would be wearing golem armour, bascially dwaren heroes, would be exposing themselves to danger anyway, as that's what dwarven heroes do on the battlefield. This way they'll be safer doing so. Now, what is a limitation is tht this goes for a greater concentration of force, which is a strategic disadvantage, as you could deploy the golems separately from the heroes, but can't do the same with the golem armour.

And yes, golems will help the hold. I just think they'll help less than golem armour. That's fair enough, because as you say, regular golems will be cheaper.
 
For golem use...depends on how big we make it. If its like 30ft high theres more than enough room to house a dwarf and a workstation inside a chest cavity.
 
for those who want to ride a golem, make a cockpit house on the back like those LOTR trolls except with walls and rune enhanced glass protection? add periscopes to see farther and brass pipe system to relay orders?
 
fictionfan said:
I am guessing that Epiphanies only happen for research that we have made a bit of progress in.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Or he rolled for what got progress and we got lucky.
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I roll on an RER, you crit on one and got an epiphany.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
@soulcake can you tell us/remind about how overwork on designing something to be made works, if it can lead to the construction ahead of time?
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It would trigger the next step logically.
 
Alratan said:
The way I see it, golems seems to need close supervision, so their controllers need to be exposed to danger on the battlefield. The dwarves that would be wearing golem armour, bascially dwaren heroes, would be exposing themselves to danger anyway, as that's what dwarven heroes do on the battlefield. This way they'll be safer doing so. Now, what is a limitation is tht this goes for a greater concentration of force, which is a strategic disadvantage, as you could deploy the golems separately from the heroes, but can't do the same with the golem armour.

And yes, golems will help the hold. I just think they'll help less than golem armour. That's fair enough, because as you say, regular golems will be cheaper.
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There's also a bigger problem with golem-armor that makes me less interested in it that I point out in an edit. As for close supervision, not all the time, take the Gronti by the Smelter. They're just there as part of the defenses.

If Snorri invents it, he's going to be the only guy who can make it for a long time because he'll need to teach the method to make it and the modified runes to someone else. Many someone elses will need to learn it in order for it to become widespread.

Golems don't require that overhead, since most Runesmiths nowadays know how to make them.

And the strategic limits are pretty damn big, when we have to consider that the heart is basically a strategic asset. We want to make things with it that give the most strategic benefit. And I do not think the armor qualifies, for the reasons you point out.

KreenWarrior said:
I'd rather make something Super Awesome soon than Super Duper Special Awesome as much as ten turns down the line. The dwarves are in the beginning stage of a serious crisis right now after all.
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Well, the problem with that in my view is... why bother using the heart for something that's Super Awesome?

We can already make stuff that is Super Awesome right now with what we have on hand. Just with T4 and T3 materials. And like I've discussed before if you are trying to make something super awesome out of the heart, its like shoving a T5 thing into something that's T4 in scale. Kinda a waste.
 
I think people are severely underestimating using the heart for a healing banner. A healing banner can be used to give superhealing both in and outside war. Medicine in this era isn't that advanced; outside of magic healing the options are pretty limited. But a super-healing banner could be used to heal a ton of dwarves. Moreover it can apply that healing to an entire army during battle. A super-golem might be powerful in battle, but a super-healing banner could save thousands of dwarf lives, maybe tens of thousands or more if it really does last forever. I'd rather prevent death for thousands than preserve one golem, because no matter how killy that golem is it will know only war.
 
BungieONI said:
There's also a bigger problem with golem-armor that makes me less interested in it that I point out in an edit. As for close supervision, not all the time, take the Gronti by the Smelter. They're just there as part of the defenses.

If Snorri invents it, he's going to be the only guy who can make it for a long time because he'll need to teach the method to make it and the modified runes to someone else. Many someone elses will need to learn it in order for it to become widespread.

Golems don't require that overhead, since most Runesmiths nowadays know how to make them.

And the strategic limits are pretty damn big, when we have to consider that the heart is basically a strategic asset. We want to make things with it that give the most strategic benefit. And I do not think the armor qualifies, for the reasons you point out.


Well, the problem with that in my view is... why bother using the heart for something that's Super Awesome?

We can already make stuff that is Super Awesome right now with what we have on hand. Just with T4 and T3 materials. And like I've discussed before if you are trying to make something super awesome out of the heart, its like shoving a T5 thing into something that's T4 in scale. Kinda a waste.
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Difference of opinion I guess. I feel like whatever we put the Heart into will end up Tier 5, so we're really talking about grades of Tier 5 already. Not sure if that's been confirmed.
 
soulcake said:
It would trigger the next step logically.
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Huh, so we could have the Banner made in a turn, finishing both parts with two actions, along with a bit of Overflow, which should mean it'd be done in time for the main event.

Actually gave me another idea. We've got plenty of Griffon Brains, and presumably the Great Throng won't also be taking along the King of every Hold. Maybe we could make a Master Rune of Currents-using weapon for whoever is going to be leading the Kraka Drakk contribution, since if we both start and finish making the banner next turn, we'll only have two actions left.
 
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Derpmind said:
I think people are severely underestimating using the heart for a healing banner. A healing banner can be used to give superhealing both in and outside war. Medicine in this era isn't that advanced; outside of magic healing the options are pretty limited. But a super-healing banner could be used to heal a ton of dwarves. Moreover it can apply that healing to an entire army during battle. A super-golem might be powerful in battle, but a super-healing banner could save thousands of dwarf lives, maybe tens of thousands or more if it really does last forever. I'd rather prevent death for thousands than preserve one golem, because no matter how killy that golem is it will know only war.
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A Super Healing banner is one of the other uses I'd like if it ended up being the project we go with.

It also probably requires less leg work to actually make the thing, since that's just: Reliable amounts of Adamant(so Rune Metal part 4, then presumably the infrastructural changes that are needed to make it reliably), Silver Wutroth research being complete for best uses out of it, and hopefully some magic cloth. Possibly from Yorri sites, who knows, we'll probably have to order it or something.
 
We could also "just" use it to power a Demonward Banner, btw (I'm assuming if Stone Troll's Blood will do a Valaya Rune, so will a Greedy Troll's Heart) Given that demons "burn" in the presence of our Demonward combo already, an "energized" Demonward is likely to be... dramatic.
 
It's been 2 hours

[X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
-- [X] Release them: Your bumbling charges are now of an age where they can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, its unlike they'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 2 apprentice actions permanently] Action cost will switch to Snerra
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
-[X] [Simple] The Underway: King Otrek does not mince words, he wants the connection to the Underway ready as soon as possible. The number of monsters that are appearing have not only forced the throng into ever increasing levels of conflict, but slowed overland travel and trade to a near standstill. The north is effectively being cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor inch by inch. He is calling any aid a dwarf can provide in excavating the connection south. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 17 out of (25+ 15[Delayed South]) =40 Progress. 5 progress a turn regardless of input.
—[X] 4 actions, 2 Apprentice action
 
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Derpmind said:
I think people are severely underestimating using the heart for a healing banner. A healing banner can be used to give superhealing both in and outside war. Medicine in this era isn't that advanced; outside of magic healing the options are pretty limited. But a super-healing banner could be used to heal a ton of dwarves. Moreover it can apply that healing to an entire army during battle. A super-golem might be powerful in battle, but a super-healing banner could save thousands of dwarf lives, maybe tens of thousands or more if it really does last forever. I'd rather prevent death for thousands than preserve one golem, because no matter how killy that golem is it will know only war.
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It's also something we can make almost immediately, and would benefit simply from having the Silver Wutroth...hell, let's do it now! We can throw everything into the Underway next turn and will still make it, so long as we throw everything including Apprentice Action/s.




Take the rune of Valaya you were inscribing now. Once complete, the Rune, along with a host of other effects, would enhance things, other Runes included, that encompassed the kind of themes and topics one associated with Valaya herself. Healing brews grew tastier, hearths grew warmer, walls felt sturdier, Runes of warding grew stronger, Runes of Healing more potent the list went on and on.
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Valaya's Blessed Gaze
Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Healing (Greedy One Heart), Rune of Fortitude

I'm not sure if Master Rune of Valaya and two Runes of Healing would be better than the Rune of Fortitude. The Rune of Fortitude seems more Grungni's aspect. Anyone?
 
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LordEdric said:
It's been 2 hours

[X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
-- [X] Release them: Your bumbling charges are now of an age where they can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, its unlike they'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 2 apprentice actions permanently] Action cost will switch to Snerra
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
-[X] [Simple] The Underway: King Otrek does not mince words, he wants the connection to the Underway ready as soon as possible. The number of monsters that are appearing have not only forced the throng into ever increasing levels of conflict, but slowed overland travel and trade to a near standstill. The north is effectively being cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor inch by inch. He is calling any aid a dwarf can provide in excavating the connection south. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 17 out of (25+ 15[Delayed South]) =40 Progress. 5 progress a turn regardless of input.
[X] 4 actions, 1 Apprentice action
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Remember to indent the action count on Underway.

[X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
 
KreenWarrior said:
We could also "just" use it to power a Demonward Banner, btw (I'm assuming if Stone Troll's Blood will do a Valaya Rune, so will a Greedy Troll's Heart) Given that demons "burn" in the presence of our Demonward combo already, an "energized" Demonward is likely to be... dramatic.
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That's good for a banner in general, but not for the Banner of Kraka Drak, which should endure for eternity against any and all manner of foes. Plus, a Heart is not "Blood".
 
[X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 6, 2020 at 6:29 PM, finished with 139 posts and 1 votes.
  • [X] Plan Leaving the nest Underway
    -[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
    -- [X] Release them: Your bumbling charges are now of an age where they can begin the journeyman's trial. It will be perilous, but considering the state of things right now, its unlike they'll leave the immediate area or the hold for a while yet. [Cost: 2 apprentice actions permanently] Action cost will switch to Snerra
    -[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
    -[X] [Simple] The Underway: King Otrek does not mince words, he wants the connection to the Underway ready as soon as possible. The number of monsters that are appearing have not only forced the throng into ever increasing levels of conflict, but slowed overland travel and trade to a near standstill. The north is effectively being cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor inch by inch. He is calling any aid a dwarf can provide in excavating the connection south. [Cost: variable normal and apprentice actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Progress per action, 1 progress per apprentice action. 17 out of (25+ 15[Delayed South]) =40 Progress. 5 progress a turn regardless of input.
    [X] 4 actions, 1 Apprentice action
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note guys, if you release them you'll still have two apprentice actions THIS turn. You'll lose em end of this turn and suffer the action loss next turn.
 
[X] Plan All in Tunnel
-[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 0 turns. Apprentices can now be released into the world
--[X] Hold them
-[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 2 turns.
-[X] [Simple] The Underway
--[X] 4 Actions + 2 apprentice actions
 
Question if we make the Super Golem can we later create golem sized equipment like a giant axe or hammer for it to use? Since I like the idea of upgrading the thing over time.
 
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